Cavs go on a 24-2 run with LBJ on the bench. LOL.

The new ESPN Real Plus Minus #s have been updated for this week.
Tyreke Evans was mentioned by a poster on here as being a comeback player of the year candidate or most improved or something like that.

only 7 starters getting 30+ minutes rank higher than Evans @ shooting guard...
one of those 7 starters is merely +0.01 better. According to RPM Evans is playing very well.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 20 2017 23:27 GMT

#1242

ESPN Insider did a rookie rankings. its behind a paywall so here is the list. I added each players' Offensive Real Plus/MInus, Defensive Real Plus/Minus and their over all Real Plus Minus.

[image loading]

Donovan Mitchell went #13, OG Anunoby went #23, John Collins went #19, and Jordan Bell went #38 in the 2017 draft.

Let's see how this compares in the "Points Added//Points Saved" Chart.
[image loading]

Ace

United States16096 Posts

December 21 2017 00:34 GMT

#1243

Not even surprised OG Anunoby is up there. Toronto probably won't even need Norman Powell by ASB.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 00:50 GMT

#1244

i legitimately have a SportsNet.ca subscription and i should be able to watch tonight's Raptors game live in 720p
well its coming in at about 240p... it stutters if i put it any faster than that.

so now i'm going to r/nbastreams to pirate a 720p stream i'm paying for
what a joke.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 21 2017 02:20 GMT

#1245

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 02:22 GMT

#1246

ya, Wiggins is a +11 because his replacement, Shabazz whatshisface, is abysmal and had what few minutes Thibs gave him taken away from him.
if Wiggins could play games against his own bench he'd be awesome.

Unfortunately, he plays games against other small forwards like Jayson Tatum and OG Anunoby... 2 guys that are better players and 2+ years younger.

All these #s prove Minnesota's bench is horrible especially with Normy injured. That said, Thibs did a nice job last game limiting Wiggins minutes and riding a red hot Crawford last game.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 21 2017 02:28 GMT

#1247

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 02:38 GMT

#1248

no, because Shabazz is a bad player via direct observation.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 21 2017 02:41 GMT

#1249

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 02:56 GMT

#1250

welp, don't look now... but Toronto and Boston both have 8 losses.

Wiggins is somewhere between the 18th and 21st best starting small forward in the NBA. He has got to fix his jump shot and his free throw shooting.

With Fox hurt Sacramento had Hill playing the role to which he is most accustomed. surprise, surprise, he played like his old self. if sac gives the keys to the car back to Fox when he is healthy Hill will starting sucking again.

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

December 21 2017 04:22 GMT

#1251

I am skeptical of the TWolves bench numbers just because Thibs is so erratic with his bench management.

andrewlt

United States7702 Posts

December 21 2017 05:20 GMT

#1252

I'm skeptical of Wiggins because even in my fantasy league, he ranks 160th because of a total lack of non-scoring production. He's not even one of those players that fools people by putting up empty fantasy numbers.

Highlights include:
1. worse rebounder than Chris Paul and Damian Lilliard
2. fewer assists than Klay Thompson
3. equivalent ft% with Andre Drummond

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

December 21 2017 13:46 GMT

#1253

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JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 15:57 GMT

#1254

On December 21 2017 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
Explain to me how Kevin Love was the 5th best PF on D last year but Lue subbed him out on defense in important moments?

i don't watch Cleveland enough to know. Don't follow them closely enough.

Similar to this move by Lue.... in Toronto this is the situation....
Overall, JV is Toronto's best defensive Center. However, Casey will use any of Poetl, JV, Ibaka, or Noguiera late in a game based on the current matchups. Casey will also sub out any small forward or shooting guard and replace them with 6 foot tall Fred fucking Van fucking Vleet. Prolly Lue, like Casey, has a careful and deep read on all his players and makes curious looking substitutions that appear odd to casual watchers.

To me Casey's moves look dead bang on correct 95% of the time. But, i watch the team pretty closely. Most casual observers constantly question Casey's moves. 1 time he inexplicably pulled Derozan. No one could understand it. turned out that the night before Demar's wife/gf left him and his kids and went to LA. DD was mentally "out of it". So even in the odd occasion when i can't understand a Casey move.. there is something going on behind the scenes i don't know about.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 16:03 GMT

#1255

On December 21 2017 22:46 JimmiC wrote:Also, despite the "wiggins is awful on Defense" thoughts of the RAPM community, Thibs disagree's. Last night after the Wolves scored to pull ahead he subbed out Taj Gibson for Wiggins when they really needed a swap.

no, Wiggins took Crawford's spot. Watch the game. Crawford got pulled 40 seconds later for Gibson. Wiggins is a better defender than Crawford. This doesn't mean Wiggins is better than 20+ small forwards i can name.

On December 21 2017 22:46 JimmiC wrote:
Yeah his FT #'s have fallen off a cliff this year, If those stay like they are he will not be very valuable. What he does do well is he finshes like a superstar on slashing plays and near the rim and his "gravity" is high, meaning he attracts a lot of attention on the O end which opens it up for others.

Also, despite the "wiggins is awful on Defense" thoughts of the RAPM community, Thibs disagree's. Last night after the Wolves scored to pull ahead he subbed out Taj Gibson for Wiggins when they really needed a swap. A coach does not do that for a terrible defender like a Kevin Love, he only does that for a stopper. If Thibs didn't value wiggins Defense he would have kept him on the bench on subbed him in for offense. So at least in his coaches eyes he is doing what is right in their system.

His numbers were going to drop when Butler came, that was a given because they do much of the same things (but butler does them better at this point) the telling part will be how much better does wiggins get because of it. For example Olidpo credits Westbrook with how he is doing this year.

I have no problem with people saying Wiggins is not a superstar right now. He's not. OR that he's not a Max a player, he's not. But then again he's not paid like one till next year. Clearly the wolves are paying on production not performance. But he is still a great young player and I think will still round out to a allstar level wing.

no, its not just the RAPM "community". just watch last year's games .. he was bad. on/off, points-saved, opposition fg%, opp. eFG all point to Wiggins being the worst starting small forward on defense in 2016-2017. every team mate's defensive rating got substantially worse once Wiggins joined them on the floor. Source : 82games.com

last night, Thibs substituted Wiggins in for Crawford only after the Timberwolves got the lead with ~2 minutes left. Wiggins is a better defender than Crawford. That does not mean Wiggins is a better defender than a long list of 20 small forwards i can name. Wiggins is often better than the list of limited options Thibs has at his disposal so Thibs uses him.

this year there are about 5 small forwards he is better at on defense. he is improving. he is definitely better than Crawford on defense. and he is definitely a better defender than last year. he still isn't even average though.

as i stated in my previous post look for Thibs to keep using Crawford when they need offense and pull him out when they need defense .... as long as Wiggins shooting woes continue.

Thibs did a nice coaching job last night.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

December 21 2017 17:23 GMT

#1256

You guys are fucking terrible at player evaluation.

Gravity on offense. Lol. This overused sports writer term needs to go. Newsflash:

Any player cutting towards the rim has gravity.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17504 Posts

December 21 2017 17:28 GMT

#1257

last 2 games Minnie enters trailing in the 4th quarter... by 9 in one game and by 4 in the other.
Minnie stages a comeback and wins.
Wiggins only plays 5 out of 24 fourth quarter minutes in the last 2 games.

Casey mysteriously sticks Fred Van Vleet, a 6 foot tall, undrafted, 2nd year player into critical 4th quarter minutes game after game after game.

Casey trusts FVV and Casey is 21-8 with the best 4th quarter defensive rating in the NBA.
Thibs doesn't trust Wiggins.

Dwane Casey arrives to the ACC with a wheel barrow .. he needs it to carry his testicles.

Hands up everyone who predicted Fred Van Vleet would be getting more 4th quarter minutes than Andrew Wiggins...