Korean Denizens reactions to HOTS/MLG Winter?

On March 19 2013 08:05 ZeroCartin wrote:
Im actually really interested in this as well. I read that HotS went back to the top 10 of most played PC games in PC Bangs from a reddit source i believe

On March 19 2013 08:23 Fionn wrote:


It's out of the top 10 currently.

But MLG was one of the most searched items on Naver yesterday. I think we'll see how big HotS is or the excitement for it is on the night the Gangnam GOM studios open. See how many people show up for that.

On March 19 2013 08:28 Zenbrez wrote:

Could you link to the site that has the top 25 games? I'd like to revisit in the future

On March 19 2013 08:35 Zenbrez wrote:

#10 is Frozen Thrones? O.o

On March 19 2013 08:23 Fionn wrote:


It's out of the top 10 currently.

But MLG was one of the most searched items on Naver yesterday. I think we'll see how big HotS is or the excitement for it is on the night the Gangnam GOM studios open. See how many people show up for that.

On March 19 2013 08:35 Zenbrez wrote:

#10 is Frozen Thrones? O.o

On March 19 2013 08:57 YyapSsap wrote:
SC2:WoL i.e. blizzard killed itself in the korean market even before it launched mainly due to the Kespa vs Blizzard/GOM deal. If they worked out the differences and OGN + co naturally transitioned into SC2 without the factions (it would've been on national TV also), the impact it would've been huge in a positive way especially when nada and boxer was still active players. The broadcasting deal to GOM along with blizzard pulling the plug off BW out of nowhere and hence the negative press killed the potential korean market. It pretty much gave way for LoL.

I don't know about HOTS but the traction is slowly building.. although its no where near popular as LoL.

I also tend to think that they should of retained the english names for the units instead of the korean ones because it also alienated alot of the original fanbase (even the casters have a hard time getting accustomed to the new korean names even now).

Blizzard loyally screwed up here and simply did not have the right "vision".

On March 19 2013 09:00 braller wrote:


Kespa's stances were silly, Blizzard was more than right not to listen to them.

On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.

SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.

On March 19 2013 09:09 YyapSsap wrote:


We all know Kespa is one frustrating organisation but they are one of the reasons why BW lived for so long. Theres always pros next to cons.

I'm sorry but Blizzard's stance to the situation is what killed the SC2 momentum in Korea even before the game took off especially when Blizzard came outta no where with the whole legal action on BW when they could have done this FAR sooner.

Yes and I am Korean and this was the general view of why SC2 just didn't work out and why people were disinterested from the beginning. I swear a smooth transition could have reaped great results.. but they shot their own foot by entering the korean market with the wrong mindset.

On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.

SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.

On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:



This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall.

Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.

On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:



This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall.

Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.

On March 19 2013 09:24 rasers wrote:

First real HotS Tournaments. and it was just another random day for LoL and HotS could barely beat it sometimes. not even for long.

If they keep the numbers in like 5 6 months u could say it's going well but so far just expansion hype.

On March 19 2013 09:16 caradoc wrote:



This is a really good point-- A lot of people make a lot out of the PC Bangs stats, but it's true-- it isn't a typical PC Bang game. The numbers mean something, but they aren't indicative of most time spent on the games overall.

Plus the stream numbers were higher for HotS than for LoL during MLG afaik.

On March 19 2013 09:22 ktimekiller wrote:

I would argue that the popularity of a game in PC bang is a good telling on the general popularity of a game. Many kids come out of school or hagwons to play in PC bangs to play with friends or to avoid the eyes of their parents while gaming.

PC bang gaming is a form of social activity that is representative of how strong a game is for the casual base.

On March 19 2013 09:33 fabiano wrote:
Yea it sucks that BW fell all the way down to 6. If BW were to go back on TV I'd bet it would be #2 behind LoL only.

Quite a tell that SC2 is on TV and yet it isn't even top 10.

On March 19 2013 09:40 Zenbrez wrote:

Only for periods, overall I think LoL had viewers for more total minutes than sc2. Also I sincerily doubt many koreans watch MLG. I have absolutely nothing to support this assumption, but that's just what I think.

On March 19 2013 09:43 MCXD wrote:
I'm pretty sure LoL is more popular because it's free and that's it. Reading into stuff like the KeSPA vs. GOM thing or Koreans apparently hating SC2's gameplay is silly, putting words into people's mouths, and overcomplicating it.

Korea is one of the capitals of free to play. Why else do you think hundreds of those FTP anime MMOs come out of Korea each year, specifically? They just lap it up. LoL is good and free, therefore it's extremely successful. SC2 is good but not free, so it's not. It's also cheaper for the PC Bangs as well, so it's more widely available.

Can you name any other non-FTP e-sports that are massive in korea? I can't. The cost is a much bigger issue than the gameplay, and it always will be to koreans.

On March 19 2013 08:23 Fionn wrote:


It's out of the top 10 currently.

But MLG was one of the most searched items on Naver yesterday. I think we'll see how big HotS is or the excitement for it is on the night the Gangnam GOM studios open. See how many people show up for that.

On March 19 2013 09:46 vultdylan wrote:


Comparing stream viewers between SC2 and LoL is never relevant, nor constructive.

On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.

SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.

On March 19 2013 11:04 Fionn wrote:
If you're going to buy HotS, I see no advantages for people to go out to be PC Bangs and play. It's not like LoL where you and your friends can go to a PC Bangs, set up some team games and play right next to each other.

On March 19 2013 11:08 ZenithM wrote:

Can somebody explain why that is?
Maybe not "social" enough? Like you don't go to play SC2 in a PC Bang to play with your buddy.
Technical requirements? I don't really know how PC Bangs work :p

On March 19 2013 11:24 Scarecrow wrote:

SC2 isn't free and the custom game system is still somehow inferior to a 10+ year old game. Custom games are where BW on a casual level really took off.

On March 19 2013 09:24 rasers wrote:

First real HotS Tournaments. and it was just another random day for LoL and HotS could barely beat it sometimes. not even for long.

If they keep the numbers in like 5 6 months u could say it's going well but so far just expansion hype.

Games are social activities. You want games that you can play with as many friends as possible especially if you go together with your friends to a PC Bang after school.

SC2 doesn't really offer that because the main attraction of SC2 is the 1v1. Let's say you go as a group of 5 to a PC Bang or so, you would want to play a game where everyone can play with each other together at the same time. SC2 can't offer that while LoL, Sudden Attack, MMOs can.

In wc3 and bw, this problem was alleviated because of the good custom games. But now these custom games have become a fully supported game with developers supports. Not sure if SC2 can still make a comeback even if the custom games are improved. The map editor, bnet and map creators really have to make something very engaging for SC2 to ever be popular in PC Bangs imo.

On March 19 2013 11:45 larse wrote:


People should really stop suggesting the cause of SC2's unpopularity is not good custom game system. And people need to stop suggesting BW's rise is because of its awesome custom game system

10 years ago, there were just not that many options for gaming while now you really don't need to play the SC2 custom games for causality.

Even if the SC2's custom game system is more awesome than BW, it still will not generate its popularity from custom games.

The gaming industry changed, deal with it.

On March 19 2013 10:56 NHL Fever wrote:
Maybe someone can correct me, but I don't believe SC1 was really popular in Korea until years after its release. Perhaps the same will happen with SC2. Once all the Kespa pros fully migrate over and hit their full form, with everyone on sc2 the popularity might increase.

On March 19 2013 13:50 golgo_13 wrote:
The only reason SC2 is up from #21 to #11 is the novelty-newness factor and people playing the campaign. It will go down soon when people realize the gameplay is still about ball vs ball and gimmicky drops. I see HOTS popularity falling faster than even WOL in Korea and possibly worldwide.

The worst part is, tanks are now even more useless than they were in WOL and "MECH TERRAN" == make widow mines from factory lol.

On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.

A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.

And that's pretty much about it.

On March 19 2013 14:25 Clefairy wrote:
BW is popular because it actually has custom games. Starcraft 2 will never match it because the custom game system or "Arcade" is still so terrible in HotS.

On March 19 2013 14:32 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:

Get off the TL sc2 forums if you don't have fun. Me And millions of others enjoy it, noone forces you to play it.


I literally don't get how people like you don't have something better to do than whine about a game you admit yourself you don't like

On March 19 2013 13:33 Fionn wrote:
I don't buy the whole it was just a regular LCS day/exhibition tournament thing and that it doesn't mean much SC2 beat it.

I'm sure a regular TSM game would get more viewers than a major final with two Korean LoL teams.

On March 19 2013 14:36 larse wrote:


How about you drop the personal attacks.

Did I say I feel it's not fun to play?

I was just suggesting there are not a lot of people feel it's fun to play and that's why it's not taking off in Korea, China, etc. Many other people have suggested similar arguments in this thread as well.

On March 19 2013 08:43 yoshi245 wrote:


SC2 was never big in Korea. Yes there's a fanbase and a following, but in a sense, it's fueled by die hard fans of KESPA players and some eSF players. Main reason why older games like BW and others are high on that list is their availability, they are cheaper if not free, also explains why free games like LoL do so well. More casual friendly too.

The only way Blizzard can really make SC2 stay as a very popular game in Korea is to make a MP version of it free, adding LAN support wouldn't hurt either (dare I say, it should be required). That would make it very popular in PC Bangs, and many more casuals will come into the game that way. But they won't - it affects the bottom line too much.

On March 19 2013 15:29 Schelim wrote:
woah i was so happy when i saw war3 in the top 10 but then i remembered it's probably just people playing dota =/

war3 will probably be my favorite RTS for all time. sc2 isn't bad though. diablo 3, on the other hand, is a horrible game and i'm surprised it's so high up in the rankings.

On March 19 2013 09:49 DoA wrote:
Just based on what I've observed here I'd say HotS has been definitely better-received than WoL. These are a couple pictures I took at the launch party here in Seoul. I've seen more people playing it in PC Bangs recently and although it is true that PC Bang stats might not be the best litmus test for gauging popularity, it's still something to pay attention to. The real test is going to be seeing how many fans show up to events once the GSL, etc start rolling again. I personally think the scene is in for some good times with HotS.





Ultimately though I doubt that SC2 is ever going to be as popular as BW was here in Korea. The initial SC2 launch was rough due to various reasons and in that chaos other games stepped in and filled the gaps that were missing in terms of esports popularity. I'm not just talking LoL either. Other games like Sudden Attack, etc have their fan bases too.

I do think though that people care too much about SC2's popularity in Korea. Think about how MLG did this last weekend in viewer numbers. We've had huge turnouts for EU events recently too. At the end of the day we need to realize that Korea's a pretty small part of the SC2 fan base overall and we don't necessarily need the game to be wildly popular here to have it be successful elsewhere. So don't worry about it too much.

TLDR: SC2 isn't as huge in Korea as we'd like yet, but it actually doesn't matter as much as people think it does in the grand scheme of things.

On March 19 2013 16:30 illidanx wrote:
LOL broodwar at #6 and SC2 is not in top 10.

On March 19 2013 14:34 Wildmoon wrote:


Stop this BS. BW's custom game is not even as good as arcade.

On March 19 2013 17:18 boxturtle wrote:


It's a lot easier to use and therefore better for the purpose. My brother does some simple programing and web design and he's said he'd go program for money in his free time rather than make a SC2 map. When we played Broodwar he was making bounds, tug of wars, etc and playing with our friends. When he was 9 years old he made a nice, simple, but very fun bound map with ~20 creatively designed levels.

Now, he's 20 and the SC2 editor is too complicated for him to build maps with as a hobby. We also made a WC3 map back in the day (I hope I still have a USB with it somewhere, I was quite proud of it back then). While it was more difficult, it's nothing compared to the difficulty of a SC2 map.

Map makers could pump out great maps like EotA, ToB, enfo's, dbz, survival, tag, any arena/td map, etc in WC3 at incredible speeds. In SC2, you're essentially asking someone who is skilled enough to build quality cell phone/browser games to use your platform because of its superior graphics and processing power on the devices that will be running the maps in exchange for the $$$ you could possibly be earning from other platforms.

Just check some of the old modeling/map making sites. There were some 14 year olds on them. As far as SC2 goes, it's too difficult for the average 14 year old to jump aboard and become a useful member of your team.

On March 19 2013 09:32 FromShouri wrote:
I could see War 3/BW in top 10, But Diablo 3?!?!? That is surprising.

On March 19 2013 17:33 Alex1Sun wrote:

Since release D3 has been improved a lot. It is really good right now. Plus D3 is a PC-Bang-type game due to teamwork (as well as LoL and dota in WC3).

HoTS is not a PC-Bang-type game due to its 1v1 nature. SC:BW is an exception in PC-Bangs because it's Korea

On March 19 2013 08:02 Klipsys wrote:

How HOTS is being received overall in Korea?
Are people starting to see it as a true BW successor?
Is it being played in PC Bangs? (More so than WOL?)
What do they have to say about MLG Winter?

On March 19 2013 17:48 EpiK wrote:

response to bold questions:

1. On the whole, no. The BW crowd have either moved on to other non-rts games or just play less. I've yet to meet someone who played BW a lot then make a permanent shift to SC2. Something I have noticed is that those who do play SC2 in pc bangs now seem to be a lot younger. Also, a lot of my friends who followed pro-gaming (generally more casual than the avg TL.netter) lost interest in e-sports after kespa made the switch to SC2. None of them knew about MLG winter, let alone the fact that flash was playing in the finals lol.

2. I see it being played rarely, as was the case with WOL. LoL, D3 and mmorpg's are definitely the most popular games being played still.

Not entirely sure why so many people are interested in what Koreans think of the game. For the sake of the growth of e-sports, I'd rather see the rest of the world view it as a competitive e-sports game instead of it just being a niche thing a small country and a handful of "foreigners" enjoy.

On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.

A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.

And that's pretty much about it.

On March 19 2013 13:50 golgo_13 wrote:
The only reason SC2 is up from #21 to #11 is the novelty-newness factor and people playing the campaign. It will go down soon when people realize the gameplay is still about ball vs ball and gimmicky drops. I see HOTS popularity falling faster than even WOL in Korea and possibly worldwide.

The worst part is, tanks are now even more useless than they were in WOL and "MECH TERRAN" == make widow mines from factory lol.

On March 19 2013 22:20 thezanursic wrote:

What about the SSL. I know it's pretty unknown, but do you think there is potential for growth?

I mean quiet a few skilled ex-pros are playing (Sea, Shuttle, Ssak, Hiya etc etc)

On March 19 2013 16:05 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:


People don't play Dota in Korea. They don't even know what it is unless they've lived overseas..

On March 19 2013 19:15 Qikz wrote:
Considering StarCraft 2 is probably 5 times more popular outside of Korea than Broodwar was, I'd say even though the Korean market may be smaller, as long as viewer numbers keep up like they have been there will always be tournaments for the pros to play and show their skill and earn some money. That's what matters to me atleast, where the tournaments are hosted means pretty much nothing.

Especially when you look at the skill levels of the players at MLG. As long as Kespa let their players play outside of Korea from now on, there's always going to be added viewers for tournaments like MLG, Dreamhack etc. etc.

On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.

A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.

And that's pretty much about it.

On March 19 2013 22:46 Psychobabas wrote:
Diablo 3 at #9 trolololololol

On March 19 2013 22:55 Seeker wrote:
Anyone have any idea what a denizen is?

On March 19 2013 22:40 stew_ wrote:


i thought SSL had some match fixing controversy too about a few months ago. plus it's being played in brood war with players that are unwilling to switch to sc2, so i dont think there's much room for growth

On March 19 2013 22:55 Seeker wrote:
Anyone have any idea what a denizen is?

Denis Island is the second northeasternmost Island in the Seychelles. It is 60 miles north of Mahé and lies at the northern edge of the Seychelles bank, along with the nearby Bird Island, which is the northernmost Seychelles island. The 1.31 km² coral island was named after the French explorer Denis de Trobriand, who visited it in 1773. Denis Island has a private holiday resort with 25 guest chalets.

Deniz Gezmiş was a Turkish Marxist-Leninist revolutionary and political activist in Turkey in the late 1960s. He was one of the founding members of the People's Liberation Army of Turkey (THKO)

On March 19 2013 12:00 nakedsurfer wrote:


You guys also have to remember that so many more people play LoL.
The fact the we can beat it or even be even in numbers should be considered incredible in my opinion.

On March 19 2013 23:02 Marti wrote:

Allow me to quote wikipedia :

I can only assume the island is a very private starcraft 2 fans hub. It's so underground, tl has never heard of it.


Edit : alternatively, the op might be referring to turkish communist terrorists from the 60s. Seems just as likely.

den·i·zen
/ˈdenəzən/
Noun
An inhabitant or occupant of a particular place.
Synonyms
inhabitant - resident - habitant - dweller - occupant

On March 19 2013 08:43 yoshi245 wrote:


SC2 was never big in Korea. Yes there's a fanbase and a following, but in a sense, it's fueled by die hard fans of KESPA players and some eSF players. Main reason why older games like BW and others are high on that list is their availability, they are cheaper if not free, also explains why free games like LoL do so well. More casual friendly too.

The only way Blizzard can really make SC2 stay as a very popular game in Korea is to make a MP version of it free, adding LAN support wouldn't hurt either (dare I say, it should be required). That would make it very popular in PC Bangs, and many more casuals will come into the game that way. But they won't - it affects the bottom line too much.

On March 19 2013 23:16 Laserist wrote:


Denizen : A dweller; an inhabitant.

Bold part: Pretty sure he did not.

Off topic, there is a thin line between being a terrorist and a freedom fighter most of the cases. Also your quote defines him as political activist, also he didn't kill or wasn't being the reason of killing anyone afaik.

On March 19 2013 23:06 rasers wrote:

No. if the event would matter for LoL you could say something about beating LoL.

this MLG did not matter. there were some LCS games and that was the most important stuff there. and these games are like PL games. and i doubt u get these numbers everyday at a random Proleague game.

but i also don't get why SC2 peopel care sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much about having better numbers then LoL.
you had good numbers for your MLG be happy. celebrate whatever. but why do you have to add. OMG WE BEAT LOL FOR 5MINUTES.

On March 19 2013 22:55 Seeker wrote:
Anyone have any idea what a denizen is?

On March 19 2013 09:14 Fionn wrote:
I wouldn't care so much about PC Bangs.

SC2 is not a PC Bangs-type game.

On March 19 2013 23:44 mdb wrote:


Why do you think this? I think its quite the opposite, RTS games are exactly the PC Bang type of games.

On March 19 2013 22:56 Porishan wrote:

Diablo 3 Asian server doesn't have RMAH which make the game more interesting

On March 19 2013 17:47 Zeo wrote:

Just logged onto D3 to see how many people are online. 1500 open games... yeah, if that's worldwide...

On March 19 2013 23:48 docvoc wrote:

Because there is no lan. That is why it isn't as good for that situation.
ALSO: EDIT: Dakure, Crs is not the new TSM. That will never happen until St. Vicious gets the oddbro haircut.

On March 19 2013 23:44 mdb wrote:


Why do you think this? I think its quite the opposite, RTS games are exactly the PC Bang type of games.

On March 19 2013 23:57 omgimonfire15 wrote:
How does SC2 work in PC bangs? There's no LAN so do they just install it and make people use their own accounts?

On March 19 2013 23:40 Klipsys wrote:


It means inhabitant/resident. Use a dictionary once in a while

On March 20 2013 00:18 Kipsate wrote:
I doubt WCIII is Dota, while it may be a part of it Dota was never really popular there, they played Chaos(which is I believe not a WCIII custom map but its own client.) I assume WCIII itself is played(Moon, Lyn were /are really good wcIII players) and it was reasonably popular, moreover they might just play other custom maps aswell like TD or Pyramid escape or whatever they made there.

Dota 2 is not released yet in Korea and is being produced by Nexon, there is a rumor that Gom might include Dota 2 into their lineup(considering they can probably not compete with the Kespa LoL teams this is the right choice to do).

On March 19 2013 08:35 Zenbrez wrote:

#10 is Frozen Thrones? O.o

On March 19 2013 09:23 dani` wrote:

I think the LoL event at MLG was some sort of exhibition with college teams and a small tourney for 4 professional teams or something, cannot really compare them. All I know is KT Rolster did win the LoL pro event :-)
(disclaimer: I obviously don't play LoL or watch streams, just occasionally checking out results now some Korean teams are also competing).

On March 20 2013 01:10 aike wrote:


There were 3 LoL things happening AFAIK. 1: The NA pro teams from LCS played each other as part of their weekly game at MLG (they were supposed to do this at IPL as well). 2: An international Exhibition tournament with various teams from around the world (which KT won). 3: Smaller NA teams trying to win some cash and hopes at getting into LCS. So while this wasn't like a huge finals for anything, you had some of the best teams from around the world and ALL of the best NA teams playing matches at this MLG.

On March 19 2013 14:26 larse wrote:
Let's admit it. The fun factor just isn't there when you play the game.

A game only becomes popular when lots of people feel it's fun and thus want to play it more. The problem of SC2 is just that there aren't 'lots' of people feel it's fun to play.

And that's pretty much about it.

On March 20 2013 01:42 NHL Fever wrote:


So would this be considered the biggest lol event? I don't know anything about lol, do they have other far more important tourneys?

On March 20 2013 01:42 NHL Fever wrote:


So would this be considered the biggest lol event? I don't know anything about lol, do they have other far more important tourneys?

On March 19 2013 09:40 Zenbrez wrote:

Only for periods, overall I think LoL had viewers for more total minutes than sc2. Also I sincerily doubt many koreans watch MLG. I have absolutely nothing to support this assumption, but that's just what I think.

On March 19 2013 16:19 xuanzue wrote:


No, it's not. the prize pool is so low, and the tournaments have a fee inscription. so few people can live of play chess.

more spectators = more sponsors = more people who can play an live of play.

On March 20 2013 04:05 DeathProfessor wrote:
This thread makes me wonder if PC Bang could take off in the USA but Americans love their privacy so probably not.

On March 19 2013 09:23 dani` wrote:

I think the LoL event at MLG was some sort of exhibition with college teams and a small tourney for 4 professional teams or something, cannot really compare them. All I know is KT Rolster did win the LoL pro event :-)
(disclaimer: I obviously don't play LoL or watch streams, just occasionally checking out results now some Korean teams are also competing).

On March 19 2013 23:40 Klipsys wrote:


It means inhabitant/resident. Use a dictionary once in a while

On March 20 2013 04:35 theqat wrote:


Privacy isn't the issue so much as the enormous distances between places and many cities steadily losing population

On March 20 2013 05:23 iky43210 wrote:
pcbang used to be huge in Taiwan, then it all got wiped out except a very few after computers become cheap and labor becomes more expensive. Most pcbangs (from taiwan experience) are dirty and taiwa/Korea have cheap high end internet in the range of 25Mb/sec that you can get for $10 a month, there is no reason why you would ever go to pcbang unless you have very restricted parents.

I am willing to bet if the korea government doesn't subsidize pcbang so heavily in Korea, they would all go out of business too. Then again this is probably true for alot of their companies as Korea pretty much subsidize just about everything. That's how they are able to complete globally easily when samsung are being fed with government money

On March 20 2013 05:41 Velr wrote:
From a viewer perspective... Why should Hots be better recieved than Wol? The only thing that makes it more fun are fast medivacs and thats about it. Z/P still seem Ball vs Ball boredom... At least thats what i got from watching a bit of MLG...

On March 20 2013 05:50 Chewbacca. wrote:


There is just a lot more action all around.

Reapers are much better and produce some action early game.
Oracles are good and provide some more harassment options which are fun to watch.
Mothership core or whatever it is called allows for some more harassment options for protoss early on
Vipers allow zerg to have interesting ways to try and break a Terran mech so those games aren't as often just boring turtles
Widow mines can allow for some cute micro trying to pull mines into the terrans own army
Medivac buff seems to be leading to more multipronged drops which once again, are fun to watch.
Between infestor nerf/viper introduction/hydra and ultra buff zerg games aren't just 100% turtle until maxed on brood infestor
Protoss air buffs gives them more options so that games aren't all the same for them either...

IMO almost every change they've made makes the game more fun to watch.

On March 20 2013 06:06 Xiron wrote:


Yeah but people like my won't return because units are somewhat different.

The thing the game lacks is consistency. I didn't follow the game for half a year and after returning it feels like 50% of players that matter are new/nonames I couldn't really care about.

The other 50% are 40% faceless koreans and the 10% foreigners/koreans with a character can't make up for the boredom that is 90% of the players.

I'm really sad that the game of my dreams, which it was after release of WoL, didn't manage to keep that aura of epicness
I always felt ;(

Back then, when I used to watch all of Husky's / Day9's / Psy's casts, every player had a distinct style of play everyone knew about. You could literally see their progress week after week. Fun times.

On March 20 2013 05:40 bduddy wrote:
Here's another set of interesting rankings that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else: the Afreeca rankings. (Google Translate says they're from "March week 2", so I guess that ended right around the HoTS launch.

1. League of Legends
2. Minecraft
3. SimCity (up 4)
4. Starcraft (down 2)
5. Sudden Attack (down 1)
6. Starcraft 2 (up 3)
7. Lineage (down 2)
8. World of Warcraft (up 8)
9. Kart Rider (down 2)
10. Warcraft (down 1) [WC3, I assume?]

http://gametv.afreeca.com/

Getting close to BW and passing Kart Rider is pretty impressive, IMO, and once SimCity inevitably takes a dive SC2 should be in the top 5 (especially because most of Week 2 probably included the days right before the HoTS launch, which were pretty dead). Also, World of Tanks is 18th and DOTA2 is AWOL... good luck to GOM with those, they'll need it...

On March 20 2013 06:06 Xiron wrote:


Yeah but people like my won't return because units are somewhat different.

The thing the game lacks is consistency. I didn't follow the game for half a year and after returning it feels like 50% of players that matter are new/nonames I couldn't really care about.

The other 50% are 40% faceless koreans and the 10% foreigners/koreans with a character can't make up for the boredom that is 90% of the players.

I'm really sad that the game of my dreams, which it was after release of WoL, didn't manage to keep that aura of epicness
I always felt ;(

Back then, when I used to watch all of Husky's / Day9's / Psy's casts, every player had a distinct style of play everyone knew about. You could literally see their progress week after week. Fun times.

On March 20 2013 06:40 Gevna wrote:

I don't understand, how it can be the game of your dreams, if you don't like to watch "faceless" koreans who actually show the best possible starcraft.

Then, 3 years in e-sport is quite long, you can't expect to have the same names 2 years ago still at the top. And still MC, MKP, MVP etc... are still some of the best players in the world; this is definitely consistency. There are new names which is a really great thing, new blood, new style. The scene keeps evolving, especially with the Kespa arrival, which means it's healthy.
I'm not agressive I just don't understand how those points can keep you away for sc2.

On March 20 2013 05:44 zefreak wrote:


Name a country that doesn't subsidize everything.

PC bangs are a cultural thing in Korea, very few go out of 'necessity'.

On March 20 2013 05:41 Velr wrote:
From a viewer perspective... Why should Hots be better recieved than Wol? The only thing that makes it more fun are fast medivacs and thats about it. Z/P still seem Ball vs Ball boredom... At least thats what i got from watching a bit of MLG...

On March 20 2013 07:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:


It's official guys, we've found someone that has more shallow analysis than me.

On March 20 2013 07:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:


It's official guys, we've found someone that has more shallow analysis than me.

On March 20 2013 06:06 Xiron wrote:


Yeah but people like my won't return because units are somewhat different.

The thing the game lacks is consistency. I didn't follow the game for half a year and after returning it feels like 50% of players that matter are new/nonames I couldn't really care about.

The other 50% are 40% faceless koreans and the 10% foreigners/koreans with a character can't make up for the boredom that is 90% of the players.

I'm really sad that the game of my dreams, which it was after release of WoL, didn't manage to keep that aura of epicness
I always felt ;(

Back then, when I used to watch all of Husky's / Day9's / Psy's casts, every player had a distinct style of play everyone knew about. You could literally see their progress week after week. Fun times.

On March 20 2013 06:06 Xiron wrote:


Yeah but people like my won't return because units are somewhat different.

The thing the game lacks is consistency. I didn't follow the game for half a year and after returning it feels like 50% of players that matter are new/nonames I couldn't really care about.

The other 50% are 40% faceless koreans and the 10% foreigners/koreans with a character can't make up for the boredom that is 90% of the players.

On March 20 2013 07:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:


It's official guys, we've found someone that has more shallow analysis than me.

On March 20 2013 07:13 TotalBiscuit wrote:


It's official guys, we've found someone that has more shallow analysis than me.

On March 20 2013 06:10 Kambing wrote:


The consistency you are thinking of just isn't possible with a dynamic game like Starcraft that will be constantly evolving and changing because of metagame shifts, patches, and expansions for the next half-decade or so at least.

On March 21 2013 19:52 SinCitta wrote:
Who the fuck uses Xfire?

On March 21 2013 19:48 golgo_13 wrote:
You can only play the metagame that David Kim wants you to play. Too bad he doesn't know jack shit about RTS.

Back on topic, according to this editorial:

news.inews24.com/php/news_view.php?g_serial=732222&g_menu=020521&rrf=nv,

SC2:HoTS after enjoying a brief time in the limelight, is rapidly sliding down the most popular games chart, after achieving 9th place soon after release, it's slid down to 13th only a few days later.

Oh and it's not just Korea, XFIRE STATS:



I guess recognizing a bad game is not just a Korean thing

On March 21 2013 19:52 SinCitta wrote:
Who the fuck uses Xfire?

On March 21 2013 20:30 golgo_13 wrote:
LOL stick head in sand MOAR!!!

Obviously all who've replied beneath me are not educated, or have their head burrowed so far up Blizzard ass they've forgotten elementary school statistics.

Go back to school instead of trying to get a taste of Dustin Browder's sphincter

On March 21 2013 20:32 idscy wrote:
Hah! I was more suprised to see Diablo3 on there at all.

On March 21 2013 20:30 golgo_13 wrote:
LOL stick head in sand MOAR!!!

Obviously all who've replied beneath me are not educated, or have their head burrowed so far up Blizzard ass they've forgotten elementary school statistics.

Go back to school instead of trying to get a taste of Dustin Browder's sphincter

On March 21 2013 21:09 blackone wrote:
Because MOBAs are the most boring genre I have encountered in the history of competitive gaming. That's obviously just my own personal opinion, but I would play every single FPS, Fighting game, RTS or MMO before I'd play LoL or Dota.

On March 21 2013 21:54 OptimusYale wrote:
The main problem with SC2 in Korea is that is just did not capture the super young market that BW did (fuck, I played it against my elementary school students a lot, never got to play them in SC2.

Home Pc's are fucking terrible in general, so they play these low spec games because they can play at home and the PC room. Also, those PC room stats don't really take in people who play at home and stuff....I mean the amount is probably low but it's still there.

SC2 is pretty popular in Seoul, maybe Daegu and MAYBE Busan, but everywhere else in Korea it's impossible to find anyone who has played the game.

As for why I don't play LoL, I get excactly 0 satisfaction from a win. I play a game, I win and I sit there like 'well fuck, that was alright'. However when I play SC2 a win gives me a massive buzz, and a loss gives me a bit of a buzz too. Dota 2 is enjoyable, but LoL is like playing minesweeper on a 10x10 with 1 mine

On March 21 2013 21:54 OptimusYale wrote:
The main problem with SC2 in Korea is that is just did not capture the super young market that BW did (fuck, I played it against my elementary school students a lot, never got to play them in SC2.

Home Pc's are fucking terrible in general, so they play these low spec games because they can play at home and the PC room. Also, those PC room stats don't really take in people who play at home and stuff....I mean the amount is probably low but it's still there.

SC2 is pretty popular in Seoul, maybe Daegu and MAYBE Busan, but everywhere else in Korea it's impossible to find anyone who has played the game.

As for why I don't play LoL, I get excactly 0 satisfaction from a win. I play a game, I win and I sit there like 'well fuck, that was alright'. However when I play SC2 a win gives me a massive buzz, and a loss gives me a bit of a buzz too. Dota 2 is enjoyable, but LoL is like playing minesweeper on a 10x10 with 1 mine

On March 21 2013 21:59 c0ldfusion wrote:


Is that mainly a problem with the way SC2 is distributed now, i.e. linked to personal bnet account/no LAN? Or is it more a function of needing a moderately powerful PC (though let's be honest, SC2 ain't exactly Crysis 3) ?

On March 22 2013 05:18 stew_ wrote:
esports in general has been in steady decline in korea for some time now (since 2008 imo), with savior being the nail in the coffin. but i'm really interested to see what the next round in proleague will bring, as they're the biggest distributor of esports content in korea

On March 22 2013 05:45 grunge wrote:


The glory years of brood war were 2008-2011 lol