Out buying stuff at mall, go to lower level bus stop to catch my bus. Some 20-25 year old white woman sitting there, holding mixed race baby. 20-25 year old black dude arguing with her, leaning over her. She's saying "get away from me, seriously." I consider calling 911 or going over there, but don't. After 20 seconds of girl telling guy to get away, he spits in her face. She gets up, starts swinging at him. I dial 911, grab guy from behind and kind of throw him a bit (but not that hard). Guy turns around.
At this point I'm expecting to get punched or pushed or something. No. Guy reaches his hand into his jacket pocket. I'm scared. I tell him I'm on phone with police, he looks at me, starts walking away. I talk to girl after, she says it's the baby's father, I offer her to talk to police, she says no and gets on bus. I finish up with 911 and go on my way. Not sure how close I came to getting seriously hurt, as I really don't know what was going through his mind or what was in his jacket pocket.
can't tell if real story or psychological experiment... really hard to tell, I would probably be way too scared to do anything, but it wouldn't sit right with me to stand there good on you to do that, props
On April 08 2012 09:50 GenesisX wrote: can't tell if real story or psychological experiment... really hard to tell, I would probably be way too scared to do anything, but it wouldn't sit right with me to stand there good on you to do that, props
Real story. I was so fucking dumb though, I grabbed the guy from behind and kind of pushed him away weakly, WHILE holding my phone. The guy reached into his pocket and I still held the phone, though maybe that stopped him from seeing me as immediate threat. Basically I half-started a fight while holding a phone. Bad call (no pun).
I don't know what I would have done, and I don't think most people would know until they are in the situation. What you did was admirable, and furthermore quite valiant. I think you did the right thing.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response upon turning to face me was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
I'd say you did the right and a pretty brave thing. Glad you and no one else got seriously hurrt. You just can't ever tell what someones going to do in a situation like that.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
He probably realized deep down that you where acting righteous trying to defend a helpless woman against a man + it is the father of the child. He was probably intimidated by you or he would've just knocked you out at the spot instead of acting dangerous towards you and walking away.
On April 08 2012 09:55 aepal wrote: He probably realized deep down that you where acting righteous trying to defend a helpless woman against a man + it is the father of the child. He was probably intimidated by you or he would've just knocked you out at the spot instead of acting dangerous towards you and walking away.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Well I assume he had a knife. He reached for something, and obviously was thinking about using it. That's about as close to almost stabbed as you can get. Once he pulls it and starts using it, I AM stabbed.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Well I assume he had a knife. He reached for something, and obviously was thinking about using it. That's about as close to almost stabbed as you can get. Once he pulls it and starts using it, I AM stabbed.
maybe he was reaching for his phone to call the police because you had just committed a battery. lol.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Well I assume he had a knife. He reached for something, and obviously was thinking about using it. That's about as close to almost stabbed as you can get. Once he pulls it and starts using it, I AM stabbed.
maybe he was reaching for his phone to call the police because you had just committed a battery. lol.
maybe, but it was basically instinctual to me grabbing him. he did it instantly. hyped up on adrenaline from encouter with girl i doubt it, but could be.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Well I assume he had a knife. He reached for something, and obviously was thinking about using it. That's about as close to almost stabbed as you can get. Once he pulls it and starts using it, I AM stabbed.
maybe he was reaching for his phone to call the police because you had just committed a battery. lol.
maybe, but it was basically instinctual to me grabbing him. he did it instantly. hyped up on adrenaline from encouter with girl i doubt it, but could be.
Please just call the police and inform the problematic individual from now on (unless you are confident in your fitness and your decision).
Although the desire to help quickly might be strong, I don't think taking the most altruistic action is worth it in these dangerous but not immediately life-threatening situations.
EDIT: Well, it's all well to say this kind of thing, but yeah different in practice.
Call the Police and don't get involved unless it's to protect the life of the woman or baby.
Coming from someone involved in Law Enforcement, I hate to see anything that starts as an argument between two people turn into a stabbing. Spitting in her face would be enough to constitute an Assault.
I really don't think you should've got involved. Could well have been a couple dispute and the girl was the one spitting and hitting. The guy hasn't even touched her and is possibly the father, you've really just assaulted him imo.
edit: oh the guy spat on her... yeah that would be hard not to get involved. Glad it turned out ok
On April 08 2012 10:21 Scarecrow wrote: I really don't think you should've got involved. Could well have been a couple dispute and the girl was the one spitting and hitting. The guy hasn't even touched her and is possibly the father, you've really just assaulted him imo.
I saw enough to know the guy was the aggressor. Girl was saying for 30s to "get away from me, seriously" and he kept looming over her. He then spat in her face, she got up, still holding baby, and starting throwing. Not sure whether guy threw back as it all happened in less than 2-3 seconds at that point. It was either a one-sided or two-sided fistfighting at that point, not a dispute.
If I could do it again I'd tell him to go away or I'm calling the police (when the girl is telling him to get away), or just call and them I'm calling.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Spitting on someone is about as clear an assault as you can get. Not sure why you think it's "arguable".
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Spitting on someone is about as clear an assault as you can get. Not sure why you think it's "arguable".
Sure it's bad, but I'm not sure if it actually lets you become involved.
Damn, that takes balls to just jump in like that. I probably would've waited or not even got involved unless he starts hitting her, but it's easy to say that when I'm not actually "in the moment" as you were. That's weird, though. He just immediately put his hand in his jacket then walked off? Maybe he thought you jacked his wallet or something when you grabbed him lol
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Spitting on someone is about as clear an assault as you can get. Not sure why you think it's "arguable".
arguable whether it constitutes starting an actual physical altercation.
On April 08 2012 10:54 djcube wrote: Damn, that takes balls to just jump in like that. I probably would've waited or not even got involved unless he starts hitting her, but it's easy to say that when I'm not actually "in the moment" as you were. That's weird, though. He just immediately put his hand in his jacket then walked off? Maybe he thought you jacked his wallet or something when you grabbed him lol
He walked off because I told him immediately "I'm on the phone with the police." Was on the phone with right arm, grabbed him originally with left.
I would've not called the police. I bounce at strip clubs in the ghetto part of Miami, and it's my natural reaction when people start getting loud to intervene. Upon seeing it I would've told him "this isn't the place, you need to calm down and go your separate way," in which he would've told me to fuck off most likely. Per norm in a situation like that I would've explained to him calmly with my hands at my side (but a little in front of me) that I'm not the enemy and he's making a fool of himself. People react to embarassment once they see you aren't a threat very well. If he would've spit in her face, as if I couldn't had reacted to him by that time, I definitely would've made myself a physical presence as to say "Do it again and I'm going to make mincemeat of you." At that point you're really allin, and I would've beat the brakes off of him if he would've touched me. Being used to people carrying weapons, and having been stabbed before, I wouldn't have thought much of him reaching in his pocket, because realistically I would've just reached in my pants and pulled out my gun (and since you're in Australia, also have pulled out a knife in place of the gun). Other than that, would've grabbed the auxiliary bones in his other hand, took control of the side of his body where his hand wasn't in his pocket, and proceeded to go to jail for as previously mentioned, beating the brakes off of him, having previously given him a calm and logical solution in backing away from a hostile situation.
I'm glad that your first reaction was to call the police btw. You can get in real trouble for reacting physically, and also without having been in hostile situations, hurt badly. Also, announcing that you called the police only applies to people who are acting in a civil manner to begin with in my experience. Once someone has spit in a girls face (since you didn't know if he knew her or not), you're at odds that he doesn't know her, and is just batshit crazy and would disregard such a scare tactic, enraging him more. Rage that could, and most probably, would be directed at you for getting involved in his batshit crazy act.
Edit: by "pull out my gun" I mean stepped back 3 steps and pulled it out (see how that looks silly the way I put it).
On April 08 2012 11:35 Game wrote: I would've not called the police. I bounce at strip clubs in the ghetto part of Miami, and it's my natural reaction when people start getting loud to intervene. Upon seeing it I would've told him "this isn't the place, you need to calm down and go your separate way," in which he would've told me to fuck off most likely. Per norm in a situation like that I would've explained to him calmly with my hands at my side (but a little in front of me) that I'm not the enemy and he's making a fool of himself. People react to embarassment once they see you aren't a threat very well. If he would've spit in her face, as if I couldn't had reacted to him by that time, I definitely would've made myself a physical presence as to say "Do it again and I'm going to make mincemeat of you." At that point you're really allin, and I would've beat the brakes off of him if he would've touched me. Being used to people carrying weapons, and having been stabbed before, I wouldn't have thought much of him reaching in his pocket, because realistically I would've just reached in my pants and pulled out my gun (and since you're in Australia, also have pulled out a knife in place of the gun). Other than that, would've grabbed the auxiliary bones in his other hand, took control of the side of his body where his hand wasn't in his pocket, and proceeded to go to jail for as previously mentioned, beating the brakes off of him, having previously given him a calm and logical solution in backing away from a hostile situation.
I'm glad that your first reaction was to call the police btw. You can get in real trouble for reacting physically, and also without having been in hostile situations, hurt badly. Also, announcing that you called the police only applies to people who are acting in a civil manner to begin with in my experience. Once someone has spit in a girls face (since you didn't know if he knew her or not), you're at odds that he doesn't know her, and is just batshit crazy and would disregard such a scare tactic, enraging him more. Rage that could, and most probably, would be directed at you for getting involved in his batshit crazy act.
I felt really dumb after that, when I grabbed him, I was holding my phone to my head. I basically invited him to start swinging at me, and I wasn't at all prepared. Never been in a fight in my life, though I've done some wrestling, but I don't have the instincts at all. I basically went halfway and would have been in a bad spot had he decided not to walk away. I either needed to commit to a fight or keep distance with hands up, but don't stand in close with my hands holding a phone.
Props to you man! I don't know if it was a knife or not, but the point is you stepped in to help someone in need regardless of what could happen to you.
His first reaction was proper that he was scared, furthermore proving that he was scared by running after he had time to comprehend what was occuring. Look at it from his POV, if he had a weapon in his pocket. You're enraged, adrenaline, the survival instinct humans contain, is throughout your entire body. Something is clearly on the line, because you're dealing with someone (as you now know) that is dear to you, and has your child, whether you are on good relations with her or not. The next thing you know, a guy grabs you and shoves you, and by the time you turn around, he has one hand in the air with a black object that could be perceived as something to throw and definitely a weapon. Think about how you would throw a knife. Your hand is over your shoulder, and near your head. Your other hand isn't even important. There are a few ways to think about that. If you had dropped your hand, he would then think that you were secure enough to attack him (no matter what type of personality or complex he has), and that you definitely had a weapon. If your hand was still mid-air and moving, then it's just another threat he has to identify as soon as he grasps what your elevated hand is doing. Clearly the guy was scared by you, or your threat of the police, or the combination in two, possibly conjunct with the knowledge that the situation had gotten out of control and he needed to leave.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
uh no, spitting is not arguable, spitting in someones face is assault
Damn man you have more courage than I do but then again I'm a twig lol, glad to hear you're alright I mean he could of had a gun for all you know. Props to you though for standing up for that lady.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Spitting on someone is about as clear an assault as you can get. Not sure why you think it's "arguable".
arguable whether it constitutes starting an actual physical altercation.
People go to jail for assault by spitting all the time. Even in Canada.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
ic. i was expecting a story about you almost getting stabbed, but okay.
i wouldnt have gotten involved other than to call the police and notified the guy i was calling the police. especially since the female apparently started the actual physical altercation (spitting is arguable) and you could have been seen as contributing to her assaulting him.
Spitting on someone is about as clear an assault as you can get. Not sure why you think it's "arguable".
arguable whether it constitutes starting an actual physical altercation.
People go to jail for assault by spitting all the time. Even in Canada.
Just curious, why stabbed, instead of shot, beaten, or raped? Like you said, you have no idea what he was reaching for. All you know is that he's black and therefore you concluded that it probably was a lethal weapon.
On April 08 2012 13:22 Drizzt3 wrote: Just curious, why stabbed, instead of shot, beaten, or raped? Like you said, you have no idea what he was reaching for. All you know is that he's black and therefore you concluded that it probably was a lethal weapon.
It's in Canada, so I didn't assume a gun. That leaves a knife as a weapon. Beaten/raped doesn't reach into the jacket.
I'm guessing he had a weapon as he instinctively put his hand in his jacket pocket while looking at me, immediately after I pulled/threw him. Seems very weird instinctive response unless you are carrying something. Still it could have been nothing. And him being black had nothing to do with my guess.
On April 08 2012 09:50 dAPhREAk wrote: how do you know he had a knife?
I don't. But he was pissed/scared (in his eyes) and his immediate response upon turning to face me was to reach into his jacket pocket. Doesn't really make sense unless he's got something in there.
He was probably reaching for his breath spray because he was about to make some heavy moves on you.
I had a similar thing happen a while ago. This dude was getting a bit rowdy with a friend of mine who's a lady friend (friend zoned to be exact) at a pool hall/bar. He started calling her names after she blew him off and she either kneed or shoved him lightly because of it, to which he shoved her fairly hard. I reacted completely impulsively and got right in this guys face and told him to cut that shit out. Thing is, like the OP I've never been in a fight before, and while I'm 5'11 this dude had several inches on me and looked like a fucking convict. He looked me right in the face and said "Yeah, you're real fucking intimidating" (incase it's not obvious he said it sarcastically), then just walked out. It's a weird feeling thinking that your about to have the shit beat out of you, and I spent the rest of the night staring at the door of the hall to see if he came back in. I thought he would be waiting outside when I left as well.
After thinking about it for a long time I've arrived at a number of conclusions.
I noticed earlier that night that the same dude had some drugs on him (I think it was weed but I don't know exactly since he had some paraphernalia I'd never seen before). He also wouldn't have a drink with the girl until she showed him i.d., which means that he was a cautious person by nature, and getting in a fight in a bar with drugs on board was not worth it for him. I didn't intimidate him, he chose to leave because he thought better of the legal consequences.
The other conclusion is that When I need to be, I can be a fucking man. I've had people call me sexist before because of this, but the thought of a man harming a woman fucking disgusts me and I proved to myself that I was prepared to have the shit kicked out of me for standing up for what I believe in.
I don't know the feelings you went through and exactly how the situation played out, but if nothing else take from your experience the only good thing I got out of mine. I think it will get easier the longer you contemplate what happened. I was pretty shaken up over it for a few days and really just wanted to put it behind me.
What you did was the right and safest thing to do. I've worked as a security guard and one the easiest ways we were trained to diffuse a potentially dangerous situation was to call the police first and warn the dude that you called the police. I mean if you don't have the experience diffusing verbal spats things can completely spiral out of control quickly.
And being in a street fight is different than a "normal" fight per se. I've been doing muay thai for three years now and here's what I think of martial arts: You become overprepared in a 1 on 1 highschool type fight (fight fight fight!) but you will still be fucked in an actual street fight. Here's why, people who are most likely to pick fights have some grounds for doing so. They've probably fought before and believe they can actually win the fight, and also they won't attack you unless they believe they have some sort of advantage-- This could be a concealed weapon, friends around the corner, a knife....
Also, people will try to catch you by surprise. They will stab you in the back with a smile on their face as they say. I once bounced in a club and we were required to wear stab vests (for good reason). One of my buddies got stabbed that night, some drunkard broke a bottle and stabbed him in the stomach. But luckily he was wearing a vest. He didn't even have time to react and he held him long enough until the rest of us tackled the guy.
A realistic knife attack will look like this:
The guy gets stabbed multiple times per second. It's insanely difficult to stop this kind of assault.
On April 08 2012 13:49 rad301 wrote: I had a similar thing happen a while ago. This dude was getting a bit rowdy with a friend of mine who's a lady friend (friend zoned to be exact) at a pool hall/bar. He started calling her names after she blew him off and she either kneed or shoved him lightly because of it, to which he shoved her fairly hard. I reacted completely impulsively and got right in this guys face and told him to cut that shit out. Thing is, like the OP I've never been in a fight before, and while I'm 5'11 this dude had several inches on me and looked like a fucking convict. He looked me right in the face and said "Yeah, you're real fucking intimidating" (incase it's not obvious he said it sarcastically), then just walked out. It's a weird feeling thinking that your about to have the shit beat out of you, and I spent the rest of the night staring at the door of the hall to see if he came back in. I thought he would be waiting outside when I left as well.
After thinking about it for a long time I've arrived at a number of conclusions.
I noticed earlier that night that the same dude had some drugs on him (I think it was weed but I don't know exactly since he had some paraphernalia I'd never seen before). He also wouldn't have a drink with the girl until she showed him i.d., which means that he was a cautious person by nature, and getting in a fight in a bar with drugs on board was not worth it for him. I didn't intimidate him, he chose to leave because he thought better of the legal consequences.
The other conclusion is that When I need to be, I can be a fucking man. I've had people call me sexist before because of this, but the thought of a man harming a woman fucking disgusts me and I proved to myself that I was prepared to have the shit kicked out of me for standing up for what I believe in.
I don't know the feelings you went through and exactly how the situation played out, but if nothing else take from your experience the only good thing I got out of mine. I think it will get easier the longer you contemplate what happened. I was pretty shaken up over it for a few days and really just wanted to put it behind me.
I think you might want to consider that there is no real benefit to the psyche and confidence of someone who feels the need to fight to beat up someone they know they could on their worst day. I'm 6'7 350 and extremely large outside of being fat, and I've walked away from a lot of fights simply because not only I, but everyone in the surrounding area, anyone who would ever hear about it, or they knew that I'd have put them in the hospital. Despite the possibility of a warrant, or his current controlled possessions, you have to also think that in the court of law people of a certain stature are almost all of the time charged with deadly weapons for their hands. Sorry OP for getting off topic, but the post above me should easily settle your mind on that.
Dude, no offence but what you did was stupid. Just call the god damn 911 and don't interfere, you never know what you might got yourself into. And i'm not saying you should be a coward, i'm saying your action may affect your family and friends as well, your parents didn't raise so you can be stabbed in the face for interfering with a stranger's business. You help when you can help.
I wouldn't put raped out of the question though, maybe he was reaching for 'protection'.
On a more serious note, I am glad you at least did something. Maybe pushing him weakly wasn't such a good idea, but at least saying something and informing him you had called the police. It just brings to mind those videos of muggings in crowded areas in large cities and no one does anything....
If I act in such a situation I will make sure to get as much attention from the public as possible, also already doing something agressive yourself wasnt very wise! Try to deescalate first. Also approaching this, its you or him. I would go full retard if need be.
EPT
