EPTThe LiquidLegends Lounge - Page 1232
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On May 12 2016 12:05 Cixah wrote: Soulfire, fist of jarraxxus is probably my favorite deck in the brawl. Totemic tuskar plus evolve was p cool too. Part of me wants to run curse of rafaam + renounce darkness. it'll lose every game because it's not lame, but it'll be funny. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Loses 90% of matches but it's hilarious. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
Holy shit was that movie so 90's and manly. Fucking loved Wesley Snipes back then. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On May 12 2016 09:12 Eppa! wrote: A lot of the issues currently found in OW heroes I mention can be seen in legacy LoL characters. The characters I mentioned suffer from the same issues. Again ignoring balance release Soraka, Nunu, Maokai, Yi and Xin Zhao suffer from the I would rather these characters didn't exist because they are silly and boring. Does it take skill to play Maokai? sure but it's one dimensional and even if you play him at peak of competitive play it is not rewarding here you can also see how but it's for noobs argument falls flat. Your argument about lol characters is exactly what i'm saying you're not getting. Just because someone is mechanically simple doesn't mean there isn't a TON of other ways you can use your map movement and decision making to influence gameplay. To use the league example, I know people got got masters playing only old soraka, and I know people stuck in bronze/silver playing old soraka, and I know people in platinum playing old soraka. Just because you can't insec or make picks doesn't mean you aren't making thousands of meaningful decisions over the course of the game, where every one has the potential to change the course of the entire thing. This argument of "character is simple, therefore it's not rewarding to be good" is just what people say when they don't realise that they're actually just trash and don't understand what it means to play optimally, or realise all the thousands of error's they're making on this "simple" champion. Just because you play only zed and lee sin doesn't make you a better player than the guy in your game playing maokai, he just relies much more on larger picture decision making, positioning, and snap second engage decisions, while you rely more on just yolo mechanics and your poor decision making can be carried/obfuscated by your mechanics. Just look at how hauntzer completely wrecked everyone on maokai a few weeks ago when very few other people were playing him. Sure OW is a bit of a balance clusterfuck right now, but assuming the game doesn't flop on release, they'll probably put a ton of effort into trying to balance stuff over the next year or two, so that direction of argmuent seems a rather unfair criticism of a beta. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
I played a bunch of it over the weekend and it didn't really grab me. Maybe having a full team on team will be more fun but the maps just didn't really make me want to play more. It all felt a bit too chaotic and dirty to me. Reminds me of when I tried to play tf2 years after it went F2P with all the hats making the game feel a mess. It's better than I thought I'd be for a blizzard game though. Still doubt it'll be the next big thing in arena shooters. ps. I don't get Eppa's complaint about simplistic characters. They aren't inherently bad. Look at Dota. So many of the heroes are rather simple in concept but that doesn't detract from the enjoyment or even the skill required to play them. Someone like CM who has very straight forward abilities still takes a lot of skill to utilize well. OW may be slightly different though as I mentioned earlier there are just fewer "variables" in the game to allow this kind of complexity. edit: this actually reminds me of a discussion Yanger and I had awhile back about the trend of point and click abilities being removed in league due to being easy or little counter-play. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how abilities work. Generally point and click abilities have a higher variance in opportunity cost compared to skillshots as a balance mechanism. So if you use your point and click on the wrong target in a teamfight it's normally far more impactful than if you do it with a skillshot. This emphasizes proper usage and timing of the ability more than skillshots. It's obviously not always true as you get high cooldown skillshots and low cooldown point and click but as a rule of thumb especially for CC abilities it tends to hold true more than it doesn't. I actually think it's poor game design if you require overly complicated skills/heroes to differentiate player skill. SC2 is a perfect example of this where they added stuff like mules to add needless complexity due to their removal of it from the core gameplay compared to BW. Having said that there's nothing wrong with having some interesting or complex kits though. It just shouldn't be used as a crutch. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
then they simultaneously phased out p&c and the model stacking cuz they saw that it made games retarded, can't have p&c without counterplay, but perfect counterplay is also toxic af. again, IIRC, but it wasnt removed because it was too easy, or there was no counterplay, but because it made people do deathball sieges SC2 style. and nobody wants to look like SC2. point being boring mechanics most of the times lead to boring gameplay. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
SC2 suffered from a lot of things. The game was too fast was a big one that never really got addressed. Actually now that I think about it that was one of my issues when I played OW. It just felt like people die too quickly. Which is strange since in CS people die so fast yet the game feels fine to me. CS is actually another game that's insanely simple. Never knew about the model stacking. That's mad weird. Think Riot's hero design team has gotten quite a lot better over the years though. They still got the random overloaded kits every now and then but overall feels like they toned down on the pigeon holing a bit leaving a bit more room to explore. If only the team working on the overall game took a lesson from that. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On May 12 2016 21:18 Numy wrote: Boring mechanics and simple mechanics aren't necessarily the same thing. Look at a game like Quake 3. The mechanics are all incredibly simple and yet they get put together to make this complex mesh that is insanely high skill cap with high levels of reward. Honestly even when you look at BW it's a game filled with very simple and easily understood mechanics. There's maybe a handful of truly "this is complex" mechanics if even that. I'd argue that simple foundations lead to more possibilities. The issue with increasingly complex design is that it's often very focused so there are actually only a limited set of possibilities. SC2 suffered from a lot of things. The game was too fast was a big one that never really got addressed. Actually now that I think about it that was one of my issues when I played OW. It just felt like people die too quickly. Which is strange since in CS people die so fast yet the game feels fine to me. CS is actually another game that's insanely simple. Never knew about the model stacking. That's mad weird. Think Riot's hero design team has gotten quite a lot better over the years though. They still got the random overloaded kits every now and then but overall feels like they toned down on the pigeon holing a bit leaving a bit more room to explore. If only the team working on the overall game took a lesson from that. IN overwatch. people are incredibly bullet spongey, unless you are a few different characters. they get to play CS with brink movement, everyone else gets to play Destiny vs people. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Unless they've got a Mercy or Harmony Orb healing them, most non-tanks die in 2-3s from constant fire, even less if you're using shotguns or get headshots off. Pharah 2-shots people, Zenyatta 3-shots them for example, most of the "delay" comes from the projectile speed. And when you tell me about point'n'click, I'll tell you about baiting a D. Va's matrix before Pharah or Reaper ults in. Or Maokai dodging stuff with the point'n'click Twisted Advance (winning lane for me was often just winning trades off of said dodges or playing around a wasted cooldown, and knowing when to add autos or to pull back after everything's on cd). Or Fiora's old Riposte to block enhanced autos. Having point'n'click also gives you reliability, remember when noone was picking point'n'click cc shortly after Kalista came out and she just never got caught? | ||
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
On May 12 2016 15:39 sung_moon wrote: People keep talking about Marvel movies/Civil War, and I just finished watching the first Blade movie. Holy shit was that movie so 90's and manly. Fucking loved Wesley Snipes back then. blade 2 is legit good | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On May 12 2016 22:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: you potentially can end up with nothing bought at all if the price never meets your limit.Someone with more stock experience than I have - is there a downside to limit buys other than not having access to the allocated funds for the duration of the order? On May 12 2016 21:36 Numy wrote: I'm not exactly sure what any of that means. I assume you trying to say people don't die quickly unless select few? That prob makes sense, I wasn't really playing any of the so called "tanks" which may be why. A few very mobile characters tend to explode people quickly, and a lot of the others tend to take forever to get kills by comparison. leads to people feeling like they play 2 different games, 1 where you are run and jump and shoot man and the other where you are shoot and stall and hide man. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
My own fault for cuddling my son while he was sick but I can't help it | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On May 12 2016 22:56 PrinceXizor wrote: you potentially can end up with nothing bought at all if the price never meets your limit. Well...yes, but that's the whole point of the limit buy. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
you could protect yourself from that by setting other limit orders though. i think its called market with protection. i dont mess with that stuff much | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
Like I'm literally throwing out a term that popped in my head, don't yell at me if its different  | ||
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