Since my last blog was not a hit with the mods, I'll chronicle a certain half hour of my life tonight that should be at least mildly interesting to try to make up for it!
So I was driving from upstate new york down to where I live, Long Island. Its about a four hour drive, and I decided to do it at night when there is no traffic. Traffic near new york city can be hazardous to one's physical and emotional well being. (Not a joke.)
So I'm sipping an energy drink the whole way to keep myself perked up and attentive.
I get pulled over, but I'm in the left lane so I have to cross two lanes of traffic that is going 70mph+(110kph+ to you metric users) to get over, and his lights are brighter than the sun so I risk life and limb to do so.
Then he walks up, informs of my transgressions and begins the interrogation.
"Where are you coming from?" "Visiting my girlfriend, near binghamton." "Where are you going?" "Home." "To commack?"(He read it off my license.) "Thats the one." "Have you been to canada at all this weekend?"
Ah. so he thinks im smuggling drugs. woonderrfulll.
"Nope." "Alright, can you please step out of the vehicle, come back here with me."
He then proceeds to ask me if I'll claim responbility for anything in the car, because he is going to have his dog search it.
Him and his dog TEAR UP my car. Another officer waits and watches with me
officer 2: "So why are you so afraid?" "Well a dude and his dog are tearing up my car, but I'm not afraid its the enormous amount of monster I've been drinking."
We chat, he asks me where I went to school, I'm scared about the open bottle of wine in my backseat that he's inevitably found already, which is highly illegal.
Then it hits me that I have my friends hookah pipe in my trunk me: "Oh my god." "What?" "My friend, well, its not for smoking pot but.." "A hookah?" "Oh so you understand."
Cop from my car "What the fuck do you smoke out of this huge pipe?"
My cop laughs and explains for me. Thank christ. I'm like ready to pee myself now. The k9 officer explains to me his problem with finding people bringing drugs from canada and all his bullshit. He tells me not to worry about the light or the alcohol, and thanks me for being so patient and understanding, and they both drive away.
Last week I was driving a rental upstate, and was lost. Had my hi-beams on. Got pulled over for it, the officer said my registration was suspended (Not mine. rental car.) Threatens to arrest me and writes me a ticket for "Failure to dim headlights" and "operating an unregistered vehicle."
two months ago i got a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt
I am a MAGNET for cops.
That is only 1/4 of the times i've been pulled over.
On what authority did they search your car? They can't do it unless you give permission or if they have some kind of probable cause based on what they see through the windows, I believe.
So you have a pipe and an open bottle of booze in your car and you give them permission to search? Wat lol.
BTW interesting how you point out the difficulty pulling over with all the lights flashing... I hadn't thought about that but it makes sense. Fortunately I don't have any experience with this.
Last night I was driving back from Connecticut (chose to leave about 10:45pm for a similar reason) and saw a couple of people get pulled over around me.
edit: was kinda weird how a cop pulled a guy over from the leftmost lane just before toll booths for the Throgs neck... the guy had to go right across like 12 lanes to get over in no time at all lol
Exactly how do cops pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt? Do they just pull you over, walk right up to your window, and say, "Hey, I saw you not wearing your seatbelt. Here's a ticket"? I feel like the view from outside a car isn't very great, so it's tough to see whether or not a person is wearing their seatbelt.
Also, the cop can't just search your car without probable cause.
And that headlight and registration thing is kinda weird. Registration isn't your fault 'cause it's a rental, and dim vs bright headlights are hard to tell. Some cars have really freaking bright headlights.
i forgot about the pipe. Took a real gamble with the wine haha
And yeah man, when he said he was letting me go i was like "I really appreciate it but you either have to pull out first or dim your lights if thats cool, I couldnt see a THING getting over."
apparently i felt pretty ballsy at the time to start giving him orders.
On August 03 2010 13:37 DTK-m2 wrote: Exactly how do cops pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt? Do they just pull you over, walk right up to your window, and say, "Hey, I saw you not wearing your seatbelt. Here's a ticket"? I feel like the view from outside a car isn't very great, so it's tough to see whether or not a person is wearing their seatbelt.
Also, the cop can't just search your car without probable cause.
And that headlight and registration thing is kinda weird. Registration isn't your fault 'cause it's a rental, and dim vs bright headlights are hard to tell. Some cars have really freaking bright headlights.
I feel the EXACT same way about the seatbelt thing, but I didnt even see that officer behind me, he followed me into a parking lot with his lights flashing because he rode my ass so hard i couldnt see the lights on top of his truck lol. I put the belt on while he couldnt have possibly seen so when he's right he's right, idk how eagle eyes over in Ithaca did it, but he did.
On August 03 2010 13:37 DTK-m2 wrote: Exactly how do cops pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt? Do they just pull you over, walk right up to your window, and say, "Hey, I saw you not wearing your seatbelt. Here's a ticket"? I feel like the view from outside a car isn't very great, so it's tough to see whether or not a person is wearing their seatbelt.
Also, the cop can't just search your car without probable cause.
And that headlight and registration thing is kinda weird. Registration isn't your fault 'cause it's a rental, and dim vs bright headlights are hard to tell. Some cars have really freaking bright headlights.
I'll tell you how...uh because it's obvious you aren't wearing one? It's very easy to tell from behind the vehicle whether or not your seatbelt is on.
As for searching a car, it can be done if they see something in plain view that gives them probably cause...like say an open bottle of wine? :/
On August 03 2010 13:37 DTK-m2 wrote: Exactly how do cops pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt? Do they just pull you over, walk right up to your window, and say, "Hey, I saw you not wearing your seatbelt. Here's a ticket"? I feel like the view from outside a car isn't very great, so it's tough to see whether or not a person is wearing their seatbelt.
Also, the cop can't just search your car without probable cause.
And that headlight and registration thing is kinda weird. Registration isn't your fault 'cause it's a rental, and dim vs bright headlights are hard to tell. Some cars have really freaking bright headlights.
I'll tell you how...uh because it's obvious you aren't wearing one? It's very easy to tell from behind the vehicle whether or not your seatbelt is on.
As for searching a car, it can be done if they see something in plain view that gives them probably cause...like say an open bottle of wine? :/
Would you look at the area immediately to the left of the driver's seat's headrest, cause that's the only place I can think of. If so, some cars have seatbelts where the place where it's attached to the side of the car is set very low... Idk, I'll be sure to take a close look next time I drive.
You do know that he didn't have probable cause, right? Or even the bullshit excuse "reasonable suspicion". The minute he said "Will you accept responsibility for anything found in the car?" was your cue to tell him you don't consent to any searches.
On August 03 2010 13:37 DTK-m2 wrote: Exactly how do cops pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt? Do they just pull you over, walk right up to your window, and say, "Hey, I saw you not wearing your seatbelt. Here's a ticket"? I feel like the view from outside a car isn't very great, so it's tough to see whether or not a person is wearing their seatbelt.
Also, the cop can't just search your car without probable cause.
And that headlight and registration thing is kinda weird. Registration isn't your fault 'cause it's a rental, and dim vs bright headlights are hard to tell. Some cars have really freaking bright headlights.
I'll tell you how...uh because it's obvious you aren't wearing one? It's very easy to tell from behind the vehicle whether or not your seatbelt is on.
As for searching a car, it can be done if they see something in plain view that gives them probably cause...like say an open bottle of wine? :/
yeah its definitely NOT very obvious, because seeing a setbelt when you ARENT directly behind them is almost impossible. It was daytime and I didnt know he was there at all, so that is VERY plausible. But just for the sake of playing devils advocate, have you ever tried seeing into someones car at night time? Cause its definitely not possible in contrast with headlights. The bottle of wine was under a towel, because im not THAT stupid, though obviously close.
and no, i never wear my seatbelt.
On August 03 2010 13:51 gdroxor wrote: You do know that he didn't have probable cause, right? Or even the bullshit excuse "reasonable suspicion". The minute he said "Will you accept responsibility for anything found in the car?" was your cue to tell him you don't consent to any searches.
and again, I was more interested in getting out of the ticket. I have no job and no money.
Yeah nothing is actually ruined. I have a TON of shit in my car and no stone was left unturned, so to speak. The dog had two legs in my car and the cop had to get fully in because my trunk doesnt open from the outside haha
On August 03 2010 13:32 micronesia wrote: On what authority did they search your car? They can't do it unless you give permission or if they have some kind of probable cause based on what they see through the windows, I believe.
This is correct. You may politely decline to exit the vehicle and/or decline their request to search it. If they do in fact search it, they are breaking the law.
this is a rough guide of how you basically can screw yourself over by consenting to whatever they want. you can actually deny their search
idk, i always wear it in someone elses car because i think thats just rude otherwise, and I just have a general disdain for it while i'm driving. I feel like on long long drives its just a nuisance.
On August 03 2010 15 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 03 2010 15 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 03 2010 15 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:04 micronesia wrote: Why don't you wear a seatbelt when driving?
i'm curious about this as well.
It literally takes a second to put on and restricts you from doing nothing while you are busy driving anyway.
edit: oops , didnt see you response, I was hoping for a more interesting answer;p
I got pulled over again on Friday evening. In the same exact spot I was pulled over a couple weeks ago. And again, no ticket and no warning because the stop was an illegal stop and detention. My interaction with the A. Police Officer (APO) went something like this:
APO: Good afternoon ME: [silent] APO: Good afternoon sir ME: [silent] APO: GOOD AFTERNOON SIR [raising voice] ME: [silent] APO: Do you know why I pulled you over? ME: No APO: I pulled you over because you have window tint on your front side windows ME: [Silent] APO: You ever been pulled over for this before? ME: No, my car is registered in Colorado. APO: In Michigan you are not allowed to have window tint on your front side windows. ME: Officer, I am not trying to argue with you, but I am very familiar with the statute relating to window tint in Michigan and I know that the statute specifically exempts vehicles that are not registered in Michigan.
[I am VERY familiar with it, and I keep a copy of it in my car. MCL 257.709 (3)(d) "this section shall not apply to a vehicle registered in another state . . ." My car is registered in Colorado and has clearly visible Colorado plates.]
APO: [says something else about the tint I can't remember] ME: Officer, even if it did apply I have a doctors recommendation to have window tint.
[MCL 257.709 (3)(e) "This section shall not apply to . . . A special window treatment or application determined necessary by a physician or optometrist, for the protection of a person who is light sensitive or photosensitive, if the owner or operator of a motor vehicle has in possession a letter signed by a physician or optometrist." Yes, I have a recommendation for window tint from my optometrist. I keep a copy with my other vehicle documentation at all times.]
APO: Well, a doctors recommendation would probably be a good reason to have window tint on the windows. [Apparently the fact that it is not illegal is insufficient for this Officer] APO: Do you know you that is an illegal spotlight? [pointing . . my car is a former police-duty crown victoria and the department I purchased it from left the A-pillar spotlight installed on the driver's side] ME: Officer, again I am not trying to argue with you. But I have been through this whole thing before [oops, should never say that to a cop, it triggers their Superman complex], but I am also very familiar with that statute that you are referring to, and I know that the very next statute by number specifically authorizes up to two spotlights.
[Also true; MCL 257.698 (5) prohibits the use or possession of flashing, oscillating, or rotating lights of any color. I think it is the only equipment violation in Michigan that is a criminal misdemeanor and not a civil infraction. You can't go buy an emergency light bar and throw it on top of your car. But MCL 257.696 (a) says "motor vehicle may be equipped with not more than 2 spot lamps," and specifically authorizes spotlights. Hey Officer, the rotating, flashing lights that you think are illegal are like the ones you see every day on the top of your patrol car, not the spotlights that I'm sure you see all the time on non-police work trucks. You ever pull them over?]
ME: Officer, if you think it is illegal write me a ticket and we'll have a judge decide. [ADDED: asking an officer to write a ticket for something they allege is a violation is a strategy I have used successfully several times to end the discussion about the supposed violation, otherwise the officer will just argue you just to make you more agitated and keep you talking, eventually you will say something incriminating, or they at least get to tell the judge that you continued to argue with them and just make you come across as crazy.] APO: Just give me your license, insurance and registration. How long have you lived in East Lansing?
[Trying to get me to say something that would be an admission that my vehicle is illegally registered in Colorado because residents have to register vehicles in Michigan I think within 90 days of taking up residency. It is not illegally registered.]
ME：Officer, my vehicle is registered in Colorado. APO: I know but how long have you lived here? ME: Officer, my vehicle is registered in Colorado. APO: Ok, you don't want to talk to me . . .
[He goes to run license, takes 4-5 minutes. At this time a second patrol car arrives and fully blocks the side street I had turned on to to pull over out of the main traffic]
APO: Well, it looks like your Colorado registration is valid until December, 2010. [I already knew that] APO: Where did you buy the vehicle? [Is that relevant to the window tint? No. So still trying to get me to say something that could be construed as an admission to illegally registering my car in Colorado? Probably.] Me: Officer, my vehicle is legally registered in Colorado. APO: Did you buy this car in Michigan? [Not at all relevant, but No] ME: Officer, my car is legally registered in Colorado. APO: I know. WHERE DID YOU BUY THE CAR? [raising his voice] ME: Officer, am I being detai... APO: [Interrupts me and tosses drivers license and insurance through window] Have a nice day. Me: Thank you.
After he threw my documentation through the window, the Asshole Police Officer did not get back in his patrol car. He went to the rear driver side of my car, struck a Superman pose, and glared at me through the driver's side mirror. He had a very strange, smug smirk on his face. That was my first time experiencing that after a traffic stop, and I was really concerned that he did not get back into his patrol car and turn the emergency lights off because how else do you know that you are really free to go? He didn't actually say I could leave, and he cut me off before I could even get the question out of whether or not I was still being detained. He didn't move as I drove down the street and took a right turn because I didn't want to make a potentially illegal U-turn in front of him. I took two more right turns so that I was back on the street I had been traveling on and in the same direction before he pulled me over. I had gotten stopped at a red light, so it took a couple of minutes. When I passed the side street I had pulled into, the officer was there, with his patrol car turned around and facing the main traffic. He waited until I passed in front of him, then he pulled in a coupled cars behind me and followed me for about 7-8 more blocks. Very assholeish, and kind of creepy.
A traffic stop is an investigatory detention that must be supported by reasonable suspicion to be lawful. Reasonable suspicion is an objectively justifiable suspicion based on specific facts or circumstances that would cause a reasonable officer to believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity. There are only two possibilities in this case:
A) Officer is incompetent, poorly trained, and un-knowledgeable about the basic aspects of his patrol job because didn't know that the window tint statute does not apply non-Michigan registered vehicles and that the common type of spotlight on my vehicle are specifically authorized. I think one of the most troublesome aspects of the rampant overcriminalization and regulation in our society is that it creates such a massive body of restrictions with so many exemptions, officers are unable to determine when a person is violating them, or more importantly, not violating them. But the vehicle code in Michigan isn't that complicated, and I know that many patrol officers get into the very minutea of vehicle code regulation so that they are knowledgeable enough to spot minor infractions that are so petty or insubstantial many motorists are not aware of them or ignore them. I don't care how good of a driver you are, a cop can follow a car, and eventually that person is going to make some minor error and give that officer reasonable suspicion to stop them. That's why such a huge percentage of DUI stops are based on infractions that have nothing to do with being intoxicated or impaired. Ever make a turn at an intersection and go from the outside lane to the inside lane during the turn? I see people do it every time I drive somewhere, but do it in front of a cop after you have had a couple drinks and you very well may be F-U-C-K-E-D. Or how have you ever had an air freshener or other knick-knack hanging from your rear-view mirror? Have you checked that little light over your license plate recently? Or do you sometimes drive with your windows down and stereo on? Different pretexts, same results.
B) The second option is that Officer pulled me over without valid reasonable suspicion, knew he didn't have reasonable suspicion to justify the detention, and just assumed that I wouldn't know. He decided he didn't like the look of that crown vic, and didn't want to take the time to follow the driver long enough for them to make a minor error. Or it is some type of petty retaliation, because my car is slightly distinctive, and last week I filed FOIA requests with the ELPD for all the documentation related to the traffic stop from a few weeks ago. The number of interactions I have had with police officers like this is well into double digits, and almost all of them have been very negative experiences for me. This officer did not issue me a citation, and did not issue a warning. It wasn't because he decided to cut me some slack and give me a "free pass." I have never gotten a "free pass" from a cop in my life. If he really believed that the window tint and spotlight were illegal, he would have issued a ticket or a warning, and not just taken my word on what the statute said or if it applied. I still haven't decided which of these options is worse; A poorly trained, unknowledgeable officers, or a malicious officer that illegally violates the Constitutional rights of citizens at will. No doubt an officer that doesn't hesitate to illegally detain a person probably doesn't hesitate to conduct an illegal search, illegally coerce statements, or unnecessarily escalate the force level and whip out some tasers and pepper spray on people.
UPDATE I: I submitted a FOIA request for the audio recordings from both stops last week, I will post it when it is available to me. I recieved the response from my first FOIA request, they gave me the dispatch record overview, but none of the detail information from my stop the previous traffic stop. There was also no indication of a complaint in the overview to what the officer said he was stopping me for.
On August 03 2010 15:23 Beloth(OD) wrote: Sooo was the part of your friend not using the hookah to smoke pot true?
yeah def, he thinks the resin would ruin it.
And being an actuary just shows you dollar amounts of claims, i dont have any hard evidence that seatbelts are really saving any lives My next test is this friday :|. Lets hope I pass this time.
and @ HB: Yeah, I get that a lot of cops over-abuse their powers simply out of ignorance of their own legal right to do so. In his shoes I would have probably done the same thing, though I didn't feel that jumpy until he asked me to step out of the car, which is obviously a little too late. But whatev noone is too worse for the wear after the experience. It would have been nice to not have a stranger and a dog go through my car but at least I got away without any tickets.
Can someone also explain to me how this blog bump thing works? I got mad confused when I couldnt find mine lol. Does it get bumped on the forum index only for the first few hours?
The order of blogs in the sidebar works differently than other forum sections. It doesn't order by most recent post... it is chronological by when the original post was made. In other words, whenever a new blog is made it appears at the top of the list until a new blog is made and never goes back up on the list (unless a blog newer than yours gets closed/moved).
EPT
My next test is this friday :|. Lets hope I pass this time.
