On November 14 2014 11:27 Yakikorosu wrote: WCS points? Cool... so despite being the "last big match" it's actually the FIRST match of the next WCS season.
Is MarineKing qualifying for this really more amazing than skyhigh or even Terminator? I mean we saw MK-no-longer-P play in Proleague and it's not like he was a scrub. But yeah, with soO in the group of death I sense an all P/T bracket stage incoming...
yup I definitely think WCS points should be rewarded. I thought it was unfortunately all those tournaments post blizzcon pre 2014 didn't contribute to this year's ranking. Rain could have potentially made blizzcon if he got points for winning last year's hot6 cup.
On November 14 2014 11:44 movac wrote: yup I definitely think WCS points should be rewarded. I thought it was unfortunately all those tournaments post blizzcon pre 2014 didn't contribute to this year's ranking. Rain could have potentially made blizzcon if he got points for winning last year's hot6 cup.
Last year, Hot6ix Cup was an invite-only tournament so it didn't qualify to give WCS points--you need to have an open qualifier to award WCS points. As I understand for this same reason, DreamHack Winter isn't eligible to give WCS points.
lol, Marineking qualified only to be put into the second hardest group of the tournament. At least Flash got a group that gives him a realistic shot at advancing.
A: Innovation and Hero- No explanation. These two are just the best in their groups. B: Rain and sOs- Soo is in a huge slump and Baby isn't THAT good...but he might make it out. C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players. D; Zest and Parting- No explanation needed
On November 14 2014 13:45 swag_bro wrote: A: Innovation and Hero- No explanation. These two are just the best in their groups. B: Rain and sOs- Soo is in a huge slump and Baby isn't THAT good...but he might make it out. C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players. D; Zest and Parting- No explanation needed
On November 14 2014 13:49 swag_bro wrote: Taeja and Life are the only players I can see winning a GSL anytime soon.
You're just full of interesting opinions today, aren't you?
On November 14 2014 11:44 movac wrote: yup I definitely think WCS points should be rewarded. I thought it was unfortunately all those tournaments post blizzcon pre 2014 didn't contribute to this year's ranking. Rain could have potentially made blizzcon if he got points for winning last year's hot6 cup.
Last year, Hot6ix Cup was an invite-only tournament so it didn't qualify to give WCS points--you need to have an open qualifier to award WCS points. As I understand for this same reason, DreamHack Winter isn't eligible to give WCS points.
explain why homestory cup x has no wcs points on offer then even though it always has open qualifiers?
On November 14 2014 14:02 GTR wrote: i'm sorry, but if Homestory Cup X isn't providing WCS points because it was intended as an end-of-year off period tournament, then this shouldn't as well. also aren't the stipulations of WCS tournaments are that they use the current ladder map pool?
I think to give WCS points at least 25% of spots for participating in a tournament have to be determined by open qualifier. HSC9, which gave WCS points, had 8/32 from open bracket. HSC10 has only 4/32 from open bracket. So maybe that's the reason.
Edit: Yeah, here's the link with that requirement (at least this is the one for the 2014 season):
On November 14 2014 14:02 GTR wrote: i'm sorry, but if Homestory Cup X isn't providing WCS points because it was intended as an end-of-year off period tournament, then this shouldn't as well.
HSC invited 28/32 players. Hot6ix Cup invited 6/32, 4 of them based on GSL performance. I'm perfectly at peace with this awarding WCS points when HSC does not. That and are you really complaining about Koreans having too many opportunities to rack up WCS points?
also aren't the stipulations of WCS tournaments are that they use the current ladder map pool?
That's an interesting question. I imagine Blizzard got in touch with the usual suspects and told them they could reuse the previous map pool for tournament play. There's no way we're awarding WCS points off of XNC in 2015...
WCS points... Like, for 2015? While we're in 2014? That's a bit strange (also they'll use the S3 map pool probably, which is contrary to the WCS requirements) Gogo herO, soO, Zest, Flash, sOs and the Bbyongwa ! And predictions : Group A : herO[jOin], INnoVation Group B : Rain, sOs Group C : Classic, Soulkey Group D : Zest, Bbyong Then Rain, herO[jOin] or Zest to win it all
On November 14 2014 13:45 swag_bro wrote: A: Innovation and Hero- No explanation. These two are just the best in their groups. B: Rain and sOs- Soo is in a huge slump and Baby isn't THAT good...but he might make it out. C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players. D; Zest and Parting- No explanation needed
no love for skyhigh or classic
also explanation is indeed needed for PartinG over Bbyong, Bbyong smashed him last time they played. and I think you're underestimating Stats a lot
On November 14 2014 13:45 swag_bro wrote: A: Innovation and Hero- No explanation. These two are just the best in their groups. B: Rain and sOs- Soo is in a huge slump and Baby isn't THAT good...but he might make it out. C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players. D; Zest and Parting- No explanation needed
no love for skyhigh or classic
also explanation is indeed needed for PartinG over Bbyong, Bbyong smashed him last time they played. and I think you're underestimating Stats a lot
Classic can't take a game off Flash or Soulkey? soO's in a "huge slump" because he just barely lost to Taeja in one of the most competitive, high-skill series of the year? No explanation needed for the claim that Bbyong has no chance against PartinG?
On November 14 2014 13:45 swag_bro wrote: A: Innovation and Hero- No explanation. These two are just the best in their groups. B: Rain and sOs- Soo is in a huge slump and Baby isn't THAT good...but he might make it out. C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players. D; Zest and Parting- No explanation needed
no love for skyhigh or classic
also explanation is indeed needed for PartinG over Bbyong, Bbyong smashed him last time they played. and I think you're underestimating Stats a lot
Classic can't take a game off Flash or Soulkey? soO's in a "huge slump" because he just barely lost to Taeja in one of the most competitive, high-skill series of the year? No explanation needed for the claim that Bbyong has no chance against PartinG?
On November 14 2014 11:14 Brutaxilos wrote: All four brackets seem pretty stacked, can't decide a group of death imo.
Seriously, 4 groups of death, this tournament is more stacked than Blizzcon.
Honestly, I have way higher expectations for both the players and the results of this than I did for Blizzcon. Blizzcon just isn't a very good setting for a tournament, as can be seen from the last two Blizzcon finals.......
On November 14 2014 11:44 movac wrote: yup I definitely think WCS points should be rewarded. I thought it was unfortunately all those tournaments post blizzcon pre 2014 didn't contribute to this year's ranking. Rain could have potentially made blizzcon if he got points for winning last year's hot6 cup.
Last year, Hot6ix Cup was an invite-only tournament so it didn't qualify to give WCS points--you need to have an open qualifier to award WCS points. As I understand for this same reason, DreamHack Winter isn't eligible to give WCS points.
explain why homestory cup x has no wcs points on offer then even though it always has open qualifiers?
"WCS Events with 32 or more players: At least 25% of the total spots must be attainable through an open qualifier"
On November 14 2014 14:02 GTR wrote: i'm sorry, but if Homestory Cup X isn't providing WCS points because it was intended as an end-of-year off period tournament, then this shouldn't as well.
HSC invited 28/32 players. Hot6ix Cup invited 6/32, 4 of them based on GSL performance. I'm perfectly at peace with this awarding WCS points when HSC does not. That and are you really complaining about Koreans having too many opportunities to rack up WCS points?
also aren't the stipulations of WCS tournaments are that they use the current ladder map pool?
That's an interesting question. I imagine Blizzard got in touch with the usual suspects and told them they could reuse the previous map pool for tournament play. There's no way we're awarding WCS points off of XNC in 2015...
From WCS 2015 announcement:
Map Pool
WCS Season Maps (same as ladder during the WCS season)
The qualifiers should use the same map pool as the actual onsite event. If this is not possible due to the timeline of the qualifier and a map pool update, the live map pool should be used for the qualifier. This is not a requirement during the WCS off-season.
A: INno and herO (though Stats was starting to look really good a few months ago) B: Rain and soO (sOs would not surprise me at all; TY I think is a bit of an underdog outside of a Bo1 setting) C: Classic and Flash (Probably the most predictable group; it's been a loooong time since I've been impressed with one of Soulkey's games, and the players Soulkey beat to qualify (CranK, GuMiho, Dream and Sorry) are not elite players) D: Zest and PartinG (I'm just not fully sold on Bbyong yet; his TvP has always looked overly reliant on SCV pulls to me)
On November 14 2014 15:11 Yakikorosu wrote: I predict...
A: INno and herO (though Stats was starting to look really good a few months ago) B: Rain and soO (sOs would not surprise me at all; TY I think is a bit of an underdog outside of a Bo1 setting) C: Classic and Flash (Probably the most predictable group; it's been a loooong time since I've been impressed with one of Soulkey's games, and the players Soulkey beat to qualify (CranK, GuMiho, Dream and Sorry) are not elite players) D: Zest and PartinG (I'm just not fully sold on Bbyong yet; his TvP has always looked overly reliant on SCV pulls to me)
Gumiho's been playing really well lately. Beating him is not as meaningless as it was through most of HOTS.
Group A: Innovation & herO, hands down. Group B:sOs and TY, or sOs and Rain. I don't see soO winning after that loss in Ro16 of Blizzcon, that guy mental must be wrecked by now. Group C: Classic & Soulkey/Flash (always let room for Flash). Group D: Zest/Bbyong (the second being a matter of personal faith, I could maybe see PartinG advancing in his place).
On November 14 2014 11:27 Yakikorosu wrote: WCS points? Cool... so despite being the "last big match" it's actually the FIRST match of the next WCS season.
Think if any player in the top 16 is overrated ATM that is herO, haven't seen him winning game in quite a while, therefore:
Group A: InnoVation, Stats Group B: sOs, soO (Rain is gonna be last IMO, but IDK - TY is strong) Group C: Classic, Flash Group D: Bbyong, Zest
(Now IDK how the Bracket is gonna form, but will face-off A and B and C and D for some reason)
Innovation - soO = fml, this is gonna be the series of the tourney - soO wins it 3:2 though Stats - sOs = this is the one I mostly "risked" for prediction - think sOs gonna win it though Classic - Zest = PvP - probably Zest, a bit more stable over Classic Flash - Bbyong = hah, no matter how good flash is - it's TvT so IDK (probably flash gonna take it cause think thre's some crisis ATM in CJ roster squad)
sOs - soO - sOs wins it (might be overrating him, but think he's one of the most versatile innovative Protosses with a very strict execution) Zest - Flash - well isn't this what everyone wants ? - err - Flash takes it (random pick of the two, lol)
sOs - Flash - Flash takes it
Well - I kinda feel weird/bad for predicting not so impressive player to win the tourney.. I mean - he's damn good, but not so sure if he's got what it takes to win the whole tourney, lol
On November 14 2014 18:38 Ragnarork wrote: Group B:sOs and TY, or sOs and Rain. I don't see soO winning after that loss in Ro16 of Blizzcon, that guy mental must be wrecked by now.
People said that after he lost his third consecutive GSL finals.
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
I think that would mean IEM San Jose gets WCS points as well?
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
They already got wcs points for "the qualifier" though
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
I think that would mean IEM San Jose gets WCS points as well?
Pretty much it.
I understand they really want guys from Korea to be at Blizzcon, but that's maybe pushing it a little bit too much
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
They already got wcs points for "the qualifier" though
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
I think that would mean IEM San Jose gets WCS points as well?
Pretty much it.
I understand they really want guys from Korea to be at Blizzcon, but that's maybe pushing it a little bit too much
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
They already got wcs points for "the qualifier" though
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
I think that would mean IEM San Jose gets WCS points as well?
Pretty much it.
I understand they really want guys from Korea to be at Blizzcon, but that's maybe pushing it a little bit too much
But wasn't Blizzard's goal having foreigners at BlizzCon? I mean, with the unified WCS, Code S + the SpoTV thing, KeSPA allowing more Koreans to go to foreign tournaments next year, and WCS points being given here as well I fear the best ranked foreigners in 2015 WCS rankings will be even lower than this year, unless Snute enters godmode...
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
I think that would mean IEM San Jose gets WCS points as well?
Pretty much it.
I understand they really want guys from Korea to be at Blizzcon, but that's maybe pushing it a little bit too much
But wasn't Blizzard's goal having foreigners at BlizzCon? I mean, with the unified WCS, Code S + the SpoTV thing, KeSPA allowing more Koreans to go to foreign tournaments next year, and WCS points being given here as well I fear the best ranked foreigners in 2015 WCS rankings will be even lower than this year, unless Snute enters godmode...
The way I see it is that Blizzard realised that Blizzcon will be all Korean, so they might as well have the best Koreans. That said, we don't know the 2015 Blizzcon format. We might have 32 players, they might even give a spot each to the 3 WCS winners.
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
Well, that's what they did with RB BG, wasn't it? So... maybe they will grant WCS points for DH? I think that'd just be fair now, tbh.
Wow that group B.. and Soulkey actually has decent shot of making it past first round! Alright! Oh and Bbyong literally cannot lose against PartinG, it's gonna be really sad.
On November 14 2014 19:42 Pino wrote: Well in this case, can't we consider that all 20 spots for DH winter have been grabbed thanks to a giant 5 qualifiers??
And then give WCS points for it?
Well, that's what they did with RB BG, wasn't it? So... maybe they will grant WCS points for DH? I think that'd just be fair now, tbh.
No RB BG open qualifiers did not award WCS points, they were online so they couldn't have. This is the key-you can have a tournament populated mostly by winners of previous tournaments as long as at least a quarter of the slots are open qualifier slots. IEM WC and RB BG and Hot6ix Cup and GSL Global Championship met this criteria but DH Winter doesn't.
MKP didn't just move on but he 2-0'd both Maru and Byul to get through. That fact alone is beyond insane, either MKP is hittin the pipe for some sort of performance boost, or he has seriously put in spade work to get THAT much better
On November 14 2014 22:42 Gilgamex101 wrote: MKP didn't just move on but he 2-0'd both Maru and Byul to get through. That fact alone is beyond insane, either MKP is hittin the pipe for some sort of performance boost, or he has seriously put in spade work to get THAT much better
A player unlikely to qualify managing to qualify by beating stronger opponents isn't strange tbh. It's just how qualifiers work
I hope DH Winter doesnt give wcs points. Big injustice. You won an event (example DH Valencia), you gained 750points (or 375pts as 3/4 place) and then you can gain another points at main event. Same with RedBull events. I actually like this format but wcs points in this format is very unfair/injustice. Is like "rich become richer (as wcs points assembler)"
On November 14 2014 22:54 Dingodile wrote: I hope DH Winter doesnt give wcs points. Big injustice. You won an event (example DH Valencia), you gained 750points (or 375pts as 3/4 place) and then you can gain another points at main event. Same with RedBull events. I actually like this format but wcs points in this format is very unfair/injustice. Is like "rich become richer (as wcs points assembler)"
Well if you get to Round 8 of GSL you're automatically in the Code S next season - is it unfair as well?
On November 14 2014 22:54 Dingodile wrote: I hope DH Winter doesnt give wcs points. Big injustice. You won an event (example DH Valencia), you gained 750points (or 375pts as 3/4 place) and then you can gain another points at main event. Same with RedBull events. I actually like this format but wcs points in this format is very unfair/injustice. Is like "rich become richer (as wcs points assembler)"
Well if you get to Round 8 of GSL you're automatically in the Code S next season - is it unfair as well?
No because all other can qualify for that tournament too (32-8= 24 spots afaik) . DH Winter has only all DH top4 players from this year. RedBull's Mainevent did the same as DH Winter but 1 spot qualifier (8man tournament).
SkyHigh wow... it's been 2 years watching him fail at every qualifier he has entered in, but he has made it to one finally! Hope he doesn't lose 0-4, although with that group ahead of him it's going to be quite hard.
On November 14 2014 23:03 Rhaeide wrote: SkyHigh wow... it's been 2 years watching him fail at every qualifier he has entered in, but he has made it to one finally! Hope he doesn't lose 0-4, although with that group ahead of him it's going to be quite hard.
Marineking will need an upset to make it out of his group...but that's to be expected in such a rough tournament. And he's already made upsets in the qualification, soooo.... MARINEKING FIGHTING!!!!
On November 14 2014 13:45 swag_bro wrote: A: Innovation and Hero- No explanation. These two are just the best in their groups. B: Rain and sOs- Soo is in a huge slump and Baby isn't THAT good...but he might make it out. C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players. D; Zest and Parting- No explanation needed
no love for skyhigh or classic
also explanation is indeed needed for PartinG over Bbyong, Bbyong smashed him last time they played. and I think you're underestimating Stats a lot
Bo1's don't determine anything. Just because Bbyong caught Parting off guard one time does not justify him being levels above parting. Look at how Rain completely destroyed Bbyong on the same map when he did the same strategy. Any new strategy can catch any player off guard.
Classic and Flash advance Classic and Flash just seem above the rest of the group, but I wasn't expecting Soulkey to qualify so hopefully he can be the Zerg hero (again). Just not at the expense of Flash please.
MarineKing is currently in the top 10 of WCS 2015 standings!
Awesome, since MK is #3 this means he'd play PartinG in the first round. GSTL 2012 epic rematch. I call for Entombed Valley back in the map pool specifically for this purpose.
On November 14 2014 13:45 swag_bro wrote: C: Flash and Soulkey- The best two players in their group. I can't see Skyhigh or Classic even taking a game off of either of these two players.
It will stand 3-3 and in the last match, Marineking goes basetrading: He saves his CC somewhere flying arround, while soO has no drone left and cant deal with it. But Marineking does not accept the draw "i could land mule and win!!!". Game goes on forever till both get a silver medal, because it is march 2015 and they need the arena for Code S.
On November 16 2014 05:51 Iodem wrote: So what happens if soO and MarineKing face each other in the finals? They can't both get second...
they can, they will be tied 3-3 going into the final game, which will be a draw, then they keep regaming which continously result in draws until the end of time :O
On November 16 2014 05:51 Iodem wrote: So what happens if soO and MarineKing face each other in the finals? They can't both get second...
they can, they will be tied 3-3 going into the final game, which will be a draw, then they keep regaming which continously result in draws until the end of time :O
It depends. If it will be Starleague I sense eternal base trade into strong ground zerg without hatchery/dron army vs. floating terran buildings.
If it will be anything esle MKP will win - he won two MLGs after all.
On November 16 2014 05:51 Iodem wrote: So what happens if soO and MarineKing face each other in the finals? They can't both get second...
they can, they will be tied 3-3 going into the final game, which will be a draw, then they keep regaming which continously result in draws until the end of time :O
It depends. If it will be Starleague I sense eternal base trade into strong ground zerg without hatchery/dron army vs. floating terran buildings.
If it will be anything esle MKP will win - he won two MLGs after all.
soO won the 2012 MLG vs Proleague Invitational, coincidence?
On November 16 2014 05:51 Iodem wrote: So what happens if soO and MarineKing face each other in the finals? They can't both get second...
they can, they will be tied 3-3 going into the final game, which will be a draw, then they keep regaming which continously result in draws until the end of time :O
It depends. If it will be Starleague I sense eternal base trade into strong ground zerg without hatchery/dron army vs. floating terran buildings.
If it will be anything esle MKP will win - he won two MLGs after all.
soO won the 2012 MLG vs Proleague Invitational, coincidence?
On November 16 2014 05:51 Iodem wrote: So what happens if soO and MarineKing face each other in the finals? They can't both get second...
they can, they will be tied 3-3 going into the final game, which will be a draw, then they keep regaming which continously result in draws until the end of time :O
MKP will have his period at some point and will have to forfeit to attend nature business
On November 16 2014 06:18 Clonester wrote: It will stand 3-3 and in the last match, Marineking goes basetrading: He saves his CC somewhere flying arround, while soO has no drone left and cant deal with it. But Marineking does not accept the draw "i could land mule and win!!!". Game goes on forever till both get a silver medal, because it is march 2015 and they need the arena for Code S.
On November 16 2014 06:18 Clonester wrote: It will stand 3-3 and in the last match, Marineking goes basetrading: He saves his CC somewhere flying arround, while soO has no drone left and cant deal with it. But Marineking does not accept the draw "i could land mule and win!!!". Game goes on forever till both get a silver medal, because it is march 2015 and they need the arena for Code S.
MK is terrible nowadays.
Uh yeah....I'm going to go ahead and retract that statement. I just watched the first games of his today vs Stats and wow. He looked super strong. I love seeing Terrans set up beastly concaves against Protoss and winning fights because of insane micro.
In game one I was really impressed with how he flew the CC at his natural back into the main after he realized how all in Stats was. That's something I really need to begin doing. You can continue producing SCV's without having them get picked off as well as having much less surface area to defend.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ssmVyKB.jpg)
Stats and 
soO advance
Flash advance
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/71yowHo.png)
