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I would argue the better health bar isn't as impactful as you think it is since you're much slower and can't use Sprint to get out of dodge if you're under fire. It makes you slightly more durable to ranged poke, but both having heals means effective health bars are basically the same.
Bastion's heal is only better in that it's faster and has no CD. Soldier's heal can be used while moving, while shooting, doesn't get interrupted on damage, and effects allies as well as yourself, making it better for engagements because you help your team and don't remove yourself from the fight completely.
I guess if all you're doing is going off by yourself and harassing, Recon Bastion stacks up better in these regards, but in the context of duels and teamfighting, Soldier is much more effective. So I suppose it depends on your playstyle.
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On July 07 2016 23:05 Requizen wrote:
I would argue the better health bar isn't as impactful as you think it is since you're much slower and can't use Sprint to get out of dodge if you're under fire. It makes you slightly more durable to ranged poke, but both having heals means effective health bars are basically the same.
Bastion's heal is only better in that it's faster and has no CD. Soldier's heal can be used while moving, while shooting, doesn't get interrupted on damage, and effects allies as well as yourself, making it better for engagements because you help your team and don't remove yourself from the fight completely.
I guess if all you're doing is going off by yourself and harassing, Recon Bastion stacks up better in these regards, but in the context of duels and teamfighting, Soldier is much more effective. So I suppose it depends on your playstyle.
I don't know the geometry exactly but it definitely feels like bastions head is harder to hit than soldiers either way.
but i don't particularly care about sprint because im never in a position with eeither character that i'm so far out of space i need to stop shooting to retreat, It's super useful when you have no symmetra or are out of sync with lucio or something to get back into the fight. but I'm not too concerned about the combat uses of it. bastion definitely loses out not having it, but i don't particularly notice that. The big loss is helix rockets. but i trade the easy squishy kills for better tank killing
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On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close.
You mean prestige?
Yeah I haven't been playing often enough.
Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly.
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Has anyone experienced this: there have been a few times I've entered a game and its almost as if other movement keys are being pressed (aswd). I'll run forward from spawn and then its like I'm hitting invisible walls and sliding a different direction. Like if you've ever been on a laptop and your like why is this happening and then realize your brushing the touchpad at the same time. It goes away after 30-60 seconds, I've never seen any other issues with my keyboard and so I'm not sure if its something in OW or what.
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On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly.
yess yesss let the hate flow through you. search your feelign you know it to be true. from my perspective the overwatch are evil etc etc.
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On July 07 2016 23:30 mordek wrote:
Has anyone experienced this: there have been a few times I've entered a game and its almost as if other movement keys are being pressed (aswd). I'll run forward from spawn and then its like I'm hitting invisible walls and sliding a different direction. Like if you've ever been on a laptop and your like why is this happening and then realize your brushing the touchpad at the same time. It goes away after 30-60 seconds, I've never seen any other issues with my keyboard and so I'm not sure if its something in OW or what.
It's really bad lag.
Happens to me every day.
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On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly.
You're playing solo too much?
It really doesn't feel like lag btw, everything else in the game is fine. But maybe there's some weird input lag issue with the game loading.
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On July 07 2016 23:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 23:05 Requizen wrote:
I would argue the better health bar isn't as impactful as you think it is since you're much slower and can't use Sprint to get out of dodge if you're under fire. It makes you slightly more durable to ranged poke, but both having heals means effective health bars are basically the same.
Bastion's heal is only better in that it's faster and has no CD. Soldier's heal can be used while moving, while shooting, doesn't get interrupted on damage, and effects allies as well as yourself, making it better for engagements because you help your team and don't remove yourself from the fight completely.
I guess if all you're doing is going off by yourself and harassing, Recon Bastion stacks up better in these regards, but in the context of duels and teamfighting, Soldier is much more effective. So I suppose it depends on your playstyle. I don't know the geometry exactly but it definitely feels like bastions head is harder to hit than soldiers either way. but i don't particularly care about sprint because im never in a position with eeither character that i'm so far out of space i need to stop shooting to retreat, It's super useful when you have no symmetra or are out of sync with lucio or something to get back into the fight. but I'm not too concerned about the combat uses of it. bastion definitely loses out not having it, but i don't particularly notice that. The big loss is helix rockets. but i trade the easy squishy kills for better tank killing
Recon Bastion's head hitbox isn't any smaller than Soldier's, nor is it any bigger. What is bigger is Bastion's body, it's tank-size and in a lot of situations that's a considerable liability.
Recon Bastion's rifle also has drawbacks that Soldier's doesn't without any significant advantages. It does less damage per second, loses accuracy faster, and reloads slower.
Which isn't to say that Recon mode is bad, but that you really need to be doing more than a nominal amount of tank killing to make the tradeoff worthwhile.
Also, you can aim Soldier's ult. Whichever target is closest to your reticle is the one you'll shoot. This is extremely useful for picking off Mercy/Pharah and stopping them from turning around a teamfight.
On July 07 2016 23:30 mordek wrote:
Has anyone experienced this: there have been a few times I've entered a game and its almost as if other movement keys are being pressed (aswd). I'll run forward from spawn and then its like I'm hitting invisible walls and sliding a different direction. Like if you've ever been on a laptop and your like why is this happening and then realize your brushing the touchpad at the same time. It goes away after 30-60 seconds, I've never seen any other issues with my keyboard and so I'm not sure if its something in OW or what.
I've experienced something similar, the cause being Overwatch somehow thinking I'm holding down a directional key I'm not. Mashing my directional keys a bit usually clears it up once I realize what's happening.
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On July 07 2016 23:50 Seuss wrote:
Recon Bastion's head hitbox isn't any smaller than Soldier's, nor is it any bigger. What is bigger is Bastion's body, it's tank-size and in a lot of situations that's a considerable liability.
Recon Bastion's rifle also has drawbacks that Soldier's doesn't without any significant advantages. It does less damage per second, loses accuracy faster, and reloads slower.
Which isn't to say that Recon mode is bad, but that you really need to be doing more than a nominal amount of tank killing to make the tradeoff worthwhile.
Also, you can aim Soldier's ult. Whichever target is closet to your reticle is the one you'll shoot. This is extremely useful for picking off Mercy/Pharah and stopping them from turning around a teamfight.
Both guns have perfect accuracy the first two shots, and bastions is only slightly inaccurate the 3rd shot while soldiers keeps full accuracy. But soldier becomes more inaccurate if you are spraying than bastion does. Either way both can burst fire with perfect accuracy and in bastions case miss a headshot and get a body shot 50% of the time on the third shot and the difference in fire rate doesn't matter as much there. So in burst form bastions gun dealing more damage is an advantage as burst firerate is limited by human input (you aren't going to get the full firerate burst firing with soldier. it just won't happen). So really it's the reload speed and the third shot inaccuracy difference that matter. but the 20% (full falloff) to 12.5% (no falloff) more damage per bullet really help there with bastions burst fire. Both characters manage about the same firerate when burst firing.
I'm not concerned about body shots though. Like if i get hit in the body i'm winning fights that i'm getting headshots.
For the ults. yeah i know you can drag the targetting to change, but you can't precisely aim which is what i don't like. if that mercy wiggles between a couple characters you waste 3-6 rounds or if she ducks behind something your aim swaps to something else. where bastion can just aim his explosion behind stuff or between enemies to hit everyone. 205 damage per shot is fun. The Auto aim only dealing bodyshots makes it less good to me. the 170 max dps of the visor vs the 227.5 DPS of the tank mode plus splash damage makes me prefer it. Not having to aim is nice, but having good aim is better. Most of all i don't like having control taken away from me. i hate that feeling and it's why i really don't play widow anymore since they made her scope/unscope clunky feeling, and soldiers ult gives that same feeling :<
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On July 07 2016 23:32 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly. You're playing solo too much? It really doesn't feel like lag btw, everything else in the game is fine. But maybe there's some weird input lag issue with the game loading.
I was getting that a lot when I was playing on WiFi, but it cleared up when I hard lined in. But if you don't think it's lag then maybe it's CPU usage? I sometimes have to kill Chrome because it's a memory hog.
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On July 08 2016 00:03 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 23:32 mordek wrote:On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly. You're playing solo too much? It really doesn't feel like lag btw, everything else in the game is fine. But maybe there's some weird input lag issue with the game loading. I was getting that a lot when I was playing on WiFi, but it cleared up when I hard lined in. But if you don't think it's lag then maybe it's CPU usage? I sometimes have to kill Chrome because it's a memory hog.
It's strange as I just did a major upgrade so I'm pretty sure not a CPU issue but I'll check it next time it happens. Keyboard is wired in too btw.
also, there's a reason soldier and bastion are different characters. One of the main benefits of bastion is his sentry mode so it just seems silly to ignore. Seems like you, px, just want to outplay with your headshots so I'm just not sure why you don't just play soldier lol.
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On July 08 2016 00:07 mordek wrote:
also, there's a reason soldier and bastion are different characters. One of the main benefits of bastion is his sentry mode so it just seems silly to ignore. Seems like you, px, just want to outplay with your headshots so I'm just not sure why you don't just play soldier lol.
I like the break-even point of the headshots more:
150: 5 200: 6 250: 8 for Soldier:
150: 4 200: 5 250: 7 for Bastion
thats' pretty much the main reason. that and having full control over my ult and the ability to handle reinhardt shield quickly.
TTK is a big thing for me in shooters and why i played widow originally. OW feels way too slow to me without those extra TTK advantages.
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I don't even understand what you are arguing, you know weebs that like genji/hanzo? Well PX gets off on that robot shit.
It's stupid to argue if soldier or bastion is better since soldier is better. You guys are just getting pulled into a sonnigton.
On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly.
You probably hit bottle neck in your play.
On July 08 2016 00:19 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2016 00:07 mordek wrote:
also, there's a reason soldier and bastion are different characters. One of the main benefits of bastion is his sentry mode so it just seems silly to ignore. Seems like you, px, just want to outplay with your headshots so I'm just not sure why you don't just play soldier lol. I like the break-even point of the headshots more: 150: 5 200: 6 250: 8 for Soldier: 150: 4 200: 5 250: 7 for Bastion thats' pretty much the main reason. that and having full control over my ult and the ability to handle reinhardt shield quickly. TTK is a big thing for me in shooters and why i played widow originally. OW feels way too slow to me without those extra TTK advantages.
So interestingly enough,
2, 2, 2 burst rounds for those hp characters for soldier to kill but 2, 3, 4 for Bastion.
There is also Mccree which has the shortest TTK of all hitscan character (except reaper) in 0-19m range at 0,5 seconds for all characters except tanks and bastion.
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On July 07 2016 21:43 Sunaj wrote:
Yo Gahlo, is that one of the starters or what? Cuz I want it.
Nah, just one of the ones out there in the wild. Fire starters always get automatic consideration due to there being a lack of fires, let alone good ones, but this thing is just hella neat and the first fire/poison ever.
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On July 08 2016 00:26 Eppa! wrote:
So interestingly enough,
2, 2, 2 burst rounds for those hp characters for soldier to kill but 2, 3, 4 for Bastion.
Yeah if you are going for the perfect accuracy bursts. but the third shot from bastion does tend to go where you want it to much more than not. the accuracy loss is tiny. so only at like sniper-range would that change the burst pattern.
Though even if you don't drag the burst to the first inaccurate shot bastion roughly fired 3 bursts in about the same time as soldiers two. Burst fire is weird that way. so much that the 25% faster firerate of Soldier doesn't really impact burst timings until going onto 3 bursts for soldier.
The other characters i play are reaper and widowmaker, and occasionally roadhog when i'm impersonating soniv.
all characters with huge burst or quick TTK.
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On July 07 2016 23:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 23:50 Seuss wrote:
Recon Bastion's head hitbox isn't any smaller than Soldier's, nor is it any bigger. What is bigger is Bastion's body, it's tank-size and in a lot of situations that's a considerable liability.
Recon Bastion's rifle also has drawbacks that Soldier's doesn't without any significant advantages. It does less damage per second, loses accuracy faster, and reloads slower.
Which isn't to say that Recon mode is bad, but that you really need to be doing more than a nominal amount of tank killing to make the tradeoff worthwhile.
Also, you can aim Soldier's ult. Whichever target is closet to your reticle is the one you'll shoot. This is extremely useful for picking off Mercy/Pharah and stopping them from turning around a teamfight. Both guns have perfect accuracy the first two shots, and bastions is only slightly inaccurate the 3rd shot while soldiers keeps full accuracy. But soldier becomes more inaccurate if you are spraying than bastion does. Either way both can burst fire with perfect accuracy and in bastions case miss a headshot and get a body shot 50% of the time on the third shot and the difference in fire rate doesn't matter as much there. So in burst form bastions gun dealing more damage is an advantage as burst firerate is limited by human input (you aren't going to get the full firerate burst firing with soldier. it just won't happen). So really it's the reload speed and the third shot inaccuracy difference that matter. but the 20% (full falloff) to 12.5% (no falloff) more damage per bullet really help there with bastions burst fire. Both characters manage about the same firerate when burst firing. I'm not concerned about body shots though. Like if i get hit in the body i'm winning fights that i'm getting headshots. For the ults. yeah i know you can drag the targetting to change, but you can't precisely aim which is what i don't like. if that mercy wiggles between a couple characters you waste 3-6 rounds or if she ducks behind something your aim swaps to something else. where bastion can just aim his explosion behind stuff or between enemies to hit everyone. 205 damage per shot is fun. The Auto aim only dealing bodyshots makes it less good to me. the 170 max dps of the visor vs the 227.5 DPS of the tank mode plus splash damage makes me prefer it. Not having to aim is nice, but having good aim is better. Most of all i don't like having control taken away from me. i hate that feeling and it's why i really don't play widow anymore since they made her scope/unscope clunky feeling, and soldiers ult gives that same feeling :<
At full spray both Soldier and Bastion are equally inaccurate. For burst fire the difference is effectively a 4 round burst from Soldier versus a 3 round burst from Bastion (.4s vs .375s), which is still in Soldier's favor damage-wise.
Regarding falloff, according to this research on reddit Bastion's Recon falloff kicks in sooner than Soldier's, and their modifiers are identical, so there's no advantage there for Bastion either.
Body shots are relevant not because your opponent will be aiming at your larger body, but because your larger body is going to eat more incidental fire, shots that would otherwise be misses, and projectiles that don't care about head vs body (e.g. rockets, grenades, lazer beams).
Fundamentally even the best players in the world aren't 100% accurate because dodging and weaving is something other players do. That's why Soldier's ultimate is valued even in pro play, being able guarantee the death of critical enemies (particularly Mercy and Pharah) is huge, and while Bastion's ultimate does more damage and is better in some circumstances, the surgical value of Soldier's ultimate is often greater.
On July 08 2016 00:26 Eppa! wrote:
I don't even understand what you are arguing, you know weebs that like genji/hanzo? Well PX gets off on that robot shit.
It's stupid to argue if soldier or bastion is better since soldier is better. You guys are just getting pulled into a sonnigton.
I'm mostly trying to correct factually incorrect or misleading information, because that's a thing I do.
Like those TTK numbers are misleading because the time it takes for Soldier to fire 8 rounds is less than the time it takes Bastion to fire 7 rounds, even in burst fire scenarios.
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On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly.
dont worry im sure the next big OT game will just keep you playing it all day!
im certain its the games fault dont even worry about it!
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On July 08 2016 00:43 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On July 07 2016 21:47 Seuss wrote:
So close to my Overwatch level reset. So very close. You mean prestige? Yeah I haven't been playing often enough. Something about OW has lost its lustre for me and I don't know why exactly. dont worry im sure the next big OT game will just keep you playing it all day! im certain its the games fault dont even worry about it!
jeez dandel
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Lol
Mordek it's absolutely ping/lag issues. Look for those weird orange lag symbols that pop up in the top right. Happens to me all the time right before I DC with my shitty shitty Internet.
Eppa it has nothing to do with my skill as a player. I'm pretty garb but I'm also not taking OW particularly seriously as I did LoL or mtg. Improving is all well and good but I'm honestly just playing to have fun so winning/losing/stagnating rating-wise has nothing to do with it.
I do suspect it's that I've been playing by myself too much. I really wish we could get inhouses going 
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EPT
