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yepjan
3 Posts
On March 24 2021 16:03 ExpatRights wrote: Serral lol? Dude got famous beating Europeans, hasn't been really top tier in 3 years now. Clem lol? Dude can win but.. destroying? Yea, in a few sets, I guess. haha so mad coz those 3 are better | ||
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Sprog
New Zealand61 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3664 Posts
On March 24 2021 16:03 ExpatRights wrote: Serral lol? Dude got famous beating Europeans, hasn't been really top tier in 3 years now. Clem lol? Dude can win but.. destroying? Yea, in a few sets, I guess. Serral is at his lowest point in the last 3 years and he is top tier without any doubt, he became famous beating koreans(yes, effectively destroying anyone koreans included when he was at his apex); Serral has a 69.6% win ratio in maps and 81% in series against koreans since 2018... I wouldn't say they have been "destroying" top koreans, in the last year Serral has had the same win ratio against them than in the last three years, Reynor has had 59%wr in maps and 67% in matches, Clem almost 50% for both(dragged down by his TvT especially, even if recently he has improved in this regard). Top 3 foreigners are better than most of the koreans and on par with the top ones in this new Age of Parity. Maru's statement here is as deluded as the one of the most elitists, Reynor had already beaten him in the past and only narrowly lost their last encounter, judging him a bad player is foolish; Reynor wouldn't have won 5-0 either but he could have gone "4-1" if he abandoned lurkers after seeing he wasn't prevailing. Anyway, the match was close and Maru could have won it; he shouldn't have in any of case, Reynor advanced deservingly. | ||
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Elentos
54319 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland15629 Posts
On March 25 2021 04:42 Elentos wrote: Maybe TL should hire Maru to provide some hot takes for the writing team. All he had to do is make one incredibly obvious joke and people instantly start shit in the recap thread. I feel TL should hold off to see if him making one cheeky line after a decade of saying nothing in interviews is indicative of a trend rather than being an outlier | ||
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atchosvk
42 Posts
On March 24 2021 16:03 ExpatRights wrote: Serral lol? Dude got famous beating Europeans, hasn't been really top tier in 3 years now. Clem lol? Dude can win but.. destroying? Yea, in a few sets, I guess. You are in absolute denial it's painful to watch. There is clearly a European dominance in the scene. It's not taking a few sets, it's consistently having top Eu players beating Koreans at pretty much all events for the past 3 years with Serral leading the way. You have to understand Korea has the highest level of play on average but not the best players anymore, it's a thing from the past! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic10908 Posts
On March 25 2021 20:25 atchosvk wrote: You are in absolute denial it's painful to watch. There is clearly a European dominance in the scene. It's not taking a few sets, it's consistently having top Eu players beating Koreans at pretty much all events for the past 3 years with Serral leading the way. You have to understand Korea has the highest level of play on average but not the best players anymore, it's a thing from the past! Past 3 years you say? 2018: IEM WC won by Rogue(0:1), runner up Classic(0:1) Blizzcon WC won by Serral(1:1), runner up Stats(0:2) 2019: Katowice WC won by soO(1:2), runner up Stats(0:3) Blizzcon WC won by Dark(1:3), runner up Reynor(1:3) 2020: Katowice won by Rogue(1:4), runner up Zest(1:4) 2021: Katowice online won by Reynor(2:4), runner up Zest(1:5) Out of the world championship titles, which should be the highest title and show the suggested dominance of the top players, foreigners won 2 out 6, no foreign player was able to win more than one. In the meantime Rogue won 2, Stats and Zest has two second places. The dominance, ladies and gentlemans. The dominance while losing 2:4 for titles and 1:5 for the second places of the most prestigious titles. These are your best players, Serral - who was unable to appear more than once and Reynor, who appeared twice, but unlike Rogue wasn't able to win twice. The dominance of the past 3 years! The dominance of having 3 appears out of 12. The dominance of having 2 players while Korea was able to push into finals 6 different players(Dark, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Classic, soO). The foreign Protoss dominance or Terran dominance where none of these races was able to achieve anything notable while having the best players and dominating Koreans. | ||
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tigera6
43 Posts
On March 25 2021 20:25 atchosvk wrote: You are in absolute denial it's painful to watch. There is clearly a European dominance in the scene. It's not taking a few sets, it's consistently having top Eu players beating Koreans at pretty much all events for the past 3 years with Serral leading the way. You have to understand Korea has the highest level of play on average but not the best players anymore, it's a thing from the past! EU is closing the gap real quick on KR, and you might say that they have 2 top players in the world considering how 2020 played out. That is still FAR AWAY from what you are saying that EU is dominating the scence. Serral is having issue beating top KR Zerg and Protoss for the last couple months. Reynor were winning A LOT of close series which could have gone the other way around. And Clem is still chasing his first global title, and he should start winnning some pretty soon. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3664 Posts
On March 25 2021 22:19 deacon.frost wrote: Past 3 years you say? 2018: IEM WC won by Rogue(0:1), runner up Classic(0:1) Blizzcon WC won by Serral(1:1), runner up Stats(0:2) 2019: Katowice WC won by soO(1:2), runner up Stats(0:3) Blizzcon WC won by Dark(1:3), runner up Reynor(1:3) 2020: Katowice won by Rogue(1:4), runner up Zest(1:4) 2021: Katowice online won by Reynor(2:4), runner up Zest(1:5) Out of the world championship titles, which should be the highest title and show the suggested dominance of the top players, foreigners won 2 out 6, no foreign player was able to win more than one. In the meantime Rogue won 2, Stats and Zest has two second places. The dominance, ladies and gentlemans. The dominance while losing 2:4 for titles and 1:5 for the second places of the most prestigious titles. These are your best players, Serral - who was unable to appear more than once and Reynor, who appeared twice, but unlike Rogue wasn't able to win twice. The dominance of the past 3 years! The dominance of having 3 appears out of 12. The dominance of having 2 players while Korea was able to push into finals 6 different players(Dark, Rogue, Zest, Stats, Classic, soO). The foreign Protoss dominance or Terran dominance where none of these races was able to achieve anything notable while having the best players and dominating Koreans. EU players aren't dominating the scene, it's not true. Considering only World Championships doesn't show the whole picture and, even then, non koreans aren't doing that bad. If we take every international Premier tournament in consideration, we find out that koreans and non koreans are essentially tied when it comes to winning in the last three years: it's 11-12 for koreans(including the very dubious GPC that Inno won) and 8-15 as far as second places go. There are still more koreans who are championship contenders but at the very top it's at worst even and below that there are more foreign players than koreans. Now, failing to understand why non korean champions draw so much interest truly surprises me. HoTS has been absolute korean domination so non korean audience was truly pleased to see someone else rising his level of play and actually win titles: this happens every time in traditional sports heavily dominated by a region(eg:Dekkers winning Muay Thai championships in Thailand). Also, unlike what happened many times in the past, those new non korean champions weren't overhyped or just a fluke; they consistently showcased their skills as championships contenders and won repeatedly(still are and most likely will be). Does it seem weird to you that a consistent part of the non korean casters and non korean viewers appreciate non korean top players? I don't know how many interviews Rogue had in Korea last year, you find weird that Reynor, first in the history of Sc2 of winning Katowice not being a korean, is getting interwieved nonstop(outside of Korea)? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland15629 Posts
Serral and Reynor are in the global top bracket of best players around, Dark’s there, Rogue’s there, TY is there if it’s GSL, Stats, Trap and recently Zest are there too. If there’s a tier beneath that featuring perpetually dangerous players who could pull a run together, Clem’s in there, Inno’ long dropped into this tier given his form, Parting kinda wavers between tiers, etc. Probably Byun and Cure belong here too. Then tier 3 you’ve got a bunch of players good enough to take almost anyone in the world out on a good day, if not regularly back-to-back in making good runs, and is most of your Ro16 level GSL players plus Heromarine, Showtime, Special alongside the Armani’s of this world. Which is a crude tier system, but it’s a gigantic closing of the gap. Back in the day foreigners, even in Stephano’s heyday didn’t have a single tier 1 player, nobody if anyone in tier 2 and relatively few even making tier 3. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8187 Posts
On March 23 2021 21:10 CynicalDeath wrote: I like how a reverse sweep in Katowice's SF coming from the then-to-be World Champion (who, btw, clearly ouplayed him in all 5 games' early phases) is called "big steal"... you can say Maru threw g4 (his fault tbh so no steal even there) but in g3 and g5, Maru got overconfident and was outclassed pretty big time... g5 also was one of the best games of the season so what was stolen there? :D I think the idea people get at is that had the early phases/build orders not gone beyond exceedingly well for Reynor, it wouldn't have even been close. That and terran winning cross server TvZ just wasn't a thing. Reynor had some stars-aligning types of handouts in that series and it was still the closest match of the tournament. Saying that Maru got "outclassed" in g5 after Reynor had a lead no zerg should lose from the opening, and still almost lost if not for suprise fungals, is a bit of a joke. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8187 Posts
On March 23 2021 18:11 Drfilip wrote: This time Matu didn't lose the code A bo5 vs eventual champion Zest, missing his PartinG award in the process. I like it better with one sided series where the underdog is playing for maps instad of seeing potential champions eliminate each other. He didn't just miss his PartinG award, he would have doubled the NesTea award with 20 Code S consecutive appearnces. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic10908 Posts
On March 26 2021 02:05 Xain0n wrote: + Show Spoiler + EU players aren't dominating the scene, it's not true. Considering only World Championships doesn't show the whole picture and, even then, non koreans aren't doing that bad. If we take every international Premier tournament in consideration, we find out that koreans and non koreans are essentially tied when it comes to winning in the last three years: it's 11-12 for koreans(including the very dubious GPC that Inno won) and 8-15 as far as second places go. There are still more koreans who are championship contenders but at the very top it's at worst even and below that there are more foreign players than koreans. Now, failing to understand why non korean champions draw so much interest truly surprises me. HoTS has been absolute korean domination so non korean audience was truly pleased to see someone else rising his level of play and actually win titles: this happens every time in traditional sports heavily dominated by a region(eg:Dekkers winning Muay Thai championships in Thailand). Also, unlike what happened many times in the past, those new non korean champions weren't overhyped or just a fluke; they consistently showcased their skills as championships contenders and won repeate Does it seem weird to you that a consistent part of the non korean casters and non korean viewers appreciate non korean top players? I don't know how many interviews Rogue had in Korea last year, you find weird that Reynor, first in the history of Sc2 of winning Katowice not being a korean, is getting interwieved nonstop(outside of Korea)? Then they need to stop fucking pretending they're doing internation coverage without having favorites. Harstem having favorites is fine, Winter having favorites is fine - they both never pretended otherwise. Some didn't and don't. Which is my point. Either they stop hypocrisy around their neutrality or I will call them up, I don't see anythign wrong with that. | ||
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