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Well it's kind of taboo on TL to say that things are imbalanced, because we're so accustomed to playing the most perfectly balanced game in the history of games. That said, this is SC2, and it's not balanced.
I'm a forum nubby but I think this thread would be nice if we could post things we think are imbalanced and then solutions to help balance them. For instance:
The Mothership: I just played a PVP and the guy goes one base mothership carrier with a wall-in for the most stupidly easy victory in the history of victories. He doesn't even have to try, just move the mothership in and out of mineral lines and rape armies.
The Solution: Triple the price. Or maybe even just double it. 400/400 is way to cheap for this mammoth. It shouldn't be remotely possible to get a mothership, AS WELL as carriers, off of one base. This is a ridiculously imbalanced unit.
Waygates: This isn't necessarily imbalanced in favor of any matchup, but there SHOULD be a drawback to using waygates over normal gateways. Perhaps a 10% increase in cost or at the very least a longer cooldown period. Right now there's no reason NOT to get waygates and keep them that way, and I think this should be a tactical decision the protoss should have to make.
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I agree with the mothership. That unit just doesn't belong in this game.
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I don't think you can declare the 1base mothership carrier build imba unless it is unstoppable even when scouted early on. There is almost certainly several options to dealing with this.
Warp gates? maybe, but too soon to tell. They can just adjust the cooldown time to balance it.
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So he walled in and teched and you failed to take additional bases to outdo his economy, failed to scout that Fleet Beacon, failed to build one of the highly cost-efficient air-to-air counter units (Corrupter, Viking, Phoenix--though less so true of the Phoenix, in a PvP why should your opponent survive long enough to make a mothership faster than you if he walled in and can't control the map?)
Now you're here to tell us that it's overpowered. The Mothership isn't overpowered, out-thinking you is simply at a correct level of power, and your enemy used it. Am I wrong?
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Mothership can be dealt with by securing your main/natural and focusing heavily on army. Spread is very important so you don't get raped by Vortex. Otherwise a large army can simply overwhelm it. It moves slowly so if it's always warping back to base it's not gonna have nearly as large an impact.
Mothership vs Toss: Sentries and Phoenixes. MS vs Z: Spores & Hydras MS vs T: Turrets and Vikings
It really isn't OP. Just more of a surprise strategy atm.
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does EMP still restart cooldown/energy? I would think Ghosts would be another option.
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I hate the mothership =(
The thing has 400/400 health and 2 base armor. Its neither Light nor Armored so nothing other than the Corruptor deals bonus damage to it. It is also insanely hard to kill because it can teleport away. Vortex + Cloaking Field are ridiculously strong abilities as well.
1-base Mothership comes out I believe a few seconds later than a DT Drop would happen.
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It is pretty op if you can get it out early without getting rushed. You spam zealots, hit their army with vortex, throw all of your zealots into the vortex, zealots tear everything to shreds after the vortex ends. Not to mention it forces you to go robo, and stargate to get observers out and pheonix out, just to deal with the mothership.
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mothership is def OP, but you already know you can EMP it so it can't teleport away and vortex.... still far too strong of a unit
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my first impressions was thor and roach being too good (played less than 10 games^^). just feels like its possible to get the roaches out too fast and that they have alittle too much hp
what i think needs to be better are dark templars, the tech tree is too annoying with the dark shire, they should just mix it with the archives
i also found vikings to be pretty bad, dunno what situation i wanna use them for atm, maybe kill lords on the map in early game?
On February 26 2010 06:07 Eiserne wrote: The Mothership: I just played a PVP and the guy goes one base mothership carrier with a wall-in for the most stupidly easy victory in the history of victories. He doesn't even have to try, just move the mothership in and out of mineral lines and rape armies.
if they camp and tech to carrier cant u just expo all over map and make air units that coutner carrier and mother ship? :p
question about vortex: do they suck up buildings such as bunkers and turrets too?
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I haven't had any issue with the mothership in gameplay. The only time I feel like I've seen a worthwhile one was the KHB vs. Artosis game. He went 1 base mothership + carriers. Probably one of, if not the easiest thing to scout, and very simple to counter.
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how can a mirror matchup be unbalanced
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On February 26 2010 06:07 Eiserne wrote:Waygates: This isn't necessarily imbalanced in favor of any matchup, but there SHOULD be a drawback to using waygates over normal gateways. Perhaps a 10% increase in cost or at the very least a longer cooldown period. Right now there's no reason NOT to get waygates and keep them that way, and I think this should be a tactical decision the protoss should have to make.
If I'm not mistaken, the build time for Zealots is increased by 13 game seconds with waygates. Apart from that, a 30 game second cooldown for everything seems a little small, especially for something like High/Dark Templar, and if I recall correctly makes no change for stalkers, since they have a 30 second build time already.
Come to think of it, when it comes to the templar, the fact that they are built before the delay, rather than after, seems very powerful. I mean, if you have 4-5 gateways, and your archives/dark shrine finishes, you can just take 10 game seconds to shift to warpgates and have 4-5 HT/DTs off the bat.
On the other hand, I don't believe warpgates benefit from Chrono Boost, though I'm not sure that makes a difference.
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Well, about it being stupid that the guy got it off of one base, SC2 so far has seemed to be waaaay more of one base play. Fast expands almost seem pointless since you can mine faster with the MULE, extra larvae, and Nexus thing. Also, if he rushed the tech, then you could have just massed zealots and attacked, or expanded, or teched as well.
About the original question, I think that building killing units like the Warp Ray or the Thor are kinda stupid. But the QUEEN!!!! this unit is definitely balanced in every way possible. Late game zerg with 4 extra larvae, that is 14 cracklings at a time.....
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On February 26 2010 06:34 Rkie wrote: Well, about it being stupid that the guy got it off of one base, SC2 so far has seemed to be waaaay more of one base play. Fast expands almost seem pointless since you can mine faster with the MULE, extra larvae, and Nexus thing. Also, if he rushed the tech, then you could have just massed zealots and attacked, or expanded, or teched as well.
About the original question, I think that building killing units like the Warp Ray or the Thor are kinda stupid. But the QUEEN!!!! this unit is definitely balanced in every way possible. Late game zerg with 4 extra larvae, that is 14 cracklings at a time..... huh, I play T and I fast expand all 3 match ups
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I hate the fact that SCV's get "absorbed" in the building they are building so I can't harass them properly with my scout probe.
I hate the fact that when my units are not in "Hold position" and other unit (friendly one) can go trough them and just pushes them.
I hate the fact that Roach rush off one base is very imbalanced. Even if you scout it and prepare for it Zergs switches so fast that your head will spin around. Nerf them. Nerf them.
I hate the fact that Zerg can switch so fast without any consequences. If their Roach rush fail to my so hard mustered Immortal, they can easy get some Mutalisk to counter and if that fails just transition into Zergling for cheap price and get my Stalkers out of the battlefield back to the Shakuras.
I hate the fact that mass Mutalisk is nearly impossible to hold. I tryed everything, from slow and slow attacking Archon that just can't kill more then three mutas by himself, Phoenix that suck against Mutalisk and Stalkers that need to outnumber Mutalisk by three times to be effective against them.
I hate the fact like everyone who I meet to play is playing Zerg and going the same strategy.
I hate the fact there is no channels on Battle.Net 2.0
I hate the fact I can't watch replays with my girlfriend or friends that are online.
I hate the fact that because I'm on "Euro server" can only play people who are on that server (mostly Europeans)
I hate the fact that sound effects are not good like in StarCraft 1. Zerg dieing should be somewhat glorious sound of bones and wings breaking. Protoss souls should have more "spirit"(oh irony) in it when going to their resting place on Shakuras. Terrans should squeak more like people often do (humans that is).
I hate the fact that Terran music is not good as last one. I won't comment on Protoss one - no pride in it. Protoss is pride race. Protoss power.
I hate the fact Queen is overpowered. She can attack air and ground, you can have more then one of them, she can heal units so fast and plenty and also can spawn 4 larvas on the Hatchery.
I hate the fact Protoss doesen't use one of most prideful units in Protoss arsenal - Dark Templar (So be it, from shadows we come and etc.).
I hate the fact I don't have Valkyrie anymore (Don't keep me waiting).
I hate the fact that Reavers are gone.
I hate the fact "P" doesn't stand for Probe or Pylon anymore.
I hate the fact that there is autosurround.
I hate the fact that StarCraft 2 BETA has already been hacked.
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It hasn't been properly hacked yet.
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I hate the fact that ppl whine so loud
Nerf whiners, don't keep me waiting.
EDIT: That being said, I don't think we can declare things imbalanced quite yet. Cause something can be "temporarily OP" just because people are not countering it correctly. Lets play a few more weeks until we starting saying things are OP. A few weeks will show the development of many new counter-strategies.
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You can chronoboost Warpgates and make pump out HT every ~15 seconds.
ya
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