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On August 14 2017 05:12 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 05:00 ClanWars wrote:
Why a bunch of people suddenly decided to get a giant hardon for the belief that Kings now represents everything wrong with the equality of this scene while GSL and WCS continue to give hugely top-heavy prize distributions out every year is anyones guess. If I were to hazard it though, it'd be that one persons event is an easier bitching target than WCS or GSL. 1) As far as I know, this is the first event that has received additional funding outside of the WCS finals. 2) You criticized the Warchest then went ahead and accepted the money.
Yeah I did, because those arent contradictory positions.
Let's say you believe in privatized healthcare. Do you suddenly refuse to use the public healthcare system of your country? No of course not. You a libertarian? Cool, better never use a publicly funded thing ever then, hope you don't like driving on roads.
It is possible to not like a thing and still benefit from it and in fact it's incredibly stupid not to. Do you honestly want me to not accept additional prizemoney for my players, bearing in mind I take ZERO salary from Kings and still take ZERO salary from Kings after the warchest boost, because I personally don't like the warchest? How astonishingly unprofessional would that be?
You know I hated G2A and still cast Dreamhack right? That's called doing your job.
If people want to cry and scream hypocrite as if 1) its even correct, which its not and 2) it actually matters at all, which it doesnt, its the refuge of people with no proper argument, they can go right ahead.
Me, I prefer doing things to make this scene better and I dont have much patience for people who just whine and think thats a contribution to anything.
I mean you'd have to be pretty much insane to think that turning down sponsorship money from our primary sponsor is ever going to happen. Blizzard sponsors the event and always has. Where the money comes from doesn't matter in the slightest and as far as you know, every cent of it could have been warchest funded even if there hadnt been a prizepool increase and we would not have known or been able to do a damn thing about it.
I'm glad we've now gone to blaming SHOUTcraft Kings for all the scenes ills to actually complaining that we take money from our primary sponsor. That is by far the most delusional, out of touch thing I've read all day and what's sad is you're not the first jackass to say it and probably wont be the last either.
Now be careful, you wouldnt want to be a hypocrite. Make sure you never benefit, come in contact with or use anything you disagree with ever again in your life, otherwise you've committed a mortal sin and arent allowed to do anything anymore! Cos hypocrisy is a magic word that wins all arguments! If you're 5 years old....
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United States97276 Posts
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners
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On August 14 2017 05:20 ClanWars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 05:12 Boggyb wrote:On August 14 2017 05:00 ClanWars wrote:
Why a bunch of people suddenly decided to get a giant hardon for the belief that Kings now represents everything wrong with the equality of this scene while GSL and WCS continue to give hugely top-heavy prize distributions out every year is anyones guess. If I were to hazard it though, it'd be that one persons event is an easier bitching target than WCS or GSL. 1) As far as I know, this is the first event that has received additional funding outside of the WCS finals. 2) You criticized the Warchest then went ahead and accepted the money. Yeah I did, because those arent contradictory positions. Let's say you believe in privatized healthcare. Do you suddenly refuse to use the public healthcare system of your country? No of course not. You a libertarian? Cool, better never use a publicly funded thing ever then, hope you don't like driving on roads. It is possible to not like a thing and still benefit from it and in fact it's incredibly stupid not to. Do you honestly want me to not accept additional prizemoney for my players, bearing in mind I take ZERO salary from Kings and still take ZERO salary from Kings after the warchest boost, because I personally don't like the warchest? How astonishingly unprofessional would that be? You know I hated G2A and still cast Dreamhack right? That's called doing your job. If people want to cry and scream hypocrite as if 1) its even correct, which its not and 2) it actually matters at all, which it doesnt, its the refuge of people with no proper argument, they can go right ahead. Me, I prefer doing things to make this scene better and I dont have much patience for people who just whine and think thats a contribution to anything. I mean you'd have to be pretty much insane to think that turning down sponsorship money from our primary sponsor is ever going to happen. Blizzard sponsors the event and always has. Where the money comes from doesn't matter in the slightest and as far as you know, every cent of it could have been warchest funded even if there hadnt been a prizepool increase and we would not have known or been able to do a damn thing about it. I'm glad we've now gone to blaming SHOUTcraft Kings for all the scenes ills to actually complaining that we take money from our primary sponsor. That is by far the most delusional, out of touch thing I've read all day and what's sad is you're not the first jackass to say it and probably wont be the last either. Now be careful, you wouldnt want to be a hypocrite. Make sure you never benefit, come in contact with or use anything you disagree with ever again in your life, otherwise you've committed a mortal sin and arent allowed to do anything anymore! Cos hypocrisy is a magic word that wins all arguments! If you're 5 years old....
Your government services analogy is bullshit. We all pay taxes and are functionally responsible for the debt governments accumulate. You can use a service you don't like when you don't have a reasonable alternative and are forced into paying for it and not be a hypocrite.
I can't speak to the finances of your twitch channel, but are you saying that sub money that the channel earns doesn't go to you? Do you think nobody subscribes just because of the one event?
You're smart enough to know that the average person is extremely limited in their ability to support the scene. Suppose I had a million great ideas on tournaments and how prize pools should be distributed, do you think Blizzard would cut me a check for $5,000 a month to do that regardless of how thorough or professional my proposal is? Hell no because I'd have zero reputation nor do I represent a known company or brand. How long do you think it would take to establish that reputation? 6 months? A year? 2? How much time and money would I have to spend to build that and what guarantee is there that Blizzard wouldn't just decide to cut their support for the scene by then? Even if there were a guarantee, that's a lot to ask of someone when there is no payoff outside of personal sanctification.
Nobody is blaming SHOUTcraft Kings for all the scene's ills. Don't set up straw men.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On August 14 2017 06:04 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 05:20 ClanWars wrote:On August 14 2017 05:12 Boggyb wrote:On August 14 2017 05:00 ClanWars wrote:
Why a bunch of people suddenly decided to get a giant hardon for the belief that Kings now represents everything wrong with the equality of this scene while GSL and WCS continue to give hugely top-heavy prize distributions out every year is anyones guess. If I were to hazard it though, it'd be that one persons event is an easier bitching target than WCS or GSL. 1) As far as I know, this is the first event that has received additional funding outside of the WCS finals. 2) You criticized the Warchest then went ahead and accepted the money. Yeah I did, because those arent contradictory positions. Let's say you believe in privatized healthcare. Do you suddenly refuse to use the public healthcare system of your country? No of course not. You a libertarian? Cool, better never use a publicly funded thing ever then, hope you don't like driving on roads. It is possible to not like a thing and still benefit from it and in fact it's incredibly stupid not to. Do you honestly want me to not accept additional prizemoney for my players, bearing in mind I take ZERO salary from Kings and still take ZERO salary from Kings after the warchest boost, because I personally don't like the warchest? How astonishingly unprofessional would that be? You know I hated G2A and still cast Dreamhack right? That's called doing your job. If people want to cry and scream hypocrite as if 1) its even correct, which its not and 2) it actually matters at all, which it doesnt, its the refuge of people with no proper argument, they can go right ahead. Me, I prefer doing things to make this scene better and I dont have much patience for people who just whine and think thats a contribution to anything. I mean you'd have to be pretty much insane to think that turning down sponsorship money from our primary sponsor is ever going to happen. Blizzard sponsors the event and always has. Where the money comes from doesn't matter in the slightest and as far as you know, every cent of it could have been warchest funded even if there hadnt been a prizepool increase and we would not have known or been able to do a damn thing about it. I'm glad we've now gone to blaming SHOUTcraft Kings for all the scenes ills to actually complaining that we take money from our primary sponsor. That is by far the most delusional, out of touch thing I've read all day and what's sad is you're not the first jackass to say it and probably wont be the last either. Now be careful, you wouldnt want to be a hypocrite. Make sure you never benefit, come in contact with or use anything you disagree with ever again in your life, otherwise you've committed a mortal sin and arent allowed to do anything anymore! Cos hypocrisy is a magic word that wins all arguments! If you're 5 years old.... Your government services analogy is bullshit. We all pay taxes and are functionally responsible for the debt governments accumulate. You can use a service you don't like when you don't have a reasonable alternative and are forced into paying for it and not be a hypocrite. I can't speak to the finances of your twitch channel, but are you saying that sub money that the channel earns doesn't go to you? Do you think nobody subscribes just because of the one event? You're smart enough to know that the average person is extremely limited in their ability to support the scene. Suppose I had a million great ideas on tournaments and how prize pools should be distributed, do you think Blizzard would cut me a check for $5,000 a month to do that regardless of how thorough or professional my proposal is? Hell no because I'd have zero reputation nor do I represent a known company or brand. How long do you think it would take to establish that reputation? 6 months? A year? 2? How much time and money would I have to spend to build that and what guarantee is there that Blizzard wouldn't just decide to cut their support for the scene by then? Even if there were a guarantee, that's a lot to ask of someone when there is no payoff outside of personal sanctification. Nobody is blaming SHOUTcraft Kings for all the scene's ills. Don't set up straw men.
You seem fairly intelligent and reasonable.. not sure how said person gets to a place where they would argue with TB that somehow.. him accepting more money for the event he was already doing is hurting the scene in any way or (and this is even sillier) making the rich get richer and making it so we have "the same 20 pros" etc. I mean.. I can quote you further but you know what you said right?
It wasn't smart or good. It isn't TB's job to make tourneys with the explicit purpose you think is most "important" for the scene and criticizing him for putting on a show that you think could have it's funds go elsewhere is really really dumb. Be happy he has made it part of his business to make shows / content we can enjoy. If you'd like other forms of content empower the people who can / would do it as best you can. Tearing down TB doesn't actually do that btw.
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Damn it Bly ruined everything !
On August 14 2017 05:35 Shellshock wrote:
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners
Agree
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How long do you think it would take to establish that reputation? 6 months? A year? 2?
I spent 8.
Better get a move on, times a wastin'. Aint nobody giving you anything for a forum post, especially when its got such inaccuracies as claiming we're just propping up the top 20 players when we've now invited over 70 to our event, with 3 new invitees today alone.
I respect people who try to do something meaningful, even if its really small. Grandstanders and backseat organizers? Not so much. People who treat arguments as if they're videogames to be won and judged on points? Not so much either. You really think that government analogy matters at all? You got the point, but then you tried to play semantics with it because you're more concerned with "winning" an internet argument than building anything. There aren't any winners, there's no prizes, no points, nobody is acting as judge. Its a literal waste of time, he says in full awareness that he's also wasting his time.
If people dont have enough respect for the work I do to avoid stooping to silly levels like trying to make bullshit hypocrisy arguments or trying to dictate where money that doesn't belong to them goes, I'm not going to respect what they have to say either. That should be common sense, nobody is owed respect by default beyond basic politeness (until they stop being polite....). Respect has to be earned and respect that isnt earned isnt worth anything anyway.
8 years. 8 years of the bullshit and the complaining and the disrespect, even now. Some would wonder why I put up with it and sometimes I ask that question myself. A lot of people didnt put up with it and just left when the going got tough for greener pastures and more money. Maybe instead of trying to browbeat those of us that are left, try to help us make the scene better instead.
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it was a greate and very funny SC2 event today! Thanks to TB and everyone who helps to let SHOUTCraft Kings happen!
And to all who complain about the extra prizemoney for shoutcraft kings.
TB is dedicating a lot of time and money to run some fun and a little bit less serious events("most unfair tournamnet in SC2" ) and if blizz decides to inverst more money into it, than that´s great.
to say that shoutcraft kings didn´t do anything for the scene is simply not right. It has one of the highest viewerships of all SC2 events and is creating a lot of really cool stroies of which there are not too many in SC2. Both are things that are essential to get new people into the scene.
And even if you have a different opinion on that, don´t blame TB for things he can do anything about it.
It´s not his fault that there is no Code A or anything like it anymore. Blizzard is not a charity organisation, the only reason for them to invest money into SC2-esport is that it is an advertisement for their game.
Convince blizz that it is worth it to run tournaments for up and coming players and things like that but don´t talk shit about things that have nothing to do with that.
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And if you think:
the average person is extremely limited in their ability to support the scene.
Take,TB, the guys from BaseTradeTV,... were all average people when their started..
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btw I´m hyped for this Luchador-thing you guys are planing 
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I came back to the scene just this June because of shoutcraft kings. Thank you TB for doing such a great event. Looking forward to next month!
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On August 14 2017 05:35 Shellshock wrote:
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners
Koreans were playing well past midnight though. Foreigners had an unfair advantage.
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On August 14 2017 11:28 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 05:35 Shellshock wrote:
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners Koreans were playing well past midnight though. Foreigners had an unfair advantage.
they always play past midnight lol, sometimes they stream until 3 am and sleep in.
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On August 14 2017 11:28 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 05:35 Shellshock wrote:
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners Koreans were playing well past midnight though. Foreigners had an unfair advantage.
Lal tahts standard. Korean progamers frequently keep late hours and absolutely adjust schedules when they know they have big events coming up that require it.
It's just part of being a progamer.
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On August 14 2017 11:28 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 05:35 Shellshock wrote:
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners Koreans were playing well past midnight though. Foreigners had an unfair advantage.
Dumb excuses as always.
Serral's wins were early on, and Neeb is in Korea too.
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On August 14 2017 15:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2017 11:28 geokilla wrote:On August 14 2017 05:35 Shellshock wrote:
Gap confirmed not closed. Koreans lagging behind foreigners Koreans were playing well past midnight though. Foreigners had an unfair advantage. Dumb excuses as always. Serral's wins were early on, and Neeb is in Korea too.
Koreans were jet lagged.
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I bet it was played on the European server too.
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I can't believe the Koreans just weren't trying.
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France12901 Posts
Results look like terrancraft.
What happened?
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Bet TB made sure to have a big round of ads right before each korean played to tire them out as much as possible too.
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France12901 Posts
On August 14 2017 18:13 Durnuu wrote:
Bet TB made sure to have a big round of ads right before each korean played to tire them out as much as possible too.
As far as I see on liquipedia, koreans didn't perform that bad, just terrans.
That doesn't surprise me much :D
Why is everyone arguing on the last pages?
What is this debate about?
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EPT
