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ZvZ, how to counter six pool

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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graphene
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland211 Posts
May 31 2010 04:57 GMT
#1
I tend to loose to cheesy 6 pools and I'm not a cheese player, can anyone give me some advices on how to do this. If I 14 pool will i 100% loose?

He brings 6 lings and 2 drones for spines.

thank u
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L6-636536
Profile Joined May 2010
United States94 Posts
May 31 2010 05:05 GMT
#2
12 pool queen 2x spine crawaler its obvious if hes going to swarm you especially with ZvZ You'll always see it comming and your economy will be strong enough to support a 2 or even a 3x spinecrawler defense Especially if your throw your queen and crawlers with only a 3 ling gap so that the zerglings simply get overpowered and btw you should never 14 pool 0.o ZvZ and hopefully your doing double extractor trick.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
May 31 2010 05:08 GMT
#3
14pool may be pushing it, you should generally 13pool each game to be safe. Pull seven or eight drones to fight off spine crawlers (as soon as they start building) and stall until your zerglings pop, then fight with drones/zerglings. Try to micro away hurt drones to keep them alive. You'll win every time.
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BigDatez
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada434 Posts
May 31 2010 05:10 GMT
#4
Scout earlier (especially on smaller maps)
I scout on 9 currently, and can get to the opponent on most 2 player maps as i'm getting my 3 drones after my ovie. If i see a 6pool, i go for a 10pool. If i see a 10/11 pool, i go for my 13 extract, 13 pool. Works real well!
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Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
May 31 2010 05:25 GMT
#5
On May 31 2010 14:05 L6-636536 wrote:
12 pool queen 2x spine crawaler its obvious if hes going to swarm you especially with ZvZ You'll always see it comming and your economy will be strong enough to support a 2 or even a 3x spinecrawler defense Especially if your throw your queen and crawlers with only a 3 ling gap so that the zerglings simply get overpowered and btw you should never 14 pool 0.o ZvZ and hopefully your doing double extractor trick.


You should never 14pool? That's pretty standard dude. In fact, Idra, arguably the best SC2 Zerg player in the world right now, goes for 15pool almost every game.
L6-636536
Profile Joined May 2010
United States94 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 05:32:00
May 31 2010 05:31 GMT
#6
14 pool zvz?
flyinfart
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States95 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 05:36:24
May 31 2010 05:36 GMT
#7
14pool is awful in ZvZ. If you want to counter 6pool, go 9-10pool and play defensively. If you scout that they aren't going 6pool, then put on some aggression. ZvZ is a very fast match up. If you don't like it, don't play.
utaki
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada42 Posts
May 31 2010 05:44 GMT
#8
What I always do is build a spinecrawlers in my mineral line early game so that 6 pool is not that effective.
Azerbaijan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States660 Posts
May 31 2010 05:50 GMT
#9
On May 31 2010 14:44 utaki wrote:
What I always do is build a spinecrawlers in my mineral line early game so that 6 pool is not that effective.


Depends on when you pool, If you 14 pool like the OP you will already be in trouble by the time you start morphing the crawler.
FC.Strike
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States621 Posts
May 31 2010 05:50 GMT
#10
Do you guys have any idea what you're talking about? Pros go 14/15 pool or even 15 hatch 14 pool all the time, even on smaller maps. Go look for the 17173 world cup VoDs and check out Dimaga's games, they never went for a pool any earlier than 14.

Now I personally have no idea how to stop a 6 or 7 pool with a 14 pool or a 15 hatch 14 pool, I prefer to go 8 pool on small maps and 13 pool on large maps. Maybe I just lack the micro necessary to pull off a 14 pool like the pros can, or maybe they just assume they aren't going to get 7 pooled (although I'm sure if 7 pool beat macro builds, they would do it all the time).
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Gescom
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada3516 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 06:05:56
May 31 2010 06:05 GMT
#11
Pros also never 6 pool. Generally speaking you can get away with +2-3 drones and then just throw up 2 spine crawlers and match their zergling count. You will always have the advantage with the defense because of the queen and extra units due to travel time. If you scout an early pool when it starts it's impossible to lose if you react properly.

I generally scout at 10.
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Azerbaijan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States660 Posts
May 31 2010 06:07 GMT
#12
On May 31 2010 14:50 FC.Strike wrote:
Do you guys have any idea what you're talking about? Pros go 14/15 pool or even 15 hatch 14 pool all the time, even on smaller maps. Go look for the 17173 world cup VoDs and check out Dimaga's games, they never went for a pool any earlier than 14.

Now I personally have no idea how to stop a 6 or 7 pool with a 14 pool or a 15 hatch 14 pool, I prefer to go 8 pool on small maps and 13 pool on large maps. Maybe I just lack the micro necessary to pull off a 14 pool like the pros can, or maybe they just assume they aren't going to get 7 pooled (although I'm sure if 7 pool beat macro builds, they would do it all the time).


Of course Pros can do that, they are pros. The rest of us are forced to play safer as we cannot rely on flawless micro to keep us alive in that kind of a situation.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
May 31 2010 06:08 GMT
#13
pull all drones and attack zerglings first. if he runs away attack crawlers. youll have more than enough drones to defend and your lings will arrive soon after. you may or may not need to drop spine crawlers of your own, most likely not
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warshop
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada490 Posts
May 31 2010 06:12 GMT
#14
In my opinion, you should be able to stop it with a 12-13 pool on smaller maps and 14 pool in larger map.
pyr0ma5ta
Profile Joined May 2010
United States458 Posts
May 31 2010 06:13 GMT
#15
You counter 6 pool by not getting greedy with 14 pool. :|
"I made you a zergling, but I eated it." - Defiler
aGenda
Profile Joined May 2010
2 Posts
May 31 2010 06:25 GMT
#16
~13 drones can beat 6 lings especially if you move them first so they stack on top of each other. The key is not to over-react and start spamming zerglings, which will hurt your economy (unless you see him continuing to pour units into your base).
NeoLearner
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Belgium1847 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 10:38:05
May 31 2010 06:34 GMT
#17
Isn't 14 pool 15 hatch as close to a BO loss as you can get against 6 pool...

I normally go 12 pool, 14 lord, save larvae and mins to make a queen and 6 zerglings right when pool is finished.
I checked the timings on this Vs 6 pool and on maps with a decent rush distance (= not Steppes or Incineration) your zerglings will finish about when 6 pool lings arrive. So it is save enough for my blood.
It's a micro battle. I saw a VOD of this, I think it was Idra Vs GerrardPrime. Had some nice micro, trying to surround the crawler while not loosing any lings.
I THINK it was this one, but I'm not sure and I'm at work so I can't check...


EDIT: Typo
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IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
May 31 2010 06:37 GMT
#18
15 pool defends 6 pool just fine, anything 14 and earlier rapes it. do what zelniq said.
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Gorgazm
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia32 Posts
May 31 2010 06:49 GMT
#19
this is something i've been struggling with, i generally go 13 extractor and 13 pool, yet i got over-run by a 9 pool last night.

was it just teh case of me not micro'ing my drones well enough?

i'm wondering if against Z i should opt for an earlier pool
Alsn
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden995 Posts
June 01 2010 01:57 GMT
#20
On May 31 2010 15:49 Gorgazm wrote:
this is something i've been struggling with, i generally go 13 extractor and 13 pool, yet i got over-run by a 9 pool last night.

was it just teh case of me not micro'ing my drones well enough?

i'm wondering if against Z i should opt for an earlier pool
You simply should not be overrun by a 9pool. The only possible way that can happen is if your micro is absolutely horrendous or you don't bother to scout at all(hint, don't make more drones if you scout an early pool).
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