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maximuspita
1093 Posts
On June 15 2012 21:36 figq wrote: I keep wondering how long will it take for Starcraft fans to recognize the true BW killer, which isn't SC2, but LoL. The true killer was Blizzard's team of lawyers after Savior's betrayal. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On June 15 2012 21:36 figq wrote: I keep wondering how long will it take for Starcraft fans to recognize the true BW killer, which isn't SC2, but LoL. It's actually Kpop. Most people refuse to see it, but I can confidently tell you that Kpop definitely played a part in it. | ||
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nighcol
298 Posts
On June 15 2012 20:50 maximuspita wrote: BW pros aren't expect to dominate any longer. Years of training in BW do not strongly correlate with dominating in SCToo today and that should be patently obvious. The elephant in the room was only relevant when the GSL Code S players were still terrible and making mistakes which was over a year ago. It was never relevant because, as you can see, the BW pros have to have their own learning time with the game even when they can look at the current SC2 pros and see how it's supposed to be played. Still, I'd bet a lot more on them having what it takes to be at the top in SC2 than in LoL. | ||
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maximuspita
1093 Posts
On June 15 2012 23:19 nighcol wrote: It was never relevant because, as you can see, the BW pros have to have their own learning time with the game even when they can look at the current SC2 pros and see how it's supposed to be played. What? Do you even understand what the Elephant in the Room article tried to imply? Still, I'd bet a lot more on them having what it takes to be at the top in SC2 than in LoL. In case you aren't noticing, many would be promising BW up and comers who missed out on jumping ship two years ago like MC, Ganzi, MMA, etc are retiring from their soon-to-be-playing-SCtoo teams. Yes, it is true if they were good(an understatement) at BW then they would probably be good at SCtoo. But, right now it isn't any different from saying they would also be good at the piano because of their keyboard skills. Expect more retirements. | ||
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S2Glow
Singapore1042 Posts
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
/as a side note, they even call their wiki "Leaguepedia", how far can they go with the mimicry of established brands/ | ||
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Gescom
Canada3516 Posts
On June 16 2012 04:33 SpeaKEaSY wrote: Hyuk to become a coach? I wonder how long this will last considering the SC2 transition. Just the playing captain. He played this same role in 2011. | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
That was unexpected. and ggaemo too? wtf | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On June 16 2012 04:56 figq wrote: Yes, I am. Isn't it obvious that it was LoL that pushed aside both BW and SC2 actually. If not for LoL, there were going to still be BW leagues on OGN. But the share of RTS in Korea shrunk drastically with the invasion of LoL, and so BW was forced out, urgently. LoL also accumulated and keeps accumulating legendary champions from BW and SC2. /as a side note, they even call their wiki "Leaguepedia", how far can they go with the mimicry of established brands/ Professional BW collapsed because of a few reasons: match-fixing, IP lawsuits, and the release of SCToo. This created a toxic, volatile environment in BW that chased away all outside sponsors and caused some major ones (Hwaseung and MBC, for example) to pull the plug on their teams. This was WAY BEFORE LoL came into Korea. Stop trying to put the blame on LoL and Riot when they're not to blame. If you're just butthurt because LoL is becoming huge in Korea while SC2 has been stagnant, then take a good long look at what Blizzard did wrong and what Riot did right in Korea. Your "side note" is completely invalid because every so-called "wiki" out there, including liquipedia, are just specializations of the real wikipedia. Everyone's guilty of mimicry, by your twisted logic. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10569 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On June 16 2012 04:56 figq wrote: Yes, I am. Isn't it obvious that it was LoL that pushed aside both BW and SC2 actually. If not for LoL, there were going to still be BW leagues on OGN. But the share of RTS in Korea shrunk drastically with the invasion of LoL, and so BW was forced out, urgently. LoL also accumulated and keeps accumulating legendary champions from BW and SC2. It's a little more complicated than that. LoL is getting big in the foreign scene, and easily surpasses SC2 in Korea, but SC2 is a much more intuitive transition for BW players. If BW would switch to LoL, it might as well switch to Halo, because LoL has next to nothing to do with BW. I wouldn't say that LoL "pushed BW aside", though. What killed BW was primarily Savior. Not just because he tarnished the legacy etc., but because most of the people involved in the scandal were up and comers. The BW scene stagnated for a really long time as a result. Flash has been a Bonjwa longer than the other four combined, I think. When I came back to BW after a long hiatus in SC2 land, the only name I didn't recognize was Soulkey. The IP lawsuits and SC2 didn't matter that much, in the grand scheme of things, but it also didn't help. On June 16 2012 05:12 jpak wrote:If you're just butthurt because LoL is becoming huge in Korea while SC2 has been stagnant, then take a good long look at what Blizzard did wrong and what Riot did right in Korea. Riot had a game with a F2P model and fronted the prize money for tournaments themselves. (Indeed, this is why MLG doesn't carry Dota) Blizzard had a game with a standard "buy it" model (though, honestly, F2P Starcraft would be horrifically bad), and didn't care about the professional scene at all for about a year beyond going "e-sports!" on occasion. There was definitely some ball-dropping from Blizz there. In fairness, when LoL came out the Western "e-sports" scene had appeared and it made more sense to cater to it. Blizz only cared about pro SC2 because "Koreans love Starcraft!" is a meme. I think everyone's going to have to step their game up, though, as the competition for a good Pro Game is getting more heated. I sincerely think a legitimate successor to BW is going to arise in the next 5 years or so. There's so much more reward for it now, that everyone's going to try. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On June 16 2012 06:42 Ribbon wrote: Riot had a game with a F2P model and fronted the prize money for tournaments themselves. (Indeed, this is why MLG doesn't carry Dota) Blizzard had a game with a standard "buy it" model (though, honestly, F2P Starcraft would be horrifically bad), and didn't care about the professional scene at all for about a year beyond going "e-sports!" on occasion. There was definitely some ball-dropping from Blizz there. In fairness, when LoL came out the Western "e-sports" scene had appeared and it made more sense to cater to it. Blizz only cared about pro SC2 because "Koreans love Starcraft!" is a meme. I think everyone's going to have to step their game up, though, as the competition for a good Pro Game is getting more heated. I sincerely think a legitimate successor to BW is going to arise in the next 5 years or so. There's so much more reward for it now, that everyone's going to try. I will just say one thing: PC Bangs. PC Bangs are at the center of Korean gaming and Blizzard screwed up big time by alienating them in the beginning of SC2. Riot, on the other hand, catered to them by having everything unlocked when someone plays in a Korean PC Bang. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On June 16 2012 07:17 jpak wrote: I will just say one thing: PC Bangs. PC Bangs are at the center of Korean gaming and Blizzard screwed up big time by alienating them in the beginning of SC2. Riot, on the other hand, catered to them by having everything unlocked when someone plays in a Korean PC Bang. There's that as well. I sincerely think Blizz legitimately did not care about competitive SC2 and were only giving it lip service until after it got big in the foreign scene and they realized there was money in it. Riot is investing HARD in the eSports scene. They want to prevent Dota2 from ever getting off the ground, and they're willing to pour resources into it now to reap the rewards later. SC2 was not intended to be pro-friendly when it came out (SC2 fans can remember maps like Steppes of War being in the game for the explicit reason of being appealing to casuals, and Blizz wanting tiny rush maps in the pool for like a year because casuals wanted it). And, obviously, free-to-play games = piracy not really a concern = LAN, which is a huge advantage. The only "e-Sport" feature SC2 has going for it is replay copying AI in HOTS (where you load a replay of a pro doing a build, and you can have the computer do that build so you can practice against it). Which is a fucking awesome idea LoL and the rest should steal, but not really enough. Dota2, as far as I can tell, is just trying to be a good game. I don't think that's actually enough anymore either. It doesn't matter if Dota2 is better than LoL or not, because Riot pays MLG to have tournaments and Valve doesn't. SC2, if it wants to survive, needs to focus on being a better game. HOTS is a step in the right direction (oracle is good. Viper is good. Tempest seems bad, but it'll make your army more spread out and less "ball"y, so I'm okay with it), but there needs to be more. Right now, in terms of how seriously they're taking the eSports scene and making a good pro game, Riot >>>>>>Blizzard now > Valve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blizzard at the launch of SC2 | ||
GTR
51699 Posts
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On June 24 2012 00:28 GTR wrote: Yesterday, Calm announced he would switch from Terran to Zerg for SC2. Could you link it so I have a source for Liquipedia? Thanks <3 | ||
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Piste
6184 Posts
thanks in advance! | ||
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On June 25 2012 03:05 Piste wrote: I'm too lazy to find out myself this, but has there been announcement for how long will BW be part of proleague? thanks in advance! Yes there has been, this is the last season with Broodwar in it IIRC. | ||
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Piste
6184 Posts
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GTR
51699 Posts
On June 25 2012 02:30 Epoxide wrote: Could you link it so I have a source for Liquipedia? Thanks <3 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=62350 | ||
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