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The Raptors are getting boo-ed out of the building. LOL.
Sullinger is getting fatter every week, meanwhile, Casey is searching for someone to take Joseph's minutes away from him. Fred VanVleet and proven playoff producer and 10 year veteran Delon Wright are filling out their applications.
More seriously, as i stated last year throughout the entire playoffs the Raptors WERE the #2 team in the east in the 2015-6 season. And they WERE #2 by a very small margin. Its not like they rolled over any one last year. The Raptors are only a small amount worse than they were last year. But, they are worse and that is enough for them to no longer be the #2 team in the east.
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Klay Thompson in the 3rd quarter vs the Kings is must see tv.
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Klay is one of those players that is so absolutely amazing at times that you can kinda get mad at him for being merely one of the top 25 players in the league.
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Lavine has been out of the line up before this year and has missed 10 games. If you want to increase the sample size you can include those games as well. Wiggins definitely carries the ball more without Lavine in the lineup.
When all is said and done i think we're going to discover that the Timberwolves are a slightly better team without Lavine in the line up; which is what i said before Lavine got hurt.
WIggins puts up nice offensive boxscore #s; his defense is weak. When you watch him live or on TV he is passive and "low energy". Defensive analytic #s indicate this as well. The one advantage of being listless, passive and just plain standing around when your team does not have the ball is you really lower your probability of injury... and Wiggins never gets hurt. So Wiggins' passive approach to defense does have that one rather odd upside. And i'm not being facetious here. Parker and Embiid... if they don't fix what they got going on.. they may never even have full careers.
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I never said Wiggins would perform better without Lavine in my previous post either. I've never even really thought about it. I said the Timberwolves will be a better team without Lavine because Rush is a slight improvement over Lavine. I am covering something different than your post. Now that Lavine is out we'll have lots of data to go on. Let's see what happens.
So far Wiggins is a below average player and he is improving independent of Lavine's presence in the Minnesota lineup because players in the early 20s improve a lot.
My stuff may appear to be "all over the map" because that is how reality works. It can't be summed up in a 6 word catch phrase. There are many subtle positives and negatives to the Lavine injury situation, Wiggins as a player, and the Timberwolves as a team. That's reality.
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offensively he is above average. defensively he is below average. watch the games and you'll see that. defense analyics #s clearly indicate Wiggins is a well below average defender. summing up his entire game he may have improved from being below average at the start of the year into being average by the end of this year. A lot of players in their early 20s improve quickly. As you've stated yourself.
Look at Lucas Nogueira. He is leaps and bounds better than he was at the start of the year.
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the defensive analytics #s agree with me on Wiggins' defense. he is 80th in DRPM amongst small forwards this year. there is no "group think" here.
are there any analytics indicating Wiggins' is an average or good defender? the guy is bad on defense.
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Where does this link reveal data indicating Wiggins is a good or even average defender right now? this is just more offensive boxscore data. So I take it you are conceding Wiggins is , right now, a bad defender. great.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5
i don't believe defensive analytics provide a dead-on accurate assessment. they do provide a very good ballpark estimation though.
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On February 17 2017 01:35 JimmiC wrote:
Which means I don't have any data to say he's a good or bad defender over the last 10 days or a month and was wondering if anyone else knew of such a site. The site you provided is again doing it by season.... lol
All I have is my own impressions from watch the games. Which has been 8 of the last 10. Not up to your keen "scouting" of 500 mins over the season. Or your confirmation bias.
no point in discussing such a small sample size because it just devolves into "i know b-ball better than you do". Furthermore player performance fluctuates sharply from week to week so its a bad idea to generalize based a week or two.
if you want to discuss Wiggins cumulative performance throughout the entire 2016-2017 season just look at my previous posts. in 2016-2017 Wiggins is a below average player, a below average small forward, and a poor defender. Every piece of analytics indicates this and i see it with my own eyes when i've watched him play in 2016-2017. He is better than he was 2 years ago. Is he improving on a monthly basis the way a guy like Nogueira has? i don't see it... but i don't watch every minute of every Wolves game like i do the Raptors ... so its hard for me to say.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS/position/5
do you watch every minute of every Wolves game? if someone does and can chime in on Wiggins' progress that'd be interesting to add to the convo.
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undermanned? they are missing 1 guy. everyone is healthy. Sullinger ate his way out of a starting job. Casey is grasping at straws putting together haphazard lineups trying to find someone who can play.
i guess they should be on their way to a title. if they can squeak by Charlotte at home and get stomped by Chicago on the road then they should be able to handle GSW , the Spurs and Cleveland no problems. Ujiri is in "win now" mode watching this!
On February 17 2017 02:13 JimmiC wrote:
He is a above average player I've read all your posts you writing it doesn't make it true. Look at all the various BS you have wrote.
there is zero data to support this claim. offensive box score data provides a small section of the total game.
On February 17 2017 01:15 JimmiC wrote:
As I stated he is improving much like Zach lowe said.
Zach Lowe is saying pretty much the same thing i am about Wiggins' ceiling as a player.
here is your own post on this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/515339-nba-2016-17-season?page=27#539
Zach Lowe: "Wiggins will be an All-Star. Will he be a top-5 or even a top-10 player? Maybe not. But when did that become the standard? When did anything but that become a failure?"
On February 17 2017 02:13 JimmiC wrote:
He is progressing nicely I think the wolves are pleased and I think that in 2-3 years your position is going to look foolish not as bad as Ace's but bad. That being said you were part of the trade wiggins team so it will look pretty bad.
i'm pretty much saying what Lowe has said and what you posted. He'll be an All-Star in the future. He won't be considered amongst the top 5 players in the NBA. Lowe says "maybe not" to Wiggins being a top-5 player and i say "definitely not".
so at this point we're splitting hairs over some projection years into the future. unless you are now going to claim he'll be a top-5 player next year.
On February 17 2017 02:13 JimmiC wrote:
Also watching the games give you some picture of defending but not a great one because the Camera's often iso on the ball and so do your eyes naturally.
you still have zero objective information to show Wiggins is a good or even average defender in 2016-2017 so i gather you are conceding this point. the 1 game i saw Wiggins play live he was horrible on defense.. and its not like i'm the only 1 saying he is a bad defender. i know how to watch games on TV.. live is better though.
How many Wiggins games have you watched live this year?
If someone else has attended several Timberwolves games live they might be able to add to the convo.
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On February 17 2017 03:02 JimmiC wrote: If you think Wiggins is going to be a allstar with top 10 potential you would be crazy to trade him. You are crazy to be arguing with me if you agree because that is what I think and have been saying all along.
ya, i don't agree. i don't think he has the top-5 potential Lowe say he might have. no idea about top-10. it gets so vague how its defined when u get to top-10. and its not like your source Zach Lowe provided some ringing endorsement of Wiggins as a future top-5 superstar or top-10 superstar. so again we're splitting hairs.
why such strong language like "you are crazy" over small differences in future projections between me and Zach Lowe.. i don't get it.
any how, i've had enough Andrew Wiggins talk for today.
On to some good news. Oakley's MSG ban is lifted.
https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2017/02/14/charles-oakleys-ban-from-madison-square-garden-lifted.html
by firing his chief security guard Dolan has created wiggle room for an apology to Oakley. I hope Oakley gets the apology.
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EPT
