I swear I just read somewhere that it's actually not that great. The writer was arguing that the pairing either with Draymond and having the other spot up is actually more efficient. Might have been a Zach Lowe article since I remembered it. Or maybe I'm just imagining things. lol

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

January 13 2017 06:25 GMT

#533

It might not be great consistently, but it looks so goddam impossible to guard. Its like in intramural b-ball where that one team has guys that run around like Kyle Korver all game and their team "picks" you all the while. Sometimes that is not doing much because the guy is 10% shooting, but its terrible to play against regadless.

Jerubaal

United States7684 Posts

January 13 2017 14:47 GMT

#534

Don't worry. You can take comfort in knowledge that it will hurt both their legacies.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17815 Posts

January 13 2017 19:20 GMT

#535

isn't Atlanta undefeated since trading Korver and Cleveland hasn't won since acquiring him.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17815 Posts

January 13 2017 19:31 GMT

#536

On January 13 2017 00:08 JimmiC wrote:
This no effort shit is BS, what do you base it on him not yelling , screaming and banging his chest? Dude is running back on D, going through screens so on.

My issue is not with him not being the best nor have I said that he was, my issue was that Ace called, and calls him garbage. So when you argue with me about Wiggins you are more or less calling him garbage which doesn't even seem to be what you believe. I think you were just so excited that I a disagreed with someone else that you jumped on that bandwagon not even knowing what it was.

I think most peoples issue with wiggins was the hype he had in college of him being the next Jordan and he has not delivered. Basically he was overrated then, now the pendulum has swung the other direction and he's underrated because he's not Jordan. You'd be crazy to not want this guy on your team, with what he now, and with what he could become.

Wiggins is a very poor defender and exhibits little effort on defense, My direct observations of ~120 minutes of Wiggins indicate he is a poor defender. Every metric for defense i've seen re enforces my observations.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/5

does this guy ever foul out? Does this guy ever even get the smallest of nicks and bruises intense, effective defenders get several times a year? I think he has missed 1 game in 3 years. I guess a great way to be an iron man is too minimize physical contact all year long.

without any metrics for defense that indicate Wiggins is even a below average defender the other way to advance this conversation would be to hear from someone who has watched 500+ minutes of Wiggins this year and get their insights.

the article linked below reflects most closely my position on Wiggins. Interestingly, it attempts to paint a dichotomy between direct observation and the advanced stats provided. However, i think the metrics on Wiggins are representative of my limited direct observations (~120 minute) of the guy. There is no dichotomy.

https://theringer.com/andrew-wiggins-timberwolves-advanced-stats-debate-1588a6909ce8#.vz5n5we6o

the author also indicates Wiggins stands around a lot. Its not like i'm the only one who notices this.

the Wiggins debate is an interesting test for the validity of advanced stats and i think shutting down an Andrew Wiggins discussion would be bad for the thread. personal attacks do not add much to the thread though. i think if the discussion is focused on Wiggins rather than argument ad hominem it'll be fine.

User was warned for this post

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

January 13 2017 20:23 GMT

#537

--- Nuked ---

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17815 Posts

January 13 2017 20:24 GMT

#538

that is misquote. i've stated on 2 occasions that WIggins is below average and he will develop into an above average player. At no time did i ever characterize Wiggins as "garbage". I've backed up my assessment of Wiggins as below average with a comprehensive explanation of his defensive deficiencies. His offensive linescores are all out there for everyone to see. Add them up and you get a below average player. Rather than continue to misquote me just take it to PM.

if there are some new, interesting advanced stats measuring defense that indicate Wiggins is better than the measures i've provided i'd like to see them.

The Derrick Rose thing is getting weirder by the day.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/derrick-rose-knicks-tweet-communication-is-key/580r41bakxft1o5reamjit5zj