The Pretender Park Ji Soo is the most recently successful broodwar progamer to switch to Star2. Although he abused horrifically imbalanced maps on his road to MSL victory, fOrGG still boasted an over 50% winrate in standard leagues in 2010 before his abrupt retirement, in addition to making ro36 bacchus osl and ro8 bigfile MSL. Although he was no longer within the elite terrans, he was still a solid workhorse in PL and made respectable runs in the individual leagues. The second most successful broodwar player yet in MVP only has a single lucky MSL ro8 to his name plus his reputation as a Woongjin terran in proleague (ie, a complete joke).
However, a data point of a single player is pretty lame. So let's look at broodwar performance as a predictor of success in the GSL. So far there have been 11 GSL finals, including Super Tournament and the World Championship. I also make the assumption that war3 players, no matter their skill, are inferior to all BW players, but the lack of success of war3 players means it doesn't make a huge difference.
Of these 11 finals, there are four upsets. Polt over 1988 for the super tournament, cool over rainbow for GSL1, Iron > July for GSL March, and 1988 over MVP for GSL October. Cool beating Rainbow is perhaps the least relevant, since both players dropped out of broodwar programing some 3 years ago. There are certainly extenuating circumstances for Iron's victory over July or 1988 beating MVP in California, but the only true failure of the broodwar pro system is Polt's super tournament victory, a war3 amateur. Nevertheless, if you were to bet purely on broodwar performance, 7/11 translates to a 64% correct prediction.
I didn't want to bother to look at the ro16 as well, but it seems that broodwar performance is a fairly decent indicator of how well you will perform in GSL. As the second best broodwar player to switch, MVP's 3 Code S finals and 2 GSL golds also seem to support this claim. Putting aside statistics that can easily be misleading, fOrGG's Code A match against Sage was incredibly dominating. Sage is supposed to be one of the most promising protosses coming out of Code A alongside twilight and tasssadar, but fOrGG made him look clueless. As long as fOrGG can survive his next Code A match against Polt, only July or Genius stands in his way to code S, neither of whom should present any problems for fOrGG.
as an interesting side note, when i was looking at the bw records of the lesser known bw b-teamers, i found that the code S terrans had a much higher rate of being successful in dream league or offline prelims than Code S/A protoss or zergs. in short, code s is infested by terrans because most of them were better at broodwar than their protosss or zerg counterparts, rather than T being OP.
Found the Terran BW record intriguing... I personally believe that no imbalance really exists in SC2, but that maps, and player strategy/innovation for the most part have generally favored Terran. That would be supported by evidence if the Terrans truly were the better BW players simply because they were more talented.
I am confident that fOrGG will quickly become one of the best, if not the best SC2 players in the world. He was much stronger than MVP in BW and I think SC2 fits his play style nicely.
On November 28 2011 11:55 conTAgi0n wrote: I am confident that fOrGG will quickly become one of the best, if not the best SC2 players in the world. He was much stronger than MVP in BW and I think SC2 fits his play style nicely.
King of timings! I love fOrGG ^^ Hopefully he won't become a sniper in sc2 and just dominates everybody
Seems like I'm the only one that sees him as irOn with more fans. Maybe he wins on the same level as the three korean kings but I still don't see him rising above their level of success.
Saying he abused horribly imbalanced maps to take his MSL victory is a massive understatement. Yes. It was that bad. That entire MSL was like a joke.
ForGG was good when he was at his peak, but I think his reliance on early timings was a fundamental problem with his playstyle. I imagine it'd work out better in SC2, though.
He was a successful player, but in terms of being a solid all around player? I don't think he was that much better than MVP if at all.
Also, even though he's been playing since January, he JUST joined a team like a few months ago. Ladder practice will only take you so far, and in fact, no one actually uses ladder as a serious practice method in Korea. I'd give it a few months before he's able to get deep in GSL. He has a really tough bracket in code A as well. Just watch his games so far, they're available, and you'll realize that he's good, but he's not amazing top 5 terran material just yet.
On November 28 2011 11:20 rauk wrote:as an interesting side note, when i was looking at the bw records of the lesser known bw b-teamers, i found that the code S terrans had a much higher rate of being successful in dream league or offline prelims than Code S/A protoss or zergs. in short, code s is infested by terrans because most of them were better at broodwar than their protosss or zerg counterparts, rather than T being OP.
Thank you so much for this paragraph. It is very very frustrating when people instantly come to the conclusion of racial imbalance and completely disregard other plausible factors.
I think he'll do well, but I don't know how long he'll be able to keep it up. I really want Forgg to dominate with his signature style at least for a while, because it's something that will greatly spice up the scene. However, I still feel that he's too inconsistent. He might end up being a Fruitdealer or July. Either way, KT fighting! :D
My most interesting takeaway from this post is actually that MKP's BW name is Clare.
But yeah, fOrGG definitely has the pure skill to just dominate, BW is pretty intense and demanding, and he can (and he did, vs Tassadar) just outplay everyone else.
I acutally think that he'll win too, but mostly because of his timings. He had such amazing timing pushed in bw, and he has shown that he has that too in sc2. And I think there's still alot of timing attacks to be figured out for Terran in sc2 yet. So I kinda hope that he wins tbh. It will prove to everybody that bw players are just much more talented that anybody else.
Here's the rub: BW is practice habits, BW is you got the mental strength to succeed and enough natural talent to not hold you down. It was rougher, the game was developed, teamhouses were sweatshops, etc.
If you survived and did well, chances are you can apply the same mettle you brought to BW straight into SC2. I'm an SC2 nerd delving back into BW history looking at VODS and reading all those TL and LP articles, so the full career of fOrGG isn't super known to me. But if he's one of those BW monsters, I'm expecting to see similar excellence in SC2.
And yeah, more Terrans in Code S than I would care to think about are there because their opponents are less skilled, not because of the race they play. Wouldn't take much (1-2 good Code A influxes into Up/Down) to raise the skill floor for Code S enough to radically change the demographics.
Fun fact: Kim Seung Cheol (MvP_sC) was a BW protoss player with name sC[KaL] and Sage was also a BW protoss with name FreeDSL (I don't know shit about their BW careers though, I think both were amateurs).
I think he will win eventually, but not the next season he's able to- you don't include how much time they spent playing/learning SC2 before winning, and plenty of more successful BW progamers like July haven't won at all. Taking all the BW players who've won is one thing, taking all the BW players and seeing how they stack up is another.
It will take a few seasons until he is able to win his fisrt code s, just like MVP, and before that happens, bw players of higher caliber will switch over, rendering your prediction useless .
On November 29 2011 08:49 Poopi wrote: Polt and Clare, king of upsets =D, microers brothers. Interesting, I think that fOrGG will not beat Polt this time, but win a GSL soon after
ForGG knows his timings. That's more important than micro, especially in TvT. Besides, ForGG's control is nothing to be looked down on.
On November 28 2011 15:34 ptrpb wrote: Can't wait for Polt to dismantle him and put his skill into actual perspective
On November 29 2011 08:49 Poopi wrote: Polt and Clare, king of upsets =D, microers brothers. Interesting, I think that fOrGG will not beat Polt this time, but win a GSL soon after
On November 29 2011 08:49 Poopi wrote: Polt and Clare, king of upsets =D, microers brothers. Interesting, I think that fOrGG will not beat Polt this time, but win a GSL soon after
ForGG knows his timings. That's more important than micro, especially in TvT. Besides, ForGG's control is nothing to be looked down on.
On November 29 2011 08:49 Poopi wrote: Polt and Clare, king of upsets =D, microers brothers. Interesting, I think that fOrGG will not beat Polt this time, but win a GSL soon after
No I'm pretty sure he's gonna win Code A.
If he can win Code A, I can divide by zero.
But if there was a Code A champion, he would be it.
On November 28 2011 16:54 NeverGG wrote: *Wanders in to comment that she still finds him weirdly attractive.*
You were meant for each other.
The creepy thing is he has/had a necklace with 'Never' on it. I know it's unrelated to me, but it still made me laugh when I spotted it during a photo shoot with him.
On November 28 2011 16:54 NeverGG wrote: *Wanders in to comment that she still finds him weirdly attractive.*
You were meant for each other.
The creepy thing is he has/had a necklace with 'Never' on it. I know it's unrelated to me, but it still made me laugh when I spotted it during a photo shoot with him.
Never is his other ID no? Still, I'm sure he chose it as a shoutout to you. : )
On November 28 2011 16:54 NeverGG wrote: *Wanders in to comment that she still finds him weirdly attractive.*
You were meant for each other.
The creepy thing is he has/had a necklace with 'Never' on it. I know it's unrelated to me, but it still made me laugh when I spotted it during a photo shoot with him.
Never is his other ID no? Still, I'm sure he chose it as a shoutout to you. : )
Yeah, I knew it was because of his alternate ID, but still. The timing was especially amusing because I'd just stripped him off his jacket in a dark alleyway outside of the OGN studio >.>
On November 28 2011 16:54 NeverGG wrote: *Wanders in to comment that she still finds him weirdly attractive.*
You were meant for each other.
The creepy thing is he has/had a necklace with 'Never' on it. I know it's unrelated to me, but it still made me laugh when I spotted it during a photo shoot with him.
Never is his other ID no? Still, I'm sure he chose it as a shoutout to you. : )
Yeah, I knew it was because of his alternate ID, but still. The timing was especially amusing because I'd just stripped him off his jacket in a dark alleyway outside of the OGN studio >.>
o.O
You are leaving an awful lot open to TL's collective imagination. This could turn out to be fun.
On November 28 2011 16:54 NeverGG wrote: *Wanders in to comment that she still finds him weirdly attractive.*
You were meant for each other.
The creepy thing is he has/had a necklace with 'Never' on it. I know it's unrelated to me, but it still made me laugh when I spotted it during a photo shoot with him.
Never is his other ID no? Still, I'm sure he chose it as a shoutout to you. : )
Yeah, I knew it was because of his alternate ID, but still. The timing was especially amusing because I'd just stripped him off his jacket in a dark alleyway outside of the OGN studio >.>
o.O
You are leaving an awful lot open to TL's collective imagination. This could turn out to be fun.
I'm hoping for another erotic fanfic about ForGG and I. ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
On December 02 2011 12:58 Bibbit wrote: Once upon a time NeverGG and fOrGG met in a dark alleyway outside of the OGN studio. fOrGG GG'd prematurely and it made NeverGG sad.
Fin (get it ?!?)
Now we just need a dramatic reading by DoctorHelvetica.
He was one of my favourite Terrans before his retirement. I still don't get his retirement at all (he made an MSL Ro8 and thus was seeded into the Ro32 when he retired), but now that he's playing pro-RTS again I will root for him. ForGG fighting!
I also make the assumption that war3 players, no matter their skill, are inferior to all BW players, but the lack of success of war3 players means it doesn't make a huge difference.
On December 02 2011 12:58 Bibbit wrote: Once upon a time NeverGG and fOrGG met in a dark alleyway outside of the OGN studio. fOrGG GG'd prematurely and it made NeverGG sad.
On December 02 2011 12:58 Bibbit wrote: Once upon a time NeverGG and fOrGG met in a dark alleyway outside of the OGN studio. fOrGG GG'd prematurely and it made NeverGG sad.
On December 05 2011 14:09 Neurosis wrote: All I can say is his games vs Polt were godlike. I really really really wish he would release a ladder replay pack.
nah he won't do that probably later during 2 years of his time when he is successful he will release his replay pack , if he suddenly just release it , people would just study his build order and play style and counter him . Forgg for terran emperor of sc2
I'm an SC2 nub, and I really don't care for the scene all that much, but can someone tell me when ForGG is playing. I want to see him time attack his way into GSL championships. Where does he stand now? Did he win code A yet? When does he play?
Perhaps some of you can direct me to the proper outlets in that jungle known as the SC2 forums.....
I still like ForGG a lot since he was a Hwaseung Oz player.
On December 05 2011 21:38 rainei wrote: I'm an SC2 nub, and I really don't care for the scene all that much, but can someone tell me when ForGG is playing. I want to see him time attack his way into GSL championships. Where does he stand now? Did he win code A yet? When does he play?
Perhaps some of you can direct me to the proper outlets in that jungle known as the SC2 forums.....
I still like ForGG a lot since he was a Hwaseung Oz player.
he just secured a code S spot by 2-0'ing a super hyped new protoss, 2-0 gsl super champion, 2-0 gsl march runner up
On December 05 2011 21:38 rainei wrote: I'm an SC2 nub, and I really don't care for the scene all that much, but can someone tell me when ForGG is playing. I want to see him time attack his way into GSL championships. Where does he stand now? Did he win code A yet? When does he play?
Perhaps some of you can direct me to the proper outlets in that jungle known as the SC2 forums.....
I still like ForGG a lot since he was a Hwaseung Oz player.
he just secured a code S spot by 2-0'ing a super hyped new protoss, 2-0 gsl super champion, 2-0 gsl march runner up
the fact his marines never die... lol This thread might not die until the end of the next GSL Season the way fOrGG is playing. And I really really hope it doesnt die
On December 05 2011 21:38 rainei wrote: I'm an SC2 nub, and I really don't care for the scene all that much, but can someone tell me when ForGG is playing. I want to see him time attack his way into GSL championships. Where does he stand now? Did he win code A yet? When does he play?
Perhaps some of you can direct me to the proper outlets in that jungle known as the SC2 forums.....
I still like ForGG a lot since he was a Hwaseung Oz player.
he just secured a code S spot by 2-0'ing a super hyped new protoss, 2-0 gsl super champion, 2-0 gsl march runner up
On December 05 2011 21:38 rainei wrote: I'm an SC2 nub, and I really don't care for the scene all that much, but can someone tell me when ForGG is playing. I want to see him time attack his way into GSL championships. Where does he stand now? Did he win code A yet? When does he play?
Perhaps some of you can direct me to the proper outlets in that jungle known as the SC2 forums.....
I still like ForGG a lot since he was a Hwaseung Oz player.
he just secured a code S spot by 2-0'ing a super hyped new protoss, 2-0 gsl super champion, 2-0 gsl march runner up
On December 05 2011 21:38 rainei wrote: I'm an SC2 nub, and I really don't care for the scene all that much, but can someone tell me when ForGG is playing. I want to see him time attack his way into GSL championships. Where does he stand now? Did he win code A yet? When does he play?
Perhaps some of you can direct me to the proper outlets in that jungle known as the SC2 forums.....
I still like ForGG a lot since he was a Hwaseung Oz player.
he just secured a code S spot by 2-0'ing a super hyped new protoss, 2-0 gsl super champion, 2-0 gsl march runner up
He 2-0'd three people that played like shit.
He made them look like shit. Get over it
+1 Support! I believe that is the case too.
Maybe his multi tasking and micro is good, and his opponent, maybe, forced to multi-task as well, and fail to do so.
And made them play like shit! Oh yea!!!!~!! <3 <3 <3
Or maybe ForGG is reowned S class player from Bw, Flash #2, ahaha. ppl will lose morale before fight.
Hahahaha I can't wait to see him falter and leave all the overhypers hanging. He might blossom into one of the best in the scene, but it's still too early. You'll see.
On January 06 2012 20:27 Telcontar wrote: Hahahaha I can't wait to see him falter and leave all the overhypers hanging. He might blossom into one of the best in the scene, but it's still too early. You'll see.
On January 11 2012 01:00 Newbistic wrote: It's only his first season. MVP also looked very strong in his debut but took a few seasons before he won GSL. ForGG winning GSL is a matter of time.
Is this a comment on your own sig, or do you genuinely believe that ForGG winning Code S is certain to happen? I mean, he is good, but there is no one (not even MMA and MVP, and they are both better than ForGG) that I would guarantee to win a GSL this year, the competition is far far too tight to do that.
On January 06 2012 20:27 Telcontar wrote: Hahahaha I can't wait to see him falter and leave all the overhypers hanging. He might blossom into one of the best in the scene, but it's still too early. You'll see.
I hate to say I told you so.
Actually, I love saying it. XD
hahahaha, everyone says that they don't like saying 'I told you so' but secretly, everyone person without question loves to do it.
On January 06 2012 20:27 Telcontar wrote: Hahahaha I can't wait to see him falter and leave all the overhypers hanging. He might blossom into one of the best in the scene, but it's still too early. You'll see.
On January 11 2012 01:00 Newbistic wrote: It's only his first season. MVP also looked very strong in his debut but took a few seasons before he won GSL. ForGG winning GSL is a matter of time.
Is this a comment on your own sig, or do you genuinely believe that ForGG winning Code S is certain to happen? I mean, he is good, but there is no one (not even MMA and MVP, and they are both better than ForGG) that I would guarantee to win a GSL this year, the competition is far far too tight to do that.
On January 06 2012 20:27 Telcontar wrote: Hahahaha I can't wait to see him falter and leave all the overhypers hanging. He might blossom into one of the best in the scene, but it's still too early. You'll see.
I hate to say I told you so.
Actually, I love saying it. XD
hahahaha, everyone says that they don't like saying 'I told you so' but secretly, everyone person without question loves to do it.
Well Fionn believes in Supernova, so he's screwed
We'll see as always. He was pretty sick today, despite losing. It'll be a learning experience at least, and I suspect he'll be ready for his Code A games and do quite well.
EPT
Cool[fOu] > 
IntoTheRainBOw
Rain
