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TL.net130 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Kennigit/PSTSL/PS_TSL_Banner.png) Final DQs and Point Adjustments
TSL-fraer, TSL-JuanJo_O, TSL-aQp_JuaChi, and TSL-HappyZerg disqualified for ladder abuse.
TSL-fraer
TSL-fraer abused by logging onto DIMAGA's alternate account lopl and giving DIMAGA free wins. The IP address of lopl for one of the freewin games matches TSL-fraer's IP address. The TSL does not tolerate players who abuse or players that help others abuse.
TSL-HappyZerg
TSL-HappyZerg abused by logging onto DIMAGA's alternate account lopl and giving DIMAGA free wins. The IP address of lopl for one of the freewin games matches TSL-HappyZerg's IP address. The TSL does not tolerate players who abuse or players that help others abuse.
TSL-JuanJo_O
TSL-JuanJo_O played two games (2-0) against HoBBang[3.33] in the last ten minutes of the TSL Ladder. HoBBang[3.33] was an account transferred from an alternate account of TSL-aQp_Juachi, who is TSL-JuanJo_O's friend and fellow Peruvian. In addition, TSL-JuanJo_O sent only twelve replays in his replay pack out of 242 TSL ladder games, claiming his other 230 replays did not save because his "autoreplay did not work". We cannot allow a player to participate who qualifies under such suspicious circumstances and does not submit a full replay pack.
TSL-aQp_JuaChi
TSL-aQp_JuaChi has an alternate account 123reptar which transferred to HoBBang[3.33], which used a fake Korean flag. TSL-aQp_JuaChi then logged onto HoBBang[3.33] and gave TSL-JuanJo_O two free wins in the final ten minutes of the ladder.
Point Adjustments (No DQs)
The following players were penalized for exceeding the 3-win differential per 24-hour period:
TSL-iG.Casper, -130 points (6-2 vs TSL-Kr)
TSL-Kolll, -130 points (4-0 vs TSL-Sziky)
TSL-KenZy, -97 points (4-0 vs TSL-Rondo)
TSL-iNcontroL, -97 points (4-0 vs TSL)GaMeZoOnE()
TSL-Mamon., -97 points (5-1 vs TSL-Bylat-_-)
The following game series were determined to be "suspicious" due to their timing, score, and player nationalities.
1. tsl-marw > TSL-HappyZerg, 3-0
2. TSL-Kolll > SD_DS, 3-0
3. TSL-Dreiven > TSL-Zazu(GN), 3-0
Our staff analyzed the replays and circumstances, and have determined that series #1 and series #2 were legitimately played, but series #3 went against the spirit of TSL competition because TSL-Zazu(GN) played with his offrace. Therefore, the three games from series #3 will be removed, penalizing TSL-Dreiven -195 points.
Keep in mind, we are not accusing TSL-Dreiven of knowingly ladder abusing, as both he and TSL-Zazu(GN) played from separate IP addresses and on their own TSL accounts. However, the highly suspicious nature of the wins forced us to remove the games.
This concludes our counter-abuse efforts. The Top 48 Standings have been finalized, and we will be posting final rankings and group pairings soon.
Cheers,
TSL Staff
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Woo great job TL, so amazing all this detective work to keep things legit. Thanks for running such an awesome tournament once again the TSL is 100% kickass. 
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Thanks a lot, looking forward to the final rankings!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
wow fraer out too  lol wtf
Point deductions are fair and understandable. Good work guys!
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finally! can't wait for the groups and final standing! keep it up TL staff.
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United States17042 Posts
good to see that TSL is trying really hard to keep everyone honest. Great job
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thank you for all the hard work TL staff 
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Does this mean Lz is in ? :O
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Well, it is fair. Good that it is finally over
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I hope this means Naugrim and Datoby is in!
Good job, TSL staff!
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Thats some awesome work by the TSL Staff. I'm really glad to see such scrutiny here and it was obviously needed. If I'm not mistaken since fraer was DQ'd this means LZ is in!!!
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Nice to see such thorough work with the anti abuse. Interesting that so many people think they can get away with some of this stuff.
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On December 16 2009 05:31 meeple wrote:
Thats some awesome work by the TSL Staff. I'm really glad to see such scrutiny here and it was obviously needed. If I'm not mistaken since fraer was DQ'd this means LZ is in!!!
Really is that true? I thought he needed more than just one DQ...
but if it is true then FUCK YEAH lz!
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lol at these disqualifications
and i would have gotten away with it if it werent for you meddling kids
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Correct me if Im wrong but subtracting 195 points from Dreiven means hes out of top 48?
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Looking forward to the group selection
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Russian Federation132 Posts
1. tsl-marw > TSL-HappyZerg, 3-0
2. TSL-Kolll > SD_DS, 3-0
3. TSL-Dreiven > TSL-Zazu(GN), 3-0
Our staff analyzed the replays and circumstnaces, and have determined that series #1 and series #2 were legitimately played, but series #3 went against the spirit of TSL competition because TSL-Zazu(GN) played with his offrace. Therefore, the three games from series #3 will be removed, penalizing TSL-Dreiven -195 points.
whats with koll and marv, are they gonna penalized too for the games or is it not sure?
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uh oh. Well I hope Lz makes it. TSL staff has been awesome.
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No actions against Castros non TSL account play vs TSL account players (happened after castro already played TSL games)? Namely castro vs Kr.
So this means you can play TSL3 (if happens) games with your other known iccup account against TSL players while already played TSL ladder games?
+ Show Spoiler +Unless [pan]castro account isn't castros...
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Thanks to the TSL Staff. That was for sure a huge amount of work to do. Some tough decisions may be included as well.
Great appreciation to the players who tried to achieve the goal without cheating/abusing even if they didn't make it eventually.
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On December 16 2009 05:44 Gaspadin wrote:Show nested quote +1. tsl-marw > TSL-HappyZerg, 3-0
2. TSL-Kolll > SD_DS, 3-0
3. TSL-Dreiven > TSL-Zazu(GN), 3-0
Our staff analyzed the replays and circumstnaces, and have determined that series #1 and series #2 were legitimately played, but series #3 went against the spirit of TSL competition because TSL-Zazu(GN) played with his offrace. Therefore, the three games from series #3 will be removed, penalizing TSL-Dreiven -195 points. whats with koll and marv, are they gonna penalized too for the games or is it not sure?
no penalisation.
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ive lost my respect for rox clan, used to be my favorite top clan (
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On December 16 2009 05:39 2longbe4 wrote:
Correct me if Im wrong but subtracting 195 points from Dreiven means hes out of top 48?
Keep in mind that there's a lot of abusers above Dreiven which means that the cutoff won't be as high anymore.
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Seriously what the fuck is this shit? How did any of those guys actually expect to get away without being caught? I mean I guess I can sort of (but not really at all) understand the motives... but I don't think I'd have the balls to go through with it. These guys are well known enough to know that their games are going to be scrutinized by some of the best event organizers in the community, so why even try it? It's not like they aren't good enough to qualify legitimately.
I'll never understand the stupidity of these kids.
edit: I'm talking about ALL of the DQs lately, and not the players who had some points taken away.
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Zazu offraced throughout the whole tournament...
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On December 16 2009 05:53 grobo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 05:39 2longbe4 wrote:
Correct me if Im wrong but subtracting 195 points from Dreiven means hes out of top 48? Keep in mind that there's a lot of abusers above Dreiven which means that the cutoff won't be as high anymore.
If my count is correct, the deduction will place Dreiven at 9556, that is just before datoby in the standings. The amount of DQ's should just about allow these two to make top 48 at places 46 and 47. , with the cutoff landing at around 9400.
This is just a tentative calculation, mind you, and I haven't taken any other point deductions except Dreivens (only DQ's).
In keeping with the topic: Great job by the staff, and props to all who made the ladder without resorting to cheating. Cheaters, lrn2honour.
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On December 16 2009 05:39 2longbe4 wrote:
Correct me if Im wrong but subtracting 195 points from Dreiven means hes out of top 48?
If I had to guess he would still be in. -195 puts him around 9550, which should be enough to qualify once all the DQs are removed.
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On December 16 2009 05:46 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
No actions againts Castros non TSL account play vs TSL account players (happened after castro already played TSL games)? Namely castro vs Kr.
So this means you can play TSL3 (if happens) games with your other known iccup account against TSL players while already played TSL ladder games?
On December 16 2009 05:45 John49ers wrote:uh oh. Well I hope Lz makes it. TSL staff has been awesome.
Didn't they say the 1st thing was a misunderstanding? and you would think that they looked into those games as well esp. considering all of the abuse they have tracked down.
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Dimaga did it hardcore... so sad, too bad for TSL
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not fair to dreiven!!!!!!!! i can't belive it... so many players played offrace.. what dreiven got to do with it?! he is punished for something he didn't do.. it's suspicion and coz of it you stole his points. LOL!
if he cheated then DQ him, if you have no proof then you can't deduct those points... or you can just (and just) coz you can... really not fair.. this reminds me on croatian justice... we think that you are guilty but we can't prove it.. well, no matter, we will punish you with half of punishment, just to be sure
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On December 16 2009 06:08 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 05:46 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
No actions againts Castros non TSL account play vs TSL account players (happened after castro already played TSL games)? Namely castro vs Kr.
So this means you can play TSL3 (if happens) games with your other known iccup account against TSL players while already played TSL ladder games? Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 05:45 John49ers wrote:uh oh. Well I hope Lz makes it. TSL staff has been awesome. Didn't they say the 1st thing was a misunderstanding? and you would think that they looked into those games as well esp. considering all of the abuse they have tracked down.
For example, If you would be that player who is 30 points away from (or 1 win away) qualifying round 1 qualifier (or first player to not qualify). Now would you accept this "misunderstanding"?
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At this stage Mamon is almost in^^
God knows he deserves it with all those games. hehe:D
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this means Naugrim is in yes?
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On December 16 2009 06:19 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:08 Trezeguet23 wrote:On December 16 2009 05:46 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
No actions againts Castros non TSL account play vs TSL account players (happened after castro already played TSL games)? Namely castro vs Kr.
So this means you can play TSL3 (if happens) games with your other known iccup account against TSL players while already played TSL ladder games? On December 16 2009 05:45 John49ers wrote:uh oh. Well I hope Lz makes it. TSL staff has been awesome. Didn't they say the 1st thing was a misunderstanding? and you would think that they looked into those games as well esp. considering all of the abuse they have tracked down. For example, If you would be that player who is 30 points away from (or 1 win away) qualifying round 1 qualifier (or first player to not qualify). Now would you accept this "misunderstanding"?
Sorry, I am not trying to defend anyone or even put in an opinion about what should happen, I was just saying that I read before that it was considered a misunderstanding of the rules and that in my opinion the inquisition seems to have been thorough.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On December 16 2009 05:48 MorroW[MB] wrote:
ive lost my respect for rox clan, used to be my favorite top clan (
indeed
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On December 16 2009 06:05 True_Spike wrote:
Zazu offraced throughout the whole tournament...
That´s true, i´ve seen posts of TSLers complaining at him changing his race in the countdown, etc, i don´t think dreiver should be penalized.
I hope LZ makes it =) he deserves it.
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On December 16 2009 06:05 True_Spike wrote:
Zazu offraced throughout the whole tournament...
He off-raced in only 10% of his games, most of which were vs Z. He played only 6 off-race games vs P, three of which in the last minutes of the ladder vs. Dreiven. This is a clear indication that he was not giving it his best. Since there is no way to tell if Dreiven was aware of this or not, he cannot be DQed, but taking the points away seems fair.
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no it doesn't seems fair!
is job of a player to know who is which race or what? i really can't belive they stole points from dreiven...
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On December 16 2009 06:12 purgerinho wrote:
not fair to dreiven!!!!!!!! i can't belive it... so many players played offrace.. what dreiven got to do with it?! he is punished for something he didn't do.. it's suspicion and coz of it you stole his points. LOL!
if he cheated then DQ him, if you have no proof then you can't deduct those points... or you can just (and just) coz you can... really not fair.. this reminds me on croatian justice... we think that you are guilty but we can't prove it.. well, no matter, we will punish you with half of punishment, just to be sure
Well, they're not punishing him. They're only taking away what are effectively "free points." If they went any further in the point deductions maybe you would have a good argument, but as it is I can't see why either DQ or doing nothing is the better option here.
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he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered.
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motbob: if he done something wrong then DQ him.. if he didn't then don't touch him.. it's very simple... why should he be responsible for someone else? zazu offraced, not dreiven.. but if they want to have principles then they should check all the replays of every player, i can bet that there are many cases of throwing games to friends..
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On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered.
i'm so glad you answered here!
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I wonder if the staff wouldnt have reduced dreivens points if it would have meant that he drops out of the qualifiers. I can imagine we would have had to wait another day for the staff to duke it out.
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On December 16 2009 06:47 purgerinho wrote:
motbob: if he done something wrong then DQ him.. if he didn't then don't touch him.. it's very simple... why should he be responsible for someone else? zazu offraced, not dreiven.. but if they want to have principles then they should check all the replays of every player, i can bet that there are many cases of throwing games to friends..
It is very simple, he should not benefit from getting "free wins" from someone, even if he didn't know he was getting free wins. (You can of course contest that these were free wins, as he is doing, but that is a different discussion.)
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Uhm, i don't think they would have made this point adjustments for dreiven if he would have been out of top 48 with it. So no drama.
And even though dreiven wasn't aware of it, it's still "unfair" for the other player who want to qualify when someone throw games to someone else in the last minutes of the ladder. (Maybe Zazu didn't even "throw" the games but he did not gave his best since he played offrace and with that, it's very unlikely that dreiven would have lost) Still as long as the benefit recipient isn't inducted you can't really DQ him for it, but you can remove the points he normally wouldn't have.
(That Zazu played rnd changes alot tho. But as i said before, Dreiven is still in the same qualifier round as before, so it's not a big deal)
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Nice work guys! Glad to see some get penalized and not DQ'd
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wow didnt expect this from ukraine what were they thinking lol.
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wait, wait..
imagine this, dreiven plays in last minutes and zazu throws games, he didn't know it... he lost his chance to play fair game just coz of unfair act of his opponent... this punishment is completely unfair to dreiven..
and how can they tell zazu throw that games? unfair decision and now would be logical to check every replay of every player..
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I really don't agree with that dreiven decision but whatever. I don't think he's out of the tournament, so it doesn't matter.
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maybe you are a tad right there purgerinho but its not that BIG OF A DEAL cause Dreiven will make Top 48 no matter what..
so calm down plz
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this puts mammon at #49 !!
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On December 16 2009 06:20 cYaN wrote:
At this stage Mamon is almost in^^
God knows he deserves it with all those games. hehe:D
With the removal of those 97 points he won't make it. Lz qualifies.
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On December 16 2009 06:57 Trias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:47 purgerinho wrote:
motbob: if he done something wrong then DQ him.. if he didn't then don't touch him.. it's very simple... why should he be responsible for someone else? zazu offraced, not dreiven.. but if they want to have principles then they should check all the replays of every player, i can bet that there are many cases of throwing games to friends.. It is very simple, he should not benefit from getting "free wins" from someone, even if he didn't know he was getting free wins. (You can of course contest that these were free wins, as he is doing, but that is a different discussion.)
Thats retarded, IdrA would beat many of the foreigners in the TSL like 90% of the time or even more, he can´t play with them because he should not benefit from getting "free wins"??
Zazu decided to go random vs dreiven and lost 3 times in a row, stupid decision by zazu´s part? maybe, but that does not have anything to do with dreiven.
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On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered.
I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF.
how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL?
how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse.
im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder.
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And he avoided White-Ra's group with the loss of that 195 points...
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I'm so glad Datoby and Naugrim qualified, but too bad Naugrim has to play a ZvZ vs kolll right from the start
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dreiven be quiet and happy ^^ perhaps other groups harder 
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some sound like drama queens here that want to criticize for the sake of criticizing. both is possible in this situation where dreiven played vs zazu.. that it was freewins or legitimate games.. that one intended it or both.. they watched the replays and looked at the background and decided this way.
there is no perfect law or holy decisions.. all is individual and when they would always decide in the other way around then in the next tournament everybody could start intentionally something like this.
but the point is in dreivens case it doesnt even make a difference for him. so calm down.. the only useful post in this matter is imo the one from dreiven himself.
all in all i am happy with all the good work the tl staff did so far and with the decisions they made.
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Haha yes Dreiven fucking got in! YESSSS
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So far I've been very impressed with the anti-cheating measurements this TSL. I hope they are even better next TSL.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder.
I did read the rules as I said many times in some of the threads here I was "hanging around" in.
Thanks.
I accidentally broke them at 3:44am the night they took effect.. I was penalized and I didn't fight it or anything. SORRY IT HAPPENED BRAH lol
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panties around here need to be unwadded.
iNcontroL is fine. It was a minor infraction and it was admitted immediately. Dreiven seems fine, too. Was just a misunderstanding. The tourney admins are ALSO fine. They're just trying to run a clean competition.
Beers and hugs all around. We're in for a good show here.
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Osaka27134 Posts
On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered.
Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive.
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I have to disagree with the Dreiven decision to a degree. I mean, it's all fair and square, but have the TL staff inspected any other such matches? Or just Dreiven vs. Zazu because they're both from the same country? ^______^;;
Good job btw! I like the graphics, lol ;p (homepage post).
On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive.
He meant their both being from the same country, not Poland specifically. He's not suspecting you of being chauvinistic, but of potentially not inspecting other suspicious games because they weren't standing out as much.
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On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive.
Ummmm... Mani?
The following game series were determined to be "suspicious" due to their timing, score, and player nationalities.
1. tsl-marw > TSL-HappyZerg, 3-0
2. TSL-Kolll > SD_DS, 3-0
3. TSL-Dreiven > TSL-Zazu(GN), 3-0
Read the OP, buddy.
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On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive.
uhh did you read the OP? it even says it's partially based on nationalities.....
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Osaka27134 Posts
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" In addition, TSL-JuanJo_O sent only twelve replays in his replay pack out of 242 TSL ladder games, claiming his other 230 replays did not save because his "autoreplay did not work"."
lololol
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On December 16 2009 08:29 Manifesto7 wrote:
Well that sucks.
Manifesto, you rock.
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On December 16 2009 08:29 Manifesto7 wrote:
Well that sucks.
Big time! ;p
Well, I'm glad he qualified. TL stff are doing a great job with everything. Let this be the greatest foreign SC event! ^___^
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
sorry guys but thinking nationalities has nothing to do with it is retarded.. and "getting offended" is crap utopian logic that doesn't apply. People have time in and time again proven that being countrymen DOES lend towards bias and eventual "help" or in this case abuse. I am friends with Dreiven and I love the guy but don't tell me that RIGHT before the season ends zazu plays random (he mostly ZvP's) vs his countrymen and loses 3-0 and he was trying as hard as he could to win.
It was the same crap with kwark and it was what lead to him being asked to NOT do that with his clanmates. If I needed wins and I suddenly 3-0'd EG.Louder a guy who wasn't going to qualify we'd all be saying the same thing... he PROBABLY wouldn't try his hardest to just crush me out of it.
Maybe they were legit games? Maybe not.. the admins had to make a gut call on this and I think given history (and the amount of abuse TSL2 has shown to inspire) we can go ahead and say that this was fine. Dreiven is still in the league, zazu is still not, but at the end of the day the draw is as pure as the admins THINK it should be.
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Kolll was actually 4:2 against Sziky
And the decision to take points off Dreiven. You deducted pts for something Dreiven did not do and wasn't aware. If you're against playing offrace, then DQ Zazu(GN). This has nothing to do with Dreiven. Though the pts difference won't change the group Dreiven is in, it's a pretty stupid/unfair/inappropriate/poor-decision making skill on whoever thought that was reasonable.
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wow incontrol. because may ppl abused we guess dreiven abused to, what kinda fucked up logic is that?
dreivens PvZ is pretty good so it might be not that stupid to try a rnd vs him. especially because you aint got much to lose and a friend of yours is winning. this is not abuse even is the circumstances are good for both players.
If 2 player go like 3:3 in below A- they both profit but do you check all those ecounters?
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Russian Federation6 Posts
I wish to express bewilderment why me have punished on 97 pts when I played with it in different days, I am ready to argue that many too have games in different days where someone wins them with the account more than 3-0
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On December 16 2009 06:19 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:08 Trezeguet23 wrote:On December 16 2009 05:46 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
No actions againts Castros non TSL account play vs TSL account players (happened after castro already played TSL games)? Namely castro vs Kr.
So this means you can play TSL3 (if happens) games with your other known iccup account against TSL players while already played TSL ladder games? On December 16 2009 05:45 John49ers wrote:uh oh. Well I hope Lz makes it. TSL staff has been awesome. Didn't they say the 1st thing was a misunderstanding? and you would think that they looked into those games as well esp. considering all of the abuse they have tracked down. For example, If you would be that player who is 30 points away from (or 1 win away) qualifying round 1 qualifier (or first player to not qualify). Now would you accept this "misunderstanding"?
I also think its strange! They should atleast have gived him some extra minus for that game! And strange he do 2 "rules breaking" things and just loose points for 3 games.
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I am now rooting for dreiven! To win it all! I feel pity in his case and I don't (imo) think it was fair to take away points. But other than that GREAT WORK by TSL staff at looking in to every detail. Wow tsl knows how to run a tournament.
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United States13896 Posts
On December 16 2009 08:58 Mamon wrote:
I wish to express bewilderment why me have punished on 97 pts when I played with it in different days, I am ready to argue that many too have games in different days where someone wins them with the account more than 3-0
2. A player may only have a 3 game win/loss differential versus his opponent per 24-hour period (from this announcement)
First game against TSL-Bylat-_- took place at Sat Dec 12 16:03:10 MSK
Last game against TSL-Bylat-_- took place at Sun Dec 13 03:46:48 MSK
5-1 in the course of < 12 hours. Pretty cut and dry.
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On December 16 2009 08:58 Mamon wrote:
I wish to express bewilderment why me have punished on 97 pts when I played with it in different days, I am ready to argue that many too have games in different days where someone wins them with the account more than 3-0
playing it on another day doesnt matter if its still within the 24 hour period
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United States12607 Posts
On December 16 2009 08:28 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. uhh did you read the OP? it even says it's partially based on nationalities.....
What the OP means is that it was a consideration that both players are from the same country. It's still irrelevant that they are both from Poland specifically.
So Mani was right in one sense 
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On December 16 2009 09:23 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 08:28 eXigent. wrote:On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. uhh did you read the OP? it even says it's partially based on nationalities..... What the OP means is that it was a consideration that both players are from the same country. It's still irrelevant that they are both from Poland specifically. So Mani was right in one sense
Annnnnd not so much.
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great work admins. thank you for a great tournament!
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On December 16 2009 09:31 tinman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 09:23 JWD wrote:On December 16 2009 08:28 eXigent. wrote:On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. uhh did you read the OP? it even says it's partially based on nationalities..... What the OP means is that it was a consideration that both players are from the same country. It's still irrelevant that they are both from Poland specifically. So Mani was right in one sense Annnnnd not so much.
He uses the words "If we BOTH weren't from Poland".
He clearly was implying it was the fact that they were from the same country, so people just went off at him for no reason.
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Russian Federation6 Posts
http://ru.iccup.com/matchlist/876851/1x1/page2.html
TSL-Naugrim_vsTSL-SparKles 6-2 /
TSL-Naugrim - 97 pts
After that to become interestingly, the truth, for me it is not so important, but that eyes then it very much would solve for me could and to close on my games is important
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Hey and me , i am top 52 , i do not meet in the groups
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 16 2009 09:49 Mamon wrote:http://ru.iccup.com/matchlist/876851/1x1/page2.htmlTSL-Naugrim_vsTSL-SparKles 6-2 / TSL-Naugrim - 97 pts After that to become interestingly, the truth, for me it is not so important, but that eyes then it very much would solve for me could and to close on my games is important The rules came into effect at 0600 MSK on the 10th of December. Those games were played on the 3rd of December.
regarding the DQs, I would be very interested in seeing what the RoX management have to say
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On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive.
I think that it was considered mainly because we're country man .. probably if i was playing vs some other country or korean u wouldnt even look at it.. well its ur decision but I earned it fair & square
Im still in and thats whats imporant. GJ in finding abusers in top european players
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 16 2009 09:50 TSL-Gosudark- wrote:
Hey and me , i am top 52 , i do not meet in the groups
After XiaoZi's complaints went through your score was 9048
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 16 2009 09:53 Dreiven wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. I think that it was considered mainly because we're country man .. probably if i was playing vs some other country or korean u wouldnt even look at it.. well its ur decision but I earned it fair & square Im still in and thats whats imporant. GJ in finding abusers in top european players
We definitely took notice! For instance the games that JuanJo got DQd on was a 2-0 vs a Korean flag. We paid specific attention to those three series between countrymen and made a statement regarding those because to the public those look the most suspicious. Rest assured that we checked every series vs a non-TSL player for abuse. It was a painful process, but we strongly beleive the community will be better for it.
Nevertheless, goodluck in the tournament
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Russian Federation6 Posts
Sorry, I now not in this command...
I tried not to play more than 3-0, all this time. It is insulting that so it has turned out, until the last minute hoped to get on tournament =) All thanks, I will support Idrа, best the worthy player in ladder :D
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drat one more d/q woulda got lz in TT
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On December 16 2009 09:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 09:53 Dreiven wrote:On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. I think that it was considered mainly because we're country man .. probably if i was playing vs some other country or korean u wouldnt even look at it.. well its ur decision but I earned it fair & square Im still in and thats whats imporant. GJ in finding abusers in top european players We definitely took notice! For instance the games that JuanJo got DQd on was a 2-0 vs a Korean flag. We paid specific attention to those three series between countrymen and made a statement regarding those because to the public those look the most suspicious. Rest assured that we checked every series vs a non-TSL player for abuse. It was a painful process, but we strongly beleive the community will be better for it. Nevertheless, goodluck in the tournament
whaaaaat? you checked every game vs non tslers? thats insane, how did you do that so fast?
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United States4991 Posts
On December 16 2009 10:07 aqui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 09:57 Plexa wrote:On December 16 2009 09:53 Dreiven wrote:On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. I think that it was considered mainly because we're country man .. probably if i was playing vs some other country or korean u wouldnt even look at it.. well its ur decision but I earned it fair & square Im still in and thats whats imporant. GJ in finding abusers in top european players We definitely took notice! For instance the games that JuanJo got DQd on was a 2-0 vs a Korean flag. We paid specific attention to those three series between countrymen and made a statement regarding those because to the public those look the most suspicious. Rest assured that we checked every series vs a non-TSL player for abuse. It was a painful process, but we strongly beleive the community will be better for it. Nevertheless, goodluck in the tournament whaaaaat? you checked every game vs non tslers? thats insane, how did you do that so fast?
Plexa alone did not do it, there were several people who did that.
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Lol at the guy who had to check Mamon rep pack.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
There was a reasonably sized team going through it aided with the magic and wizardry of R1CH. No stone was left unturned!
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On December 16 2009 10:05 StorrZerg wrote:
drat one more d/q woulda got lz in TT
A player could still die between now and the start of the tournament *winkwink*.
That would allow Lz to slide in
... or we could ask baby jesus to perform a miracle *winkwink *
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 16 2009 08:57 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
wow incontrol. because may ppl abused we guess dreiven abused to, what kinda fucked up logic is that?
dreivens PvZ is pretty good so it might be not that stupid to try a rnd vs him. especially because you aint got much to lose and a friend of yours is winning. this is not abuse even is the circumstances are good for both players.
If 2 player go like 3:3 in below A- they both profit but do you check all those ecounters?
THe "history" I was talking about was nationalistic abuse. Also the abuse in TSL2 doesn't help but create an atmosphere of "anything is possible."
No, obviously because of all the abuse that doesn't mean Dreiven did as well. Is it even worth my time to respond to you or do you just look for the worst possible interpretation then move on?
also
On December 16 2009 08:57 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
dreivens PvZ is pretty good so it might be not that stupid to try a rnd vs him. especially because youaint got much to lose and a friend of yours is winning. this is not abuse even is the circumstances are good for both players.
IS abuse. Sorry, playing an offrace or random vs your friend who needs to win to qualify and magically losing 0-3 IS abuse. If you didn't know this you aren't an active part of the competitive scene or you are just blaringly stupid.
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the admins have been ridiculously awesome for this tournament, keep up the great work!
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United States42249 Posts
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I'm somewhat disappointed Mamon just missed out after playing all those games. I thought he would sneak in with this final round of DQs, but the 97 point penalty killed him.
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On December 16 2009 10:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
IS abuse. Sorry, playing an offrace or random vs your friend who needs to win to qualify and magically losing 0-3 IS abuse. If you didn't know this you aren't an active part of the competitive scene or you are just blaringly stupid.
"yes it is wise master, I will never ever question your wisdom again"
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On December 16 2009 10:51 Jaksiel wrote:
I'm somewhat disappointed Mamon just missed out after playing all those games. I thought he would sneak in with this final round of DQs, but the 97 point penalty killed him.
Yes I agree with that. I feel the same way about LZGamer. Those two guys put in alot of effort, and it would be nice to see them in, especially since they ended up so close. Maybe they can be "substitutes" if someone somehow forfeits/are unable to play
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On December 16 2009 10:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Sorry, playing an offrace or random vs your friend who needs to win to qualify and magically losing 0-3 IS abuse. Playing offrace or random isn't abuse. Playing against friend isn't abuse. Dreiven didn't need to win to qualify. Those wins weren't so magical, just look at Zazu win ratio, I think he is only player in top200 under 50%.
I am just pointing out your logic is flawed, decision to penalize Dreiven is based on suspicion, and made as a matter of preventing possible abuse, rather than solid and undisputable facts as you are trying to express. I am not saying this way or the other, because making judgements in a situation where you have absolutely no proof is a mark of being silly.
re Mamon and LZ.
Maybe if they get better next season they can sneak in.
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Wow, that must have been a fuckload of work. Thanks for keeping TSL as abuse-free as possible.
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I don't really agree with penalizing dreiven, but i'm glad it didn't DQ him. To dock those points, there needs to be more rules or more evidence.
The deduction was only based on suspicion. There are no rules concerning nationality, friends, or offracing in the ladder. Players are allowed by the rules to have a 3 win differential against anyone.
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when's do the qualifier rounds start?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 16 2009 11:49 dranjam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 10:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Sorry, playing an offrace or random vs your friend who needs to win to qualify and magically losing 0-3 IS abuse. Playing offrace or random isn't abuse. Playing against friend isn't abuse. Dreiven didn't need to win to qualify. Those wins weren't so magical, just look at Zazu win ratio, I think he is only player in top200 under 50%. I am just pointing out your logic is flawed, decision to penalize Dreiven is based on suspicion, and made as a matter of preventing possible abuse, rather than solid and undisputable facts as you are trying to express. I am not saying this way or the other, because making judgements in a situation where you have absolutely no proof is a mark of being silly. re Mamon and LZ. Maybe if they get better next season they can sneak in.
YOu are absolutely right. Offracing isn't abuse. Playing a friend isn't abuse. Friend who can qualify winning isn't abuse. Zuzu losing games isn't surprising.
Combine ALL those things and the abuse STILL isn't inherent. Bravo, you pointed out what was already stated from the beginning. However, the suspicion was high enough to warrant a point deduction. Was he banned? Was he penalized further? Warned even? Nope. But he had suspicious games removed because ALL those factors together make for a shady situation. Can they ALL be explained? Certainly. But it can also be argued that they are explained the other way.
Nice try though.. I appreciate you breaking down my argument and pulling it apart out of context.
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incontrol you sound like a bitch... dreiven was deemed not to have abused under current TSL rules. Why keep the whining? I hope you're not suggesting TSL admins were soft on dreiven... (sorry inc. I have lotsa respect for you and I know you as a TSL contender may feel strongly about abusers, but you have to try see things impartially man...)
Anyways, I have huge respect for the TSL admins. I can barely imagine all the hard work they had to put in to analyze every top player's matchlist and even having to go over reps to determine ladder abuse.
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you cant out rationalize incontrol, his logic is infallable..
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Why is everyone up iNc's ass? I mean it's not like he didn't "accidentally" play four games vs. someone consecutively or anything and the admins took care of that...
It just doesn't make sense to argue someone who's defending the admins decisions when those same decisions were (sorta) detrimental to him as well.
Just get over it he played with a friend who lost 3-0. "Okay" Zazu just wanted to play his friend who was three ranks higher and lose every time because he off-raced, I'm sure things just "turned out" that way.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 16 2009 12:28 win8282 wrote:
incontrol you sound like a bitch... dreiven was deemed not to have abused under current TSL rules. Why keep the whining? I hope you're not suggesting TSL admins were soft on dreiven... (sorry inc. I have lotsa respect for you and I know you as a TSL contender may feel strongly about abusers, but you have to try see things impartially man...)
Anyways, I have huge respect for the TSL admins. I can barely imagine all the hard work they had to put in to analyze every top player's matchlist and even having to go over reps to determine ladder abuse.
Whining? What the FUCK am I whining about? I am arguing on behalf of a decision the admins made.. do you even fucking know the words you say, and what they mean? HE IS WHINING not ME. Holy shit dude.. my head will explode with some of this crap.. jesus.
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rofl
and yea incs analysis on zuzu seems right
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Russian Federation6 Posts
I would rise aside Dreiven'a in this situation as, there it is visible in a match sheet that Zazu, began to play before still for a long time тоссами and терранами because had not time to make the way in top, therefore here does not cause suspicion even these games.
On the other hand a day before ладдера on December, 11th I was in such situation with 9800 pts and have decided to play too against B ранк, I have lost 3-0, but could and выйграть, then me too ban?
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On December 16 2009 12:39 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 12:28 win8282 wrote:
incontrol you sound like a bitch... dreiven was deemed not to have abused under current TSL rules. Why keep the whining? I hope you're not suggesting TSL admins were soft on dreiven... (sorry inc. I have lotsa respect for you and I know you as a TSL contender may feel strongly about abusers, but you have to try see things impartially man...)
Anyways, I have huge respect for the TSL admins. I can barely imagine all the hard work they had to put in to analyze every top player's matchlist and even having to go over reps to determine ladder abuse. Whining? What the FUCK am I whining about? I am arguing on behalf of a decision the admins made.. do you even fucking know the words you say, and what they mean? HE IS WHINING not ME. Holy shit dude.. my head will explode with some of this crap.. jesus.
hey want a hug incontrol?
dealing with silly people is just the worst
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Russian Federation6 Posts
I would rise aside Dreiven'a in this situation as, there it is visible in a match sheet that Zazu, began to play before still for a long time protoss and terran because had not time to make the way in top, therefore here does not cause suspicion even these games.
On the other hand a day before ladder on December, 11th I was in such situation with 9800 pts and have decided to play too against B rank, I have lost 3-0(vs Whistler), but could and win, then me too ban?
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Russian Federation6 Posts
Interestingly, and who can tell, such tournaments will be spent still?(^_^)
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
Oh god the babel translations are killing me. T_T
You are a trooper though Mamon.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 16 2009 13:21 EvilTeletubby wrote:Oh god the babel translations are killing me. T_T You are a trooper though Mamon.
I know now, why some people failed our high school spanish essays...
But hell, Marmon, you deserve an award or something.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On December 16 2009 10:34 KwarK wrote:
This is most vexing.
Can't believe no one caught this, but --
lol
sorry man
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2009 09:03 KwarK wrote:
Just got back from a few days away. Very glad #48 has risen above 9305. That vindicates my decision to play there instead of stopping and hoping it was enough.
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Mamon's posts are very hard to understand. But he's still my hero. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way
Mamon, you rock
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United States47024 Posts
On December 16 2009 12:28 win8282 wrote:
incontrol you sound like a bitch... dreiven was deemed not to have abused under current TSL rules. Why keep the whining? I hope you're not suggesting TSL admins were soft on dreiven... (sorry inc. I have lotsa respect for you and I know you as a TSL contender may feel strongly about abusers, but you have to try see things impartially man...)
Anyways, I have huge respect for the TSL admins. I can barely imagine all the hard work they had to put in to analyze every top player's matchlist and even having to go over reps to determine ladder abuse.
You do realize that Incontrol didn't initiate this, right?
On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder.
A completely misinformed and bad-mannered attack on Incontrol, and he's not justified in a somewhat aggressive response?
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Damn, Ukraine really dropped the ball on this one didn't they? lol, only 2 trustworthy Ukrainians around, ra and Strelok.
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wasnt there a guy named
Moman =o
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Great job TL admins! Im doubtful about the Dreiven point removal but since you guys got all the info I guess well have to rely on your judgement! Thank you for all the effort youve put in to this.
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Wow, this is awesome work.
All the work the TSL team placed into this means for a great qualifiers!
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On December 16 2009 09:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 09:53 Dreiven wrote:On December 16 2009 08:21 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. Being Polish has nothing to do with it. The fact that you think this is based on nationality is offensive. I think that it was considered mainly because we're country man .. probably if i was playing vs some other country or korean u wouldnt even look at it.. well its ur decision but I earned it fair & square Im still in and thats whats imporant. GJ in finding abusers in top european players We definitely took notice! For instance the games that JuanJo got DQd on was a 2-0 vs a Korean flag. We paid specific attention to those three series between countrymen and made a statement regarding those because to the public those look the most suspicious. Rest assured that we checked every series vs a non-TSL player for abuse. It was a painful process, but we strongly beleive the community will be better for it. Nevertheless, goodluck in the tournament
Wow, then I'm gonna have to eat my own words <eats his own words>
Good job, guys!
And grats to Dreiven. ;p
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hey! it's turning out to be an easterneurope's discrimination! so much russians and ukrainians! we will make complaints to international court of justice!!!!111
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Netherlands13554 Posts
On December 16 2009 18:17 mzgk wrote:
hey! it's turning out to be an easterneurope's discrimination! so much russians and ukrainians! we will make complaints to international court of justice!!!!111
LOL
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On December 16 2009 18:17 mzgk wrote:
hey! it's turning out to be an easterneurope's discrimination! so much russians and ukrainians! we will make complaints to international court of justice!!!!111
wtf are you talking about? lol
it's disappointing for us for sure, but everythig is clear about our guys.
+ Show Spoiler +фальсифицировали-фальсифицировали, да не выфальсифицировали
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seriously, what does it mean? @The TSL does not tolerate players who abuse or players that help others abuse.@? who is @The TSL@ btw? a couple of americans with overconfident world-justice-view? take off masks-)
how the fuck u can be assured that IP address of person who has helped to abuse is 100% of certain player? not his roommate,neighbour in the same house or even district with the same external IP? There is a possibility when hundreds of people have one unique fucking IP address, isn't there??? sure, in usa every single user has got static IP, so u can be definitely right when ban americans^^
did you check who was helping in getting freewins for Yosh, or others? why are only russians and ukrainians get involved in it?
i think all rest of ukrainians must boycott this circus!
PS Does PokerStrategy.com-staff approve your decisions?
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On December 16 2009 18:45 Vo-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 18:17 mzgk wrote:
hey! it's turning out to be an easterneurope's discrimination! so much russians and ukrainians! we will make complaints to international court of justice!!!!111 it's disappointing for us for sure, but everythig is clear about our guys.
any of impartial courts or even non-profit organizations of the whole world would laughed at those unprofessional decisions. mmm... except of KESPA for sure^^
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States42249 Posts
Not just Eastern Europe. China and Korea are both excluded and that's even further East. Then of course there's Yosh, an American, who is further East still.
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On December 16 2009 19:10 KwarK wrote:
Not just Eastern Europe. China and Korea are both excluded and that's even further East. Then of course there's Yosh, an American, who is further East still.
oh God... I knew it! I knew it! It's the Universal Conspiracy Against East!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
editted out for butthurt.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 16 2009 14:13 EvilTeletubby wrote:Posted this in the other thread, but can't hurt here too: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/pl.png) Poland - 7 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/us.png) USA - 6 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/de.png) Germany - 6 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/ca.png) Canada - 4 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/se.png) Sweden - 4 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/ua.png) Ukraine - 3 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/ru.png) Russia - 2 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/pe.png) Peru - 2 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/ro.png) Romania - 2 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/lt.png) Lithuania - 2 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/bg.png) Bulgaria - 2 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/nl.png) Netherlands - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/hu.png) Hungary - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/tw.png) Taiwan - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/mx.png) Mexico - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/cl.png) Chile - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/mk.png) Macedonia - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/fr.png) France - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/dk.png) Denmark - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/no.png) Norway - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/it.png) Italy - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/es.png) Spain - 1 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/at.png) Austria - 1
Wow, seriously - NO one from the UK?
Really sorry the DQs messed everything up for Kwark, would have loved to see you in there.
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On December 16 2009 14:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder. A completely misinformed and bad-mannered attack on Incontrol, and he's not justified in a somewhat aggressive response?
oh, in what way is it COMPLETLY misinformed? in what way is it bad mannered? get some brain then post again!
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As for the point adjustments for exceeding the 3-win limit: did the losers get their points back at the same time? (Kr and Sziky being in top48, it surely matters.)
On December 16 2009 19:16 Kennigit wrote:
editted out for butthurt..
as much as you (TSL staff) like emphasising you dont make any decision based on nationality, i think this post is rather offensive. (I'm not saying you should agree with the guy, just dont post this as if it was your reason for disagreeing or just proving his point is wrong.)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 16 2009 19:20 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 14:05 TheYango wrote:On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder. A completely misinformed and bad-mannered attack on Incontrol, and he's not justified in a somewhat aggressive response? oh, in what way is it COMPLETLY misinformed? in what way is it bad mannered? get some brain then post again!
Misinformed because I had addressed the issue several times and you hadn't informed yourself on the whole issue. I had in fact read the rules. It wasn't a reading issue.
And it was bad mannered to go on and on about something that was already covered especially when you do it in a really negative way that is off-base as well. Also it is ironic for you to get pissy about someone saying you are lacking manner then you tell em to "get a brain" lol
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On December 16 2009 19:34 538 wrote:As for the point adjustments for exceeding the 3-win limit: did the losers get their points back at the same time? (Kr and Sziky being in top48, it surely matters.) as much as you (TSL staff) like emphasising you dont make any decision based on nationality, i think this post is rather offensive. (I'm not saying you should agree with the guy, just dont post this as if it was your reason for disagreeing or just proving his point is wrong.)
puh lease
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On December 16 2009 19:34 538 wrote:
As for the point adjustments for exceeding the 3-win limit: did the losers get their points back at the same time? (Kr and Sziky being in top48, it surely matters.)
Of course not. They where breaking the rules as well by playing that last game. They got no penalty because they did not benefit from it (losing the points is punishment enough), but they should definitely not get the points back.
That being said, I'm surprised that there were no cases found of continued play after the difference was 3 games and the other player won (reducing the difference). Those games would be illegal as well, and the points gained from them deducted.
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On December 16 2009 19:16 Kennigit wrote:
editted out for butthurt..
Oh wow.
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On December 16 2009 13:05 Mamon wrote:
I would rise aside Dreiven'a in this situation as, there it is visible in a match sheet that Zazu, began to play before still for a long time protoss and terran because had not time to make the way in top, therefore here does not cause suspicion even these games.
On the other hand a day before ladder on December, 11th I was in such situation with 9800 pts and have decided to play too against B rank, I have lost 3-0(vs Whistler), but could and win, then me too ban?
I have no clue wtf you just said, but grats on playing all those ladder games!!!
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On December 16 2009 19:00 mzgk wrote:
seriously, what does it mean? @The TSL does not tolerate players who abuse or players that help others abuse.@? who is @The TSL@ btw? a couple of americans with overconfident world-justice-view? take off masks-)
how the fuck u can be assured that IP address of person who has helped to abuse is 100% of certain player? not his roommate,neighbour in the same house or even district with the same external IP? There is a possibility when hundreds of people have one unique fucking IP address, isn't there??? sure, in usa every single user has got static IP, so u can be definitely right when ban americans^^
did you check who was helping in getting freewins for Yosh, or others? why are only russians and ukrainians get involved in it?
i think all rest of ukrainians must boycott this circus!
PS Does PokerStrategy.com-staff approve your decisions?
Also i think it was Advokate's girlsfriend playing against Pomi's mother. They just wanted to fun game
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When it was huge maphack catching, many players also said some funny things. Localhost just "played with maphack training games to know timing", Hayder "just forgot to turn it off", i don't remember other words. Usually the truth is much more prosaic.
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On December 16 2009 19:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 19:20 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 14:05 TheYango wrote:On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder. A completely misinformed and bad-mannered attack on Incontrol, and he's not justified in a somewhat aggressive response? oh, in what way is it COMPLETLY misinformed? in what way is it bad mannered? get some brain then post again! Misinformed because I had addressed the issue several times and you hadn't informed yourself on the whole issue. I had in fact read the rules. It wasn't a reading issue. And it was bad mannered to go on and on about something that was already covered especially when you do it in a really negative way that is off-base as well. Also it is ironic for you to get pissy about someone saying you are lacking manner then you tell em to "get a brain" lol
Oh, when did I say that you didn't address the issue? When did I ever say it was a reading issue? I said it's a lame "excuse" that you "accidentally" broke that rule.
I went on and on on what? Your case? Don't give me shit, I was expressing my disappointment about you in my first post and never brought it up again! His post was about me addressing your case all my main line was about Dreiven vs ZaZu you're really confusing stuff here.
I'm not pissed about someone telling me im bad mannered. I know my personality very well and I know it doesn't suit many ppl. He said my "attack" (wasn't even an attack) was bad mannered and I'm COMPLETLY uninformed, thats simply not true. I was simply returning the shit he gave me. Maybe you have no reading problem but a comprehension problem?
you have a really bitchy way to communicate I really dislike. You pull stuff into ridicule by adding lol as a postfix to your posts. This is a belitteling of the case and you know that very well. À la "ye it happened, but common lets all just laugh about it". thats actually why I didn't wanted to argue with you.
P.S. you can send me a PM if you wanna talk about me, dont need to do it here.
On December 16 2009 20:24 kuku8 wrote:
When it was huge maphack catching, many players also said some funny things. Localhost just "played with maphack training games to know timing", Hayder "just forgot to turn it off", i don't remember other words. Usually the truth is much more prosaic.
Hayder used it as ObsMode as there weren't any ObsMode plugins arround at that time. I did that too and so did others who are not to stupid to use an evil tool in a good way.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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No one should state he's certain that giving dreiven a penalty was the right thing to do..
But then again I dont get how u can argue about the case. Dreiven made it through anyway and should he have not qualified for top 48 because of -Points for those games a discussion makes sense but as it stands - its just not that important, isnt it ?
I guess it was partly right and partly unjustified decision..
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great work by the admins! how many of them were checking these replays?
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It's just so hard to tell whether a game is actually thrown or not, the best you can do is look for suspicious circumstances, and thats exactly what they did here. I would probably bet that Drieven didn't abuse and they were actually legit games, but just really suspicious. Enough so that taking no action would make me uneasy. It doesn't really change anything, and probably won't affect anything about the tournament, but it sends a message for the next TSL that basically means a zero-tolerance abuse policy.
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On December 16 2009 19:00 mzgk wrote:
seriously, what does it mean? @The TSL does not tolerate players who abuse or players that help others abuse.@? who is @The TSL@ btw? a couple of americans with overconfident world-justice-view? take off masks-)
how the fuck u can be assured that IP address of person who has helped to abuse is 100% of certain player? not his roommate,neighbour in the same house or even district with the same external IP? There is a possibility when hundreds of people have one unique fucking IP address, isn't there??? sure, in usa every single user has got static IP, so u can be definitely right when ban americans^^
did you check who was helping in getting freewins for Yosh, or others? why are only russians and ukrainians get involved in it?
i think all rest of ukrainians must boycott this circus!
PS Does PokerStrategy.com-staff approve your decisions?
Hey, i found another player that has had points deducted from his rep and has many abuse and cheating allegations - you should definitely focus your attention on him.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/R1CH/Psm.png) TSL-VicYush
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ROFL
Why do you hate Protoss so much?
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On December 16 2009 20:28 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 19:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On December 16 2009 19:20 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 14:05 TheYango wrote:On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder. A completely misinformed and bad-mannered attack on Incontrol, and he's not justified in a somewhat aggressive response? oh, in what way is it COMPLETLY misinformed? in what way is it bad mannered? get some brain then post again! Misinformed because I had addressed the issue several times and you hadn't informed yourself on the whole issue. I had in fact read the rules. It wasn't a reading issue. And it was bad mannered to go on and on about something that was already covered especially when you do it in a really negative way that is off-base as well. Also it is ironic for you to get pissy about someone saying you are lacking manner then you tell em to "get a brain" lol Oh, when did I say that you didn't address the issue? When did I ever say it was a reading issue? I said it's a lame "excuse" that you "accidentally" broke that rule. I went on and on on what? Your case? Don't give me shit, I was expressing my disappointment about you in my first post and never brought it up again! His post was about me addressing your case all my main line was about Dreiven vs ZaZu you're really confusing stuff here. I'm not pissed about someone telling me im bad mannered. I know my personality very well and I know it doesn't suit many ppl. He said my "attack" (wasn't even an attack) was bad mannered and I'm COMPLETLY uninformed, thats simply not true. I was simply returning the shit he gave me. Maybe you have no reading problem but a comprehension problem? you have a really bitchy way to communicate I really dislike. You pull stuff into ridicule by adding lol as a postfix to your posts. This is a belitteling of the case and you know that very well. À la "ye it happened, but common lets all just laugh about it". thats actually why I didn't wanted to argue with you. P.S. you can send me a PM if you wanna talk about me, dont need to do it here. Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 20:24 kuku8 wrote:
When it was huge maphack catching, many players also said some funny things. Localhost just "played with maphack training games to know timing", Hayder "just forgot to turn it off", i don't remember other words. Usually the truth is much more prosaic. Hayder used it as ObsMode as there weren't any ObsMode plugins arround at that time. I did that too and so did others who are not to stupid to use an evil tool in a good way.
Or you could have put your wall of text in a PM and then not have to tell inc to do it with his response?
lol.
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On December 16 2009 19:16 Kennigit wrote:
editted out for butthurt.
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST.
Get your 4chan garbage out of here.
+ Show Spoiler +Someone probably would've done it anyway, eventually...
Anyways, great show admins, good luck with TSL! Hopefully things will go smoothly.
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On December 16 2009 22:08 Ao_Jun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2009 20:28 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 19:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On December 16 2009 19:20 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 14:05 TheYango wrote:On December 16 2009 07:22 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On December 16 2009 06:44 Dreiven wrote:
he was playing random vs me +_+.. the games were real and knowing that zazu plays a lot of all-ins and cheeses I was prepared for it. TL should look at replays 2nd time and see that there was nothing suspicious about it ^^ If we both weren't from poland this probably wouldn't be considered. I am totally with you. wtf is up here, "against the spirit of TSL". WTF. how can this gay ass dodging be the spirit of TSL? how can it be that some players get low punishment for violating the rules (only the points taken away). this is a disgrace to all the players trying hard to get into the top 48 and running against that wall just like the other abuse. im especially disappointet of incontrol. this dude hangs arround here and cant even follow the very simple rules. "oh I forgot, didn't count" or such a lame excuse is low in my opinion if you are playing the final stage of a 3 weeks ladder. A completely misinformed and bad-mannered attack on Incontrol, and he's not justified in a somewhat aggressive response? oh, in what way is it COMPLETLY misinformed? in what way is it bad mannered? get some brain then post again! Misinformed because I had addressed the issue several times and you hadn't informed yourself on the whole issue. I had in fact read the rules. It wasn't a reading issue. And it was bad mannered to go on and on about something that was already covered especially when you do it in a really negative way that is off-base as well. Also it is ironic for you to get pissy about someone saying you are lacking manner then you tell em to "get a brain" lol Oh, when did I say that you didn't address the issue? When did I ever say it was a reading issue? I said it's a lame "excuse" that you "accidentally" broke that rule. I went on and on on what? Your case? Don't give me shit, I was expressing my disappointment about you in my first post and never brought it up again! His post was about me addressing your case all my main line was about Dreiven vs ZaZu you're really confusing stuff here. I'm not pissed about someone telling me im bad mannered. I know my personality very well and I know it doesn't suit many ppl. He said my "attack" (wasn't even an attack) was bad mannered and I'm COMPLETLY uninformed, thats simply not true. I was simply returning the shit he gave me. Maybe you have no reading problem but a comprehension problem? you have a really bitchy way to communicate I really dislike. You pull stuff into ridicule by adding lol as a postfix to your posts. This is a belitteling of the case and you know that very well. À la "ye it happened, but common lets all just laugh about it". thats actually why I didn't wanted to argue with you. P.S. you can send me a PM if you wanna talk about me, dont need to do it here. On December 16 2009 20:24 kuku8 wrote:
When it was huge maphack catching, many players also said some funny things. Localhost just "played with maphack training games to know timing", Hayder "just forgot to turn it off", i don't remember other words. Usually the truth is much more prosaic. Hayder used it as ObsMode as there weren't any ObsMode plugins arround at that time. I did that too and so did others who are not to stupid to use an evil tool in a good way. Or you could have put your wall of text in a PM and then not have to tell inc to do it with his response? lol.
or you could learn what a wall of text is and until then just stfu.
lol
User was temp-banned for this post
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On December 16 2009 12:21 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Nice try though.. I appreciate you breaking down my argument and pulling it apart out of context.
Well, then read your previous post, the one that I quoted. At first you sounded reasonable, then you used words that make Dreiven a definite abuser, even using caps lock to highlight this. And in the end, my breaking of your words was only to undermine your logic, but not to deny the point that his actions were "shady", we both agree on this so stop being angry at me because I pointed out something you wrote. Peace.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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On December 16 2009 20:24 kuku8 wrote:
When it was huge maphack catching, many players also said some funny things. Localhost just "played with maphack training games to know timing", Hayder "just forgot to turn it off", i don't remember other words. Usually the truth is much more prosaic.
Agreed. Prisons are full of innocent ppl if u ask the inmates :D.
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