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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 08 2016 23:04 WaveofShadow wrote: Supposedly the latest discussion is how the pro scene is going to get very stale very quickly because of how necessary (and Op?) widow is. It's been torb, Genji, Lucio, Zenyatta, Symmetra etc. the game is full of that kind of necessary utility. but at least widow has other options ot get her ult. since her gun isn't particularly grand and her damage values stink vs symmetra/torb. I think damage/HP numbers are going to need to be revamped before competitive play is at all in a good place. Game is incredibly stale at high levels. and too small of a cast for pick ban to spice it up. also genji should probably be reworked or removed. that kit is just. mindnumbing. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 00:15 Nos- wrote: how do you play zenyatta symmetra into widows and mccrees? Last I watched comp it was double mccree widow rein lucio mercy + 1 with genji's lots and lots of genjis. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 00:39 Nos- wrote: They nerfed zen heal and sym's shield from 50 to 25 to prevent the genji comps I thought, that was a beta thing They did. but genji still has 200 hp, a double jump a dash a reflect and 180 damage in .4 seconds or 270 if a discord orb is on someone. Genji's kit is the problem. He's going to be nearly ubiquitously useful until some big changes imo. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Widow seems to have arisen as a problem after the 1 hero limit events got her more playing time and the pros realized how good she is if they have one of the top end widows(taimou, reaver, tviq, etc). | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 01:08 red_ wrote: Are you just talking without watching any of the top end pro play? Genji was barely played even in the one class limit events, let alone when teams are allowed to run their double McCree. It was a couple people that are considered amazing Genjis and even then their contribution wasn't game breaking or anything. Widow seems to have arisen as a problem after the 1 hero limit events got her more playing time and the pros realized how good she is if they have one of the top end widows(taimou, reaver, tviq, etc). what should i just say "play the same thing but better" because that is what competitive overwatch is right now. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
There was a super good analogy on reddit today about widows oppressive nature vs that of pre nerf awp. In csgo, awps if you aren't shooting well with them can feed upwards of three or four rounds worth of money which is crippling to a team. In OW if you're not shooting well on widow your just not able to compete at the high level because enemy widow can two or one tap everyone, on top of you playing bad is probably only feeding over maybe 5% of an ult. If you thought the awp was good, widow is just better. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Widow doesn't really oppress me but that's because we're bad. Apart from the obvious when I'm behind a wall and ult lets her know I'm not trying to take a detour, so she has 2-3s to put the crosshair right where my head will be when I step out (killcams are painful when you get killed this way), they're usually required to be decent to it makes up for it compared to Hanzo/Mei/etc. Although an actually good Widow takes over a game much more than any other hero it feels like. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 01:48 Cixah wrote: I'm starting to think you just play a way different game than red/our stack does. Gengi and tracer aren't as oppressive on a game as mccree/widow are. And even in games where they are a "problem" for your supports its because your not fighting as a team or are getting beat in shooter duels anyway. There was a super good analogy on reddit today about widows oppressive nature vs that of pre nerf awp. In csgo, awps if you aren't shooting well with them can feed upwards of three or four rounds worth of money which is crippling to a team. In OW if you're not shooting well on widow your just not able to compete at the high level because enemy widow can two or one tap everyone, on top of you playing bad is probably only feeding over maybe 5% of an ult. If you thought the awp was good, widow is just better. I've never had an issue vs widow. at all. even the ones with really good accuracy. McCree is McCree stuns and RNG hammers are obnoxious. Genji's kit is periodically going to be a problem for a long long time though. Competitive overwatch thus far as really just been play the same stuff as the opponent but try to do it better. maybe adjust 1 character. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 02:26 Nos- wrote: xizor i've never seen a genji in pro play even from some of the best genjis around, zenyatta gets one shot by a widow with a bodyshot and I don't see how torb does anything against mccree widow. Symmetra can be run on hollywood defense with Mercy but that's about the extent of her usefulness to me. Oh the torb/symmetra comment was because 25 or 75 hp drags everyone outside of body-shot range from widow, and a couple characters out of headshot range as well. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
You know who I find really annoying? Freaking Junkrat. Good ones tilt me super hard. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On June 09 2016 02:59 Requizen wrote: So what I'm getting from this conversation is like PX is talking from a Bronze/Silver/Gold perspective and what's going on in LCK is just completely opposite. You know who I find really annoying? Freaking Junkrat. Good ones tilt me super hard. Correct. Good rats are good, the problem right now is that he's pretty choke heavy map like Anubis or gibralter to excel. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 02:59 Requizen wrote: So what I'm getting from this conversation is like PX is talking from a Bronze/Silver/Gold perspective and what's going on in LCK is just completely opposite. You know who I find really annoying? Freaking Junkrat. Good ones tilt me super hard. LOL. no i'm talking about the game design Genji is a problematic design. competitive scene is too young to go to for picks and meta adjustments. when it's mostly dictated by changes in rules at this point (between events or by patches). My biggest problems with genji as it comes to playing vs him is he's too quiet so i can't listen to music and hear his footsteps. doesn't make his design less problematic though. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On June 09 2016 03:05 PrinceXizor wrote: LOL. no i'm talking about the game design Genji is a problematic design. competitive scene is too young to go to for picks and meta adjustments. when it's mostly dictated by changes in rules at this point (between events or by patches). Why is he a problematic design? His design is high damage output for very high risk and pretty much works in low tier games because nobody has awareness. He would die very quickly in any good tier games regardless of if people "adjusted" to him. His kit just isn't team based enough. Widow can lock down an entire team, mccree is also a sniper with redonk close range dmg and long range dmg etc etc. The heroes picked right now seem to be the ones that kill ezpz fast with accuracy and the people that are integral to help survive a team fight and initiate (mercy lucio) which i don't think will shift much at all. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2016 03:10 Holyflare wrote: Why is he a problematic design? His design is high damage output for very high risk and pretty much works in low tier games because nobody has awareness. He would die very quickly in any good tier games regardless of if people "adjusted" to him. His kit just isn't team based enough. Widow can lock down an entire team, mccree is also a sniper with redonk close range dmg and long range dmg etc etc. The heroes picked right now seem to be the ones that kill ezpz fast with accuracy and the people that are integral to help survive a team fight and initiate (mercy lucio) which i don't think will shift much at all. having his perfect accuracy and high speed burst, and his really weird amount of defensive abilities is going to cause a lot of issues whenver he rises to popularity. He's oppressive when he's good. and that's resulted in numerous nerfs to other characters to try to compensate, over the very short span of competitive overwatch. and yo you do know that it wasn't long ago double genji WAS the competitive comp. it's switching pretty rapidly. but it doesn't make it any less true. Lucio's overheal and speed is always gonna be real strong though. he's pretty much a gimme on teams until a new character usurps him or they nerf it a lot i guess. | ||
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