★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (16)
67%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 1?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 2?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
4%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (12)
50%
★★★ - Good game (7)
29%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
13%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 2?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 3?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (9)
29%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (18)
58%
★★★ - Good game (3)
10%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
3%
31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 3?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 4?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (47)
69%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (17)
25%
★★★ - Good game (1)
1%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
4%
68 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 4?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 5?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (4)
15%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (15)
58%
★★★ - Good game (5)
19%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (2)
8%
26 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 5?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 6?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (5)
31%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
13%
★★★ - Good game (3)
19%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
19%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
19%
16 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 6?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 7?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
11%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
11%
★★★ - Good game (4)
22%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8)
44%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 7?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Perfect I van try to get 1 more hour of sleep before the big match! Gsl>SSL. I had a nightmare where Snute 4-1ed a korean in a korean finals but there is no such thing in this one
Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
No big names? TY, Stats and Dark want a word with you.
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
No big names? TY, Stats and Dark want a word with you.
Dark and Stats are SSL big names, not GSL :p. TY is overrated.
Man I hope ByuN takes this. I wonder why I'm not the only one who finds Dear a bore. It should be a good story line: player wins two titles in an incredible display of dominance, and is now coming back to form and getting deep in a major tournament.
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
No big names? TY, Stats and Dark want a word with you.
Dark and Stats are SSL big names, not GSL :p. TY is overrated.
Unless the leagues are wrestling-level rigged, I can't see how that matters TY is as overrated as the whole of KT, which means that while he is seriously overrated, he is still a top player after correcting for that. (Such on observation makes it even harder to comprehend how a team with such star players is gonna be totally demolished tomorrow ...)
On September 02 2016 18:28 neutralrobot wrote: Man I hope ByuN takes this. I wonder why I'm not the only one who finds Dear a bore. It should be a good story line: player wins two titles in an incredible display of dominance, and is now coming back to form and getting deep in a major tournament.
Dear is in his 3rd consecutive GSL semifinal and most people either don't care or don't realize. He got faceless Korean'd by his time on mouz I think.
On September 02 2016 18:28 neutralrobot wrote: Man I hope ByuN takes this. I wonder why I'm not the only one who finds Dear a bore. It should be a good story line: player wins two titles in an incredible display of dominance, and is now coming back to form and getting deep in a major tournament.
Dear is in his 3rd consecutive GSL semifinal and most people either don't care or don't realize. He got faceless Korean'd by his time on mouz I think.
Yeah, I guess I am one of those most people. I can't even remember seeing Dear doing anything but lose
On September 02 2016 18:28 neutralrobot wrote: Man I hope ByuN takes this. I wonder why I'm not the only one who finds Dear a bore. It should be a good story line: player wins two titles in an incredible display of dominance, and is now coming back to form and getting deep in a major tournament.
Dear is in his 3rd consecutive GSL semifinal and most people either don't care or don't realize. He got faceless Korean'd by his time on mouz I think.
Yeah, I guess I am one of those most people. I can't even remember seeing Dear doing anything but lose
Dear never looks that impressive when winning but he still just wins anyway. He's silently become a really good player somehow
On September 02 2016 18:28 neutralrobot wrote: Man I hope ByuN takes this. I wonder why I'm not the only one who finds Dear a bore. It should be a good story line: player wins two titles in an incredible display of dominance, and is now coming back to form and getting deep in a major tournament.
Dear is in his 3rd consecutive GSL semifinal and most people either don't care or don't realize. He got faceless Korean'd by his time on mouz I think.
Yeah, I guess I am one of those most people. I can't even remember seeing Dear doing anything but lose
Dear never looks that impressive when winning but he still just wins anyway. He's silently become a really good player somehow
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
No big names? TY, Stats and Dark want a word with you.
Dark and Stats are SSL big names, not GSL :p. TY is overrated.
Unless the leagues are wrestling-level rigged, I can't see how that matters TY is as overrated as the whole of KT, which means that while he is seriously overrated, he is still a top player after correcting for that. (Such on observation makes it even harder to comprehend how a team with such star players is gonna be totally demolished tomorrow ...)
Then why is Dark still well performing in SSL yet still absent in GSL? He is more successful in SSL and it shows. TY is a top player but there are at least 10-12 as capable as him in the league, so it's not that surprising that he couldn't make it. It was close vs Dear who is a good PL player as well (had him as captain), even though his play seems bad at times he manages to scrap wins when it matters.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
What? Why? What happened?
He put 3 Bunkers at the lower end of Nesteas Ramp (the map lacked the little destructable element to prevent wall offs at the ramp). So Nestea was locked in his main while Byun roasted the expansion lol
On September 02 2016 18:19 opisska wrote: Looking at the GSL semis, I can't help but wonder: WTF happened? None of the four names would be me first pick for a GSL winner before the season ... ByuN came out of nowhere this season, Dear was sorta good, but always failing, sOs was always more of a foreignercraft fame (even though he wasn't irrelevant in Korea) and Myungsik has been PL toss filler since ever.
ByuN has been the best terran for a while. It even shows on aligulac! Apart from Zest there weren't really any big names to qualify in the first place...
Btw, does ByuN qualify for Blizzcon if he goes to the finals, or does he need to win both this match AND the finals in order to qualify? I hope for the former, winning two bo7 TvP in a row after being studied is not something advantageous for the terran usually.
No big names? TY, Stats and Dark want a word with you.
Dark and Stats are SSL big names, not GSL :p. TY is overrated.
Unless the leagues are wrestling-level rigged, I can't see how that matters TY is as overrated as the whole of KT, which means that while he is seriously overrated, he is still a top player after correcting for that. (Such on observation makes it even harder to comprehend how a team with such star players is gonna be totally demolished tomorrow ...)
Then why is Dark still well performing in SSL yet still absent in GSL? He is more successful in SSL and it shows. TY is a top player but there are at least 10-12 as capable as him in the league, so it's not that surprising that he couldn't make it. It was close vs Dear who is a good PL player as well (had him as captain), even though his play seems bad at times he manages to scrap wins when it matters.
I would assume Dark does better in SSL because usually by the time his Ro16 group in GSL happens he's already in the Ro8 for SSL so it's better to focus his practice on that. No reason why he would be inherently better at one than the other, especially since SSL's format is totally different this season than it was last season.
Also the map abuse was when they played Metropolis without the depot at the bottom ramp and Byun bunker-blocked him. Those bunker-rushes where the main reason depots at the ramps got added in the first place
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
What? Why? What happened?
He put 3 Bunkers at the lower end of Nesteas Ramp (the map lacked the little destructable element to prevent wall offs at the ramp). So Nestea was locked in his main while Byun roasted the expansion lol
Wasn't this related to the SlayerS drama? Iirc, Coca wasn't allowed to practice with the other players or something, so he wanted another game vs ByuN?
I just vaguely remember this and don't have a source atm, so take this with a big grain of salt.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
What? Why? What happened?
He put 3 Bunkers at the lower end of Nesteas Ramp (the map lacked the little destructable element to prevent wall offs at the ramp). So Nestea was locked in his main while Byun roasted the expansion lol
Wasn't this related to the SlayerS drama? Iirc, Coca wasn't allowed to practice with the other players or something, so he wanted another game vs ByuN?
I just vaguely remember this and don't have a source atm, so take this with a big grain of salt.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
What? Why? What happened?
He put 3 Bunkers at the lower end of Nesteas Ramp (the map lacked the little destructable element to prevent wall offs at the ramp). So Nestea was locked in his main while Byun roasted the expansion lol
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Since there was no rematch Id' say the admins ruled that it was a legal move, no?
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Matchfixing scum.
?
I have a list with possible match fixers and Byuns not on it
Wouldn't a list of possible match fixers include every single player?
Byun didn't even play during the scandal period
you're talking about a silly incident years before I remember vaguely (remind me pls)?
Byun Coca "scandal" Coca was qualified for code S not Byun. They were friends and playing in ESL and the winner of the league was rewarded by a code S spot (or code A I don't remember that was 5 fucking years ago). Coca won game 1 and had won game 2 Byun asked him to leave Coca left and Byun won game 3. "Matchfixed"
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
Plus abusing broodlord infestor for months is far worse than this XD.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Since there was no rematch Id' say the admins ruled that it was a legal move, no?
I mean, what are they supposed to do? It was their mistake in the end. Still, knowing they've made a mistake and abusing it without saying anything is a dick move.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
I dunno if the chatting thing would be an issue, it's not like it was KeSPA.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
Plus abusing broodlord infestor for months is far worse than this XD.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
They most certainly would not have given him a penalty for chatting if he'd pointed out a mistake they made. That's a silly thought. Plus, he apparently knew beforehand because that strategy was planned. He'd have to have noticed in the lobby where chatting is perfectly fine.
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
We won't since they'll change the design after Blizzcon anyways. There'll be plenty enough PvP at said Blizzcon anyways. Please no more bad mirror finals .
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
They most certainly would not have given him a penalty for chatting if he'd pointed out a mistake they made. That's a silly thought. Plus, he apparently knew beforehand because that strategy was planned. He'd have to have noticed in the lobby where chatting is perfectly fine.
He could have noticed while setting his camera locations at the start of the game and then in that moment decided to just go for it. If he noticed in the lobby already it definitely was a dick move. If he did notice ingame and then just adjust to it it's a little less of a dick move in my opinion
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
We won't since they'll change the design after Blizzcon anyways. There'll be plenty enough PvP at said Blizzcon anyways. Please no more bad mirror finals .
They don't change anything about Protoss to the point PvP stops being adept vs adept.
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
wouldn't count on it
what would you change to improve upon the match up/ race?
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
What? Why? What happened?
He put 3 Bunkers at the lower end of Nesteas Ramp (the map lacked the little destructable element to prevent wall offs at the ramp). So Nestea was locked in his main while Byun roasted the expansion lol
Mvp did the same to NesTea on Bel'Shir Beach
Remember when they first introduced Entombed Valley and Mvp played against some Zerg for the first time on that Map and he put a Marine in a small niche next to the ramp and sealed that spot off with a Bunker so the Marine was "trapped" in there and also safe from any harm the Zerg could do while Mvp started another Bunker atop of the ramp. Good times :D
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Yeah and if he had said something, they would have likely given him a penalty for chatting. It's the job of the admins to enforce the rules, not the players and this could have been solved by the admins VERY easily.
They most certainly would not have given him a penalty for chatting if he'd pointed out a mistake they made. That's a silly thought. Plus, he apparently knew beforehand because that strategy was planned. He'd have to have noticed in the lobby where chatting is perfectly fine.
He could have noticed while setting his camera locations at the start of the game and then in that moment decided to just go for it. If he noticed in the lobby already it definitely was a dick move. If he did notice ingame and then just adjust to it it's a little less of a dick move in my opinion
iirc he noticed when preparing for the match, asked GSL admins if that was correct version and they confirmed it. He didn't mention the lack of blockers though.
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
wouldn't count on it
what would you change to improve upon the match up/ race?
Just rework adepts really, make them a core gateway unit but remove shade. Shade is the dumbest thing about them.
On September 02 2016 18:32 Olli wrote: Dear 4-0 please
Not against a Dear win but 4-3 would be better no?
No, I don't like Byun at all. Unlike most, I never forgave or forgot.
remind me of Byuns wrongdoing(s) pls?
Map abuse vs Nestea in GSL and most importantly cheating his way into a GSL spot
How did he cheat into a GSL spot?
"Map abuse" is a stupid term and nothing to be taken against the players. They are supposed to use the strategy that is most likely to win, it is up to Blizzard and GSL to set up the rules properly. There is no "honourable" way of playing.
He noticed that they were using the wrong map and abused it saying nothing. Nobody else noticed until he abused it. The map should have been repeated, but it wasn't and Nestea got tilted off the face off the earth.
Abusing an obvious admin mistake makes Byun a dick in my book.
Since there was no rematch Id' say the admins ruled that it was a legal move, no?
I mean, what are they supposed to do? It was their mistake in the end. Still, knowing they've made a mistake and abusing it without saying anything is a dick move.
Eh, maybe. I feel it's sort of what others have said. It's the players job to win, not to enforce the rules. That's the admins job. Sure, it would have been "honorable" to say something, but faulting him for not doing so, I don't know. Nestea could have complained as well and he didn't. Besides, that was ages ago. It's a pretty minor thing in my book.
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
wouldn't count on it
what would you change to improve upon the match up/ race?
Just rework adepts really, make them a core gateway unit but remove shade. Shade is the dumbest thing about them.
make them ranged zealots hmm, better remove them then
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
wouldn't count on it
what would you change to improve upon the match up/ race?
Just rework adepts really, make them a core gateway unit but remove shade. Shade is the dumbest thing about them.
make them ranged zealots hmm, better remove them then
I'd propose an Adept hp nerf and Zealot hp buff
I do agree tho that the shade is a really shitty ability. I especially hate how you can be in mineral line A then send shades into mineral line B and the defender has to have 2 forces capable of beating the adepts because until they shade/cancel the shade these stupid fuckers are basically in 2 places at once
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★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 1?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On September 02 2016 19:00 Yello wrote: if Dear keeps attacking like that he'll throw the game right back to Byun Oo
That's just how Dear plays TvP. He plays nearly perfectly early on, gets far ahead, and then engages carelessly because he thinks he can't lose from the position he's in. And then he either derps and throws or he closes it out eventually but after losing way more than he needed to.
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
wouldn't count on it
what would you change to improve upon the match up/ race?
Just rework adepts really, make them a core gateway unit but remove shade. Shade is the dumbest thing about them.
make them ranged zealots hmm, better remove them then
I'd propose an Adept hp nerf and Zealot hp buff
I do agree tho that the shade is a really shitty ability. I especially hate how you can be in mineral line A then send shades into mineral line B and the defender has to have 2 forces capable of beating the adepts because until they shade/cancel the shade this stupid fuckers are basically in 2 places at once
But if they'd die faster that wouldn't be so much of a problem. Being slippery AND tanky is a really bad combination, one should be removed.
Another thing you'd remove with a hp nerf is the infuriating "let's shade on top of your army" nonsense
but removing the latter (shade) would also do that ofc
wow Cloak banshees in a matchup other than TvT. Didn't expect to see that in LotV also with the stargate already there I think we will see exactly why you don't go banshee
edit: I totally misjudged the robo timing. This is doing way too much damage Oo
They should give pylon 10 range more to make sure terran players can't drop into protoss base.We already know its not gonna work.This is not the first time...it happened everytime....but god damn it for some fucking reason terran players still do it and i think they know but they do it anyway....i.. just dont understand.....i don't know why... Pro players just refuse to learn from thier mistake.
On September 02 2016 18:50 Olli wrote: Oh and if Dear wins we also get a high profile PvP so people might just notice how dumb the matchup is, complain and Blizzard might do something
wouldn't count on it
what would you change to improve upon the match up/ race?
Just rework adepts really, make them a core gateway unit but remove shade. Shade is the dumbest thing about them.
make them ranged zealots hmm, better remove them then
I'd propose an Adept hp nerf and Zealot hp buff
I do agree tho that the shade is a really shitty ability. I especially hate how you can be in mineral line A then send shades into mineral line B and the defender has to have 2 forces capable of beating the adepts because until they shade/cancel the shade this stupid fuckers are basically in 2 places at once
But if they'd die faster that wouldn't be so much of a problem. Being slippery AND tanky is a really bad combination, one should be removed.
Another thing you'd remove with a hp nerf is the infuriating "let's shade on top of your army" nonsense
but removing the latter (shade) would also do that ofc
Well yes their "immortality" obviously makes matters a lot worse. I was only thinking about shade from a design perspective and in that case its utterly boring and so far never has led to interesting play (except for scouting with the shade but that doesnt leave me in awe after seeing it a million times). Also please dont forget how they used to 2shot workers and marines and lings lol
Edit: Artosis: "this is crazy". But actually theyre just even in workers now lol
6 workers dead and now byun is already behind in worker count lol. But he still has the banshee cloak tech something that is gonna do a lot for him over the course of the game (lol)
On September 02 2016 19:07 seemsgood wrote: They should give pylon 10 range more to make sure terran players can't drop into protoss base.We already know its not gonna work.This is not the first time...it happened everytime....but god damn it for some fucking reason terran players still do it and i think they know but they do it anyway....i.. just dont understand.....i don't know why... Pro players just refuse to learn from thier mistake.
well that one time the mothership core is out of position or you snipe it that one drop can easily win a game for terran. And if the Protoss is in position you can back off with the speed boost and not lose anything
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13%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 2?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On September 02 2016 19:07 seemsgood wrote: They should give pylon 10 range more to make sure terran players can't drop into protoss base.We already know its not gonna work.This is not the first time...it happened everytime....but god damn it for some fucking reason terran players still do it and i think they know but they do it anyway....i.. just dont understand.....i don't know why... Pro players just refuse to learn from thier mistake.
On September 02 2016 19:12 Yello wrote: this is reminiscent of the good old WoL days when the Terran answer to a Protoss going phoenix was "just go kill him" as Day9 said :D
It wouldn't have been that easy without the huge advantage from banshee wrecking lot of probes tho
On September 02 2016 19:07 seemsgood wrote: They should give pylon 10 range more to make sure terran players can't drop into protoss base.We already know its not gonna work.This is not the first time...it happened everytime....but god damn it for some fucking reason terran players still do it and i think they know but they do it anyway....i.. just dont understand.....i don't know why... Pro players just refuse to learn from thier mistake.
well that one time the mothership core is out of position or you snipe it that one drop can easily win a game for terran. And if the Protoss is in position you can back off with the speed boost and not lose anything
Yup but don't do it too early and of course they are playing like HOTS..... My ideal drop timing is when protoss has 4th or early widow mine bullshit.
On September 02 2016 19:07 seemsgood wrote: They should give pylon 10 range more to make sure terran players can't drop into protoss base.We already know its not gonna work.This is not the first time...it happened everytime....but god damn it for some fucking reason terran players still do it and i think they know but they do it anyway....i.. just dont understand.....i don't know why... Pro players just refuse to learn from thier mistake.
well that one time the mothership core is out of position or you snipe it that one drop can easily win a game for terran. And if the Protoss is in position you can back off with the speed boost and not lose anything
Yup but don't do it too early and of course they are playing like HOTS..... My ideal drop timing is when protoss has 4th or early widow mine bullshit.
On September 02 2016 19:07 seemsgood wrote: They should give pylon 10 range more to make sure terran players can't drop into protoss base.We already know its not gonna work.This is not the first time...it happened everytime....but god damn it for some fucking reason terran players still do it and i think they know but they do it anyway....i.. just dont understand.....i don't know why... Pro players just refuse to learn from thier mistake.
well that one time the mothership core is out of position or you snipe it that one drop can easily win a game for terran. And if the Protoss is in position you can back off with the speed boost and not lose anything
Yup but don't do it too early and of course they are playing like HOTS..... My ideal drop timing is when protoss has 4th or early widow mine bullshit.
It is a lot about builds, pylon placement and so on. One drop can end the game in seconds
On September 02 2016 19:34 Yello wrote: yay ghosts! Most terrans seem to forget that EMP to take of shields is actually really strong and they are more than just a counter to high templar
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★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
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31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 3?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
The manticore is a Persian legendary creature similar to the Egyptian sphinx. It has the body of a red lion, a human head with three rows of sharp teeth, sometimes bat-like wings, and a trumpet-like voice.
The manticore is a Persian legendary creature similar to the Egyptian sphinx. It has the body of a red lion, a human head with three rows of sharp teeth, sometimes bat-like wings, and a trumpet-like voice.
On September 02 2016 19:48 fealx wrote: adepts.......
The problems are not adepts, Byun didn't have anything at home, he could have warped in chargelots or any other units and get all his workers as well..
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
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★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
4%
68 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 4?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
4%
68 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 4?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Is it just me or wasnt that such a good game? At least not as good as Tastosis made it sound like. Dont get me wrong I love their casting but that was very easy to call early in the game :X
okay i think after that game we can definitely all agree that adepts need to be able to hit air units right? and maybe they should be cloaked while the shade is active. and photon overcharge should be active for 60 seconds like it used to be.
On September 02 2016 19:51 NarutO wrote: Is it just me or wasnt that such a good game? At least not as good as Tastosis made it sound like. Dont get me wrong I love their casting but that was very easy to call early in the game :X
It's very welcome to hype up micro plays like that. It makes the game very enjoyable. Think they did a great job casting that one!
On September 02 2016 19:50 Poopi wrote: ByuN is the best terran we have ever seen
i mean i've seen Maru micro like that but overall maybe. haven't seen such a high display of pure skill. Mvp obviously was a better tactician
His tactics were awesome on Dusk Towers, good decision making and stuff. Multitask / micro very on point and he is able to win games that should have been loss in spectacular fashion. I mean on LotV tho. If he wins this semi-finals and the semi finals he has surpassed TY for sure.
On September 02 2016 19:49 Ej_ wrote: nope, adepts are still pretty fucking good vs marauders
Yeah, running around not being in range, so good.
exactly. Every units have in build strength and weakness which are exploitable by both players which was shown by both player in that game, bitching about "adepts lulz" is not constructive. They may be too strong and spam too many shades, but I appreciate its core design to be honest.
On September 02 2016 19:49 Ej_ wrote: nope, adepts are still pretty fucking good vs marauders
Yeah, running around not being in range, so good.
exactly. Every units have in build strength and weakness which are exploitable by both players which was shown by both player in that game, bitching about "adepts lulz" is not constructive. They may be too strong and spam too many shades, but I appreciate its core design to be honest.
Shades don't seem to be a good design idea. It kills defender position by getting a shade surround. Blizz just has awful ideas for protoss to turn them into gimmicks
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
Didn't Dear just fuck up this game? It seems to me that he was quite far ahead after the oppening and lost because he refused to build anything but adept.
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
On September 02 2016 19:51 NarutO wrote: Is it just me or wasnt that such a good game? At least not as good as Tastosis made it sound like. Dont get me wrong I love their casting but that was very easy to call early in the game :X
Last season I was still okay. This season I can't stand their casting one bit. It sounds way too fake to me.
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
Didn't Dear just fuck up this game? It seems to me that he was quite far ahead after the oppening and lost because he refused to build anything but adept.
He was ahead but it's very hard to gauge if warping as many adepts as possible in the terran base will be enough to kill him economically, then defending the terran army with help of mo-core, because against most opponents Dear would have insta won. ByuN defended as perfectly as possible and abused the lack of anti-air as well as possible, multiple times. It's hard to train for such plays when you never encounter it in practice.
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
Neeb is very good indeed. The scariest protoss NA has ever had since HuK started to disappear. Not many people have beaten ByuN in online BoX while being foreigners. I don't think that he would beat him offline tho!
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
Well yeah, there's a double standard. Cause Koreans generally play on a different level than foreigners. As such, we don't hold them to the same... standard.
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
I don't do that
What about the original question, how reasonable is that, to assume someone is better than another based on an (online) game they played recently?
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
I mean, if the korean doesn't care about their online matches and wins anyways, then yea that's pretty good. As we've seen in the past, foreigners overperform online and then get rekt offline.
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
I don't do that
What about the original question, how reasonable is that, to assume someone is better than another based on an (online) game they played recently?
one series, offline or online, means literally nothing
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
I don't do that
What about the original question, how reasonable is that, to assume someone is better than another based on an (online) game they played recently?
one series, offline or online, means literally nothing
On September 02 2016 19:52 MiniFotToss wrote: how did byun lose to Neeb lol
Not actually caring/ playing his best
Or maybe Neeb is actually a good player ?
So you think he can beat this level of TvP?
I don't know I just think that saying Neeb won vs Byun because Byun didn't care seems a bit stretched, maybe Byun played worse (for whatever reason... of course GSL RO4 is super important so maybe today he's showing his best skills, or didn't want to show builds vs Neeb that Dear could study) but still credit to Neeb for the victory
yeah, whenever a Korean beats a foreigner online, it proves their dominance and is ultimate proof, but if a foreigner does the same, the Korean "didn't care" or something as ridiculous as that
I don't do that
What about the original question, how reasonable is that, to assume someone is better than another based on an (online) game they played recently?
one series, offline or online, means literally nothing
Is there ever any reason NOT to go DTs in TvP? Every time I see it in a pro game the toss gets a free 3rd on the back of a few DTs, even if they don't do a whole lot of harassment.
On September 02 2016 20:10 ihatevideogames wrote: Is there ever any reason NOT to go DTs in TvP? Every time I see it in a pro game the toss gets a free 3rd on the back of a few DTs, even if they don't do a whole lot of harassment.
On September 02 2016 20:10 ihatevideogames wrote: Is there ever any reason NOT to go DTs in TvP? Every time I see it in a pro game the toss gets a free 3rd on the back of a few DTs, even if they don't do a whole lot of harassment.
Taeja showed (Journey's) marauder build that rapes DTs, I believe in his game vs Zest.
On September 02 2016 20:12 coL.hendralisk wrote: Is dear right to think he's forced to attack constantly? It's like just gateway units and immortal or 2 vs stimmed bio and liberator/mine/tank
No, he plays PvT this way every game. Regardless of what's going on on the map.
On September 02 2016 20:12 coL.hendralisk wrote: Is dear right to think he's forced to attack constantly? It's like just gateway units and immortal or 2 vs stimmed bio and liberator/mine/tank
No, he plays PvT this way every game. Regardless of what's going on on the map.
Figured out from the beginning and not adapt(!)ing
On September 02 2016 20:13 gingerfluffmuff wrote: whats wrong with Dear today?
he's facing Byun
Who with just pretty good terran play is winning.
Makes you think.
this is more than just pretty good play by Byun. His macro was perfect in every single game, his micro was on point. His decision making was the only thing that wasn't quite perfect but still really good for most of the series
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0%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (2)
8%
26 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 5?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 6?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (5)
31%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
13%
★★★ - Good game (3)
19%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
19%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
19%
16 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 6?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 7?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
11%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
11%
★★★ - Good game (4)
22%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8)
44%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Byun vs Dear Game 7?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
The amazing ladder? Most Proleague players don't ladder much if at all during the season, many of the players on Korean GM are foreigners and amateurs. He also found no practice partners for his Ro8 match because all the KeSPA teams were practicing with his opponent instead.
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
chill mate and ride the anti foreigner train, standard precedure in LR
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
The amazing ladder? Most Proleague players don't ladder much if at all during the season, many of the players on Korean GM are foreigners and amateurs.
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
He's also been and trained on Korean teams
to imply these teams have nothing to do with the level of play in Korea is silly obv but Opisska is prob just trolling us
On September 02 2016 20:19 Inflicted wrote: inb4 KeSPA Cup just to deny ByuN
Byun would get to play in kespa cup after this though no?
That's Cross Finals. KeSPA's gonna host a Cup just to deny a non-KeSPA player from going to Blizzcon
I mean they have to rig it to exclude Byun. He's both a finalist and in the top 16 in points now.
Hey guys it s TV, do you know a show where the producers are like : "hey let's get rid of the most popular and friendly guy, it will certainly increase our viewership!"
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Yah, one finalist in 18 years, thats really the proof those "mythical team houses" are really good for nothing.
Hehe.
Plus, seeing how much friendship ByuN has from other progamers, I'm sure he had many quality partners to train with...
He said in an interview that some KeSPA players refused to trainwith him because he was teamless.
I even wonder how is it possible for him to still perform that good? I guess when your mechanics are that good, you just have to focus on how the match-ups should be played :o.
I think sOs is quite disappointed with this, I think he would have a much easier time in a PvP than in a PvT. Think it could be pretty even, some sneaky build wins from sOs, some solid army control into win from ByuN.
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Yah, one finalist in 18 years, thats really the proof those "mythical team houses" are really good for nothing.
Hehe.
Plus, seeing how much friendship ByuN has from other progamers, I'm sure he had many quality partners to train with...
He said in an interview that some KeSPA players refused to trainwith him because he was teamless.
I even wonder how is it possible for him to still perform that good? I guess when your mechanics are that good, you just have to focus on how the match-ups should be played :o.
Maybe he plays archon mode vs 2 B-teamers to train his multitasking/anti harass skills?
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
The amazing ladder? Most Proleague players don't ladder much if at all during the season, many of the players on Korean GM are foreigners and amateurs.
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
He's also been and trained on Korean teams
to imply these teams have nothing to do with the level of play in Korea is silly obv but Opisska is prob just trolling us
By the time foreigners would have caught up if they practiced as hard as Koreans.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Nah, they will never stop complaining. they even have special meetings with blizz for it
He lives in Korea, which means he has access to the amazing ladder and he has tons of great players to practice with. Don't care about foreigners not performing but can't stand people making poor arguments
He's also been and trained on Korean teams
to imply these teams have nothing to do with the level of play in Korea is silly obv but Opisska is prob just trolling us
By the time foreigners would have caught up if they practiced as hard as Koreans.
I miss the days foreigners went to and competed in Korea
I get they don't cuz of financial reasons.. :/ I'm a nostalgic
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
he should try being more impressive
2017: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments and looks impressive, but he's Protoss, so thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Yah, one finalist in 18 years, thats really the proof those "mythical team houses" are really good for nothing.
Hehe.
Plus, seeing how much friendship ByuN has from other progamers, I'm sure he had many quality partners to train with...
He said in an interview that some KeSPA players refused to trainwith him because he was teamless.
I even wonder how is it possible for him to still perform that good? I guess when your mechanics are that good, you just have to focus on how the match-ups should be played :o.
Decline theory would say that it's because the scene is weaker as a whole, but that's probably BS.
Truth is Taeja already proved that you can win without a team environment by only laddering from home.
Last, the real question was a few month ago how was it possible that someone as talented as ByuN didn't delivered in sc2 yet. Even when he had totally disappeared, you had people asking "when is ByuN coming ba" every week.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
I also think it's notable that the terran has to micro extremely well to defeat adepts, but you can see it's possible to defeat Protoss with build risks, unpredictable use of widow mines, and perfect dropship micro.
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Yah, one finalist in 18 years, thats really the proof those "mythical team houses" are really good for nothing.
Hehe.
Plus, seeing how much friendship ByuN has from other progamers, I'm sure he had many quality partners to train with...
He said in an interview that some KeSPA players refused to trainwith him because he was teamless.
I even wonder how is it possible for him to still perform that good? I guess when your mechanics are that good, you just have to focus on how the match-ups should be played :o.
Decline theory would say that it's because the scene is weaker as a whole, but that's probably BS.
Truth is Taeja already proved that you can win without a team environment by only laddering from home.
Last, the real question was a few month ago how was it possible that someone as talented as ByuN didn't delivered in sc2 yet. Even when he had totally disappeared, you had people asking "when is ByuN coming ba" every week.
Even though it has declined a bit, it's still super impressive to see someone with a GSL Code S t-shirt beat a guy with "Galaxy S7" and "Galaxy S7 Edge" printed on his t-shirt.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
he should try being more impressive
He is impressive and younger than sOs, Dear, Classic and Zest. He's not finished yet...
On September 02 2016 20:21 opisska wrote: So now we stop hearing excuses from foreigners that you need the mythical korean team house to be good?
Yah, one finalist in 18 years, thats really the proof those "mythical team houses" are really good for nothing.
Hehe.
Plus, seeing how much friendship ByuN has from other progamers, I'm sure he had many quality partners to train with...
He said in an interview that some KeSPA players refused to trainwith him because he was teamless.
I even wonder how is it possible for him to still perform that good? I guess when your mechanics are that good, you just have to focus on how the match-ups should be played :o.
Decline theory would say that it's because the scene is weaker as a whole, but that's probably BS.
Truth is Taeja already proved that you can win without a team environment by only laddering from home.
Last, the real question was a few month ago how was it possible that someone as talented as ByuN didn't delivered in sc2 yet. Even when he had totally disappeared, you had people asking "when is ByuN coming ba" every week.
Even though it has declined a bit, it's still super impressive to see someone with a GSL Code S t-shirt beat a guy with "Galaxy S7" and "Galaxy S7 Edge" printed on his t-shirt.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
He also seems like a realy nice guy but he just always manage to make it look like he win by accident.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
??? he's just the fresh new boy trying to beat the old guys, why hate him?
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
??? he's just the fresh new boy trying to beat the old guys, why hate him?
I wonder, if Solar doesn't get any more WCS points, does he have to play a tiebreaker against Stats? They're tied for points but their seed in the WCS Korea rankings is supposed to determine their group at Blizzcon. Being 3rd or 4th could end up being a big deal.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
??? he's just the fresh new boy trying to beat the old guys, why hate him?
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
??? he's just the fresh new boy trying to beat the old guys, why hate him?
He helped ruin my liquibets
KT did most of that tho
And you ruined everyone else's Liquibets.
I did
You see me apologize often but I don't really mean it
On September 02 2016 20:44 RKC wrote: Hasn't Rain proven that one could win team-less?
(Team-less here being outside Korean team-house, since foreigner teams don't really count )
He still had easy access to high level practice partners and spent a lot of time in the KT house. When he won GSL his main practice partners for Terran were Fantasy and Flash and his main practice partner for Zerg was Solar.
On September 02 2016 20:27 Inflicted wrote: Also, RIP Patience's Blizzcon
Oh god nooooooo
Maybe he can have an unimpressive yet surprisingly deep run at Kespa cup.
2014-2015: "Patience only farms easy foreign tournaments and never even wins any, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon" 2016: "Patience makes deep runs in Korean tournaments but even when he wins he's never impressive, thank god he doesn't make Blizzcon"
Patience just can't do it right.
You cant deny that it is very easy to hate the guy, poor Patience
??? he's just the fresh new boy trying to beat the old guys, why hate him?
He helped ruin my liquibets
KT did most of that tho
And you ruined everyone else's Liquibets.
I did
You see me apologize often but I don't really mean it
On September 02 2016 20:44 RKC wrote: Hasn't Rain proven that one could win team-less?
(Team-less here being outside Korean team-house, since foreigner teams don't really count )
He still had easy access to high level practice partners and spent a lot of time in the KT house.
He did? Wow seems like Flash love > SKT love!
I remember one time Flash was streaming and Rain, Zest and TY just pulled up chairs behind him to watch. And then they started distracting him until he lost.
On September 02 2016 20:44 RKC wrote: Hasn't Rain proven that one could win team-less?
(Team-less here being outside Korean team-house, since foreigner teams don't really count )
He still had easy access to high level practice partners and spent a lot of time in the KT house.
He did? Wow seems like Flash love > SKT love!
I remember one time Flash was streaming and Rain, Zest and TY just pulled up chairs behind him to watch. And then they started distracting him until he lost.
It's because they are friends.
Do you have a source for Rain telling he's practicing with KT players and Solar? I don't remind any interview about him telling this~
On September 02 2016 20:50 Penev wrote: Being able to perform while not being in a (KeSPA) team house probably differs from person to person
I always thought HerO could do much better if in a strict training regiment while Taeja would probably do worse just looking at the Liquid guys alone
But all of these guys were brought up in the Korean system, it's like riding a bike, you don't unlearn it
Yeah, I feel so too. Motivational drives and practice habits differ from individuals. Hence Byun is evidence that one can even succeed without a Korean team-house (though it probably works for >50% players). Hence why I don't quite buy the arguments in the uThermal thread that Koreans have an insurmountable advantage due to the team-house infrastructure.
Reminds me of the story about Bisu going to Thailand before the MSL finals versus Savior - was that really true?
On September 02 2016 20:44 RKC wrote: Hasn't Rain proven that one could win team-less?
(Team-less here being outside Korean team-house, since foreigner teams don't really count )
He still had easy access to high level practice partners and spent a lot of time in the KT house.
He did? Wow seems like Flash love > SKT love!
I remember one time Flash was streaming and Rain, Zest and TY just pulled up chairs behind him to watch. And then they started distracting him until he lost.
It's because they are friends.
Do you have a source for Rain telling he's practicing with KT players and Solar? I don't remind any interview about him telling this~
IIRC after he beat Maru in his GSL winning run he said to Gyuri he was practicing for the match with Flash and Fantasy and that they had handled his builds much better (I think that's when it was, not sure). And the season afterwards, in the Ro16 group selection Stork told Rain to do Solar a favor and make the switch he wanted because Solar helped him win the GSL finals.
On September 02 2016 20:50 Penev wrote: Being able to perform while not being in a (KeSPA) team house probably differs from person to person
I always thought HerO could do much better if in a strict training regiment while Taeja would probably do worse just looking at the Liquid guys alone
But all of these guys were brought up in the Korean system, it's like riding a bike, you don't unlearn it
Yeah I agree it depends on the players. I think some guys need to get told to practice their asses off so they actually do something with themselves, and when they leave they get kinda lazy and fall off. And others need their freedom to do their best.
And then there's PartinG. Who looked amazing on his Proleague team, then looked like his shackles came off after he joined a foreign team, and is now gone completely. Pretty much.
On September 02 2016 20:50 Penev wrote: Being able to perform while not being in a (KeSPA) team house probably differs from person to person
I always thought HerO could do much better if in a strict training regiment while Taeja would probably do worse just looking at the Liquid guys alone
But all of these guys were brought up in the Korean system, it's like riding a bike, you don't unlearn it
Yeah that was the fallacy back then. Whenever you have a system that is adhered to by the successful it is automatically linked to the success until proven otherwise. Plus toughness often has a strong appeal to viewers storywise.
On September 02 2016 20:50 Penev wrote: Being able to perform while not being in a (KeSPA) team house probably differs from person to person
I always thought HerO could do much better if in a strict training regiment while Taeja would probably do worse just looking at the Liquid guys alone
But all of these guys were brought up in the Korean system, it's like riding a bike, you don't unlearn it
Yeah, I feel so too. Motivational drives and practice habits differ from individuals. Hence Byun is evidence that one can even succeed without a Korean team-house (though it probably works for >50% players). Hence why I don't quite buy the arguments in the uThermal thread that Koreans have an insurmountable advantage due to the team-house infrastructure.
Reminds me of the story about Bisu going to Thailand before the MSL finals versus Savior - was that really true?
The advantage Koreans have is the know how that came from 2 decades of an organized professional approach to esports
If you watch K1 kick boxing you'll notice almost all the champions either are Dutch or train(ed) in the Netherlands. This is because someone started a school decades ago, became successful, prompted other schools to be founded etc. It just has to happen somewhere and this one happened in Korea. It does help Korea has a bit of an overachievement culture as well but it's not necessary
On September 02 2016 21:18 Shellshock wrote: what a pleasant surprise to wake up to. thought for sure byun as going to choke today but glad to be wrong
Dear is much more likely to derp than it is for Byun to choke
On September 02 2016 21:18 Shellshock wrote: what a pleasant surprise to wake up to. thought for sure byun as going to choke today but glad to be wrong
Dear is much more likely to derp than it is for Byun to choke
But seriously, Byun played well
Also Penev bet on Dear so poor Dear never had a chance.
On September 02 2016 21:18 Shellshock wrote: what a pleasant surprise to wake up to. thought for sure byun as going to choke today but glad to be wrong
Dear is much more likely to derp than it is for Byun to choke
But seriously, Byun played well
Also Penev bet on Dear so poor Dear never had a chance.
This is true
It sounds like the Shellbot is immune to my powers tho
Hmm, if he was sure of the choke he really isn't now I think of it
One more thing after thinking about the games is that many of byun's good drop play came when there weren't any (or only 1) pylon nearby for dear to overcharge. Staying out of range of PO is so crucial to do any damage with your harass.
In gmae 1 he did choose a bad time to drop, but the issue with new gettysburg in tvp is that you can really only do harass damage to the main (it is so inefficient to try and harass the expos) and so dear could just stockpile a bunch of pylons in the main and the drop did almost no damage. He would've lost the game even if dear didn't attack him at that moment. The drop would've done nothing and then dear would be like "lolz he just threw away 3 medivacs for nothing guess I can kill him now".
King sejong station had no drop play (it was cloaked banshees and then he just pushed and won) but it is a much better map for drop play because the main is very wide open. The nat can be hard to do damage if the toss is paying attention (usually you come behind the minerals so they'll have pylons there already) but the main is too wide open to cover with pylons (tosses have to build their early pylons by their mineral lines so they don't instantly lose to a liberator rush) and you can safely drop your bio out of range of a PO, sometimes out of sight. That's probably why stargate openings seem to be so popular on KSS, because you need to be able to chase down the medivacs and stop the harass (blink stalkers can stop the harass too but it's hard to harass with blink stalkers unless you're going striaght up for a timing attack). It's also why I think the banshee opening was so good. Rushing stargate does allow you to make oracles, but oracles can't attack air and you can tag a banshee, but the 2nd banshee can be really hard to stop without making a second oracle. And if you open phoenix first then your detection is delayed further. If the harass does enough damage then you have a good timing to kill the toss if he makes a 3rd, since stargate tech isn't that good at killing marines (if the toss instead stays on 2 base for awhile you can bunker up and turtle, you have the better tech).
Dusk towers is similar to new gettysburg; it's very hard to deal damage to tosses because the nat and 3rd are very close together, and there's not a lot of space in the main to sneak a drop in, as putting a few pylons by the mineral line can also reach almost everywhere that the terran can drop the bio. Usually it's a battle of killing the 4th over and over and starving the toss out.
And we saw what happened on frozen temple. The nat can be hard to do damage to, but if you can get to the 3rd early before pylons are up and the toss doesn't open with stargate or blink, you can bounce between the main and nat, because the main is fairly large and it's difficult to cover the entire main with pylons. He kept sniping pylons at the 3rd so dear could never PO and then stayed out of range of any pylons in the main.
Frost is hard to say because the spawn positions do affect how the matchup plays out slightly as well as which base the toss takes for his 3rd. If the toss takes the 3rd in the middle of the map it looks like going tanks is correct as the ledges are really good for tankivac. I think if dear instead took the 3rd at the top (with the higher ground ledge nearby). I think byun would have tried more drop play and bounce between the 3rd and main again. Byun did kind of win that game because of the lucky widow mine taking out the warp prism, as well as dear taking a bad engagement under liberation zones.
The other thing that interested me about Byun was his bio composition. he seemed to be more marauder heavy than your usual terrans. Adepts don't do any damage to marauders (even though marauders don't do much damage to adepts in return) but you can wipe out stalkers really easily, and you can also focus down immortals if you have enough. Going marauder heavy and killing most of the stalkers also means that liberators get free reign too, though he never really made more than 3-4 other than the dusk tower game since that one went long. He also made a good number of widow mines every game, moreso than other terrans I've seen. If you can snipe the observer in the fight, the widow mines basically force the toss to retreat. The only game he was more marine heavy IIRC was the king sejong station game where dear committed to a lot of phoenixes so he just massed marines. I always thought that terrans should try more marauder-heavy compositions because marines die so damn quickly to adepts, but I thought that the marauders' low DPS to adepts would make the build not work. Looks like it might have some merit if you focus down all the non-adept stuff on the ground first (you saw multiple times where he just ran past the adepts to snipe stuff down because adept DPS to marauder is also really bad).
Of course behind his impeccable micro he also macro'd like a god, so this is no way as easy as it sounds. We'll also see if sos can find any holes in byun's builds. sos is definitely very tricky and smart. Byun didn't really scout dear a whole lot, it seems like he just knew what dear was gonna do. sos is unpredictable though so we'll see what happens.
Can anyone explain why I keep hearing and reading Byun has to win this season to go to Blizzcon? Isnt he save in #6 spot with only SoS beeing able to move ahead of him? I must be missing something.
On September 03 2016 01:09 loko822 wrote: Can anyone explain why I keep hearing and reading Byun has to win this season to go to Blizzcon? Isnt he save in #6 spot with only SoS beeing able to move ahead of him? I must be missing something.
Conflicting feelings. Happy ByuN made the final. But now I have to cheer against him because A. I want sOs at Blizzcon and B. Still salty that ByuN knocked out Ryung
I literally cannot believe Byun was able to elevate his play to that level and sustain it with how nervous he gets. Unbelievable performance, so goddamn happy for him this win literally made my week. Dear played pretty damn well too, I find it hard to criticize his performance for the most part, Byun played almost perfectly in the final 4 games. His macro was almost perfect, he attacked at all the right times, and of course his micro was just unfair-levels of strong.
Would be a dream come true for him to win the GSL. I might cry tears of joy XD
EPT![[image loading]](http://bigbadesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/GSL-Code-S-e1456246229324.jpg)
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AfreecaTV Korea | 
TwitchTV ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CMU99oi.png)
Tasteless | ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xo97b.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/951.jpg)
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ByuN vs 
Dear![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jgmCp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Joub3.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H5LzV.png)
I just hope for some good games, yesterday's games weren't the best display.
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