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Northern Ireland26718 Posts
On November 03 2020 17:45 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2020 17:30 661 wrote:On November 03 2020 17:16 Zambrah wrote:
Terrans winning might make me generally dry heave, but if any Terran is gonna win TY is one I’m capable of genuinely being happy for, plus Maru losing does my heart good. Why? Whats wrong with Maru? He’s the kind of Terran that has dominant streaks that make me bored of the game. It stops being who will win?! and becomes *yawn* Maru doesn’t have TvT guess he wins why bother watching. Rogue and Bo7s is on that same boring level, and I’d think the same of Serral and Reynor too if they didn’t stir so much dumb community shit up since I like to read the drama lol. Overall, predictability in SC2 is something I find boring, TY is at least the kind of player that can do weird stuff to liven games up. Also I grew up with GomTvT and I’m a Protoss fan, so I’m predisposed to dislike Terran from my WoL genetics.
He’s a player I have the utmost respect for, but he’s not exactly Mr Charisma either
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On November 03 2020 18:24 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2020 17:57 sneakyfox wrote:On November 03 2020 09:05 Fango wrote:On November 03 2020 04:08 Elentos wrote:On November 03 2020 03:42 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2020 03:12 Pandemona wrote:TY with 2 Code S wins out of 3 and a top 4 placement in the other, i think for me that cements him as the best player in Korea for 2020? I'm sad Maru didn't get his G5L trophy but i cannot begrudge TY on how he seemingly retired into the casting world to come back into the scene in his best form ever, crazy! Great write up too  Don't know, Maru had a good run at Katowice, won ST and King of Battles. But probably TY it is, but it would be much easier to tell had he had a better result at Katowice or ST. ST + King of Battles is nowhere near 2 Code S come on now. Rogue has a better case. TY being outstanding in GSL but invisible in other tournaments is a bit strange though. It is, and it's the same with Stats (although he has started to win some ESL cups). What is it with these KT/Splyce/Afreeca bois  Is it actually strange considering almost every noteworthy tournament this year has been an online event running at the same time as Code S? It's pretty undeniable that the prep format of Code S was his primary focus. Also not like it's complete invisibility what with us being 1 map away from KoB and Code S having the same finals.
No their priorities are pretty clear and I do think they are the way they should be. It's just that the lack of online results has been the tendency for more than just this year (online Stats is basically a meme).
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On November 03 2020 04:04 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2020 03:22 rogzardo_ wrote:
This series taught me that tvt banshees are good Banshees suck because everyone in TvT opens raven, and usually 1-2 cyclones. TY just worked out when Maru wasn't going raven (Ice and Chrome + Golden Wall) and basically won the games with a cloak banshee(s).
So what you're saying is Banshees suck, except when they are good?
Every unit can be countered.
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well banshees kinda suck. Unless you use em to backstab someone defenseless, then they are awesome. Btw TY went cloaked banshee as a response to double rax reaper.
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Great finals, but Maru was just off. TY did his thing and punished Maru for not using Ravems and being agressive. Maru played like shit tho, in 2018 TY read Maru sucessfully every game but still lost because Maru was way better at everything else. Maru didn't even come close to that magic this time.
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Best GSL finals for this year by far
We need more Golden Wall
That map is amazing, lots of unpredictability
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On November 03 2020 17:30 661 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2020 17:16 Zambrah wrote:
Terrans winning might make me generally dry heave, but if any Terran is gonna win TY is one I’m capable of genuinely being happy for, plus Maru losing does my heart good. Why? Whats wrong with Maru?
A Protoss player enjoys players who plays
coinflips prepared over a week for a living. What a surprise!
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Northern Ireland26718 Posts
On November 04 2020 01:26 Morbidius wrote:
Great finals, but Maru was just off. TY did his thing and punished Maru for not using Ravems and being agressive. Maru played like shit tho, in 2018 TY read Maru sucessfully every game but still lost because Maru was way better at everything else. Maru didn't even come close to that magic this time.
I wish I could play as shit as Maru...
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TY deserved this no doubt. But to be honest I don't cheer for him for so many years wanting to be the best all the time, but because of his clever and flexible gameplay through all those years. It is extremely hard to say who was better in this final. TY got some precise decision making which helped him in some situations, but after all both TY and Maru are top. May be the reason I never cheered for Maru previously is that he is not the only prodigy in this e-sport scene and TY deserved this legendary spot. Statistics can only mislead, those are two amazing players.
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On November 04 2020 01:50 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2020 01:26 Morbidius wrote:
Great finals, but Maru was just off. TY did his thing and punished Maru for not using Ravems and being agressive. Maru played like shit tho, in 2018 TY read Maru sucessfully every game but still lost because Maru was way better at everything else. Maru didn't even come close to that magic this time. I wish I could play as shit as Maru...
He played like shit by Maru standards, not by your standards. TY read him like a book in 2018 as well, but could not translate build order wins into a overall win because Maru was much better. Saying a player is playing badly compared to the most dominant and sucessful run in SC2 history should not be controversial in a very experienced forum, but everyone is so insecucure due to Blizzard dropping support so here we are.
Maru died twice to banshees in a Raven meta, that was shit, lets not pretend it wasn't.
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On November 04 2020 01:32 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2020 17:30 661 wrote:On November 03 2020 17:16 Zambrah wrote:
Terrans winning might make me generally dry heave, but if any Terran is gonna win TY is one I’m capable of genuinely being happy for, plus Maru losing does my heart good. Why? Whats wrong with Maru? A Protoss player enjoys players who plays coinflips prepared over a week for a living. What a surprise!
Ha, jokes on you I prefer weekenders!
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Northern Ireland26718 Posts
On November 04 2020 02:54 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2020 01:50 WombaT wrote:On November 04 2020 01:26 Morbidius wrote:
Great finals, but Maru was just off. TY did his thing and punished Maru for not using Ravems and being agressive. Maru played like shit tho, in 2018 TY read Maru sucessfully every game but still lost because Maru was way better at everything else. Maru didn't even come close to that magic this time. I wish I could play as shit as Maru... He played like shit by Maru standards, not by your standards. TY read him like a book in 2018 as well, but could not translate build order wins into a overall win because Maru was much better. Saying a player is playing badly compared to the most dominant and sucessful run in SC2 history should not be controversial in a very experienced forum, but everyone is so insecucure due to Blizzard dropping support so here we are. Maru died twice to banshees in a Raven meta, that was shit, lets not pretend it wasn't.
You said he played like shit, if you had merely solely said he wasn’t at his imperious best compared to his previous finals then sure.
What does insecurity have to do with it? Outside of hardcore fanboys I imagine most were merely looking a decent or better final with both participants showing up, and I think we got that.
As to why TY got so much work done with banshees, hey I’m not sure. TY analysed the series but alas I don’t speak Korean. Given how great Maru was in King of Battles just recently maybe he took some gambles in build choices to throw TY off and got punished heavily.
There aren’t many players who have risky build gambits pay off as consistently as Maru has over the years, maybe the JAGW build strategising committee got it wrong this series.
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On November 04 2020 02:54 Morbidius wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On November 04 2020 01:50 WombaT wrote:
On November 04 2020 01:26 Morbidius wrote:
Great finals, but Maru was just off. TY did his thing and punished Maru for not using Ravems and being agressive. Maru played like shit tho, in 2018 TY read Maru sucessfully every game but still lost because Maru was way better at everything else. Maru didn't even come close to that magic this time.
I wish I could play as shit as Maru...
He played like shit by Maru standards, not by your standards. TY read him like a book in 2018 as well, but could not translate build order wins into a overall win because Maru was much better. Saying a player is playing badly compared to the most dominant and sucessful run in SC2 history should not be controversial in a very experienced forum, but everyone is so insecucure due to Blizzard dropping support so here we are.
Maru died twice to banshees in a Raven meta, that was shit, lets not pretend it wasn't.
I definitely don't agree with much of what you say. TY's TvT has consistently been in the top one or two terran players for several years in a row. Maru's is excellent, but his real strength has always been vs. other races. There have been times that he has been vulnerable to several terran players in good form and it has stopped his run (think Gumiho, aLive etc.)
Maru is a better player overall, but TY is arguably more rounded in this MU. I watch a lot of both of their games. I think that Maru's army control is amazing and his crisis management superb. He has excellent game sense and excellent reactive play. I think he is used to just using this amazing skillset to wear down his opponent. Against TY this is less likely to happen. He was often out positioned and TY made some excellent strategic decisions that put Maru on the backfoot in this series. Maru seemed more content to make larger army pushes and was hurt by TY's ability to skirmish multiple places at once.
I think TY got the best of many of the openings in the series. Banshees might be out of the meta, but if Maru hadn't have been as aggressive in G5 it's not like they would have put TY that far behind. They should still be used at least once in a long series and TY would have prepared it as a follow up to his initial harassment. They worked particularly well because Maru was being aggressive, but in that case something has to give. If he wasn't aggressive he would have gone to the mid-game with a slight advantage, but not one that would definitely have decided the game. In G2, TY might well have built them as a reaction to double reaper, knowing that Maru may skip tech such as cyclones after delaying his tank tech to get 2rax.
In regards to 2018 TY almost beat Maru who was at his peak, however I don't think TY was in his top form. He seemed to be performing much better in 2017. I wouldn't say that TY read Maru particularly well in that series. Maru opened proxies many times, and of course TY was going to scout it/be aware of it. It was no secret this was going to happen. Maru had mixed success, in which the games came out in reasonable positions for them both (he was certainly not out of the games). In G3 or 4 (not the ultra late game battlecruiser one) it snowballed to a win for Maru. Watch the replays in game 6 and 7 in which Maru had to win to keep the series alive. TY had a great opportunity to win in game 6 after getting the best of the early game if he had have been more aggressive. In game 7 Maru bet it all on a 2 base push. He would have lost if A) TY scouted better or B) wasn't as greedy. To me it seemed like a very even series and they were probably only seperated by a bit of decisiveness.
Either way, both players played excellently in both series and were not separated by much. Saying Maru wasn't good takes away from one of the best finals in GSL, from TY's level and from Maru himself who's control seemed as good as ever (look at his reaper control and some of his engagements when he was behind which prolonged game 2 and 6). Maru has been known for years for his ability to win complex 2 base situations like on Golden Wall and Submarine, but a few days ago he was outthought and just slightly outplayed by the best TvT player in GSL history (check the all time stats if you want, it's not even close).
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Not a bad performance at all, considering Maru is historically least confident in his TvT (even if statistics say otherwise). He seemed pretty tilted or disjointed towards the end of it all, but that doesn't take away from TY being on a whole other level lately. Hell of a series and definitely the most competitive and exciting finals this year. The final score doesn't speak to the quality of the games; it could have easily been a 4-3 if TY had only made a few more mistakes.
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TY is the best Terran right now. Incredible finals.
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On November 03 2020 22:39 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2020 04:04 Fango wrote:On November 03 2020 03:22 rogzardo_ wrote:
This series taught me that tvt banshees are good Banshees suck because everyone in TvT opens raven, and usually 1-2 cyclones. TY just worked out when Maru wasn't going raven (Ice and Chrome + Golden Wall) and basically won the games with a cloak banshee(s). So what you're saying is Banshees suck, except when they are good? Every unit can be countered.
I'm saying they suck because their respective counter (raven-cyclone) is part of every standard TvT opener and has been for a while. It's rare for anyone to open without at least 2 ravens and 1 cyclone unless they're going for a fast tank-viking push.
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Only now do I realize that the 42nd finals ended 4-2, as is tradition!
On August 15 2020 18:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Rogue gifted g4 just so that we continue the
40th finals -> 4-0
41th finals -> 4-1
trend. The real GOAT ! Can't wait for soO to lose 4-2 in next season finals !
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watched this late, almost 2 months later, it was an amazing series. Game 5 was something else.
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On November 07 2020 07:14 sneakyfox wrote:Only now do I realize that the 42nd finals ended 4-2, as is tradition! Show nested quote +On August 15 2020 18:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Rogue gifted g4 just so that we continue the
40th finals -> 4-0
41th finals -> 4-1
trend. The real GOAT ! Can't wait for soO to lose 4-2 in next season finals !
mindblowing . Technically this trend can't go on forever but here is another good reason to be longing for the 43th - not like we were needing one anyway !
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Both of the players are poster children for why I still watch competitive SC2 daily, just mind blowing how good some of these series in the last few years have been.
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EPT
