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http://pathtolaw.blogspot.com
I created this blog to document my studying habits and to force myself to follow a study plan for my LSAT test in December, which is still a long ways away. This is my first entry, and I will update this with my entries on my blog every 2 weeks or so, because updating everyday can be a hassle.
Monday, March 1, 2010
I visit this website called Top Law Schools (http://www.top-law-schools.com/) in which the members on its forum post valuable advice and guides to doing well on the LSAT, as well as in the future when I enter law school. I can honestly say that this place is the best find in my academic career. The people on the forums are extremely helpful, and while I don't generate discussion, I can sift through all their posts over the years and gain valuable insight in how they went about their tests.
The three prep books they recommend to students studying the LSAT are Powerscore LGB and LRB, and The Official LSAT SuperPrep. I can't wait for these to arrive. I'm still working on final projects for my last semester at my undergraduate school, so I can't do any heavy duty studying until I graduate, which will be this May, but I can still flip through them just to see what will be in store for me during the summer.
I've also bought two books (for light reading). The first one is Getting to Maybe by Fischl and Paul, and it is one of the books recommended for law students to use as supplements to their education in law school. This means I am getting ahead of my self a little bit, but I am in between books right now and I feel the need to immerse myself into law study just so I am prepared for when I do go into law school.
The next book on my reading list is Should You Really Be a Lawyer?: The Guide to Smart Career Choices Before, During & After Law School. It's supposedly a fun little read about the realities of law and many people really like how the author explains and unravels the myths of being a lawyer, most likely to dissuade the faint of heart. Seeing how I am dead set on becoming a lawyer, this book should provide me with extra knowledge on the careers I can look forward to as I graduate, as well as prepare me for the grueling years in law school.
My first foray into LSAT is a complete success...in that I have bought all the necessary materials I feel I need to follow my study plan. I am thinking about taking the LSAT in December, which will give me time for a retake next February if I need it. I am of course aiming for just one test, which is the reason I am starting my studying so early. I also do not want to burn myself out, which is also unlikely as I find the material extremely fascinating. I flipped through Kaplan's and Barron's LSAT study books in the library today which gave me a sense of where I needed to be in 9 months, and I took a few LR drills just to warm myself up. The questions asked in those books are much more interesting than the dull ones you find on the GRE, which was a killer to study for.
I'm feeling very confident going into this and I can't wait to get started on the bulk of my studying. Another 2 months until graduation!
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I remember I once considered law school because I was too addicted to Law and Order.
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On March 01 2010 17:23 illu wrote:
I remember I once considered law school because I was too addicted to Law and Order.
I remember I once considered med school because I was too addicted to mah meds.
But seriously, good luck with the LSAT! My friend who is going to Law school right now says that a good LSAT score will go a far ways in entering grad school, so I hope you kick ass!
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Hey, you're in the same boat as me pretty much. I'm graduating in this quarter and I'm also planning to study like mad for an LSAT I plan to take late this year.
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Braavos36374 Posts
The LSAT books other than the ones that provide real tests are really quite worse than just taking several practice tests yourself. If I were you, I'd buy the 10 Real LSATs books (I think there are two, maybe three of these now) and take as many sections as possible under real conditions. Yes, that means taking a full 3-4hr test in one sitting.
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I concur with HOT_Bid, buy the LSAT book of the 10 most recent LSATs; the second book of 10 Real LSATs has logic games that are very different than the more modern ones. I scored a 166, so take what I have to say with that in mind.
I studied for the LSAT like I played sudoku, I would just do one section every now and then (which was maybe once section a day between classes). I started in the summer and took the fall test. In all honesty, I never took a full 3-4 hour practice test in one sitting. If you are one of the people that get fatigued and like to simulate test day conditions, then I recommend doing this, and I would also recommend actually adding a random section because there is always one experimental section on the test.
I know a lot of people who paid for a course, and from what they say that really increased there scores (they are expensive though). I found certain sections to be easier (aka reading comp was easy for me, I only missed one question on the test) and the logic games to be more difficult, even though I was an engineering major. The more practice you do, the better you will become, so just do a ton of problems. I tended to focus on logic games, because that was my weak point. Finally, I would say that you shouldn't be afraid to take the test twice, most people improve and even if you don't, schools won't hold it against you.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of law are you all looking to get into? Best of luck studying for the test! By the way, I also posted a lot on top-law-schools and on lawschoolnumbers. I am currently a 2L at UC Davis School of Law, and if you are in town and want a tour or to sit on some classes just pm me.
*edited for grammer
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On March 01 2010 17:42 Hot_Bid wrote:
The LSAT books other than the ones that provide real tests are really quite worse than just taking several practice tests yourself. If I were you, I'd buy the 10 Real LSATs books (I think there are two, maybe three of these now) and take as many sections as possible under real conditions. Yes, that means taking a full 3-4hr test in one sitting.
^^^grammer^^^ 
Definitely backing this a lot. I took the test twice. The first time, I was really sick and had a brutal migrane, so the score isn't close to as good as I could have done but took it anyway just so I'd have two scores in case I shit the bed. Which I did. 143 (lol).
The second time, I felt fine, slept a lot that week and got a 159. Do not do anything out of the fucking ordinary in that week leading up. The first go round, I was up late studying, I took an adderoll, a turbo D&D coffee AND a 5 hour energy the morning of the first test. No wonder why I shit the bed.
A high lsat will do wonders for your chances. Because my first year of undergrad was terrible, it really dropped my GPA and I was looking at bottom tier schools. Now, because of the 159, I've got a good shot at Seton Hall, Rutgers, Pace, Hofstra, etc (according to the LSAC site). Not amazing schools, but certainly good enough that if I put in the time, I will get the results I expect. I implore you to take the test as early as possible though, because as much as I improved, my apps are just going out now, so my much better grades will be buried in the bottom of the pile. I'm stuck with all the other assholes who waited til their LSATs came in to send in their apps.
As far as studying, I think you need a healthy mix of just taking tests to understand the process, and then real game-time simulations or whatever. That 3-4hrs is fucking brutal when you're sitting there. You need to at least do a couple of those on your own. It's really not the content that will kill you, it's the absurd time frame that you're expected to finish in. On my most recent test, I think I only completed one section? You can also just test one section on a timed basis and that helps a lot too. Also, try to figure out how long you need to do an average question, and how much you're alloted based on the time. I think the average logic game requires you to do it in 8.5mins to finish the section. This is huge to remember on test day.
Also, another important point is when you're studying is to recognize what types of things give you the most trouble. For some reason, the ones that would go 'Someone does something bla bla... what train of thought is most like the original question?' would drive me nuts. Learn what to skip and come back to later. Do the easy shit first. Even questions that are difficult, you can usually knock off a few answers. Make sure you mark it on your scan tron, so that if you have to guess, you at least know what to limit it to. Also, test makers hate making the answer A. It helps to read the question, and look at the answer starting with E.
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Yea when I said I did one section every now and then, I meant to say I did this over a long period of time (so I ended up doing a ton of sections) and I also made sure that I timed each of them. Time is a huge factor on the LSAT and just being quick enough is half the battle.
Hawk, I think you definitely have a shot at those schools, but I think you can aim higher (I don't know your GPA). You have a good shot at places like Loyola, Pepperdine, San Deigo and Santa Clara, if California is somewhere you would want to go to school and work. You should at least try. Likewise, if you get first year grades at those schools you can always transfer to higher ranked schools if that's your thing. I also took the test twice and scored 7 points higher the second time, without studying very much between the tests. Being sick or just being nervous can definitely hurt your score.
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I'd like to work in the tri-state area, so I'm trying to keep it here. But yeah, your health and mentality going in is very key. I did the same shit on the old SATs, was sick and did like 940 and was good going into the next one and banged out 1210.
SOB, i've heard mixed things about transfering, since law school is very much about networking, that changing in a three year program severely undermines that. Any input??
I have a 2.8. My first three semesters before I dropped out are like a fucking anchor around my neck, I hit a 0.9 one semester, but have pretty much been a 3.0+ every semester since I returned.
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Damn man I was going to make a blog exactly like this, we are in the same boat my friend. They have 30+ old LSAT tests available to buy, you should look into those.
I only bought the bibles just as extra practice problems.
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On March 01 2010 17:42 Hot_Bid wrote:
The LSAT books other than the ones that provide real tests are really quite worse than just taking several practice tests yourself. If I were you, I'd buy the 10 Real LSATs books (I think there are two, maybe three of these now) and take as many sections as possible under real conditions. Yes, that means taking a full 3-4hr test in one sitting.
Yea, I plan on buying those practice test packets after I graduate. My plan is to take 3 PTs per week in the months leading to my exam, with a day in between them for adequate review time. So M, W, F will be test days, T, Th, S will be additional review and concentrating on my worst sections, Su will be a full review of the week, going over the hard questions again and making sure I understand the games (how they work etc.)
On March 01 2010 18:31 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
I studied for the LSAT like I played sudoku, I would just do one section every now and then (which was maybe once section a day between classes).
Just out of curiosity, what kind of law are you all looking to get into? Best of luck studying for the test! By the way, I also posted a lot on top-law-schools and on lawschoolnumbers. I am currently a 2L at UC Davis School of Law, and if you are in town and want a tour or to sit on some classes just pm me.
*edited for grammer
I read that playing sudoku could help you in changing your way of thinking for LSAT questions. Something about logical reasoning and the like. I'm definitely going to watch out not to burn out a month into my study plan. I'll take things in moderation because I have so much time till my exam.
As for what kind of law, I haven't looked into it too much. I'm more concentrated on getting my LSATs in order. However, I do want to represent clients in court or hearings, and I want to work in a firm as opposed to working for the government.
I will graduate with a 3.2 GPA, unsure what my LSAC GPA will be, hopefully not lower than 3.2 at least. So my only redeeming factor will have to be my LSAT score. I'm definitely gunning for 175-180, which is a good dream to have and to keep me motivated. I know the LSAT will determine much of my life and career, and because it's one of the only things I can control right now, I will do everything I can to reach my goal. =]
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On March 02 2010 03:17 Xeris wrote:
Damn man I was going to make a blog exactly like this, we are in the same boat my friend. They have 30+ old LSAT tests available to buy, you should look into those.
I only bought the bibles just as extra practice problems.
Yea, I bought those bibles for the same reason. Basically, I will eat, breath, and sleep LSAT over the summer.
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CA10825 Posts
i'll be doing a similar thing starting this summer, except with the MCAT
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Ain't trying to dirt on you or nothing dude, but you do know that 180 is a perfect score, right? Just putting it into perspective man, cuz you'll never be satisfied with that, haha. Even a 170 would be like 95 percentile or something absurd.
If you're intelligent and diligent about your studies, 160+ is certainly attainable, and that will get you going places. Personally, I wanted to hit 165, but my score is perfectly acceptable to me. I beat most of my friends, cept for a genius who goes to UPenn =p
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So why did all of you law-students go into law?
I'm considering it but my only reason so far is that I decided I'm not cut out to be a scientist (that, and the LSAT questions look kinda fun).
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On March 02 2010 05:14 Hawk wrote:
Ain't trying to dirt on you or nothing dude, but you do know that 180 is a perfect score, right? Just putting it into perspective man, cuz you'll never be satisfied with that, haha. Even a 170 would be like 95 percentile or something absurd.
Yea I know, but I'll be studying like I'm going for 180. Then whatever score I get I will know I did the best I could.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On March 02 2010 03:22 TOloseGT wrote:
I will graduate with a 3.2 GPA, unsure what my LSAC GPA will be, hopefully not lower than 3.2 at least. So my only redeeming factor will have to be my LSAT score. I'm definitely gunning for 175-180, which is a good dream to have and to keep me motivated. I know the LSAT will determine much of my life and career, and because it's one of the only things I can control right now, I will do everything I can to reach my goal. =]
175 is really, really high. Like Stanford-Yale-Harvard high, though I think your GPA basically eliminates you from being able to get into those schools (you need a 3.7+). 3.2 probably puts a big hurt on your chances to get into the top tier 1 schools too, but if you score 175+ you definitely have a shot. Where are you graduating from? If you're not aiming at top 15 schools, you certainly don't need a 175.
You should take a practice test and then set your goals accordingly. Just picking a number out like 175-180 is not wise. While it's nice to set high goals, you're setting yourself up to fail if it's not realistic. Take the practice test, then set a goal a few points higher. This is because practice tests are usually easier and under less pressured conditions -- almost everyone I know got a worse score on the actual test than the practice ones. For example, I scored a 168 on my first practice test, and I took 20 full practice tests over four weeks to prepare for the LSAT. By the last few days of prep, I was scoring 174-176 on every practice test (the last 3-4 I took). I took the test, thought I did the best I could, and got a 170.
On March 02 2010 05:14 Hawk wrote:
Ain't trying to dirt on you or nothing dude, but you do know that 180 is a perfect score, right? Just putting it into perspective man, cuz you'll never be satisfied with that, haha. Even a 170 would be like 95 percentile or something absurd.
170 is 98th percentile, 175 is 99.5 percentile, 178 or higher is 99.9 usually. If you haven't been testing in a comparative percentile your entire life (for instance, scoring in the high 90th percentiles on SAT/GRE) then I wouldn't really expect to get a 175, it is kind of unrealistic. For me personally, I'd almost always get 800 verbal on SATs/GREs, and I practiced like crazy for the LSAT, and I wasn't even close to the perfect 180.
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I would have to agree with Hot_Bid, this test isn't like the SAT which I am sure most of you aced or did pretty well on. I also had a crappy gpa comparatively to the other people who are applying to law school (also a 3.2). I thought I had a decent shot at much better schools with my LSAT, but my GPA really held me back. The LSAC gpa recalculation takes any class that you retook and gives you the first grade you got. Unlike other graduate schools your resume and written statement really don't meet anything; its purely GPA+LSAT, despite what some school rep will tell you.
On March 02 2010 03:14 Hawk wrote:
SOB, i've heard mixed things about transfering, since law school is very much about networking, that changing in a three year program severely undermines that. Any input??
Nearly all the students in the top 10-15% transfer out, at least at my school. Those kids end up at T14, which beats any networking advantage you would have by staying. I dont know what its like for people transferring up into the top 20's-30's, but we get quite a few transfer students who do this. They end up blending in quite well.
On March 02 2010 05:43 d3_crescentia wrote:
So why did all of you law-students go into law?
I'm considering it but my only reason so far is that I decided I'm not cut out to be a scientist (that, and the LSAT questions look kinda fun).
I am actually going for a similar reason. I was engineering and I picked up an LSAT book at a bookstore. I also kind of fell in love with patent law, which mixes science and law. Its pretty cutting edge and pays pretty well.
Out of curiosity, where are you going to school and what year are you Hot_Bid?
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On March 02 2010 11:43 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
The LSAC gpa recalculation takes any class that you retook and gives you the first grade you got.
I never heard that, but it will surely fuck me =[ My gpa, as crappy as it is now, is only that high because I retook courses that I straight up failed. Ahhhhh.
Such a bitch, because I'm easily 3.0+ if I wasn't a fucking idiot as a freshman
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Braavos36374 Posts
On March 02 2010 11:43 SOB_Maj_Brian wrote:
Out of curiosity, where are you going to school and what year are you Hot_Bid?
I'm a 3L at the University of Michigan.
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Hey guys, just a slight bump. I'm consistently testing around the 170s range, however, I think I've hit a block in RC. My LG and LR have improved dramatically, and I expect I'll slowly become more comfortable with them as I continue on. But my reading comprehension has stayed fairly consistent, -3 to -5 almost always, since I started.
I've done it in two ways:
1) Read the passage first, circling names and boxing those words that indicate a change in direction. Results: -1 to -5, it's all over the place.
2) Reading the questions first and taking note of the phrases and sentences they ask about, focusing more on those parts when I get to reading the whole passage. Results are fairly similar, and most of the time, only two or three questions ask about specific instances in the text, while most of them I need to pick out from the passage as a whole.
I've heard that I should read NYT or WSJ or The Economist, but I feel like my time is better spent actually doing practice tests and going over all my wrong and hard answers. Is there any other tricks you LSAT takers can give me on RC?
Thanks.
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Both Law and Med are graduate entry in america? That's pretty ridiculous. Takes forever to get anywhere in your education system :/.
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Reading Comp was easiest for me, I dunno why...
I really had trouble on logic reasoning, I have a hard time grasping some of the stuff T_T
Logic games were okay, I just need to work on timing
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What I do on RC is I read the passage (dont bother highlighting or anything), then run through the question, I try as hard as I can not to refer back to the passage... when I read it , I go through as quickly as I can, but I make sure to read each line twice in my head before, so it engrains itself. I've found that helps.
I'd suggest just doing LOTS of practices, and practice reading dense stuff (I.E. get a scientific american and read science articles) rapidly then try to summarize it.
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Yea, I've been drilling RC passages the last two days, following what I've recently been doing on the practice tests. Basically just glossing over the details, but making sure I know exactly how the passage is constructed.
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UPDATE:
So took the LSAT this morning. Seriously, FML to the extreme.
I got the LR, LG, RC, LR, LG test, and I had to go to the bathroom for the first LR section. That was not the way I wanted my LSAT to start off. I finished LR in time, but I felt so rushed, and I know when I'm rushed I make dumb ass mistakes. I blazed through the games because that's my best section, although I realized too late for the last LG section, the non-experimental one, that I misread one of the rules, so I know I got at least 1 wrong. It's usually -0 for me on LG, ugh.
My RC is a shitfest. I can't get a good reading on what my score is, because it goes from -2 to -5 every PT. I could only hope that it was the former.
One ray of hope is that on PT 59 + experimental, I got a 173, and I felt sort of the same coming out of that as I did today, maybe a little worse. I can pass that off as test day jitters I guess, as apparently most people think they did shit when they get done.
Anyways, my months of studying are over, I can finally play SC2 without feeling guilty. Although if my score comes back bad, I am definitely retaking. I KNOW I HAVE IT IN ME. BLARGHASDFKLJAG;LKASJDF.
Sorry for that, needed to blow off some steam. I'm gonna take it easy for a while, maybe play with my kitten now, woooo.
Oh, if you guys want more kitten pictures, I has them.
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What is the minimum score you need to be considered competitive? Also, what is the average LSAT score of those who matriculate into law school? What percentile were you scoring in on your practice tests? It feels really good when u finally can stop studying.
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On October 10 2010 13:39 GrayArea wrote:
What is the minimum score you need to be considered competitive? Also, what is the average LSAT score of those who matriculate into law school? What percentile were you scoring in on your practice tests? It feels really good when u finally can stop studying.
I'll consider anything above 170 to be competitive, anything less and I'm retaking. I think I heard from somewhere that LSAC makes it so the average LSAT score is always around a 150 or so, as the range is from 120 to 180.
I started at 160, and my final PT was a 173, so I jumped from around the 90th percentile to the 97-98th percentile I believe. It was so freaking hard to improve just 1 damned point, ugh. I'm still having doubts on my actual test though. I think I can improve a lot more in the next two months for the December test, because my greatest jump in score, from like 168 max to constantly lower 170s was in my last two weeks of studying.
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On October 15 2010 15:36 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 13:39 GrayArea wrote:
What is the minimum score you need to be considered competitive? Also, what is the average LSAT score of those who matriculate into law school? What percentile were you scoring in on your practice tests? It feels really good when u finally can stop studying. I'll consider anything above 170 to be competitive, anything less and I'm retaking. I think I heard from somewhere that LSAC makes it so the average LSAT score is always around a 150 or so, as the range is from 120 to 180. I started at 160, and my final PT was a 173, so I jumped from around the 90th percentile to the 97-98th percentile I believe. It was so freaking hard to improve just 1 damned point, ugh. I'm still having doubts on my actual test though. I think I can improve a lot more in the next two months for the December test, because my greatest jump in score, from like 168 max to constantly lower 170s was in my last two weeks of studying.
I was getting >170 on all my PTs, timed and everything, and I ended up with a 165 (92nd percentile) on the LSAT :/ Fortunately in Canada all law schools are pretty much the same, there isn't a tier system like in the U.S., and 165 is plenty good with a decent GPA.
Also, different law schools apply different equations to determine your application value. For instance, one school I applied to weighted it:
30% LSAT, 70% GPA over 4 years of undergrad.
another weighted it
50% LSAT, 50% GPA over last 2 years of undergrad minus your 2 worst classes.
How important a high LSAT mark is changes depending on these equations.
Schools also give your application value a boost depending on certain extracurricular and work experiences you have had. "Holistic" schools, as some like to call them, give a greater value to graduate degrees, PHDs and work experience than non-holistic schools. My law class (University of Calgary) is like, 5% medical PHDs and 50% graduate degrees, average age around 25-26 for first years. At a holistic law school LSAT is less important - I had a friend with a higher GPA and much higher LSAT than me (172) but U of Calgary rejected her application while accepting mine, presumably because she had no work or volunteer experience at all. However, she got into a slew of other schools which based their admittances primarily on LSAT and GPA.
So how "competitive" your LSAT marks are depends on a LOT of things; if you have great other additions to your application, an LSAT mark of 160 may be competitive to get into the schools you want.
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what did you end up gettign? O_O
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Braavos36374 Posts
in my experience your actual test day score is lower than what you practiced, i was averaging 173-175 on my last 5-7 practice tests and scored 170 and i consider myself pretty lucky on the test (proctor accidentally gave us an extra 5 minutes on a section i was behind in)
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This test really fucks you up. One day I feel like I did well, the next I feel like I bombed it. Nothing else has made me this anxious. I will hopefully know my score tomorrow afternoon.
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Got my score, 165. It's definitely better than I expected, because I just felt terrible coming out of the test. It's a disappointing score though, judging from my PTs. Going for the retake, and hopefully in December I won't have to use the restroom during a section, fuck that threw me off.
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On October 30 2010 13:51 TOloseGT wrote:
Got my score, 165. It's definitely better than I expected, because I just felt terrible coming out of the test. It's a disappointing score though, judging from my PTs. Going for the retake, and hopefully in December I won't have to use the restroom during a section, fuck that threw me off.
What's your GPA? You can get into law schools with a 165 supposedly, with a good GPA like 3.8-4.0, just not the best schools.
I'm planning to write the LSAT this summer, probably June. How long do you guys typically study for it? What is the best method, I know getting a bunch of old official practice tests is good but for someone with a science background, should I be reading anything else to prepare for the type of thinking and writing on the LSAT?
How difficult is the writing sample compared to the multiple choice? How do you practice the writing sample?
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EPT
