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To preface this story of my Friday night I will say this: This is one of the few moments in my life that I have actually been afraid for someone else's sake. Read on:
[TLDR AT THE END - I'D APPRECIATE IF YOU READ IT ALL THOUGH]
+ Show Spoiler +
I am a simple guy. I go to a good university for comp sci, I have a lot of work, and I like to enjoy my Fridays and Saturdays as zero-work days because that's all I do Sunday - Thursday. I normally go out with my friend to other peoples' apartments and have a good time. Except Friday.
I have known this friend since I was about 5. We went to kindergarten together, grade school, middle school, high school, and now university. After so long you'd think you have a good handle on a person. This friend likes to drink a lot and he does not treat it like a marathon as one should, but rather a sprint. He has a girlfriend that is quite a tiny person and was having a good time like the rest of us. She rarely gets to go out because she has so much to do all the time, but surpassed her limit despite my friend's warnings; she could barely stand up.
Being the drunk buffoon he was, he says she needs to go home. There was no way the girl was walking home like this. We tried to argue that she was in no shape to go anywhere and that if a cop was going down the street and saw her like that there was no way he was going to NOT stop. But, he would have none of this TL. So, being the good friend that I am, I walk a good 40yd in front of them to spot and make sure I tell them to ditch quick if the worst happens. We get to a Uni-Mart and my friend has the bright idea of going inside to use the bathroom. This is where things went terribly wrong.
His girlfriend just wanted to go back. She was crying, a real mess, and his smart remarks didn't help: "I fucking told you to stop, why don't you just fucking listen to me", etc. She pushed him away and went inside the Uni-Mart, and he went off. "Did you see this fucking bitch hit me? Don't you EVER fucking try to hit me ever again!" and he runs in after her.
I'm like, what the fuck just happened. I run in after him and he's going towards his GF who is holding onto the wall like it's her anchor to the god damn earth and I grab him before he gets close. "Fucking let me go, let me go I'll show her". TL, I have known this guy for 15 years and I have never ever seen this side of him. I turned him around after telling him all the attention he was drawing to us and that it wasn't worth it to do something stupid. The 20 or so people inside are staring at us. I get him out of the store and he walks off.
I see his girlfriend stumble out of the other side of the uni-mart and I run up to her. She's bawling her eyes out and clings onto me. I basically carried her halfway back to her place before running into another friend and his GF, who were really concerned. So me and the guy get her back to her place safely so her room-mate can take care of her. What really sucks, TL, is that the whole time she kept saying things like "He's going to break up with me, I know it" and being really down on herself even though she didn't do anything wrong except unintentionally pass her limit. I honestly thought my friend was going to hit her in the uni-mart.
Anyways, when she got back and stumbled onto her bed, she looked at me in tears while I was telling her "you just need to go to sleep, don't think about anything until you have a clear head tomorrow" etc and she says "you don't understand, this happens all the time". I didn't know whether she was just upset and said that, so I asked the friend who helped me get her back if it was; it was.
I told her roommate what happened and I left, she assured me she would watch after her. On the way out I ran into her boyfriend. Not only does this look bad but he is just as irate. He insists on seeing her and pounds on the door before falling into a slump. I sat next to him and asked him if he remembered what happened - Nope. I tried to convince him to go home but he wouldn't. He said he was going to sit there all night if he had to. I told him if there's one thing I ever tell you, to not fuck this up. Her roommate opened the door and said she wanted to see him ( the GF). He goes in, and a few seconds later I hear his voiced raised (through the closed door). I leave and go back to my place.
TL, what the fuck? What do you guys think about this? I wish I could talk to you guys in person and convey how upset I am that someone I have known for 15 years to be a good person almost hit his girlfriend. He would have if I hadn't gotten him and turned him around. No one deserves that. If it were anyone else's girlfriend I would have said why are you with that asshole, I can treat you better. As someone objective to their relationship (I like them both. They're good together), it was just really fucked up.
TLDR:
+ Show Spoiler +Friend and girlfriend got shit-faced. Girl can hardly walk, friend insists on getting her home instead of letting her sober up. Get to a uni-mart to use a bathroom, GF shoves him, he almost hits her (I restrained him and got him out). I start to walk her home, run into people I know, and get her back. She says this happens all the time, I don't believe her, I ask the people I ran into if it's true, they say yes. Friend shows up at her place and goes in to see her, starts yelling. I leave.
I'm just really disturbed TL, I don't know what to think about the whole thing. I thought I knew my friend.
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Some pretty weird shit tends to go down when people are in bad moods and get shit faced. Sounds like they have a rocky relationship on top of that. Your friend sounds like he was being a d-bag but I but there's more to the story (not saying he's in the right or anything though).
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the best thing to do is talk with him, discuss that you think he has an anger management problem. If that doesn't work there's not much you can do, gotta start picking friends on selective now.
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As you grow older, you'll probably realize the length of time you are friends with someone has very little effect on how good of friends you actually are.
You know what is right in this situation. Do what is right. Don't let someone suffer unnecessary violence, especially at the hands of someone who is supposed to be your friend and that you have some power to help.
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my opinion:
Be honest with him about how you feel regarding his behavior. If he can't respect that, then fuck him. Be confident about yourself here.
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I talked to him today and he did show humility in what happened after I told him everything (she actually called me to see what happened because she didn't remember. She said she was going over there soon and I said I want to talk to him before she goes there). I think they were both just in mutually antagonizing moods. He was warning her to stop earlier but she kept drinking, he was shitfaced and you know how some drunk people are with annoyance / temperament.
I don't know anything about their relationship really. I know they have been together for a year and a half. I talked to her and it seems like things are ok except when alcohol is involved. I told him that he should really pace himself or not even drink at all, you don't have to drink to have fun. I was just shocked that someone I thought I knew almost hit someone (a girl in a public place, like really?). Completely unacceptable in my book.
I just don't know how much of this is my business and how far I can voice my opinion. I'm still shaken up about it.
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On October 03 2010 14:05 Ack1027 wrote:
As you grow older, you'll probably realize the length of time you are friends with someone has very little effect on how good of friends you actually are.
You know what is right in this situation. Do what is right. Don't let someone suffer unnecessary violence, especially at the hands of someone who is supposed to be your friend and that you have some power to help.
Thanks for this. The first part makes a lot of sense, and I didn't think of it that way. If I witness something like this again, I will do something. Likely talk to her to try to get her out because no one deserves that. Also, I have no interest in her, I am really just genuinely concerned (I add this because that last sentence sounds like it can be taken out of context).
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I feel that you should certainly voice your concern if you feel it is the right thing to do, which I think you already did. And your instincts to step between potential violence is a good trait to have; you are a man of action! But depending on how close you really are to the two of them, you really need to let them deal with their issues by themselves and just make sure that they know you are available to talk with either one of them if need be. I believe that getting too much into other peoples' business is none of your business unless someone's safety is threatened. It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders so just trust yourself and things will work out eventually.
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If he can hit her once he will do it again. She needs to walk away from him now. She does not want to spend even a moment of her life as somebody's punching bag. No one deserves that. Not ever. Not for any reason. Tell her to break up with him now and get counseling. She definitely needs to talk to a professional if this has happened before and she stayed with him.
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On October 03 2010 14:38 AirbladeOrange wrote:
I feel that you should certainly voice your concern if you feel it is the right thing to do, which I think you already did. And your instincts to step between potential violence is a good trait to have; you are a man of action! But depending on how close you really are to the two of them, you really need to let them deal with their issues by themselves and just make sure that they know you are available to talk with either one of them if need be. I believe that getting too much into other peoples' business is none of your business unless someone's safety is threatened. It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders so just trust yourself and things will work out eventually.
Thanks for your perspective. I really just want to let them deal with their issues like you said; I just don't want her to get hurt. I also don't want to complicate things unnecessarily.
On October 03 2010 14:54 mangomango wrote:
If he can hit her once he will do it again. She needs to walk away from him now. She does not want to spend even a moment of her life as somebody's punching bag. No one deserves that. Not ever. Not for any reason. Tell her to break up with him now and get counseling. She definitely needs to talk to a professional if this has happened before and she stayed with him.
This is one thing that is on my mind. I guess I could say he is capable, but he did not actually touch her (because I got him). I don't know if he would have actually done it had he gotten closer and had the chance, nor do I want to find out. The moment something does happen I will try to help her however I can, but until something actually does happen I don't want to do anything drastic. [Edit: Also I don't know exactly what they meant by 'it happened before'. That could mean them fighting because of intoxication, etc, not necessarily violent behavior. Guess I should have gotten that cleared up for the both of us.]
I appreciate all of the input and your time taken to read what I had to say. I'll continue to monitor this because you all have a lot of really interesting perspectives on the matter.
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Drinking has a kind-of cubic effect to your current state of mind.
If you are in a great mood (ie, your "happiness" is positive), drinking tends to have a celebratory effect. If its just a "meh" period of time (ie, your "happiness" is pretty much neutral), drinking doesn't help, nor hurt your mood. If you're in a terrible mood (ie, your "happiness" is negative), everything seems to just get worse.....
Not a great way of explaining it, but yea. Chances are, they were in shitty moods from something, before they even started drinking, and the alcohol just made it worse.
Basically - it probably looked a whole lot worse than it really is. And I've been in similar shoes before.....
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Could be either ur friend is somewhat fucked up or his GF just drove him mad and even you don't know what's all the fuss about. Ever wondering why ur friend is like this ? Gotta dig it up and see what's wrong with him, or may i say more kindly, what made him the way he is now.
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He may be your friend, but not speaking up to him and being honest about your feelings about the whole issue is a mistake.
I had started drinking a lot, and sleeping around, and had used women on occasion, and I was always the good guy all through school, I was going down a bad path. My best friend for about ... 16 years now... and I had a talk about everything, and it wasn't all interventiony, it was just him talking to me about it, and it opened my eyes to the situation. Not guaranteeing this will happen, I've had to stop being great friends with long time friends before as well because of their behavior. If it's not good for you, why be friends with someone. Look, the best thing you can do is talk to your friend, you know just say "it's been kinda awkward and I want to talk to you about this". Be honest about your feelings about how hard it is to talk to him about it, and he will listen more intently.
Not only that, you do know your friend, he probably has a problem, there may be deeper issues that lead him to be someone that would hit his girlfriend. If it's not brought to his attention through a third person's perspective then he may never change.
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i sometimes deal with people like this. not fun nights
the best way ive found is to divert their attention when they get real shitfaced and dont listen to anything. act in their/your best judgement, its basically an anger/loudness contest. and give them a TON of shit for it when theyre sobered up
for your situation specifically, id say make your opinion heard to them and let it be their business. if it keeps happening is when youd want to seek successively higher forms of authority. you dont know their situation or what happened
yeah its real stressful and crazy now but go to sleep and dont leave any feelings trapped when you confront them next
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alcohol sucks, nuff said, also, I think you need to keep an eye out on both the girl and your friend. Try and get him to AA if his drinking is really a problem and make sure to look out for any bruises on the girl, if you see any, call the cops
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Some people are really different when they're drunk. And I do mean completely different.
Let me tell you about my roomate... when in public my roommate is one of the quietest and self-conscious people I know. Even though we're best friends, he doesn't even like talking on the subway with me because he hates the idea of other people hearing our conversation. And he avoids anything that has the slighest potential to embarass himself.
But, after he's had about 6 shots of petrone in 15min during a bachelor's party in Vegas, he just becomes this really loud obnoxious asshole, it's so bizarre. I love this guy, he's a genuinely really nice and considerate guy deep down inside (even though he'd die a thousand deaths before he'd admit it), but when he's drunk he's just super obnoxious.. He leers at girls (he hates people who do that), he's constantly yelling (he hates loud people), and he gets super physical -- like either really affectionate with both guys and girls, or he just starts hitting and slapping people (and he hates touching/getting touched when sober).
Well, even after all that, my opinion of my friend hasn't changed. I still think he's a great guy -- he's just completely different when drunk. I strongly suspect that alcohol takes away my friend's inhibitions ... specifically, the ones that make him into a better person. Every day he keeps himself in check -- but take that away, and he goes loose with whatever he impulsively wants to do ... and a lot of that is some bad stuff.
But he knows it's a problem, and he successfully swore off drinking a few years ago (except for certain special occassions, like bachelor's parties, haha). I distinctly remember one night a few years ago when he came home really drunk after a night out with his friends, and even while he was so drunk off his ass, he was so utterly filled at remorse and regret and self-hatred at the things he did and said that night, asking himself "WHY DID I DO THAT". A few more months of that, and he came to realize that he couldn't (1) hang out with those friends and (2) control how much he drank without that happening and him hating himself again; so he stopped hanging out with them and stopped drinking.
Well, you know your friend best, so you take action however you see fit. But I'd start out with giving him the benefit of the doubt -- that your friend is who you knew him to be, but he has issues with alcohol (it is a drug after all). He's your friend after all, and he's probably not a bad guy.
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i thought this was like standard college drama
whatever dude, when it becomes physical, then it becomes your business (even minimally so, then, probably. You get to white-knight it enough to keep her bruise free.) feel free to voice your opinion, but don't expect to be heard.
also, drunk actions are sober thoughts. make sure the kid remembers he's still an asshole in the morning.
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On October 03 2010 16:22 krndandaman wrote:
Dude people are weird when they get fuked... was at my first party (same with friend) with a friend ive known since i was 8 and he fucking stripped and ran down the block first time he got drunk. Hes one of those normal guys that u would never expect that from. The 2nd party he was crying n the bathroom about how he was gonna die.. shits weird
Yeah they do. What I've noticed for this particular friend is that he's almost always ok drunk when we bro out and it's all guys. When there's girls around his mood is pretty fragile and he can get really sad / depressed really fast. It's any girls too, not just when his girlfriend is there. IDK, I just want to convince him to not get drunk next time we go out.
On October 03 2010 16:23 Impervious wrote:
Drinking has a kind-of cubic effect to your current state of mind.
If you are in a great mood (ie, your "happiness" is positive), drinking tends to have a celebratory effect. If its just a "meh" period of time (ie, your "happiness" is pretty much neutral), drinking doesn't help, nor hurt your mood. If you're in a terrible mood (ie, your "happiness" is negative), everything seems to just get worse.....
Not a great way of explaining it, but yea. Chances are, they were in shitty moods from something, before they even started drinking, and the alcohol just made it worse.
Basically - it probably looked a whole lot worse than it really is. And I've been in similar shoes before.....
I think this now as well. People are retarded when they're shitfaced. I can't see anything like this happening when he's sober. He was actually afraid that he did hit her when I talked to him yesterday, and that their relationship was over. He is a very smart dude and definitely completely rational when he's not drinking.
On October 03 2010 16:50 RaiZ wrote:
Could be either ur friend is somewhat fucked up or his GF just drove him mad and even you don't know what's all the fuss about. Ever wondering why ur friend is like this ? Gotta dig it up and see what's wrong with him, or may i say more kindly, what made him the way he is now.
Fragile emotional state when drinking + girlfriend who can hardly walk that he now has to get home probably did it for him. It probably didn't help that people were saying shit on the street to them like drunk people do. I don't think he's different, he's definitely not when he's sober, he's been the same the whole time I've known him.
On October 03 2010 17:18 Aberu wrote:He may be your friend, but not speaking up to him and being honest about your feelings about the whole issue is a mistake. + Show Spoiler +I had started drinking a lot, and sleeping around, and had used women on occasion, and I was always the good guy all through school, I was going down a bad path. My best friend for about ... 16 years now... and I had a talk about everything, and it wasn't all interventiony, it was just him talking to me about it, and it opened my eyes to the situation. Not guaranteeing this will happen, I've had to stop being great friends with long time friends before as well because of their behavior. If it's not good for you, why be friends with someone. Look, the best thing you can do is talk to your friend, you know just say "it's been kinda awkward and I want to talk to you about this". Be honest about your feelings about how hard it is to talk to him about it, and he will listen more intently. Not only that, you do know your friend, he probably has a problem, there may be deeper issues that lead him to be someone that would hit his girlfriend. If it's not brought to his attention through a third person's perspective then he may never change.
I talked to him yesterday, there's a post about it upwards. I believe there is a deeper issue, and that's his dad. I know he doesn't want to be like his dad, who could be laughing one second and screaming the next, but I can't help but think that just growing up around that rubbed off a little. At least he consciously knows that it is wrong and he tries to avoid it.
On October 03 2010 18:25 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
i sometimes deal with people like this. not fun nights
the best way ive found is to divert their attention when they get real shitfaced and dont listen to anything. act in their/your best judgement, its basically an anger/loudness contest. and give them a TON of shit for it when theyre sobered up
for your situation specifically, id say make your opinion heard to them and let it be their business. if it keeps happening is when youd want to seek successively higher forms of authority. you dont know their situation or what happened
yeah its real stressful and crazy now but go to sleep and dont leave any feelings trapped when you confront them next
I tried to discard whatever they said but the whole "it's happened before" from more than just the GF (the two people I ran into and another person too) kind of made that stick. I feel like I did the best that I could in the situation, including following up on him the next day and telling her what was going on before she went over to talk to him. Also on giving them a ton of shit, they're both really embarrassed and I feel that they both know what they did wrong and that self humility is best. Lastly, I pretty much voiced my concern and now they're dealing with it; I don't want to get caught up in a ton of shit for just trying make sure someone is safe - it sounds complicated already so after all that I'm just keeping my nose out until something happens.
On October 03 2010 18:49 PlaGuE_R wrote:
alcohol sucks, nuff said, also, I think you need to keep an eye out on both the girl and your friend. Try and get him to AA if his drinking is really a problem and make sure to look out for any bruises on the girl, if you see any, call the cops
I wouldn't call it a problem, because he in no way is addicted, but I will keep an eye on the both of them next time we go out. He is a dual Nuclear / Mechanical Engineering major so he has a lot of stress during the week and this is naturally time in which fun is to be had (or so it's thought initially). I don't think I will forget this, it'll always be in the back of my head.
On October 03 2010 22:45 Happy.fairytail wrote:Some people are really different when they're drunk. And I do mean completely different. + Show Spoiler +Let me tell you about my roomate... when in public my roommate is one of the quietest and self-conscious people I know. Even though we're best friends, he doesn't even like talking on the subway with me because he hates the idea of other people hearing our conversation. And he avoids anything that has the slighest potential to embarass himself.
But, after he's had about 6 shots of petrone in 15min during a bachelor's party in Vegas, he just becomes this really loud obnoxious asshole, it's so bizarre. I love this guy, he's a genuinely really nice and considerate guy deep down inside (even though he'd die a thousand deaths before he'd admit it), but when he's drunk he's just super obnoxious.. He leers at girls (he hates people who do that), he's constantly yelling (he hates loud people), and he gets super physical -- like either really affectionate with both guys and girls, or he just starts hitting and slapping people (and he hates touching/getting touched when sober).
Well, even after all that, my opinion of my friend hasn't changed. I still think he's a great guy -- he's just completely different when drunk. I strongly suspect that alcohol takes away my friend's inhibitions ... specifically, the ones that make him into a better person. Every day he keeps himself in check -- but take that away, and he goes loose with whatever he impulsively wants to do ... and a lot of that is some bad stuff.
But he knows it's a problem, and he successfully swore off drinking a few years ago (except for certain special occassions, like bachelor's parties, haha). I distinctly remember one night a few years ago when he came home really drunk after a night out with his friends, and even while he was so drunk off his ass, he was so utterly filled at remorse and regret and self-hatred at the things he did and said that night, asking himself "WHY DID I DO THAT". A few more months of that, and he came to realize that he couldn't (1) hang out with those friends and (2) control how much he drank without that happening and him hating himself again; so he stopped hanging out with them and stopped drinking. Well, you know your friend best, so you take action however you see fit. But I'd start out with giving him the benefit of the doubt -- that your friend is who you knew him to be, but he has issues with alcohol (it is a drug after all). He's your friend after all, and he's probably not a bad guy.
Completely agree.
On October 04 2010 01:07 Gene wrote:
i thought this was like standard college drama
whatever dude, when it becomes physical, then it becomes your business (even minimally so, then, probably. You get to white-knight it enough to keep her bruise free.) feel free to voice your opinion, but don't expect to be heard.
also, drunk actions are sober thoughts. make sure the kid remembers he's still an asshole in the morning.
It's relatively drama free here so I'll clear up that one. On the drunk actions being sober thoughts, I'm not too sure about that. Some people have crazy alter egos that appear when they drink. Some people do things that there's no way they would do anything of the nature sober; I think stripping, being obnoxious, physical touching etc were mentioned above. I'm going to have to disagree on the latter.
Thanks again everyone.
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yeah unless the gf's friends specifically say 'yes, weve seen him hit her' i wouldnt put a whole lot of stock into a girl who was so blackout drunk that she couldnt walk and was making a scene
and the girl that you were so concerned about getting picked up for public drinking walked into a store. of course he went in there to go drag her ass out. that doesnt mean hes gonna actually hit her. thats totally different that raising a hand to her.
unless you actually see it happen, or see her with a blackeye and she confirms it, youre making a huge deal out of a fight between two drunk people where the only physical thing was the drunk girl pushing the guy and refusing to leave a store, risking arrest. welcome to college. this will happen many more times, with entirely different people. do you know the implications if he were to get in trouble for that?? you dont mention him raising his hand or anything. all he did was say something and walk in after her.
watch him carefully if youre that concerned but just make sure that hes actually hits her or really intended to before you go making a huge deal out it.
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I would just let things move along, but be sure to keep an eye on both of them, not just her. Since you are good friends with the guy and probably see the girl a lot, you can step in when things get really bad. You care about your friends a lot and sometimes no matter who they are or how long you've known them, you got to do the right thing and after reading your blog, I believe you will.
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On October 04 2010 03:12 Hawk wrote:
yeah unless the gf's friends specifically say 'yes, weve seen him hit her' i wouldnt put a whole lot of stock into a girl who was so blackout drunk that she couldnt walk and was making a scene
and the girl that you were so concerned about getting picked up for public drinking walked into a store. of course he went in there to go drag her ass out. that doesnt mean hes gonna actually hit her. thats totally different that raising a hand to her.
unless you actually see it happen, or see her with a blackeye and she confirms it, youre making a huge deal out of a fight between two drunk people where the only physical thing was the drunk girl pushing the guy and refusing to leave a store, risking arrest. welcome to college. this will happen many more times, with entirely different people. do you know the implications if he were to get in trouble for that?? you dont mention him raising his hand or anything. all he did was say something and walk in after her.
watch him carefully if youre that concerned but just make sure that hes actually hits her or really intended to before you go making a huge deal out it.
I think you've grossly misunderstood what happened.
1) She wasn't making a scene. If we had it our way she should have sobered up at the party but the boyfriend INSISTED on getting her back to her place instead of letting that happen.
2) She didn't walk into the store because she wanted to. It was his idea. From what I could hear between the sobs she just wanted to get back to her place. He went in there after her because she shoved away from him and went in (that's what he wanted). He went off.
Also, as soon as I got him out she stumbled out the other side. I don't think she was in any way trying to stay in the store or wanted to go in there in the first place.
3) I'm not making a huge deal out of anything. I got a girl home safely, and I talked to my friend the next day (yesterday). They're both embarrassed and said they're making changes. Sure this seems like a big deal in this thread because IT IS A BIG DEAL TO ME - that doesn't mean I MADE it a big deal to them. I've had as little interaction with them over this as possible.
4) About him raising a hand, if he would have gotten close enough I don't know what would have happened. Would you have wanted to find out what an irate person would have done?
5) Welcome to college? I'm a junior, but thanks buddy.
On October 04 2010 03:18 AppleTart wrote:
I would just let things move along, but be sure to keep an eye on both of them, not just her. Since you are good friends with the guy and probably see the girl a lot, you can step in when things get really bad. You care about your friends a lot and sometimes no matter who they are or how long you've known them, you got to do the right thing and after reading your blog, I believe you will.
Thanks dude, good words.
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of course theyre embarrassed, youre acting liek a dude yelling at his gf hauled off and popped her. its like a whole new level of white knighting, the pre-emptive strike
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EPT
