EPTPerhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy.
Jaedong will not return to JinAir Greenwing - Page 8
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26362 Posts
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote: boxerfred, we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself. As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself. Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Your opinion is useless as well as your points are invalid. What makes your opinion better than anyone elses? | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:01 StarStruck wrote: I said he was entitled to his opinions but showed exactly how little weight it carries. There are two points that I deconstructed: the idea of faceless Koreans and the timing of the schedule. I said he doesn't have to like the casters lol that's not what I was arguing I even put a sentence in my original post saying that was fine. You're looking at the whole when you should be looking at the parts. Don't group everything together. I addressed a number of things. Let me phrase it another way to sum things up: just because you willingly choose to ignore a scene, which has generated a ridiculous amount of Starcraft content and don't understand the language doesn't make the players within that scene faceless. This is ignorance and self-entitlement (when it comes down to the timing of the schedule even though the guy stated he watches the GSTL when the OSL and PL go on roughly at the same time) at the highest level. Wow...are you for real? He doesn't like Proleague because it doesn't provide what he wants from his Starcraft 2 watching. He has his own reasons for doing so and so he is glad a player he likes isn't in it because it means he will see more of said player elsewhere. Esports is an entertainment product. The whole point of the damn thing is to get people watching it. If people don't like said product turning around and saying "well SCREW YOU for not speaking the language and not finding it convenient for you!" is utterly absurd. It SHOULD be accessible and enjoyable and inclusive and convenient for people you're aiming the product at because that's how you get a damn audience. And in the case of SC2 the market is international, which is apparently something which has come as a revelation to SPL over the past year or so and they've been coming to terms with (the hiring of english casters, etc). Let me give you a hypothetical example. Someone who doesn't speak English goes "Game of Thrones is on at a difficult time for me to watch and I don't understand the language so none of it makes sense and I find that boring and all the characters dull because I don't know anything about them as a result; so I don't think its a very good show". Then someone pounces on said person about how they're being self-entitled because they don't speak the language and that they're only finding it boring because of that reason and how great it all and how their opinion means nothing because they're ignorant. All mixed in with various other offensive insults and abuse. Sound fair? Because it isn't. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
As far as I'm concerned you are allowed to invalidate opinions when there is very little substance to them. That's all I did. You guys throw around the word faceless waaaaay too much and I just showed you how it doesn't really work in this case. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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malady
United States600 Posts
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Ventris
Germany1226 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:33 StarStruck wrote: That doesn't make them faceless Koreans and just because he doesn't pay attention to what's happening over there is ignorance. This isn't refutable. If you read his first post there was no valid criticism in it and I have no idea why anyone would even try bother defending it. As far as I'm concerned you are allowed to invalidate opinions when there is very little substance to them. That's all I did. He explicitely said that he wasn't criticising PL but merely stating his personal preference. He just likes GSL more and thats his good right. And people are defending him, because you behaved like a douchebag and unnecessarily got personal. | ||
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ThePrince
Peru331 Posts
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:28 -Celestial- wrote: boxerfred, Let me give you a hypothetical example. Someone who doesn't speak English goes "Game of Thrones is on at a difficult time for me to watch and I don't understand the language so none of it makes sense and I find that boring and all the characters dull because I don't know anything about them as a result; so I don't think its a very good show". Then someone pounces on said person about how they're being self-entitled because they don't speak the language and that they're only finding it boring because of that reason and how great it all and how their opinion means nothing because they're ignorant. All mixed in with various other offensive insults and abuse. That is actually a great example, because no one would seriously make the point that Game of Thrones is a bad show because it's in english. It's perfectly fine to say "I don't like GoT because I don't understand the language". It's wrong to say "It's not a very good show because I don't speak the language." The level of your English has no influence on the quality of the show. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:35 Skynx wrote: Acer.Jaedong? Acer can't possibly have that deep of pockets. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:43 Ventris wrote: He explicitely said that he wasn't criticising PL but merely stating his personal preference. He just likes GSL more and thats his good right. And people are defending him, because you behaved like a douchebag and unnecessarily got personal. d-bag? That's what I call getting personal. The only thing I said about him was he was ignorant and noted his self-entitlement. I'm sorry if I don't resort to name calling, but I call it at as I see it and I use factual information to back up my claims instead of just saying, "I don't like the time it comes on. I watch GSTL because I like their production more." Nothing wrong with the last sentence, but don't tell me you don't like the time of PL and the OSL when it happens around the same time as the GSTL. That invalidates your first point about the timing and that negates the idea of VODs as well. Then we come to the idea of faceless Koreans again when in reality it's just flat out ignorance. I showed you how they cater towards the Korean audience and have SNM do some translation. You are entitled not to like the OSL/PL English production, but just because there is that language barrier doesn't make them faceless. Going to the guy's Game of Thrones example in a different language. That doesn't make the characters faceless. Heck, they even have characters who speak in entirely different tongues. I think we get to the meat of what they're all about by other things. I've been with several women who's family's spoke different languages and guess what? I picked up a lot of what they said and I wouldn't call them faceless at all. At the end of the day, KeSPA and OGN produce a ridiculous amount of SC content. You are allowed to not like the production, but you might want to take a second before you call someone faceless because truth be told, a lot of these players have a lot of content. KeSPA has stepped it up a notch when it comes to content with regards to the players. | ||
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tredogz
Canada170 Posts
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Lordanubis
United Kingdom198 Posts
 Probably stay with EG, and it's probably the right move. He's broken the EG curse and improved no end since he joined them. | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote: Whoa big news! He'll probably stay on EG though i dont follow jd and or eg anymore but jd always seemed so detached from the team, yes he has the logo and that but i would of though a more regimented practivce and of course native players would be a better improvement pool for him . . but saying that ive no idea how he spends his practice time and how he disciplines himself | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote: 'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'. Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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Harem
United States11393 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:59 Squat wrote: I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision. He only won 3 starleagues in BW. | ||
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perfidiusrex
Belgium78 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:45 blackone wrote: That is actually a great example, because no one would seriously make the point that Game of Thrones is a bad show because it's in english. It's perfectly fine to say "I don't like GoT because I don't understand the language". It's wrong to say "It's not a very good show because I don't speak the language." The level of your English has no influence on the quality of the show. ere not talking about good or bad.we are talking about entertaining and boring.the initial guy just said the pl players were boring to him.and the movie example is good.if you can not understand the language a movie is made in and without subtitles it becomes boring fast | ||
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Ace Frehley
2030 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote: 'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'. Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I would bet he would be retired by now if EG had never picked him, after stagnating between code A/low code S, achieving nothing, and not traveling to foreign tournaments at all. I think he became good because EG, more than money, gave him motivation and tournaments to play It must be depressing being locked in a team house to play a GSL match every few weeks (or months) | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
PL needs JD | ||
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