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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 27 2013 18:00 GMT
#35
/in
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 27 2013 23:06 GMT
#57
On May 28 2013 07:09 Promethelax wrote:
Rng says 14


Did you reroll 14 because that's what you got last time
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 27 2013 23:12 GMT
#60
RNG says: gtpM61/SG48=
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 31 2013 20:24 GMT
#103
/out

Too much piling up
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 31 2013 20:27 GMT
#104
lolnope

/in
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 04 2013 02:01 GMT
#159
Hot damn. This is the first game where I've either played with everyone on the list or been in a game hosted by them.

Except for Vayne. Never played with Vayne before

OCD tiem

##Vote: VayneAuthority
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 04 2013 02:09 GMT
#165
On May 28 2013 11:39 Ace wrote:
Yes that's the thing - there are no counter claims. Scum can't CC in the setup because the roles won't be taken from the pool. Scum lose a powerful option to stopping the Town here. Every claim is taken at face value now because the Town does not care if it is Scum making it - the role still lives on.

If roles can be lynched Scum at least have the option of counter claiming Cops or Doctors. The game can hit "follow the cop" scenario once Scum KP = 1. Without 5 or more Scum that isn't a far-fetched scenario.

ETA: Game breaking scenarios:

Once Scum KP hits 1 the Cop claims. Medic protects him. Roleblocker claims.

A.) The Scum team can't hit the cop so they are left with looking for the doctor. Since the roles are random every night they have to get lucky and hope they get doctor themselves. There are no good power role hunting heuristics available since who gets the doctor role switches all the time. Scum clearly don't want to kill the roleblocker with only 1 KP as they lose the potential to stop a claimed Cop. They are at the mercy of the RNG heavily.

Every day the Town tells the Doctor to claim. If the Doctor does not claim they know one of the people not claiming was Scum. This is the only option they have to deal with the Cop - pure RNG of getting the role. Otherwise the cop is unstoppable.

B.) With the roleblocker claiming they can choose to RB anyone but the Cop. A roleblocked Cop = roleblocker is Scum. So that option is out of play for them. Scum would need to get roleblocker, hit the medic and shoot the cop most likely through random investigation with their RoleCop. Once again they are at the mercy of the RNG.

No matter what path it takes the Town can ignore the RNG and have everyone claim as it is the most ProTown thing to do. The Scum team's options are limited. Without help from the RNG its a game of numbers.


So what happens in scenario A when the doctor doesn't claim? If everyone plays innocent we have a dead cop and still hidden mafia. Same in B, if mafia RB'd the cop.

I.E. we know there's a scum holding the role but we don't know who is holding it and is therefore scum, hence it doesn't break the game.

Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 04 2013 02:10 GMT
#166
On June 04 2013 11:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 11:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hot damn. This is the first game where I've either played with everyone on the list or been in a game hosted by them.

Except for Vayne. Never played with Vayne before

OCD tiem

##Vote: VayneAuthority

Or me...?


Could've sworm I played with you before
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 04 2013 02:30 GMT
#173
On June 04 2013 11:16 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 11:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On May 28 2013 11:39 Ace wrote:
Yes that's the thing - there are no counter claims. Scum can't CC in the setup because the roles won't be taken from the pool. Scum lose a powerful option to stopping the Town here. Every claim is taken at face value now because the Town does not care if it is Scum making it - the role still lives on.

If roles can be lynched Scum at least have the option of counter claiming Cops or Doctors. The game can hit "follow the cop" scenario once Scum KP = 1. Without 5 or more Scum that isn't a far-fetched scenario.

ETA: Game breaking scenarios:

Once Scum KP hits 1 the Cop claims. Medic protects him. Roleblocker claims.

A.) The Scum team can't hit the cop so they are left with looking for the doctor. Since the roles are random every night they have to get lucky and hope they get doctor themselves. There are no good power role hunting heuristics available since who gets the doctor role switches all the time. Scum clearly don't want to kill the roleblocker with only 1 KP as they lose the potential to stop a claimed Cop. They are at the mercy of the RNG heavily.

Every day the Town tells the Doctor to claim. If the Doctor does not claim they know one of the people not claiming was Scum. This is the only option they have to deal with the Cop - pure RNG of getting the role. Otherwise the cop is unstoppable.

B.) With the roleblocker claiming they can choose to RB anyone but the Cop. A roleblocked Cop = roleblocker is Scum. So that option is out of play for them. Scum would need to get roleblocker, hit the medic and shoot the cop most likely through random investigation with their RoleCop. Once again they are at the mercy of the RNG.

No matter what path it takes the Town can ignore the RNG and have everyone claim as it is the most ProTown thing to do. The Scum team's options are limited. Without help from the RNG its a game of numbers.


So what happens in scenario A when the doctor doesn't claim? If everyone plays innocent we have a dead cop and still hidden mafia. Same in B, if mafia RB'd the cop.

I.E. we know there's a scum holding the role but we don't know who is holding it and is therefore scum, hence it doesn't break the game.



It wouldn't kill us outright but it would be an anti-town move not to do so. Especially if a hit is stopped. If no one claims we'll just take the actual claimers as more likely Town than not. But once again it would be really stupid of us not to claim.

If Scum RB cop same thing - we just have a narrower pool of suspects to look at. We'll take that small win in a random bad scenario happening every time.



But it wouldn't be gamebreaking like you said it would be. Hypothetically if I'm scum and me or my other scum (since 2 scum = 1 KP) roll the Doctor, we can shoot the Cop, and if we play as townily as possible we can claim either of the other roles later on and play along with town plan. Assuming we can survive the day we shoot the cop, we simply blend in afterwards and win by pure attrition.

I agree that claiming does help town, but scum can still pull the situation to their advantage and win so it helps them a bit too.

Guess it all comes down to the RNG after all. Greater probability of townies getting X role, so I guess it does benefit town after all.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 04 2013 21:51 GMT
#267
WoS seems like someone suitable for sheeping

##Unvote
##Vote: WaveofShadow
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 02:03 GMT
#305
I had problems with his lurker policy lynching (goes against my best interests, I lurk with pride) as well as asking people whether his play was scummy or not.

His reply was this:

Town motivation was literally asking questions of people to try and divine their alignment. Knowing how both JJD and Vayne played scum last game, I was curious if their answers towards my questions would help me figure out anything about the way they would be playing this game. If you choose to ignore this point then that's your prerogative. As far as new things brought, I brought plenty of new things to the table, including the suspicion and discussion towards me. Any discussion is good discussion on D1 even if the subject is somewhat misguided; it will allow people to get reads of me, with which I am fine. I consider my own townplay perfectly good and accomplishing exactly what I have set out to do, whilst being completely transparent in my thought processes in the meantime.


Basically he's saying that by accusing him it stirs up discussion. But why? If attention is on him, as town it's crappy play because it distracts others from finding scum, and as scum he can WIFOM his way to finding a different lynch target.

I don't think perfectly good townplay involves painting yourself red to see who comes out of the woodwork.

This is where Zeph comes in to push WoS's intentions and WoS retorts that it's scummy to lynch him after he's explained his motivations. I find his motivations scummy however, hence I want to lynch him.

Of course, WoS, I would be more than happy to see some of your scumreads and a FOS if it is too early to place a vote on someone.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 09:34 GMT
#328
On June 05 2013 15:29 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 15:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
WHY NOT FUCKING ACE GUYS.

SERIOUSLY.


because hes useful if he decides to try later, no point mislynching him when there's a good chance mafia will kill him for us if he's not scum.


Mafia wouldn't kill him just because he's a vet. There's actual townies to shoot. What the hell kind of reasoning is this.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 12:35 GMT
#336
What do you all think of Oats? He's been tunneling Ace on the following evidence:

Ace tooots scum
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 13:03 GMT
#340
Wait did you just accuse him of being scum and then defend him in the same post
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 15:16 GMT
#383
OK first off the Vayne vote was a joke. That much should be obvious.

I was wrong about WoS being a scum given his more recent posting. He seems to be more focused on finding scum now that D1 is in full swing.

So now we have Oats who has little content and sheeps anyone who isn't Ace. And Ace doesn't even look scum.

[##Unvote]
[##Vote Oatsmaster]
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 19:05 GMT
#460
Rayn are you setting me up for the fall here? Of all your scumreads you fail to mention me at all except once in passing.

If you flip red, this behavior would make perfect sense. Pretty much guarantee a mislynch to go through the next day.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 19:05 GMT
#462
Didn't see Jay's post, reading now
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 19:29 GMT
#466
On June 06 2013 04:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Didn't see Jay's post, reading now


Actually I guess I prematurely answered it since I was accusing rayn of his behavior while jay was typing his post.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 19:34 GMT
#467
On June 05 2013 14:07 slOosh wrote:
Ok, time for updates of thoughts before going to sleep.


Who I want to lynch: [UoN]Sentinel

I think his approach to Ace's claim post was skewed. Why bother pointing out that the plan is not as gamebreaking as it initially seemed? He questions the plan, but doesn't offer up why it is detrimental to agree to it, nor does he offer a better plan as an alternative. Seems more likely an approach scum would take rather than town.

I don't have a better one, and it's decent but not as good as Ace implies. I don't want to blindly invest in a fallible plan, but it is still a good starting point to finishing the game in favor of town.

He voting for WoS is weak.
1) WoS wants to lynch a lurker. Sentinel is a lurker so he doesn't like this. Nothing here that indicates WoS is scum.

I am a lurker and I am town. I want to avoid a mislynch and I would also like to live, hence I am upset.

2) WoS doesn't ask people if he is scummy, he asks a couple of players who recently played scum with him what their opinion of his play is.

Which is a scummy thing to do. You don't ask other people of the quality of one's play. It's like probing the water to see how good one's disguise is.

3) It is a very uninvested vote. He doesn't express a desire to get WoS lynched (only provides explanation for the sake of himself, not to convince others to vote him), and neglects to talk about any other suspects.

##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel


Couldn't find any at the moment. Right now there's Oats' crap posting and maybe I'll side along with the rayn vote because I don't like how he's ignoring me. Actually it's funny because I was ignoring him too. Makes me a hypocrite I guess.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
June 05 2013 20:04 GMT
#472
Whether or not I sheep rayne my vote will look scummy.

Going with my gut I guess.

##unvote
##vote: raynpelikoneet
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
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