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My thoughts as I read the thread from the game's beginning:
LSB {http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902462)
Neutral read, can see this post coming out from either side.
Advocates going for scummy/inactive people and suggest Merlin is abstain vote, which is definitely not useful at all as he helpfully suggests since there is no medic in this setup.
I'Ill also throw in thought process of mine, since I was staunchest supporter of King voting system I believe that Kingmaker has to be one of those who supported it in thread. Unlike mafia, Kingmaker does not have to WIFOM about picking his target since even if he is found out and killed, another will simply be nominated in its place- and because his role is not claimable, there is no reason for him to try to keep his identity hidden via picking someone who went against the idea he stated in the thread. So +1 potential townie brownie point in my mind for anyone who supported this idea from beginning to end, that on my mind time to continue...
Okay, saw his followup post and I am definitely more concerned. Greater weight on going for inactive, but that's always common theme in TL, what alarms me is
A) Lynch a scummy person. Take a look at Team Micro Mafia II, they found both scums day 1
B) Use Merlin. This would be like an abstain. If there are no inactives and no one is scummy, it's a good idea to use Merlin
idk seems to put pretty little weight on lynching scummy player option, and his wording just seem too ambiguous to me. Also I have no idea why he advocates the use of Merlin which is clearly anti-town. I think someone pointed this out already, so looking forward to his response I guess. Only minor thing going for him is that he supports king having no autonomy at all.
Pandain (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902525)
I am looking forward to how you behave when day begins.
Next post details details him taking the position FOR king autonomy  Btw didn't someone vote for amber[light] thinking he was the first to push for the king autonomy?
Pandain and DoctorHelvetica disagreeing with my thoughts, I respect their opinions but meh =/ Pandain really was going for King autonomy wasn't he? Then he agrees with Merlin d1? WTF? -1 townie point.
NIGHT 0 STARTS
Pandain starts out with RV following his previous post I guess, LSB suggets king should claim upon nomination, orgolove agrees, LSB going for town credibility? Here he solidifies his opinion about inactive lynch.
orgolove (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902760)
Agrees with majority lynch, also feels like "no red king" paragraph is kinda forced in my opinion, possibly for townie points. Honestly I wish DrH (or nominated king d1) had been scum b/c if we mislynch today kingmaker is going to have peachy time trying to select 1 townie out of 3.
BrownBear (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902855) argues for going for scummy player, LSB goes against. My playstyle preference maybe but not looking at LSB positively for moment. The difference in opinions nonwithstanding, why list the possibilities and state as if you are not really against them at the beginning?
I still like BrownBear, but he does argue for partial king autonomy so I am scratching him off the kingmaker list especially since he states that king should have high activity, and that is anything but me. Doesn't mean he is not town though.
Pandain (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902919) might be trying to get away with d1 by RVing everyone here. If he does not contribute anything else by the time I finish this, I am so voting him. In mafiascum someone blatantly announcing he was pressure voting without any other reasoning was always good scum tell.
LSB (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902974) also states that abstain is good idea, and says in same post that town only have three lynches. wth.
Amber[Light] (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902983)
His first posts, starts with support for king autonomy (maybe the voters reason was "bandwagoning" not "being the first to propose" it. Still itchy reason. Probably will look hard over that vote when I get to it). States that relics are useless, obviously, and this last sentence confuses me:
If we really aren't okay with someone being killed for Day 1 we should use the ability to gain some possible intel. It's not a guarantee but it will give us a better start for day 2.
Holy god, this is going to take long time. Posting this partial segment before I start day 1. I currently do not like Pandain at all, and minor fos on LSB. Only time (hopefully only few more hours) will tell whether I stick to this opinion.
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Are you kidding me? Pressure voting is always good. Would you rather have people not talk at all? I always do this.
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As for merlin, I wasn't aware it counts as an action. I thought we could use it as well as an execution.
That's why I asked how merlin affect mislynches, because I was confused.
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DAY 1 STARTS
F*** this, I am NOT going to discuss individual posts. I lack too much patience for that.
orgolove-Amber[Light] twit twat
While I agree with generic content of the post that started this, attack on Amber[LighT] feels bit stretched considering lot other people besides him unanimously agreeed Excalibur was useless before you spoke up. I still do not understand Amber[LighT]'s last sentence, and I equally do not understand what orgolove is attacking him on, but if what amber says is what I think he is saying ("we should use excalibur d1") then yeah, -1 townie points for him since that is wrong in so many levels =/
But then amber replies
Don't you think it would be wise for the assassins to take advantage of eliminating these roles so they can't be used in the late game? so I don't think that is it either. Can either of you please explain what you guys were talking about because I have hard time understanding it. I am sorry but English is not my first language, so I am declaring this null read for now due to lack of information.
Third paragraph is still worthy of mentioning though. He understands the possibility of King making irrational and possibly disputable choices and yet he would go for king autonomy? THEN he refuses to vote for the sake of "[creating] a good pro-town atmosphere"? I thought the good pro-town atmosphere for the mafia was where everyone was discussing their opinion about other players, not trying to refrain from attacking each other / cartering to other player's feelings ("buddying"). My suspicion metre of Amber[LighT] has shot up immeasureably, but I only touched beginning of the argument so I can possibly have joy of orgolove pulling off equally scummy maneuver.
orgolove's response is acceptable, though I'll take into note that he asked the king to claim.
Amber[LighT]'s reply only focuses on the second paragraph where orgolove askes for king claim and ignores the first paragraph. I don't like that. Okay, that's unfair since I just saw he effectively answered why he do not like voting system in his response to me, but seriously? You are going to call voting system which was used in mafia games for aeons "flawed" and state King autonomy is going to be better? First, there will be scum king some point in the game so argument that voting is bad because mafia can influence the lynch is null. Giving all the power into the king leads to danger of town spotlight being focused entirely on the king itself. The voting system allows everyone to be held accountable for their actions, not just the king. This is seriously weak argument rehashed into WoT.
orgolove disappears here and don't return for rest of the day methinks. orgolove and Amber[LighT] both had somewhat miffy points some point in their argument, but I definitely find amber to be worse. I might be suffering from DoctorHelvetica complex so I will withhold my vote until I finish the entire game, but I will probably looking over him hard as I do this.
(to be continued, b/c day 1 has motherload of posts. I feel like that time where I tried to cram for mid-term all in one night.)
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I'm having a game of tenhou to clear my thoughts before I get back to this chore. Expect rest of my day1 analysis to be late. Nice to see other people have joined in, more work for me to do weeeee
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Did you see my explanations?
I want to make sure I don't die
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ugh. There seems to be a lot of pressure on me, for really stupid reasons.
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On November 14 2010 11:05 Hesmyrr wrote:DAY 1 STARTSF*** this, I am NOT going to discuss individual posts. I lack too much patience for that. orgolove-Amber[Light] twit twatWhile I agree with generic content of the post that started this, attack on Amber[LighT] feels bit stretched considering lot other people besides him unanimously agreeed Excalibur was useless before you spoke up. I still do not understand Amber[LighT]'s last sentence, and I equally do not understand what orgolove is attacking him on, but if what amber says is what I think he is saying ("we should use excalibur d1") then yeah, -1 townie points for him since that is wrong in so many levels =/ But then amber replies Show nested quote +Don't you think it would be wise for the assassins to take advantage of eliminating these roles so they can't be used in the late game? so I don't think that is it either. Can either of you please explain what you guys were talking about because I have hard time understanding it. I am sorry but English is not my first language, so I am declaring this null read for now due to lack of information. Third paragraph is still worthy of mentioning though. He understands the possibility of King making irrational and possibly disputable choices and yet he would go for king autonomy? THEN he refuses to vote for the sake of "[creating] a good pro-town atmosphere"? I thought the good pro-town atmosphere for the mafia was where everyone was discussing their opinion about other players, not trying to refrain from attacking each other / cartering to other player's feelings ("buddying"). My suspicion metre of Amber[LighT] has shot up immeasureably, but I only touched beginning of the argument so I can possibly have joy of orgolove pulling off equally scummy maneuver. orgolove's response is acceptable, though I'll take into note that he asked the king to claim. Amber[LighT]'s reply only focuses on the second paragraph where orgolove askes for king claim and ignores the first paragraph. I don't like that. Okay, that's unfair since I just saw he effectively answered why he do not like voting system in his response to me, but seriously? You are going to call voting system which was used in mafia games for aeons "flawed" and state King autonomy is going to be better? First, there will be scum king some point in the game so argument that voting is bad because mafia can influence the lynch is null. Giving all the power into the king leads to danger of town spotlight being focused entirely on the king itself. The voting system allows everyone to be held accountable for their actions, not just the king. This is seriously weak argument rehashed into WoT. orgolove disappears here and don't return for rest of the day methinks. orgolove and Amber[LighT] both had somewhat miffy points some point in their argument, but I definitely find amber to be worse. I might be suffering from DoctorHelvetica complex so I will withhold my vote until I finish the entire game, but I will probably looking over him hard as I do this. (to be continued, b/c day 1 has motherload of posts. I feel like that time where I tried to cram for mid-term all in one night.)
I'm going to address your points as best as possible. I apologize for any discrepancies w/ regards to the language barrier. I understand not everyone speaks English first, so I will address what I can...
The use of the relics:
My thought when I read the description of the game and the various roles, even before Day 1 began, was that the relics could be used for a couple of scenarios:
a. The assassins could use this as a mechanism to divert blame away from making a decision that could bite them in the ass. This could increase trust with the King that used the relic because they felt that the town could benefit as a whole by not having a lynch directly come back to them later.
b. The assassins could use them to make sure that the town could not take advantage of these abilities later in the game. When you think about it, using Merlin for pro-town purposes is most beneficial during the first day, and the first day only. The worth of using this ability decreases day after day. The assassins could eventually use this ability to cause utter confusion at any point, making the worth of using it stay relatively the same throughout the game. The opposite actually applies for the other relic. That ability will increase in worth as the days go on, since the odds of hitting an assassin increase (see below) :
*Assuming assassins never get hit:
Day 1 --> 2/9 chance
Day 2 --> 2/7 chance
Day 3 --> 2/5 chance
Day 4 --> 2/3 chance (useless by then, but still worth noting)
**I am \ assuming that the sword also takes out the sitting king by random. If not then subtract 1 person per day. The worth of the ability would increase for an assassin king to use though.
It would appear that using the sword early is risky, but beneficial for the mafia. By today though, the worth of either ability has diminished so I doubt either party will jump to use them.
By today though I think even talking about the relics is pointless. I think the consensus of the town is that we would rather not use them. I am okay with this decision.
Also I replied to the most pressing issue in Orgoloves post. If he felt I did anything to not fulfill a complete response he could have asked me to respond again and rephrase the question. He did not. He made another post today that rehashed similar posting habits from his day 1 posts and I replied accordingly.
Also don't think that there is a 100% chance that there will be a mafia king. The kingmaker could actually be lucky enough to analyze players that are playing very pro-town. It's important for the kingmaker to do his part and analyze the players behind the scenes and avoid picking scum players. We could go through the whole game without ever having an assassin king. Congrats to the kingmaker if that happens.
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I misrepresented the time I meant to end the day so you have until 17:00 KST (7 hours from now) to finish up the day.
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urrrrgh it looks like unless CubEdin votes for BrownBear I'll have to decide the lynch. I am having nightmares of micro-mafia again -_-
On that note,
CALL: EXCAILBUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
![[image loading]](http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5940/excaliburfatestaynight3.jpg)
since amber agrees that neither faction wants to use it anyway just let dice rule town's fate k.
+ Show Spoiler +j/k. It's use, not call and I deliberately mispronounced it just for insurance reasons too so you guys don't have to put me down as the worst king in history. I'll take a look at everyone's argument, focus specifically on Amber[LighT] and BrownBear (because I don't think I can look over the entire thread, unless someone else is willing to propose alternative suspect) and make my decision then so I'd appreciate it if anyone had other suspicious things they wanted to share.
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Amber[Light] what do you think of Brownbear?
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BrownBear, can you respond against this? Also was wondering if you had any other reason for voting for amber other than that he is connected to LSB.
PS. 'this' is linked to another post, mentioning it just in case.
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^More info. You didn't give that much reasoning why you voted for Brownbear.
Just checking if this is OMGYS
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##Vote: Amber[Light]
execute: Amber[Light]
Sorry for not waiting CubEdin's vote but really need to sleep. Almost 4 AM already =/
I apologize if I have made a wrong decision. LSB's arguments were definitely the most persuasive one I have seen in this thread, but there were some things I just could not get over and I somewhat trust orgolove/less so on Pandain at moment. Still extremely hard decision.
My drowsiness induces me to kill CubEdin for just sake of him going MIA but that's kinda unfair, considering I have yet to pay any attention to him at the moment... either way good night.
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Oh fuck me, I didn't get back last night till about 3am and I was kinda tipsy and forgot to vote.
But even if I had, I wouldn't have had time to go over the posts carefully again due to my "condition". I'm really sorry.
In retrospect, though, I wouldn't have voted for BrownBear simply because his posts during the first day seemed very pro-town. I would have been inclined towards LSB but simply because his attacks don't seem be to be based on much. On there other hand, there's not much ELSE to go on, so I guess he has a point.
As for Amber, I get the reasons he was voted for, but I really don't think he's red. I don't think ANYONE that has been arguing here is red, I think the mafias are actually lurking, but I guess we will know for sure soon.
(Glad the day post hasn't been up so I get to post this before the "revelation".  )
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Another thing:
After looking and reading, during day 3 I will probably be focusing on Pandain and Orgolove, Pandain because he's been flying under the radar and Orgolove because I find his arguments to be a bit shifty. I guess it's no use to stir up stuff now, but we'll see after the night passes.
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Day 2![[image loading]](https://tc2.wikispaces.com/file/view/guillotine.jpg/32021821/guillotine.jpg)
Oh Hessmyrr, Oh Hessmyrr, King filled with fire
Couldn't take it anymore, Amber's head is now on the pyre
Burn him! Burn him!
All the town screamed with rage!
They want to see blood! No more time to gauge!
Is he innocent? Is he guilty?
Oh what the hell, get on with the execution
Time to see...
+ Show Spoiler +
as more innocent blood fell!
It is now Night 2, so send in your actions!
You have 18 hours to make do with your faction!
Tomorrow, a new King shall rise to lead you to victory.
But be careful my friends - some of them may be tricky...
Night 2 ends in 18 hours at 12AM ET/ 14:00KST
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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oops, with dose of flamewheel headshot.
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EPT
