English - Page 2

Mobius_1

United Kingdom2763 Posts

April 12 2012 01:52 GMT

#21

On April 11 2012 22:12 AegonC wrote:
Obviously one can only be considered adroit at English if they are utterly proficient in the field of eloquence and extemporaneousness in English.

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kidding! I'd say proficiency is different for each person and their goals.

In other words, read Torte de Lini's blogs?

Fugue

Australia253 Posts

April 12 2012 02:30 GMT

#22

On April 11 2012 21:34 Azera wrote:

Do you mind giving some examples of the expressions that you've mentioned?

Sure.

Not an Australian one, but once a German guy and a Taiwanese girl I was living with decided to go out to a nightclub for some drinking and dancing.
As they were leaving I said "Dance up a storm!" which utterly confused the both of them.
Now, I don't know the etymology of the phrase. As far as I'm aware, this saying based on Native American rain dances.
A rain dance is a dance intended to alter the weather; to bring rain. Presumably no ordinary dance could have such power. Also, presumably such a dance could be used to assist crops to grow. So if it were successful, it would be bringing good fortune.

Therefore, to say "Dance up a storm" is technically like saying "Dance enthusiastically and have a positive outcome."
Or possibly a less clunky version: "Have a great time"

Because it relies on a shared understanding of Native American rain dances (And honestly, I could be completely mistaken about rain dances, a surprising amount of these expressions have little to no basis in fact) it is not unlike an internet meme. If you've never been exposed to that shared meaning, you don't get it.

I suppose an Aussie one might be "I gotta do the bolt", or just "I gotta bolt".
This can actually be parsed correctly based on dictionary definitions, it's just an unlikely use of the word.
When "bolt" is used as a verb, it can refer to a (usually wild) animal that runs away unexpectedly.

Therefore, "I have to bolt" roughly translates to "I have to leave unexpectedly", though it's used much more casually, not only in specific circumstances where leaving was unexpected.
To become even more esoteric, saying "I have to do the bolt" is grammatically nonsensical. That comes from rhyming slang, where it used to be "I have to do the Harold Holt".
Harold Holt was a Prime Minister of Australia who disappeared whilst swimming in the ocean. His body was never found. Ergo, he left unexpectedly.

This is what I mean by expressions being one of the hardest things. Having a wide vocabulary is one thing, but playing with the nuances of language is something every culture has done in their own way, and jokes like that are just not transferable. There are dozens of ways to say the same thing and generally you'll be taught the most direct and universal way, because that makes the most sense.
I was tempted to suggest trying to experiment with multiple ways of saying the same thing as an exercise, but I actually failed linguistics in university so I don't want to pretend I have any idea what's best for you.

Mothra

United States1448 Posts

April 12 2012 03:51 GMT

#23

I think it's better to pick up vocabulary in context rather than study it in isolation. Keep reading classics with challenging vocabulary. Don't worry if you don't understand a word, try and pick up its meaning in the context of the sentence. After awhile you will "know" whether a word is right or wrong to use, even if you can't give it's precise definition.

babylon

8765 Posts

April 12 2012 05:40 GMT

#24

Improving: read a lot, write a lot, listen a lot. Speak too, obviously.

What makes someone good at English? Assuming you are just talking about being "good" at speaking English, imo it is simply a matter of getting across your ideas/points clearly in idiomatic English (which means you do need to know rules of grammar, when it is okay it break/ignore them, what words to use in what social context, etc.) with minimal stuttering/pausing. Eloquence is an added bonus but unnecessary.

DecisionTheory

78 Posts

April 12 2012 06:50 GMT

#25

On April 12 2012 14:40 babylon wrote:
Improving: read a lot, write a lot, listen a lot. Speak too, obviously.

What makes someone good at English? Assuming you are just talking about being "good" at speaking English, imo it is simply a matter of getting across your ideas/points clearly in idiomatic English (which means you do need to know rules of grammar, when it is okay it break/ignore them, what words to use in what social context, etc.) with minimal stuttering/pausing. Eloquence is an added bonus but unnecessary.

Totally agree! I for one have improved my vocabulary, spelling and writing in the last 3-4 months simply by reading a lot more.

What I really to work on now is my sentencing structure, basic grammar, and overall fluidity of speaking. If anyone has any suggestions on these it would be gladly appreciated!

Azera

3800 Posts

April 12 2012 07:39 GMT

#26

Thanks for the replies everybody!

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