I would rank Jaedong higher then some of the bonjwas if I where to make a "Greatest players of all time"-list but still in my eyes he has never been one.

In a way his high consistency over these ~2.5 years is more impressive then having been this totally unstoppable force for about a year or so.

Deleted User 47542

1484 Posts

May 31 2010 19:31 GMT

#22

Flash has the most dominant win rate out of all players, thus making him statistically the best SC player out there. Psychologically, he is not a bonjwa yet, but he and Jaedong really deserve to be on the list for being the best players to have ever played Starcraft.

fallingdream

Romania452 Posts

May 31 2010 19:38 GMT

#23

It's always funny to see randoms on the internet think they have a say in the matter. Yeah you go tell 'em bro, those commentators in south korea are clueless and idiots to call Flash above Bonjwa, I mean, what do they know? It's not like they've been in the pro scene since it started.

altered

Switzerland646 Posts

May 31 2010 19:48 GMT

#24

if i remember correctly forgg wasnt on KT but on OZ when he 3-0d jaedong

Ideas

United States8091 Posts

May 31 2010 19:56 GMT

#25

I've always said that if we were to call flash a bonjwa now then we would have to call JD a bonjwa for totally dominating january-august 09, which was even harder then because of the GOM league (again a reason why many believed flash struggled back then was because he was too spread out among the 4 leagues just like JD was).

Reason

United Kingdom2770 Posts

May 31 2010 22:00 GMT

#26

Flash is Yoda and Jaedong is Obi Wan.

SoManyDeadLings

Canada255 Posts

May 31 2010 22:39 GMT

#27

Fucking Jesus Christ.

I don't like to swear seemingly randomly, but really, fuck, stop it with the flash bonjwa discussion.

Sure he is the favorite to win at the moment, but so was stork, bisu, and a host of other progamers at their prime. During iloveoov's 20 something to 1 TvZ streak, I'd be willing to bet a good amount of my life on his games. Can I say the same for Flash? Certainly not.

Flash is the favorite to win against ANY player, surely, but he does not have the same aura of dominance that the other bonjwas had.

Reason

United Kingdom2770 Posts

May 31 2010 22:43 GMT

#28

On June 01 2010 07:39 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
Fucking Jesus Christ.

I don't like to swear seemingly randomly, but really, fuck, stop it with the flash bonjwa discussion.

Sure he is the favorite to win at the moment, but so was stork, bisu, and a host of other progamers at their prime. During iloveoov's 20 something to 1 TvZ streak, I'd be willing to bet a good amount of my life on his games. Can I say the same for Flash? Certainly not.

Flash is the favorite to win against ANY player, surely, but he does not have the same aura of dominance that the other bonjwas had.

No.

You are so unbelievably hypocritical I want you to die.

"STOP WITH THIS DISCUSSION...BUT WHILE YOU ARE DISCUSSING IT, HERE'S MY PERSONAL OPINION."

Just no.

TheMute

United States458 Posts

May 31 2010 23:08 GMT

#29

Flash is obviously the #1 programmer in the world atm. However, he is not a bonjwa. He doesn't need to match the accomplishments of past bonjwas. He just needs a general consensus of the community he is dominant. As long as there are die hard Jaedong fans (hi) disputing Flash's dominance, Flash can't be seen as a bonjwa. I.E. No one disputed past bonjwa's dominance or their label as bonjwa. It is clear you are number one in the world right now Flash, but no bonjwa for you, sowwy

alexpnd

Canada1857 Posts

May 31 2010 23:44 GMT

#30

I can't believe this is still happening. You guys need to realize bonjwa is dead. It's 2010. Flash is neo-bonjwa. Eat it.

Reason

United Kingdom2770 Posts

May 31 2010 23:46 GMT

#31

On June 01 2010 08:08 TheMute wrote:
Flash is obviously the #1 programmer in the world atm. However, he is not a bonjwa. He doesn't need to match the accomplishments of past bonjwas. He just needs a general consensus of the community he is dominant. As long as there are die hard Jaedong fans (hi) disputing Flash's dominance, Flash can't be seen as a bonjwa. I.E. No one disputed past bonjwa's dominance or their label as bonjwa. It is clear you are number one in the world right now Flash, but no bonjwa for you, sowwy

Your post is also ridiculous.

You and everyone else says Flash is #1. You say it repeatedly in THIS post for F's sake... and you are not the only one....

You then say "He just needs a general consensus of the community he is dominant."

WELL GUESS WHAT HE HAS IT LOL

I mean seriously... you begin with the statement "Flash is obviously the #1 programmer in the world atm."

edit: just noticed your classic typo... programmer haha xD

GHOSTCLAW

United States17042 Posts

May 31 2010 23:49 GMT

#32

well he was as dominant as the other bonjwas before he started his fall to effort. It's not about the statistics, but he was destoying people earlier this year. He hit timings that no one thought was there, and he's been demonstrating consistent play. Sure, it's not as dominant as nada was when he was playing for Pantech-ex, but you can see the same quality and persistence that nada had in flash.

read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=24190
or watch the game that they're talking about:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/2093_GoRush_vs_NaDa/vod

and then watch flash do something similar in many of his TvZ's this season, most notably:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/41763_Action_vs_Flash/vod

Flash was evoking the same feeling of dominance over me earlier this year, as was jaedong when he looked invincible. The maps and metagame changes mean that there is probably not going to be a continued period of dominance like there was during savior, Nada's, or Oov's reign, but there is still that feeling that no matter what the maps are, flash will continue to be "the exception" to map and matchup trends.