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On September 11 2020 09:46 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2020 08:50 Nemireck wrote:On September 07 2020 08:25 JimmiC wrote:
Well that was a dramatic and unexpected outcome! Shouldn't have been that unexpected. Giannis needs to learn how to shoot, or else without elite support, this is going to become the story of his entire career. The unexpected outcome was the bucks coming back to win the game without him! Edit: man harden is being erased.
Think my comment still stands, lol.
It doesn't show in the regular season, but in the playoffs, his lack of shooting gets exposed. Removing him from the floor and adding a player who can shoot gave Miami a different look that they probably hadn't prepared for.
Side note: Jimmy Butler is still probably the most underrated player in the league. He's been in my top 5 for years now, and I still hear talking-heads talk about him as not being a "real superstar." I don't get it.
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On September 11 2020 11:36 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2020 03:49 cLutZ wrote:
My thoughts about game quality are already clear, I was just saying, like, maybe make a less horrifying commercial. Stan Van Gundy literally looks like he's being held hostage, and so does Doc Rivers. Defense has been picking up with these last few teams remaining in the playoffs. Both LA teams have been winning with it and the Raptors-Celtics series has been a defensive slugfest most of the time. So was the Heat-Bucks series. Show nested quote +On September 11 2020 08:50 Nemireck wrote:On September 07 2020 08:25 JimmiC wrote:
Well that was a dramatic and unexpected outcome! Shouldn't have been that unexpected. Giannis needs to learn how to shoot, or else without elite support, this is going to become the story of his entire career. He needs more finesse. Even Shaq doesn't commit offensive fouls as often as he does. Gotta be able to spin away from a defender and then have touch around the basket. Giannis' spins are so violent he often plows through the help defense.
Very true. Teams are locking in. Also probably getting their sealegs.
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injuries play a factor most years.
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I think if you have had Jimmy in your top 5 for many years that's toughish for me. You have Lebron, Kahwi, Durant as just solid locks since 2016. You have to really value defense to have had him over Curry/Harden in their great seasons, and there are just always lurkers like AD and Giannis and even Paul George when he has his own team.
You can argue you thought he was potentially a better playoff guy, but we hadn't really seen it until now. Harden went to game 7 of the WCF, for example.
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On September 12 2020 01:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think if you have had Jimmy in your top 5 for many years that's toughish for me. You have Lebron, Kahwi, Durant as just solid locks since 2016. You have to really value defense to have had him over Curry/Harden in their great seasons, and there are just always lurkers like AD and Giannis and even Paul George when he has his own team.
You can argue you thought he was potentially a better playoff guy, but we hadn't really seen it until now. Harden went to game 7 of the WCF, for example.
I do value defense very heavily. For instance, I have never considered Harden a top five player, and I waver back and forth on Curry, although you can't argue with the results and so I tend to give it to him based on the wins and how he plays a more team oriented style of game than Harden does.
So for the last bunch of years, my top five has been Kawhi, LeBron, KD, Jimmy Butler, and Steph Curry. No particular order except to say that Jimmy Butler has never been in my top three.
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I'm the opposite. I don't understand Butler's reputation as a clutch scorer. This is his first time making the conference finals and he's usually been an inefficient scorer compared to other stars. I don't see how his defense rates better than the likes of Davis, Giannis and Paul George and they are all better scorers than Butler.
Right now, I'd take Tatum over him. Maybe even Siakam.
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On September 12 2020 08:32 andrewlt wrote:
I'm the opposite. I don't understand Butler's reputation as a clutch scorer. This is his first time making the conference finals and he's usually been an inefficient scorer compared to other stars. I don't see how his defense rates better than the likes of Davis, Giannis and Paul George and they are all better scorers than Butler.
Right now, I'd take Tatum over him. Maybe even Siakam.
As a Toronto fan I've been on the receiving end of way too many Jimmy Butler fourth quarters were 10 to 15 point lead shrivels away to a loss against Chicago. I haven't looked up his efficiency numbers anytime recently to speak on that at the moment, but I remember checking out his rapm standings in the past and he was always top five in net rating, which I personally value.
Those three names are all great as well and definitely in the top five discussion although I think Giannis is currently a one-trick pony that gets exposed in the playoffs. You can't be top five if you don't know how to shoot. And I'll admit that Paul George and Anthony Davis have kind of flown under the radar on me because they were playing in small markets that I didn't pay any attention to.
That's the thing about top 5 discussions though, there's always 7 to 10 players that deserve to be mentioned depending on the day.
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On September 12 2020 05:33 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2020 01:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think if you have had Jimmy in your top 5 for many years that's toughish for me. You have Lebron, Kahwi, Durant as just solid locks since 2016. You have to really value defense to have had him over Curry/Harden in their great seasons, and there are just always lurkers like AD and Giannis and even Paul George when he has his own team.
You can argue you thought he was potentially a better playoff guy, but we hadn't really seen it until now. Harden went to game 7 of the WCF, for example. I do value defense very heavily. For instance, I have never considered Harden a top five player, and I waver back and forth on Curry, although you can't argue with the results and so I tend to give it to him based on the wins and how he plays a more team oriented style of game than Harden does. So for the last bunch of years, my top five has been Kawhi, LeBron, KD, Jimmy Butler, and Steph Curry. No particular order except to say that Jimmy Butler has never been in my top three.
how/why did you rate butler over giannis in the last 2 years? PG in his last OKC year was pretty good too
i see your explanation above, id say that its more of the buck's system being exposed. feel like their system, principle wise, is very close to houston and maybe portland to an extent. give it to harden/giannis/lillard and get out of the way.
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On September 11 2020 22:34 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2020 09:46 JimmiC wrote:On September 11 2020 08:50 Nemireck wrote:On September 07 2020 08:25 JimmiC wrote:
Well that was a dramatic and unexpected outcome! Shouldn't have been that unexpected. Giannis needs to learn how to shoot, or else without elite support, this is going to become the story of his entire career. The unexpected outcome was the bucks coming back to win the game without him! Edit: man harden is being erased. Think my comment still stands, lol. It doesn't show in the regular season, but in the playoffs, his lack of shooting gets exposed. Removing him from the floor and adding a player who can shoot gave Miami a different look that they probably hadn't prepared for. Side note: Jimmy Butler is still probably the most underrated player in the league. He's been in my top 5 for years now, and I still hear talking-heads talk about him as not being a "real superstar." I don't get it.
brad stevens thinks its lowry
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The problem with Lowry is he gets injured during most playoff seasons and it limits his effectiveness. It is a catch-22 with Kyle. If he played less reckless he would get injured less often , however, he would not be as good of a defender.
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they changed the player on the TSN.ca web site so i am going have to watch it on a pirated stream. way to go Bell Globemedia. 
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On September 12 2020 09:12 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2020 05:33 Nemireck wrote:On September 12 2020 01:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think if you have had Jimmy in your top 5 for many years that's toughish for me. You have Lebron, Kahwi, Durant as just solid locks since 2016. You have to really value defense to have had him over Curry/Harden in their great seasons, and there are just always lurkers like AD and Giannis and even Paul George when he has his own team.
You can argue you thought he was potentially a better playoff guy, but we hadn't really seen it until now. Harden went to game 7 of the WCF, for example. I do value defense very heavily. For instance, I have never considered Harden a top five player, and I waver back and forth on Curry, although you can't argue with the results and so I tend to give it to him based on the wins and how he plays a more team oriented style of game than Harden does. So for the last bunch of years, my top five has been Kawhi, LeBron, KD, Jimmy Butler, and Steph Curry. No particular order except to say that Jimmy Butler has never been in my top three. how/why did you rate butler over giannis in the last 2 years? PG in his last OKC year was pretty good too i see your explanation above, id say that its more of the buck's system being exposed. feel like their system, principle wise, is very close to houston and maybe portland to an extent. give it to harden/giannis/lillard and get out of the way.
I think it's less the Bucks system getting exposed and more that the non-Giannis players keep disappearing. Middleton goes from 50/40/90 in the regular season to 40/30/doesn't get to the line in the playoffs. Bledsoe can't seem to hit an outside shot. I just saw them stand around and brick too many way open 3-pointers that Giannis created for them against Miami. Their defense was best in the league in the regular season but it hasn't been right in the bubble.
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finally siakam gets pulled
gotta wonder if Masai regrets offering the max contract
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On September 12 2020 10:44 CorsairHero wrote:
finally siakam gets pulled
gotta wonder if Masai regrets offering the max contract
you're talking about a guy who traded Bargnani and Derozan. Siakam has a 3 point shot and plays some defense. His contract is far more tradable than Derozan's.
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On September 12 2020 10:38 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2020 09:12 zev318 wrote:On September 12 2020 05:33 Nemireck wrote:On September 12 2020 01:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think if you have had Jimmy in your top 5 for many years that's toughish for me. You have Lebron, Kahwi, Durant as just solid locks since 2016. You have to really value defense to have had him over Curry/Harden in their great seasons, and there are just always lurkers like AD and Giannis and even Paul George when he has his own team.
You can argue you thought he was potentially a better playoff guy, but we hadn't really seen it until now. Harden went to game 7 of the WCF, for example. I do value defense very heavily. For instance, I have never considered Harden a top five player, and I waver back and forth on Curry, although you can't argue with the results and so I tend to give it to him based on the wins and how he plays a more team oriented style of game than Harden does. So for the last bunch of years, my top five has been Kawhi, LeBron, KD, Jimmy Butler, and Steph Curry. No particular order except to say that Jimmy Butler has never been in my top three. how/why did you rate butler over giannis in the last 2 years? PG in his last OKC year was pretty good too i see your explanation above, id say that its more of the buck's system being exposed. feel like their system, principle wise, is very close to houston and maybe portland to an extent. give it to harden/giannis/lillard and get out of the way. I think it's less the Bucks system getting exposed and more that the non-Giannis players keep disappearing. Middleton goes from 50/40/90 in the regular season to 40/30/doesn't get to the line in the playoffs. Bledsoe can't seem to hit an outside shot. I just saw them stand around and brick too many way open 3-pointers that Giannis created for them against Miami. Their defense was best in the league in the regular season but it hasn't been right in the bubble.
I'm certainly no expert so I'm just parroting what others have said in videos I've watched (coach Daniel, bballbreakdown) but... I'm convinced after two years of seeing it pointed out
Apparently it's the way the Bucks sag on drives to protect the paint, which gets exploited in the playoffs for wide-open threes. It works in the regular season because teams don't have as much time to gameplan specifically for them, and also because they leave the poor shooters open.
Good teams on the playoffs have more decent shooters, and also design plays to get their better shooters open against the scheme.
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On September 12 2020 11:31 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2020 10:44 CorsairHero wrote:
finally siakam gets pulled
gotta wonder if Masai regrets offering the max contract I think it is a fine deal, he's still improving and worst case he's a elite second option which you need and get paid Max contracts anyhow.
He's also a great defender so even when his shot isn't falling he has value.
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EPT
