Open Qualifier Tuesday, Sep 30 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Day 1 Wednesday, Oct 08 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Day 2 Thursday, Oct 09 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Day 3 (and final) Friday, Oct 10 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
The Foreign Hope is a 6 player, community driven tournament with the aim of finding the best foreigner in the world. With 4 players coming from a community vote, 2 from an open bracket and a minimum prize pool of $2000 (increase from donations and indiegogo).
The open bracket has a maximum of 1024 players, limited to Masters of above Non-Korean players. The qualifier will take place on the EU Server. The top two players from the qualifier will earn their spot in The Foreign Hope!
Round 1024 to 256 will be BO1. Round 256 to QF will be BO3 SF will be BO5
The voting poll was selected by the top 21 (most I can put in the poll) Non-Korean players in the WCS Global Ranking as of 17th Aug 2014. Voting Closed Sunday, Aug 31 9:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Invites will be given to the top 4 in the vote, then if declined offered to 5th,6th etc. I will update this post when invited players have accepted!
THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE COMMUNITY - so I am going to let you all vote on the format of the tournament. There are two options, each with benefits and drawbacks that I have detailed below.
Both options will run over 3 days
Option 1: Massive round-robin group with all 6 players
Pros: Everyone plays everyone = no denying who is the best.
Cons: Someone could win before the final game based on scores. A tie would have to be resolved with either map score or head to head (both have critics).
Option 2: Two round robin groups of 3 with 2 advancing. Day 3 would be an elimination bracket!
Pros: There would be a grand finals, potentially meaning more hype!
Cons: Not everyone would play everyone, meaning people could argue the "best" player didn't win?
Poll: What format would you like the tournament to use?
6 players in large round robin group (369)
88%
2 groups of 3 into elimination bracket (48)
12%
417 total votes
Your vote: What format would you like the tournament to use?
(Vote): 6 players in large round robin group (Vote): 2 groups of 3 into elimination bracket
The prize pool started at $2000. This is from a combination of money I have put in myself from my twitch channel subs and donations as well as 2 current sponsors. If you would like to see this prize pool raised - here is how!
As donations from my channel go towards putting on more events - from now until the event goes live ALL donations I receive will go to increasing the prize pool (stops 30th Sept - futher contributions go towards future events). I will also keep below a list of all the people who contribute more than $50, in order of how much they have contributed. If you would like to be on this list - leave a note on the donation paypal link with the name you want!
I'm not a saint and do need to eat / get paid for the amount of time I put into this event. Donations go towards the event prize pool, but I will be taking the ad revenue I generate from the event to pay myself and any other casters I get involved. If I am able to secure sponsorship from companies / anyone specifically donates to me (and they say that in the donation) then I will make some more from that
I think you should use pollcode or strawpoll or some other site that allows you to pick more than one option. That would make it a little bit less difficult to choose and also would probably give the slightly less popular foreigners a better chance.
On August 18 2014 02:31 mikumegurine wrote: so the poll is a popularity poll and not determine who is the best foreigner ok
cause only the #1 spot is accurate, and this poll isnt accurate beyond #1
for example, all the people who vote Snute, might have a different 2nd and 3rd place in mind, but they can only vote once for #1
Well... its just a vote to get into the tourney, they would still have to win to be determined best foreigner. Since madals wants more viewers a popularity vote is perfect. If the foreigner hope doesnt get voted they should have no problem qualifying. If they can't qualify then maybe they aren't the foreigner hope ;D
On August 18 2014 02:31 mikumegurine wrote: so the poll is a popularity poll and not determine who is the best foreigner ok
cause only the #1 spot is accurate, and this poll isnt accurate beyond #1
for example, all the people who vote Snute, might have a different 2nd and 3rd place in mind, but they can only vote once for #1
Well... its just a vote to get into the tourney, they would still have to win to be determined best foreigner. Since madals wants more viewers a popularity vote is perfect. If the foreigner hope doesnt get voted they should have no problem qualifying. If they can't qualify then maybe they aren't the foreigner hope ;D
yea but this poll only shows the #1 most popular foreigner, its not accurate beyond that
for example
100 people vote, 94 of them think Snute is the best foreigner and want him invited, 3 people are a big fan of Ian, 2 people are big fans of Xigua, 1 person is a huge fan of Huk
so 94 people vote Snute, 3 person votes Ian, 2 person vote Xigua, 1 person votes HuK
Poll looks like this:
#1 Snute #2 Ian #3 Xigua #4 HuK #5 Everyone else
Does this mean Snute Ian Xigua and Huk are the 4 most popular foreigners, and should be given free trip to the tournament?
Does this mean Ian is the second most popular player in the minds of these 100 people? nope, because all the 94 people who voted for Snute, probably have a different #2 but they cant revote for any other spot besides #1
Alot of those 94 people maybe want #1 Snute, #2 Scarlett, #3 Bunny, but guess what? they can only vote once for #1 Snute, and cant vote for #2, #3 etc
Great stuff, thanks for putting this up madals! Although I agree with the critiscm regarding the voting system, a 4 choice poll would probably be better.
I feel like Snute, Scarlett, Major, Bunny, and Sen are top 5 for sure. I guess either Vortix or Welmu after that (personally I think Vortix). Or add Stephano because legacy.
I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
There is no clear top 4, I guess around 12 spots would be needed to contain all the serious contenders - both those who have been playing great in recent tournaments (like Bunny, HuK) and those on consistent, very good level for long time (like Nerchio, Vortix).
On August 18 2014 04:27 stardog wrote: There is no clear top 4, I guess around 12 spots would be needed to contain all the serious contenders - both those who have been playing great in recent tournaments (like Bunny, HuK) and those on consistent, very good level for long time (like Nerchio, Vortix).
HuK advances to Ro16 ONCE and has been doing great lately. vortix does it every season without exception. its absolutly clear who is the better player.
€: Mana more votes than vortix. no offense to Mana, but Vortix would probably 5-0 him in a best of 9.
On August 18 2014 04:15 FilthyRake wrote: Yeah HuK got my vote - he has been showing super well lately, and I'm hoping maybe he's back in form :D
he lost several times to mediocre players, too though in qualifiers and stuff. wouldnt happen to vortix. guy doenst lose against non koreans. ever.
you're quite right, but I personally dont *like* vortix :D so I wont vote for him. (I also dont expect HuK to get enough votes to make it in anyway, so why not vote for who I want?)
On August 18 2014 04:15 FilthyRake wrote: Yeah HuK got my vote - he has been showing super well lately, and I'm hoping maybe he's back in form :D
he lost several times to mediocre players, too though in qualifiers and stuff. wouldnt happen to vortix. guy doenst lose against non koreans. ever.
Well then voting for him wouldn't matter given your previous post and the fact that he could smash through the open bracket given your logic.
His ZvZ is good, but I'm skeptical of his other matchups, tbh.
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
That's not exactly the strongest lineup for each race. I mean, really? Beating Revenge, MorroW and Patience (and even MMA during his slump) isn't exactly HUGE. He is 5-4 vs Patience, and 0-3 vs Dayshi. Idk man...
Noted all the feedback on the poll having 4 options - unfortunately this isn't something that I could do easily without using another website. That would make it hard to display within TL - it also means you can only vote for your favorite player
To the people saying a vote isn't skill, the 20 players were picked as they are the top 20 non-korean players in the 2014 global WCS rankings. There is also going to be an open bracket for the final 2 spots
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
That's not exactly the strongest lineup for each race. I mean, really? Beating Revenge, MorroW and Patience (and even MMA during his slump) isn't exactly HUGE. He is 5-4 vs Patience, and 0-3 vs Dayshi. Idk man...
that wasnt in MMA's slump. MMA is a slump right now, too?
and the list of players is far more impressive than the list of any other foreigner lately besides snute and scarlett and MAYBE major cuz he beat polt a lot. by far.
Scarlett was already winning by such a comfortable margin that I voted for Major, because he's not getting enough credit, and because Dayshi's too far behind in the rankings for my vote to matter much.
On August 18 2014 05:49 Faefae wrote: Wow Vortix has actually so few votes.... That's a bit sad he's clearly top 4. Too bad we only see him in WCS EU + some DH
It's time to launch the Millenium community machine.
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
That's not exactly the strongest lineup for each race. I mean, really? Beating Revenge, MorroW and Patience (and even MMA during his slump) isn't exactly HUGE. He is 5-4 vs Patience, and 0-3 vs Dayshi. Idk man...
that wasnt in MMA's slump. MMA is a slump right now, too?
and the list of players is far more impressive than the list of any other foreigner lately besides snute and scarlett and MAYBE major cuz he beat polt a lot. by far.
Bunny's last 2-4 months (what I consider the best couple months out of any foreigner in a long time):
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
That's not exactly the strongest lineup for each race. I mean, really? Beating Revenge, MorroW and Patience (and even MMA during his slump) isn't exactly HUGE. He is 5-4 vs Patience, and 0-3 vs Dayshi. Idk man...
that wasnt in MMA's slump. MMA is a slump right now, too?
and the list of players is far more impressive than the list of any other foreigner lately besides snute and scarlett and MAYBE major cuz he beat polt a lot. by far.
Bunny's last 2-4 months (what I consider the best couple months out of any foreigner in a long time):
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
That's not exactly the strongest lineup for each race. I mean, really? Beating Revenge, MorroW and Patience (and even MMA during his slump) isn't exactly HUGE. He is 5-4 vs Patience, and 0-3 vs Dayshi. Idk man...
that wasnt in MMA's slump. MMA is a slump right now, too?
and the list of players is far more impressive than the list of any other foreigner lately besides snute and scarlett and MAYBE major cuz he beat polt a lot. by far.
Bunny's last 2-4 months (what I consider the best couple months out of any foreigner in a long time):
last ZvT matches versus very good opponents (last 4 months) 2-1 vs MMA 3-2 vs jjakji 2-0 vs MMA 2-0 vs Mvp 0-3 vs jjakji 2-1 vs Revenge 2-1 vs MorroW 2-1 vs Happy 1-0 vs jjakji 0-1 vs Kas 0-1 vs Dayshi 2-1 vs ForGG 0-2 vs Dayshi 1-2 vs MMA --> 19-16
ZvP 3-1 vs Stardust 0-1 vs HerO 1-0 vs MacSed 0-1 vs MacSed 2-1 vs MC 2-0 vs JYP 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs Harstem 1-2 vs Patience 2-1 vs Patience 2-0 vs MaNa 0-2 vs MC (2-0 vs NightEnD) --> 19(17)-10
That's not exactly the strongest lineup for each race. I mean, really? Beating Revenge, MorroW and Patience (and even MMA during his slump) isn't exactly HUGE. He is 5-4 vs Patience, and 0-3 vs Dayshi. Idk man...
that wasnt in MMA's slump. MMA is a slump right now, too?
and the list of players is far more impressive than the list of any other foreigner lately besides snute and scarlett and MAYBE major cuz he beat polt a lot. by far.
Bunny's last 2-4 months (what I consider the best couple months out of any foreigner in a long time):
"Four players from community vote + 2 players from open brackets" =/= "The 6 best foreign players" lol
I'm looking forward to a foreigner tournament, but let's not call it the best six if only two of them are based on qualifiers and the rest are based on invitations and popularity, especially when half the poll is clearly not the cream of the foreign crop.
On August 18 2014 04:27 stardog wrote: There is no clear top 4, I guess around 12 spots would be needed to contain all the serious contenders - both those who have been playing great in recent tournaments (like Bunny, HuK) and those on consistent, very good level for long time (like Nerchio, Vortix).
HuK advances to Ro16 ONCE and has been doing great lately. vortix does it every season without exception. its absolutly clear who is the better player.
You know...I'm not a fan of Huk, I consider Vortix to be a better player, but I don't really like your analogy since WCS America is much, much harder than WCS Europe.
Acting like Ro16 WCS Europe and Ro16 WCS America are comparable is like claiming that BlinG is on an equal level to Scarlett, since they've both made Ro16 once this year.
(If anything, WCS EU Ro8 is probably similar to WCS AM Ro16. WCS AM does have about twice as many koreans as WCS EU; to make it to WCS AM Ro16 you almost always have to either be korean or beat a korean. WCS EU isn't like that until Ro8).
On August 18 2014 04:27 stardog wrote: There is no clear top 4, I guess around 12 spots would be needed to contain all the serious contenders - both those who have been playing great in recent tournaments (like Bunny, HuK) and those on consistent, very good level for long time (like Nerchio, Vortix).
HuK advances to Ro16 ONCE and has been doing great lately. vortix does it every season without exception. its absolutly clear who is the better player.
You know...I'm not a fan of Huk, I consider Vortix to be a better player, but I don't really like your analogy since WCS America is much, much harder than WCS Europe.
Acting like Ro16 WCS Europe and Ro16 WCS America are comparable is like claiming that BlinG is on an equal level to Scarlett, since they've both made Ro16 once this year.
(If anything, WCS EU Ro8 is probably similar to WCS AM Ro16. WCS AM does have about twice as many koreans as WCS EU; to make it to WCS AM Ro16 you almost always have to either be korean or beat a korean. WCS EU isn't like that until Ro8).
Fun fact, Bling actually beat Scarlett last time they played. And that's not a fair comparison because Scarlett has had poor WCS performance all year.
On August 18 2014 04:27 stardog wrote: There is no clear top 4, I guess around 12 spots would be needed to contain all the serious contenders - both those who have been playing great in recent tournaments (like Bunny, HuK) and those on consistent, very good level for long time (like Nerchio, Vortix).
HuK advances to Ro16 ONCE and has been doing great lately. vortix does it every season without exception. its absolutly clear who is the better player.
You know...I'm not a fan of Huk, I consider Vortix to be a better player, but I don't really like your analogy since WCS America is much, much harder than WCS Europe.
Acting like Ro16 WCS Europe and Ro16 WCS America are comparable is like claiming that BlinG is on an equal level to Scarlett, since they've both made Ro16 once this year.
(If anything, WCS EU Ro8 is probably similar to WCS AM Ro16. WCS AM does have about twice as many koreans as WCS EU; to make it to WCS AM Ro16 you almost always have to either be korean or beat a korean. WCS EU isn't like that until Ro8).
You are nitpicking results.You could also say, that Guitarcheese, Illusion and Arium made it to WCS NA premier, while DH champion Sacsri, TargA, Mvp and Stephano dropped out of EU challenger.
Edit: Also, just to make KalWarkov happy (and because he deserves it), I voted for Vortix.
SC2 is turning ever more into a popularity contest with all those invite heavy tournaments.
So true. Invite tournaments always felt awkward to me and now it seems we have mostly these. Of course it would be not realistic to expect one man organized tournaments to have qualifiers, but it's still less appealing for me to watch them. :<
SC2 is turning ever more into a popularity contest with all those invite heavy tournaments.
So true. Invite tournaments always felt awkward to me and now it seems we have mostly these. Of course it would be not realistic to expect one man organized tournaments to have qualifiers, but it's still less appealing for me to watch them. :<
Why would you need to have dedicated qualifiers for a tournament? You can just say that you invite the next three winners of the Zotac cup and the next three winners of the Go4Sc2 Wednesday cups.
honestly I think with the randomness of a draw, unless you make it like a best of 5 round robin featuring the top 30 players (as determined by what anyway?), which would be an absurd amount of games, you probably get more precise results with this type of poll.
I mean, so far top 3 is scarlett snute bunny, and it seems likely that all these get a spot. Scarlett and Snute have been the best two foreigners for some time, and bunny has arguably the most impressive recent performance out of anyone. And then the 4th spot is like, welmu major and nerchio, all players who are at least pretty close to the 4th spot, and then there's a qualifier where sen or vortix or whomever feels like they are unjustly left out can prove their worth and get a spot. (assuming you think that a qualifier would yield correct results in the first place, then certainly any player you think deserves to make it will end up qualifying. )
Having open qualifiers is a good way of making unknown talent get some spotlight. But it is not a good way of ensuring that the best players end up playing.
On August 18 2014 08:51 HoMM wrote: I'm a huge Scarlett fan, but it looks like Bunny really needs the support so my vote goes for him right now!
if welmu gets in over bunny it will be a goddamn tragedy.
I guess some people like the story of an university student fighting an illness and consistently doing well in the WCS for a good while.
Well, hopefully both will get in to the tournament eventually.
I did not know he had an illness... now I kind of feel bad.
It's related to his stomach. (Crohn's disease?) I can't even count how many events he has had to cancel his participation due it. Lately Homestory cup and several DH. Also he couldnt practice for 1 week just before 2013 season2 or 3 season finals. related:
Also, if you use or like Aligulac you must vote Welmu , that way you support sponsors
On August 18 2014 19:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: honestly I think with the randomness of a draw, unless you make it like a best of 5 round robin featuring the top 30 players (as determined by what anyway?), which would be an absurd amount of games, you probably get more precise results with this type of poll.
I mean, so far top 3 is scarlett snute bunny, and it seems likely that all these get a spot. Scarlett and Snute have been the best two foreigners for some time, and bunny has arguably the most impressive recent performance out of anyone. And then the 4th spot is like, welmu major and nerchio, all players who are at least pretty close to the 4th spot, and then there's a qualifier where sen or vortix or whomever feels like they are unjustly left out can prove their worth and get a spot. (assuming you think that a qualifier would yield correct results in the first place, then certainly any player you think deserves to make it will end up qualifying. )
Having open qualifiers is a good way of making unknown talent get some spotlight. But it is not a good way of ensuring that the best players end up playing.
So because the voted players coincide with your personal opinion that means that are more or less right? Sorry, but the idea that a poll can provide something even remotely related to "precise results", or "more precise" than something objective like real play is nonsense. He could very much forget about the poll and pick the four foreigners with more followers in twitter and save us the show.
Besides, there are lot of objective metrics to choose the players, even if arbitrary, like aligulac, wcs points, top4, top8 finishes, whatever. But a poll? C'mon.
On August 18 2014 08:51 HoMM wrote: I'm a huge Scarlett fan, but it looks like Bunny really needs the support so my vote goes for him right now!
if welmu gets in over bunny it will be a goddamn tragedy.
I guess some people like the story of an university student fighting an illness and consistently doing well in the WCS for a good while.
Well, hopefully both will get in to the tournament eventually.
I did not know he had an illness... now I kind of feel bad.
It's related to his stomach. (Crohn's disease?) I can't even count how many events he has had to cancel his participation due it. Lately Homestory cup and several DH. Also he couldnt practice for 1 week just before 2013 season2 or 3 season finals. related: https://twitter.com/NrSWelmu/status/377768351579140096
On August 18 2014 19:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: honestly I think with the randomness of a draw, unless you make it like a best of 5 round robin featuring the top 30 players (as determined by what anyway?), which would be an absurd amount of games, you probably get more precise results with this type of poll.
I mean, so far top 3 is scarlett snute bunny, and it seems likely that all these get a spot. Scarlett and Snute have been the best two foreigners for some time, and bunny has arguably the most impressive recent performance out of anyone. And then the 4th spot is like, welmu major and nerchio, all players who are at least pretty close to the 4th spot, and then there's a qualifier where sen or vortix or whomever feels like they are unjustly left out can prove their worth and get a spot. (assuming you think that a qualifier would yield correct results in the first place, then certainly any player you think deserves to make it will end up qualifying. )
Having open qualifiers is a good way of making unknown talent get some spotlight. But it is not a good way of ensuring that the best players end up playing.
So because the voted players coincide with your personal opinion that means that are more or less right? Sorry, but the idea that a poll can provide something even remotely related to "precise results", or "more precise" than something objective like real play is nonsense. He could very much forget about the poll and pick the four foreigners with more followers in twitter and save us the show.
Besides, there are lot of objective metrics to choose the players, even if arbitrary, like aligulac, wcs points, top4, top8 finishes, whatever. But a poll? C'mon.
in any sport asking fans who the best players are yields you very accurate results.. this is because supporters by large actually follow the sport and pay close attention to who is best. And okay, let's compare the current poll to say, a combined aligulac and wcs points.. hell,we can include TLPD as well.
I said that basically the poll reflects reality in the sense that snute scarlett and bunny all seem fairly certain, and they're also (imo) the three players with the best results "lately". And well, aligulac has these three as the highest non-koreans. (Scarlett ahead of bunny ahead of snute, vortix 4th) WCS points gives you snute ahead of bunny ahead of sen ahead of scarlett. (vortix 5th, welmu 6th) TLPD gives you scarlett ahead of bunny, then major vortix heromarine jim starbuck before snute comes in 8th place.
Basically, the poll results seem fairly well aligned with reality. Top 3 in the poll would also be top 3 if going by a combined aligulac+wcs points+TLPD ranking, maybe with bunny ahead of snute but that hardly matters. the 4th place would be contentious, I guess maybe vortix "deserves" it based on the aforementioned criteria and he's trailing a little (meaning that he's 7th) in the poll, but major and welmu are both up there. But this is not to argue that this type of poll gives a perfect result. I am just arguing that if you want the qualifier to be likely to do a better job accurately representing reality, then you need a shitload of games. You can't just do like, two 256 player tournaments, have top 3 from both going on to the finals and expect something better than this - randomness of brackets would make it probable that someone out of snute, scarlett, bunny, or whomever you actually think is deserving of this would be knocked out before reaching a qualifier spot. Going by an invite+qualifier system is much more likely to get the actual best players than just having a qualifier, unless you want to make the qualifier exceptionally long lasting and intricate - which players might not be willing to take part of.
On August 18 2014 19:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: honestly I think with the randomness of a draw, unless you make it like a best of 5 round robin featuring the top 30 players (as determined by what anyway?), which would be an absurd amount of games, you probably get more precise results with this type of poll.
I mean, so far top 3 is scarlett snute bunny, and it seems likely that all these get a spot. Scarlett and Snute have been the best two foreigners for some time, and bunny has arguably the most impressive recent performance out of anyone. And then the 4th spot is like, welmu major and nerchio, all players who are at least pretty close to the 4th spot, and then there's a qualifier where sen or vortix or whomever feels like they are unjustly left out can prove their worth and get a spot. (assuming you think that a qualifier would yield correct results in the first place, then certainly any player you think deserves to make it will end up qualifying. )
Having open qualifiers is a good way of making unknown talent get some spotlight. But it is not a good way of ensuring that the best players end up playing.
So because the voted players coincide with your personal opinion that means that are more or less right? Sorry, but the idea that a poll can provide something even remotely related to "precise results", or "more precise" than something objective like real play is nonsense. He could very much forget about the poll and pick the four foreigners with more followers in twitter and save us the show.
Besides, there are lot of objective metrics to choose the players, even if arbitrary, like aligulac, wcs points, top4, top8 finishes, whatever. But a poll? C'mon.
in any sport asking fans who the best players are yields you very accurate results.. this is because supporters by large actually follow the sport and pay close attention to who is best. And okay, let's compare the current poll to say, a combined aligulac and wcs points.. hell,we can include TLPD as well.
I said that basically the poll reflects reality in the sense that snute scarlett and bunny all seem fairly certain, and they're also (imo) the three players with the best results "lately". And well, aligulac has these three as the highest non-koreans. (Scarlett ahead of bunny ahead of snute, vortix 4th) WCS points gives you snute ahead of bunny ahead of sen ahead of scarlett. (vortix 5th, welmu 6th) TLPD gives you scarlett ahead of bunny, then major vortix heromarine jim starbuck before snute comes in 8th place.
Basically, the poll results seem fairly well aligned with reality. Top 3 in the poll would also be top 3 if going by a combined aligulac+wcs points+TLPD ranking, maybe with bunny ahead of snute but that hardly matters. the 4th place would be contentious, I guess maybe vortix "deserves" it based on the aforementioned criteria and he's trailing a little (meaning that he's 7th) in the poll, but major and welmu are both up there. But this is not to argue that this type of poll gives a perfect result. I am just arguing that if you want the qualifier to be likely to do a better job accurately representing reality, then you need a shitload of games. You can't just do like, two 256 player tournaments, have top 3 from both going on to the finals and expect something better than this - randomness of brackets would make it probable that someone out of snute, scarlett, bunny, or whomever you actually think is deserving of this would be knocked out before reaching a qualifier spot. Going by an invite+qualifier system is much more likely to get the actual best players than just having a qualifier, unless you want to make the qualifier exceptionally long lasting and intricate - which players might not be willing to take part of.
In any sport except Starcraft, otherwise the fan favourites would be mainly Koreans.
On August 19 2014 01:34 Liquid`Drone wrote: but this is only about players outside Korea, how are Koreans relevant to this?
They're not, not in this context at least. But it is worth noting that there is a huge gulf between the best Koreans and the most popular ones. A quick survey of the line up of any invite tournament will confirm this.
I agree. I think this type of poll would be much less likely to yield accurate results regarding Korean players. But people are criticizing this precise tournament when there's nothing that indicates that the poll results are inaccurate or that a qualifier tournament would make anything better.
On August 18 2014 19:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: honestly I think with the randomness of a draw, unless you make it like a best of 5 round robin featuring the top 30 players (as determined by what anyway?), which would be an absurd amount of games, you probably get more precise results with this type of poll.
I mean, so far top 3 is scarlett snute bunny, and it seems likely that all these get a spot. Scarlett and Snute have been the best two foreigners for some time, and bunny has arguably the most impressive recent performance out of anyone. And then the 4th spot is like, welmu major and nerchio, all players who are at least pretty close to the 4th spot, and then there's a qualifier where sen or vortix or whomever feels like they are unjustly left out can prove their worth and get a spot. (assuming you think that a qualifier would yield correct results in the first place, then certainly any player you think deserves to make it will end up qualifying. )
Having open qualifiers is a good way of making unknown talent get some spotlight. But it is not a good way of ensuring that the best players end up playing.
So because the voted players coincide with your personal opinion that means that are more or less right? Sorry, but the idea that a poll can provide something even remotely related to "precise results", or "more precise" than something objective like real play is nonsense. He could very much forget about the poll and pick the four foreigners with more followers in twitter and save us the show.
Besides, there are lot of objective metrics to choose the players, even if arbitrary, like aligulac, wcs points, top4, top8 finishes, whatever. But a poll? C'mon.
in any sport asking fans who the best players are yields you very accurate results.. this is because supporters by large actually follow the sport and pay close attention to who is best. And okay, let's compare the current poll to say, a combined aligulac and wcs points.. hell,we can include TLPD as well.
I said that basically the poll reflects reality in the sense that snute scarlett and bunny all seem fairly certain, and they're also (imo) the three players with the best results "lately". And well, aligulac has these three as the highest non-koreans. (Scarlett ahead of bunny ahead of snute, vortix 4th) WCS points gives you snute ahead of bunny ahead of sen ahead of scarlett. (vortix 5th, welmu 6th) TLPD gives you scarlett ahead of bunny, then major vortix heromarine jim starbuck before snute comes in 8th place.
Basically, the poll results seem fairly well aligned with reality. Top 3 in the poll would also be top 3 if going by a combined aligulac+wcs points+TLPD ranking, maybe with bunny ahead of snute but that hardly matters. the 4th place would be contentious, I guess maybe vortix "deserves" it based on the aforementioned criteria and he's trailing a little (meaning that he's 7th) in the poll, but major and welmu are both up there. But this is not to argue that this type of poll gives a perfect result. I am just arguing that if you want the qualifier to be likely to do a better job accurately representing reality, then you need a shitload of games. You can't just do like, two 256 player tournaments, have top 3 from both going on to the finals and expect something better than this - randomness of brackets would make it probable that someone out of snute, scarlett, bunny, or whomever you actually think is deserving of this would be knocked out before reaching a qualifier spot. Going by an invite+qualifier system is much more likely to get the actual best players than just having a qualifier, unless you want to make the qualifier exceptionally long lasting and intricate - which players might not be willing to take part of.
It gives a tendency, but I don't think, you can get an exact result based on it. Peoples opinions are easily manipulated, you could take Spanishiwa as an example; Husky hyped him quite high in 2010/2011 and there were actually quite a few people, who thought, he might be one of the best foreigners - which was/is obviously false.
Public opinion has other factors than just skill, the amout of games comes into it (An example is Vortix, who plays less than other contenders here and is, despite being about equally as skilled, behind them), the opinion of popular figures in the scene is another (Spanishiwa is one example, Illusion could be another)
Looking at a 2014 earnings ranking (which ofc. also has it's flaws, but is raw data based on results), Snute is alone at the top with 38k, followed by Sen(who is the only one, winning a premier)(29k), Vortix(26k) and Bunny(23k). After that there is a gap between those 4 and the followers (led by Jim(17k) and Scarlett(16k)), so there is at least some data, that would suggest those 4, since they have played the best, when it really mattered.
On August 18 2014 08:51 HoMM wrote: I'm a huge Scarlett fan, but it looks like Bunny really needs the support so my vote goes for him right now!
if welmu gets in over bunny it will be a goddamn tragedy.
I guess some people like the story of an university student fighting an illness and consistently doing well in the WCS for a good while.
Well, hopefully both will get in to the tournament eventually.
I did not know he had an illness... now I kind of feel bad.
It's related to his stomach. (Crohn's disease?) I can't even count how many events he has had to cancel his participation due it. Lately Homestory cup and several DH. Also he couldnt practice for 1 week just before 2013 season2 or 3 season finals. related: https://twitter.com/NrSWelmu/status/377768351579140096
basically sen and jim might be slightly shafted because they get less community exposure in relation to skill because they are asian, but if a qualifier is accurate then they'll get the two other spots anyway? I mean this isn't pure invite, it's invite based on who people want to see the most + qualifier..
On August 19 2014 03:03 stuchiu wrote: I'd rather have the polling done in such a way where people can vote for their top 4 foreigners and results aren't shown till the end.
On a side note I'm pretty tired of invites to tournaments.
On August 19 2014 03:03 stuchiu wrote: I'd rather have the polling done in such a way where people can vote for their top 4 foreigners and results aren't shown till the end.
On a side note I'm pretty tired of invites to tournaments.
if i was to organize a tournament, i would invite the players i think deserve it most. i dont get all those "we need qualifiers for everything" sayers, there are so many tournaments out there that its quite obvious who is the best. a single qualifier can be pretty random at times. some qualifiers are ok, but honestly, if youd invite the obvious top 8 which is: Scarlett, Snute, MajOr, VortiX, Welmu, Bunny, Sen, Jim - everyone would be happy. why qualifiers?
On August 19 2014 03:03 stuchiu wrote: I'd rather have the polling done in such a way where people can vote for their top 4 foreigners and results aren't shown till the end.
On a side note I'm pretty tired of invites to tournaments.
if i was to organize a tournament, i would invite the players i think deserve it most. i dont get all those "we need qualifiers for everything" sayers, there are so many tournaments out there that its quite obvious who is the best. a single qualifier can be pretty random at times. some qualifiers are ok, but honestly, if youd invite the obvious top 8 which is: Scarlett, Snute, MajOr, VortiX, Welmu, Bunny, Sen, Jim - everyone would be happy. why qualifiers?
I think Happy for example wouldn't be happy with this. But than again, I can't really imagine, that he is happy with the current situation either (Not being on a list, QXC and neeb are on).
On August 19 2014 03:03 stuchiu wrote: I'd rather have the polling done in such a way where people can vote for their top 4 foreigners and results aren't shown till the end.
On a side note I'm pretty tired of invites to tournaments.
if i was to organize a tournament, i would invite the players i think deserve it most. i dont get all those "we need qualifiers for everything" sayers, there are so many tournaments out there that its quite obvious who is the best. a single qualifier can be pretty random at times. some qualifiers are ok, but honestly, if youd invite the obvious top 8 which is: Scarlett, Snute, MajOr, VortiX, Welmu, Bunny, Sen, Jim - everyone would be happy. why qualifiers?
Depends on what you're trying to do. If it's just a small thing then whatever. You don't need qualifiers for small online cups that are mostly for fun. But if you want to actually claim something in your tournament like "Our tournament will definitively crown the best player/best foreigner/best player in this region." then you need qualifiers because games best prove who is the best. You'd never get upsets or stories of players constantly fighting each other. One of the reasons invites were used early on was because it was easier to organize and because it was easier to tell the story. Well the second reason is no longer relevant as I don't think we are no longer dependent on a super star carrying viewership (One could say this over emphasis on star players contributed to the decline of the NA scene as well).
And who am I to say to Dayshi, Nerchio, Elfi, TLO, Serral, Mana, Grubby, Has, Kane, Harstem, ToD, Iaguz, Pig, Petreaus, MacSed, Toodming, Xigua, Ian. Sorry guys, you just don't got the results and the prestige to be invited and most people won't complain so no qualifiers. What you want at least the chance to prove it? Too bad. Get out.
Back before Dear won his double royal road everyone thought he was bad. Back before Zest all killed SKT and went on to win GSL, he was at worst terrible and at best mediocre. What once was doesn't necessarily mean it must always continue to be. This isn't like quake or WC3 where you have the same guys always at the top. In SC2, it's always changing. We're too competitive to cutthroat for almost any player to stay at the top for long periods of time.
On August 19 2014 01:06 Liquid`Drone wrote: in any sport asking fans who the best players are yields you very accurate results.. this is because supporters by large actually follow the sport and pay close attention to who is best. And okay, let's compare the current poll to say, a combined aligulac and wcs points.. hell,we can include TLPD as well.
No. Asking fans will yield votes for their favourite players and/or countrymen. Better players have more fans? Depends, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
On August 18 2014 01:12 Faefae wrote: Top 4 foreigners = Vortix, Snute, Bunny, SEn ?
I'd say Scarlett over Vortix, but then again I really haven't seen Vortix play lately.
i'd say scarlett is better than bunny on a consistent level, as are vortix, welmu, Sen and snute.
honestly all 6 of them are great players though, easily able to beat code A koreans on a semi consistent level, and i feel that just listing the top 4 would be a disservice to 2 other great players.
we're also up to 6 foreigners who chase the koreans now, and the tendency is growing rather than shrinking :D
On August 20 2014 03:08 Incognoto wrote: Sen and Major not being top 4 is somewhat cringeworthy. This is a "most popular foreigners tournament". Hope the tournament goes well though.
I'll give you Sen, but on what basis is MajOr being below Snute/Bunny/Welmu cringeworthy?
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
He did not get second in a tournament with only Koreans???
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
He did not get second in a tournament with only Koreans???
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
He did not get second in a tournament with only Koreans???
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
are you referring to Destiny I? He beat MC and violet to advance out of the group stage, and he beat major and kane to finish second.
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
He did not get second in a tournament with only Koreans???
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
I mean, that is a pretty awkward way of working that. And it didn't have only Korean invites; major and Snute were both invited.
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
He did not get second in a tournament with only Koreans???
On August 18 2014 03:46 Cheren wrote: I voted for HuK, he just got second in a tournament that only had Koreans and open qualifiers and generally played well, I know he has too many haters to make top 4, just thought I'd vote for him.
Still not true? Which one? Destiny I's "Open qualifiers" were the top 8 from NA, and there were foreigners invited too -_-
Hmm I was wrong, there were 2 foreigner invites, although only Major actually played Huk.
The ladder qualifier was open though, it wasn't a region locked thing.
I will be drafting 8 players from the top of the North American ladder. In order to qualify from there, the following conditions must be met - You must be playing on an account who's name reflects the person playing it (no barcodes!) You must be the only person laddering on the account. You can't hack, cheat, boost, trade wins or commit any other obviously silly shenanigans. The qualification period for the ladder will end on Sunday, August 3rd, 23:59 EST. At that point I will take the top 8, non-barcoded accounts and invite them to the tournament.
As you can see it wasn't region locked to NA players.
You do realize it's extremely easy for these pools on teamliquid to be botted by people with programming skills? If someone has a player they really want to see, they can get many many votes very quickly (but still not go crazy and make it look obviously suspicious). I know that it can help attract people, because the players will ask their fans to vote, but at the same time it can also be easily abused.
Would you please add myiKane to the list, and give him a vote for me? He made top 50 GM on kr recently, and semifinals in Destiny I, not to mention that he's won series against Life, Hero and Suppy recently.
Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
I have no doubt that both Vortix and Welmu are top ten, and possibly also Kane, but until they prove themselves again recently, I'd really have to go with Major and Dayshi over them. I don't know where to put Happy and Bunny. I think they're both also top 10, and I think they're probably better than Vortix and Welmu, but I doubt they're better than Scarlett, Major, Snute, and Dayshi. It's just an awkward time for me to try to rank foreigners, because we haven't seen them all in one place very recently. 2 months ago, I would've been very comfortable in ranking them Scarlett, Dayshi, Snute, Vortix, but now I'm not really sure.
On August 20 2014 05:40 mikumegurine wrote: Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
On August 20 2014 05:40 mikumegurine wrote: Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
OMG, you are so right. Snute may have won 10k$ more then every other foreigner in 2014 and he may be ahead 500 WCS points over every other foreigner, but he lost a a single ZvZ series by one map difference. Clearly he is not top-foreigner material and should be excluded from the poll.
But that is not enough: Scarlett lost to MaSa, who is not in the pull as well during IEM qualifiers, so she should be excluded! Welmu lost to TargA, who is not in the poll during WTB EU qualifiers, so he should be excluded! Nerchio lost to TargA during Go4SC2 #394 as well, so he should be excluded! MajOr lost Miniraiser at Anaheim, let's throw him out as well! Vortix hasn't played an official game in two weeks, clearly he is inactive, so out with him! Bunny is only here, because his race is OP as shit, he would never be able to do the same with P or Z, out with him! Sen dropped 2 maps (in a bo5) to Guitarcheese 3 months ago, out with him!
Be gone, all you filthy casuals!
Ok, enough with the sarcasm, while voting might not be an optimal system, your attacks against Snute are just incredibly wrong.
Man, having 12 players would be much better actually...
Just taking the top 4, especially when it's a popularity contest, really leaves out some of the top players. If we go EU/America, these players must be there for top competition:
1. Scarlett 2. Snute 3. Major
Then their primary competition would be:
4. Bunny 5. Vortix 6. Dayshi 7. Heromarine 8. Kane 9. Welmu 10. Huk
Not to mention if you include asian foreigners, which are probably better than the EU/America ones:
a) Jim b) Sen c) Has d) Toodming e) Macsed
These listed above are probably the 15 best foreigners on the planet, and I think they are too close to only have 6 on the play, that's why I believe 10-16 spots would be perfect. Then other competition (but noticeably on a lower level would be):
On August 20 2014 05:40 mikumegurine wrote: Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
OMG, you are so right. Snute may have won 10k$ more then every other foreigner in 2014 and he may be ahead 500 WCS points over every other foreigner, but he lost a a single ZvZ series by one map difference. Clearly he is not top-foreigner material and should be excluded from the poll.
But that is not enough: Scarlett lost to MaSa, who is not in the pull as well during IEM qualifiers, so she should be excluded! Welmu lost to TargA, who is not in the poll during WTB EU qualifiers, so he should be excluded! Nerchio lost to TargA during Go4SC2 #394 as well, so he should be excluded! MajOr lost Miniraiser at Anaheim, let's throw him out as well! Vortix hasn't played an official game in two weeks, clearly he is inactive, so out with him! Bunny is only here, because his race is OP as shit, he would never be able to do the same with P or Z, out with him! Sen dropped 2 maps (in a bo5) to Guitarcheese 3 months ago, out with him!
Be gone, all you filthy casuals!
Ok, enough with the sarcasm, while voting might not be an optimal system, your attacks against Snute are just incredibly wrong.
i think u misunderstood my position or i was not clear, i willtry to clarify.
im not attacking Snute, if im "attacking at all" it would be that im "attacking" this flawed system that will determine the "BEST 6 FOREIGNERS"
i voted for SNUTE!, (Yes i voted for him over my favorite Canadian and player Scarlett)
SNUTE is my 2nd favorite foreigner!
im saying that having 4 popularity invites, then 2 more "best foreigners" that have to go through a tough gauntlet of other foreigners is not going to be fair and give us the "Top 6 Absolute Best foreigner Hopes"
Understand?
People have said this 4 invite and 2 qualifier will give us the 6 best foreigners without a doubt, since anyone not popular enough to be invited, will be sooo Good that they will be guaranteed to make it through the qualifier for the 2 spots
I put the example of Snute losing to Miniraiser in there because even the Top foreigners might lose in the qualifer and thus be deemed "Not top 6 foreigners in the world"
Imagine if the WCS match really happened in the Qualifier, and so Snute is out
Think of how ridiculous the "Top 6 Best Foreigner Hope Tournament" would be without Snute in it
On August 20 2014 05:40 mikumegurine wrote: Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
OMG, you are so right. Snute may have won 10k$ more then every other foreigner in 2014 and he may be ahead 500 WCS points over every other foreigner, but he lost a a single ZvZ series by one map difference. Clearly he is not top-foreigner material and should be excluded from the poll.
But that is not enough: Scarlett lost to MaSa, who is not in the pull as well during IEM qualifiers, so she should be excluded! Welmu lost to TargA, who is not in the poll during WTB EU qualifiers, so he should be excluded! Nerchio lost to TargA during Go4SC2 #394 as well, so he should be excluded! MajOr lost Miniraiser at Anaheim, let's throw him out as well! Vortix hasn't played an official game in two weeks, clearly he is inactive, so out with him! Bunny is only here, because his race is OP as shit, he would never be able to do the same with P or Z, out with him! Sen dropped 2 maps (in a bo5) to Guitarcheese 3 months ago, out with him!
Be gone, all you filthy casuals!
Ok, enough with the sarcasm, while voting might not be an optimal system, your attacks against Snute are just incredibly wrong.
i think u misunderstood my position or i was not clear, i willtry to clarify.
im not attacking Snute, if im "attacking at all" it would be that im "attacking" this flawed system that will determine the "BEST 6 FOREIGNERS"
i voted for SNUTE!, (Yes i voted for him over my favorite Canadian and player Scarlett)
SNUTE is my 2nd favorite foreigner!
im saying that having 4 popularity invites, then 2 more "best foreigners" that have to go through a tough gauntlet of other foreigners is not going to be fair and give us the "Top 6 Absolute Best foreigner Hopes"
Understand?
People have said this 4 invite and 2 qualifier will give us the 6 best foreigners without a doubt, since anyone not popular enough to be invited, will be sooo Good that they will be guaranteed to make it through the qualifier for the 2 spots
I put the example of Snute losing to Miniraiser in there because even the Top foreigners might lose in the qualifer and thus be deemed "Not top 6 foreigners in the world"
Imagine if the WCS match really happened in the Qualifier, and so Snute is out
Think of how ridiculous the "Top 6 Best Foreigner Hope Tournament" would be without Snute in it
That is what im saying.
Yeah, I did indeed heavily misunderstand you. I hope you can forgive me for that. But in my defence, if you read the last two lines sarcastic instead of the first two, you can easily interpret the post as Snute bashing, which I (and apperently also Zenbrez) did.
But again, I apologize for my answer, I was apperently misinterpreting you.
Edit@FiWiFaKi: I'd pretty heavily disagree with that list, Kane or Heromarine shouldn't be be above Happy/Nerchio/Welmu, MajOr over Bunny/Vortix isn't clear for me either, IMHO top 3(western) (in no particular order) are Bunny, Snute and Scarlett.
Is this the first tournament that involves racial discrimination? Something like this would probabaly infringe discrimination laws in my country at least. The whole concept of this tournament makes me a little unconfortable, might be just me though...
On August 20 2014 08:50 Dworkin wrote: Is this the first tournament that involves racial discrimination? Something like this would probabaly infringe discrimination laws in my country at least. The whole concept of this tournament makes me a little unconfortable, might be just me though...
Judging by your post count, I'll assume that you're new here. Koreans are generally considered to be on a level so far above everyone else, that it simply makes no sense to rank them in the same categories as westerners in general, which is why we hold these "best foreigner" types of arguments. It's not out of any dislike towards Koreans, but due to the fact that we want to see more of our countrymen strutting their stuff.
On August 20 2014 12:59 SniXSniPe wrote: Major, Bunny, Snute, Scarlett, Sen, and Jim are all valid choices.
I would pick Sen, Jim, and Bunny for my top 3. After that, would probably lean towards Scarlett or Snute, and then Major.
But given the fact that 95%+ of Teamliquid is either from NA or EU, there odds of having a non-North American or non-European are rather close to zero.
On August 20 2014 12:59 SniXSniPe wrote: Major, Bunny, Snute, Scarlett, Sen, and Jim are all valid choices.
I would pick Sen, Jim, and Bunny for my top 3. After that, would probably lean towards Scarlett or Snute, and then Major.
But given the fact that 95%+ of Teamliquid is either from NA or EU, there odds of having a non-North American or non-European are rather close to zero.
hmm about that, would u say this tournament is the 6 most popular/best NA and EU foreigners then?
also you mention Sen and Jim, I guess since these 2 are not that popular in NA and EU, they will have to duke it out in the stacked qualifiers, playing with HUGE lag from China/Taiwan, since assuming the qualifiers will be played in NA or EU server?
So Sen and Jim will be at a disadvantage with the lag playing vs other foreigners in the heavily stacked qualifier....(Dat 500 ms ping lag from China, one of the Chinese players in tournament even used the Player Name "500 Ping" LOL)
On August 20 2014 12:59 SniXSniPe wrote: Major, Bunny, Snute, Scarlett, Sen, and Jim are all valid choices.
I would pick Sen, Jim, and Bunny for my top 3. After that, would probably lean towards Scarlett or Snute, and then Major.
But given the fact that 95%+ of Teamliquid is either from NA or EU, there odds of having a non-North American or non-European are rather close to zero.
hmm about that, would u say this tournament is the 6 most popular/best NA and EU foreigners then?
also you mention Sen and Jim, I guess since these 2 are not that popular in NA and EU, they will have to duke it out in the stacked qualifiers, playing with HUGE lag from China/Taiwan, since assuming the qualifiers will be played in NA or EU server?
So Sen and Jim will be at a disadvantage with the lag playing vs other foreigners in the heavily stacked qualifier....(Dat 500 ms ping lag from China, one of the Chinese players in tournament even used the Player Name "500 Ping" LOL)
Popularity is definitely a factor, but it's a mix of both. A player who is very popular but has been performing very poorly, wont get in, but neither will a super skilled player with absolutely no fans or toxic personality. You need a mix of both simply put, and of course popularity wise Snute and Scarlett are on top(so they'll get their spots.), and skill wise they are pretty high, but truthfully there is a lot of competition for Top 3 foreigner spots right now.
And I meant to say the non-EU/America players wont get in through polls, of course they are very likely to make it through the qualifiers, ping and everything considered, and given that they participate, I'd say there's a 80% chance at least one Chinese/Taiwan/etc player will make it through that way.
Even though the flaws of a 1 vote system are well known, the top four are pretty accurate in terms of skill. After that, popularity shows its rear end.
Sen and Jim definitely underrepresented. Vortix a little bit
Nerchio overrepresented. TLO and Grubby definitely overrepresented
Chinese and Taiwanese guys would probably benefit most if there was pick 4 players option. They aren't people's first choice in popularity or skill (except maybe for Sen but he's still too low for his reputation) but they're respected and could be third or fourth choice of many.
I'm still surprised with Vortix. I'd expect that his reputation + Spanish supporters + Millenium supporters would pull him higher than seventh place. Maybe it's an effect of unmet very high expectations in WCS Europe combined with small exposure recently. To many the first memory of him is loosing to Golden in a match where he was a favorite.
On August 20 2014 17:17 BakedButters wrote: Sen and Jim definitely underrepresented. Vortix a little bit
I would say Vortix is hugely underrepresented. Only player in europe to make Top8 four times, including a Top4. Vasacast win a couple months ago (over MMA, Jjaki and Stardust). Excellent results is all Acer Teamstory Cups. Top2 in Fragbite Masters (defeating MC, Solar and KangHo) this year.
Can't find a more consistent player in Europe. Don't know what else the guy has to do. He's yet to be invited to a Homestory Cup.
On August 20 2014 17:17 BakedButters wrote: Sen and Jim definitely underrepresented. Vortix a little bit
I would say Vortix is hugely underrepresented. Only player in europe to make Top8 four times, including a Top4. Vasacast win a couple months ago (over MMA, Jjaki and Stardust). Excellent results is all Acer Teamstory Cups. Top2 in Fragbite Masters (defeating MC, Solar and KangHo) this year.
Can't find a more consistent player in Europe. Don't know what else the guy has to do. He's yet to be invited to a Homestory Cup.
AFAIK, he is only a part-time player, he also studies Computer Science, so that probably takes quite a bit of time.
On August 20 2014 17:17 BakedButters wrote: Sen and Jim definitely underrepresented. Vortix a little bit
I would say Vortix is hugely underrepresented. Only player in europe to make Top8 four times, including a Top4. Vasacast win a couple months ago (over MMA, Jjaki and Stardust). Excellent results is all Acer Teamstory Cups. Top2 in Fragbite Masters (defeating MC, Solar and KangHo) this year.
Can't find a more consistent player in Europe. Don't know what else the guy has to do. He's yet to be invited to a Homestory Cup.
AFAIK, he is only a part-time player, he also studies Computer Science, so that probably takes quite a bit of time.
I don't think it should be used as an excuse, though. So does Nerchio (also computer science) for 2 or 3 years, so does Welmu and I'm sure many others. Overseas tournaments aren't for them but they should be capable of participating in most of Europeans ones and there are many.
On August 20 2014 17:17 BakedButters wrote: Sen and Jim definitely underrepresented. Vortix a little bit
I would say Vortix is hugely underrepresented. Only player in europe to make Top8 four times, including a Top4. Vasacast win a couple months ago (over MMA, Jjaki and Stardust). Excellent results is all Acer Teamstory Cups. Top2 in Fragbite Masters (defeating MC, Solar and KangHo) this year.
Can't find a more consistent player in Europe. Don't know what else the guy has to do. He's yet to be invited to a Homestory Cup.
AFAIK, he is only a part-time player, he also studies Computer Science, so that probably takes quite a bit of time.
I don't think it should be used as an excuse, though. So does Nerchio (also computer science) for 2 or 3 years, so does Welmu and I'm sure many others. Overseas tournaments aren't for them but they should be capable of participating in most of Europeans ones and there are many.
An excuse? He doesn't have to excuse anything, it's not like he is obligated to play every tournament. If he needs time for his studies, he skipps tourneys, that's just normal.
On August 20 2014 17:45 Luolis wrote: Welmu 5th in votes currently. Whole of Finland to vote for him kk? :d
I hope Welmu can close the gap. If there aren't any Protoss players involved then there's little chance of me caring. Guess I'd have to hope for one to make it through the qualifiers.
Voted for Scarlett. Really tough to decide, which is a good sign for foreigners, there begins to be many good players. I'd like to see Scarlett/Snute/Bunny/MajOr as top 4.
Please put Huk in. He is been holding down for the foreign scene since day 1. He went to Korea to train before it was even cool. He was one few foreigners to compete (and stay in) GSL code S. He has won major tournaments against Koreans (one of the first foreigners to win after the integration). Huk must be a contender if its truly a battle for top foreigner.
On August 21 2014 08:47 Cool C wrote: Please put Huk in. He is been holding down for the foreign scene since day 1. He went to Korea to train before it was even cool. He was one few foreigners to compete (and stay in) GSL code S. He has won major tournaments against Koreans (one of the first foreigners to win after the integration). Huk must be a contender if its truly a battle for top foreigner.
But it's about the current state of affairs, otherwise you'd have Stephano up there too since he's been active again. Huk is still relevant due to his current good shape, his spot in the poll was acquired by winning tough matches, not by the size of his trophy shelf. This is still quite impressive.
On August 20 2014 17:17 BakedButters wrote: Even though the flaws of a 1 vote system are well known, the top four are pretty accurate in terms of skill. After that, popularity shows its rear end.
Sen and Jim definitely underrepresented. Vortix a little bit
Nerchio overrepresented. TLO and Grubby definitely overrepresented
On August 20 2014 07:04 FiWiFaKi wrote: Man, having 12 players would be much better actually...
Just taking the top 4, especially when it's a popularity contest, really leaves out some of the top players. If we go EU/America, these players must be there for top competition:
1. Scarlett 2. Snute 3. Major
Then their primary competition would be:
4. Bunny 5. Vortix 6. Dayshi 7. Heromarine 8. Kane 9. Welmu 10. Huk
Not to mention if you include asian foreigners, which are probably better than the EU/America ones:
a) Jim b) Sen c) Has d) Toodming e) Macsed
These listed above are probably the 15 best foreigners on the planet, and I think they are too close to only have 6 on the play, that's why I believe 10-16 spots would be perfect.
I agree, just missing TLO in that list so make it 1-10 + a-e and TLO. Then you have to figure out what would be the best way to determine who is The Best. Put them into 2 groups of 8 players each and do round-robin-group-play (like in Destiny I)? Then take top 2 from each group and do semifinals and finals bo5? I think madals don't have time to do all this and server lag could be an issue for the players in an online tournament, but yeah would probably be the most fair way to really determine who the best is.
And to madals: this tournament you are making is a good idea, I am impressed and it's about time we finally get some "forigner action". Maybe if you could do this monthly (or at least more than once a year) then you don't have to worry to get the perfect matchups, because in time the voters will adapt and get the best player into the tournament.
I would watch for sure (are the lag problems solved for sure now???). :-)
On August 22 2014 19:08 y0su wrote: Pretty cool to see how close the voting is between 2 and 5!
Indeed, but not strange considering how few votes they have got so far. Like Grubby have 99 votes and at least 2-3 k viewers when he is streaming. If he just got half his viewers to vote he would be #1 for sure. That is probably the same for several players here, if their fans was aware of it they would each have thousands of votes like Stephano (not in the list though) was streaming yesterday peaking around 4.5 k viewers (or was it even higher?).
On August 20 2014 05:40 mikumegurine wrote: Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
OMG, you are so right. Snute may have won 10k$ more then every other foreigner in 2014 and he may be ahead 500 WCS points over every other foreigner, but he lost a a single ZvZ series by one map difference. Clearly he is not top-foreigner material and should be excluded from the poll.
But that is not enough: Scarlett lost to MaSa, who is not in the pull as well during IEM qualifiers, so she should be excluded! Welmu lost to TargA, who is not in the poll during WTB EU qualifiers, so he should be excluded! Nerchio lost to TargA during Go4SC2 #394 as well, so he should be excluded! MajOr lost Miniraiser at Anaheim, let's throw him out as well! Vortix hasn't played an official game in two weeks, clearly he is inactive, so out with him! Bunny is only here, because his race is OP as shit, he would never be able to do the same with P or Z, out with him! Sen dropped 2 maps (in a bo5) to Guitarcheese 3 months ago, out with him!
Be gone, all you filthy casuals!
Ok, enough with the sarcasm, while voting might not be an optimal system, your attacks against Snute are just incredibly wrong.
It's the second time somebody brings up that match and I didn't lose it, it was a walkover
On August 20 2014 05:40 mikumegurine wrote: Snute just got beat by another foreigner in WCS who isnt even in this poll....cmon u supposed to win the entire thing this season...u the best foreigner...
so for example, if Snute is not in this top 4 popularity contest, and so must go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots
Snute would be knocked out of the entire "Best Foreigner Hope tournament", and not be counted as BEST foreigner
good thing Snute is popular and in social media and will get invited so he doesnt have to go through the qualifiers for the 2 spots like most the foreigners will have to do right?
OMG, you are so right. Snute may have won 10k$ more then every other foreigner in 2014 and he may be ahead 500 WCS points over every other foreigner, but he lost a a single ZvZ series by one map difference. Clearly he is not top-foreigner material and should be excluded from the poll.
But that is not enough: Scarlett lost to MaSa, who is not in the pull as well during IEM qualifiers, so she should be excluded! Welmu lost to TargA, who is not in the poll during WTB EU qualifiers, so he should be excluded! Nerchio lost to TargA during Go4SC2 #394 as well, so he should be excluded! MajOr lost Miniraiser at Anaheim, let's throw him out as well! Vortix hasn't played an official game in two weeks, clearly he is inactive, so out with him! Bunny is only here, because his race is OP as shit, he would never be able to do the same with P or Z, out with him! Sen dropped 2 maps (in a bo5) to Guitarcheese 3 months ago, out with him!
Be gone, all you filthy casuals!
Ok, enough with the sarcasm, while voting might not be an optimal system, your attacks against Snute are just incredibly wrong.
It's the second time somebody brings up that match and I didn't lose it, it was a walkover
Sorry, I was browsing through you aligulac match history to find something and this was there. I didn't mean to spread false information, was just relying on the info to be true.
On August 22 2014 19:08 y0su wrote: Pretty cool to see how close the voting is between 2 and 5!
Indeed, but not strange considering how few votes they have got so far. Like Grubby have 99 votes and at least 2-3 k viewers when he is streaming. If he just got half his viewers to vote he would be #1 for sure. That is probably the same for several players here, if their fans was aware of it they would each have thousands of votes like Stephano (not in the list though) was streaming yesterday peaking around 4.5 k viewers (or was it even higher?).
On August 23 2014 23:02 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: But do they think Grubby should be in top4?
No, considering his results last 12 months I can say Grubby is not top 4 forigner atm. My point was that several players on this list do have a core fan base probably larger than the highest voter here have, so anyone of the players that mentions this on his / her stream and provides a link might drastically change the result compared to what we have now.
On August 25 2014 01:55 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Nerchio in top2 now köh köh....polish fans has arrived
Funny how you mention polish fans and fail to see dozens of finns in the thread "strangely" voting/supporting Welmu lol. Edit : heh, just noticed the comment above - another unbiased Finn! :D
I do hope we can get this to be a repeated event. Like, top 1 or 2 from this one get seeded into the next tournament, plus invitations and qualifiers like before
On August 26 2014 05:12 Luolis wrote: Nerchio in top 2 makes me salty. Maximum overrustle.
You don't like players who are good at the game, or what?
Isn't that obvious? I mean who would even be better than him other than (maybe) Scarlett? Maybe he's silly and even thinks people like Snute, Bunny, Vortix and Major (not counting Welmu because he's just some protoss) are better and have better results in the last 1.5 years or so, which is also kinda bad mannered of Luolis imo.
Ps. I just think it all comes down to Luolis being jealous that Nerchio is top-2 while he himself isn't even on the list.
On August 26 2014 09:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I do hope we can get this to be a repeated event. Like, top 1 or 2 from this one get seeded into the next tournament, plus invitations and qualifiers like before
I aim to be able to repeat this - obviously a lot of it comes down to how successful this event is however!
Talking of which, can't do a prize pool update today as there have been no more contributions towards the prize pool
If you want to support the tournament, take a look at the Indiegogo campaign
On August 26 2014 05:12 Luolis wrote: Nerchio in top 2 makes me salty. Maximum overrustle.
You don't like players who are good at the game, or what?
Well, when the 6 next players below him have better results than him in the last year or so, that says a whole lot about how bad this vote is, if we want to get the best foreigners, and not fan favorites.
Round-robin format seems more interesting, but lack of grand final is quite bad. What if top2 would play a grand final with first player having 1 map advantage?
Option 1: Massive round-robin group with all 6 players
Pros: Everyone plays everyone = no denying who is the best.
Cons: Someone could win before the final game based on scores. A tie would have to be resolved with either map score or head to head (both have critics).
Why top 4 don't advance then? Why top2 advance in Option 2?
Best is to have 6 player group and 4 or 2 advance and they play playoffs. What is problem with that?
I think 6 players is not a pool large enough. It should be extended to 8 or 10 players at least. Especially because of the vote thing. It's a shame because I love the idea of the tournament.
On August 31 2014 15:56 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Wtf hundreds/thousand of new votes so fast without comments? What happend :O
You can also vote while logged out of TL (which is a big flaw of the voting system imho, since you cannot monitor / detect spamvotes), so it's easily achievable if you just spread the word "here is this webpage, find me in this list and click" + Show Spoiler +
or there are other solutions too but i dont want to accuse of anything... without proof
On August 31 2014 18:47 madals wrote: Going to contact a TL mod / admin about the voting - 1000+ votes in less than 24 hours all for one player is suspicious
Manas votes were also kinda suspicious, since if i last recall he got like 400 votes before the end of voting. I hope thats not the case though, cause Mana is awesome.
Yeah, but Sen won two Hong Kong tournaments recently, only on SC2 and one in Hearthstone (beating Amaz), so he has a lot of exposure the last days, especially in Asia.
I don't have a clue of what happened, but he might gave an interview or something and that's the reason he got a lot of votes.
Also Mana got a lot of votes (more than Snute and Bunny). The thing is that people vote who like more, not who's the best! To be honest I like Mana a lot more than Snute and Bunny. Nothing personal, I just follow Mana since the beginning and I always liked his stream.
On August 31 2014 23:18 CNSnow wrote: Yeah, but Sen won two Hong Kong tournaments recently, only on SC2 and one in Hearthstone (beating Amaz), so he has a lot of exposure the last days, especially in Asia.
I don't have a clue of what happened, but he might gave an interview or something and that's the reason he got a lot of votes.
....
That's quite true. There is a post about this poll at a Taiwan sc2 forum. It got over 1000 hits in 7 hrs. I believe most of the people had polled for Sen just as I did....
Sen is the only foreigner to win a premier tournament since 2012?
and he has been around the longest next to Whitera or something
and he just won Hearthstone Tournament beating Amaz, who is a big deal, (and there are probably more HS viewers and players than SC2 in the world right now)
and if its true that after his victories a Taiwanese forum posted this poll link and had everyone on there vote for Sen, then well, i guess its not TOO farfetched
well still kinda farfetched but, whatever this is just a POPULARITY Tournament after all, u wont get the 6 best foreigners from this...?
EDIT:
Sen Scarlett Nerchio MaNa
so far its these 4 with most votes
so no Bunny, no Snute (best foreigner aint even going to lie, and even Apollo said so on stream)
Bunny and Snute might have to go through the tough and stacked gauntlet that is the qualifiers, for that 2 spots cause they werent popular enough
and note upsets do happen, like a certain TL player who lost to Minraiser in WCS EU, imagine a this "6 best foreigner tournament" without this TL player, ridiculous
pretty fair that some popular players got invites and 2 players will have a much tougher road to getting in huh for this 6 Best Foreigner tournament
On September 01 2014 02:47 mikumegurine wrote: Sen is the only foreigner to win a premier tournament since 2012?
and he has been around the longest next to Whitera or something
and he just won Hearthstone Tournament beating Amaz, who is a big deal, (and there are probably more HS viewers and players than SC2 in the world right now)
and if its true that after his victories a Taiwanese forum posted this poll link and had everyone on there vote for Sen, then well, i guess its not TOO farfetched
well still kinda farfetched but, whatever this is just a POPULARITY Tournament after all, u wont get the 6 best foreigners from this...?
EDIT:
Sen Scarlett Nerchio MaNa
so far its these 4 with most votes
so no Bunny, no Snute (best foreigner aint even going to lie, and even Apollo said so on stream)
Bunny and Snute might have to go through the tough and stacked gauntlet that is the qualifiers, for that 2 spots cause they werent popular enough
and note upsets do happen, like a certain TL player who lost to Minraiser in WCS EU, imagine a this "6 best foreigner tournament" without this TL player, ridiculous
pretty fair that some popular players got invites and 2 players will have a much tougher road to getting in huh for this 6 Best Foreigner tournament
If you are the best foreigner a random bracket made of mid tier foreigners shouldn't really be a problem?
On September 01 2014 02:47 mikumegurine wrote: Sen is the only foreigner to win a premier tournament since 2012?
and he has been around the longest next to Whitera or something
and he just won Hearthstone Tournament beating Amaz, who is a big deal, (and there are probably more HS viewers and players than SC2 in the world right now)
and if its true that after his victories a Taiwanese forum posted this poll link and had everyone on there vote for Sen, then well, i guess its not TOO farfetched
well still kinda farfetched but, whatever this is just a POPULARITY Tournament after all, u wont get the 6 best foreigners from this...?
EDIT:
Sen Scarlett Nerchio MaNa
so far its these 4 with most votes
so no Bunny, no Snute (best foreigner aint even going to lie, and even Apollo said so on stream)
Bunny and Snute might have to go through the tough and stacked gauntlet that is the qualifiers, for that 2 spots cause they werent popular enough
and note upsets do happen, like a certain TL player who lost to Minraiser in WCS EU, imagine a this "6 best foreigner tournament" without this TL player, ridiculous
pretty fair that some popular players got invites and 2 players will have a much tougher road to getting in huh for this 6 Best Foreigner tournament
If you are the best foreigner a random bracket made of mid tier foreigners shouldn't really be a problem?
well let me try an example, do u consider Miniraiser a mid tier foreigner? i dont know all bout EU so not sure if he counts as a high mid or low tier foreigner
he beat Snute in WCS EU...Snute, who many agree is the best foreigner (even Apollo blantly said Snute is the best foreigner on stream)
so the qualifer bracket is not an exactly random "easy" bracket players have to go through
EDIT: Also thinking bout Sen's votes, they might be real?
cause if those were fake votes, wouldnt the faker try to avoid being so obvious by having SO many votes? if they were fake votes, the faker would add just enough votes to put Sen in the top 4 votes or maybe #1 votes, but wouldnt go so high to avoid suspicion
On September 01 2014 02:47 mikumegurine wrote: Sen is the only foreigner to win a premier tournament since 2012?
and he has been around the longest next to Whitera or something
and he just won Hearthstone Tournament beating Amaz, who is a big deal, (and there are probably more HS viewers and players than SC2 in the world right now)
and if its true that after his victories a Taiwanese forum posted this poll link and had everyone on there vote for Sen, then well, i guess its not TOO farfetched
well still kinda farfetched but, whatever this is just a POPULARITY Tournament after all, u wont get the 6 best foreigners from this...?
EDIT:
Sen Scarlett Nerchio MaNa
so far its these 4 with most votes
so no Bunny, no Snute (best foreigner aint even going to lie, and even Apollo said so on stream)
Bunny and Snute might have to go through the tough and stacked gauntlet that is the qualifiers, for that 2 spots cause they werent popular enough
and note upsets do happen, like a certain TL player who lost to Minraiser in WCS EU, imagine a this "6 best foreigner tournament" without this TL player, ridiculous
pretty fair that some popular players got invites and 2 players will have a much tougher road to getting in huh for this 6 Best Foreigner tournament
If you are the best foreigner a random bracket made of mid tier foreigners shouldn't really be a problem?
well let me try an example, do u consider Miniraiser a mid tier foreigner? i dont know all bout EU so not sure if he counts as a high mid or low tier foreigner
he beat Snute in WCS EU...Snute, who many agree is the best foreigner (even Apollo blantly said Snute is the best foreigner on stream)
so the qualifer bracket is not an exactly random "easy" bracket players have to go through
EDIT: Also thinking bout Sen's votes, they might be real?
cause if those were fake votes, wouldnt the faker try to avoid being so obvious by having SO many votes? if they were fake votes, the faker would add just enough votes to put Sen in the top 4 votes or maybe #1 votes, but wouldnt go so high to avoid suspicion
The voting poll was selected by the top 21 (most I can put in the poll) Non-Korean players in the WCS Global Ranking as of 17th Aug 2014. Voting Closed Sunday, Aug 31 9:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
VOTE RESULTS
Invites will be given to the top 4 in the vote, then if declined offered to 5th,6th etc. I will update this post when invited players have accepted!
I decline my spot in the tournament, Snute deserves it much more and I will try to prove myself in the open bracket. Thanks for everybody who voted for me though.
Hmmmm it seems very strange that Nerchio got so many votes, since this is essentially a popularity contest. He has a third of the twitter followers as snute and is clearly not a top level foreigner atm.
On September 01 2014 07:08 Ben1500 wrote: Hmmmm it seems very strange that Nerchio got so many votes, since this is essentially a popularity contest. He has a third of the twitter followers as snute and is clearly not a top level foreigner atm.
The polish community is very active and very well organized. They have a huge forum (the polish equivalent of TL), don't remember how it's called and it's safe to guess that a big part of the votes for Nerchio and MaNa come from them. So no, not that strange.
On August 18 2014 02:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I think you should use pollcode or strawpoll or some other site that allows you to pick more than one option. That would make it a little bit less difficult to choose and also would probably give the slightly less popular foreigners a better chance.
But if the point is to have the most popular foreigners, why would giving the less popular foreigners a chance matter? :/
Well, this is essentially a popularity contest, and Sen has a huge followings even though they are not very vocal on TL.
Looking forward to Sen claiming the best non-Korean title... He has been in the conversation (constantly one of the best non-Koreans) for that title many years...
Not many Sen's fans noticed this vote at the beginning. Sen got a lot vote in the short time lastly because this post was reposted on PTT (largest forum in Taiwan), Sen's official facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/YangChiaCheng 57,000 likes). Also, another Taiwanese famous SC2 commentator SoBadRush talk about this on his page too.
On September 01 2014 13:06 Supdude wrote: Well, this is essentially a popularity contest, and Sen has a huge followings even though they are not very vocal on TL.
Looking forward to Sen claiming the best non-Korean title... He has been in the conversation (constantly one of the best non-Koreans) for that title many years...
He can claim to be the best foreigner only if in this tournament play the best foreigners.
On September 01 2014 03:38 mikumegurine wrote: yet the vote count is high...
What do you mean with high? You mean low, right? That's why this happend, and I pointed it out earlier in the thread.
I still think any other low voted player could have pulled this off as well, check out how many followers they have on twitter and just half that amount would have earned them the top spot in this voting. I think most players didn't just write about this on twitter, in their fanclubs and so on.
Grubby 51 xxx Vortix 7 858 Welmu 3 735
And about Sen, well the asian esport scene is probably huge. And I am not gonna write he didn't deserve the spot, most on that list deserves a chance to play for the best-non-korean-title imho (if only the list of invited players where bigger, though I don't know yet how many will be accepted to the open brackets so that could fix the problem I guess).
To Madals: gl gl with the tournament, I will watch for sure. I so wish there was a way to donate anonymously (not just to this tournament, but in general) then I would try to contribute as well.
snute snute snute for pete sake he is the best forgeigner in the history of starcraft most propably.Who naniwa? dont be ridiculous.Foreign hope cannot possible be played without snute
On September 01 2014 03:38 mikumegurine wrote: yet the vote count is high...
To Madals: gl gl with the tournament, I will watch for sure. I so wish there was a way to donate anonymously (not just to this tournament, but in general) then I would try to contribute as well.
Subbing via my twitch would only show a twitch user name. Donating via payal would only show your name (which, if you leave a comment I wouldn't share anywhere).
On September 02 2014 22:13 madals wrote: Subbing via my twitch would only show a twitch user name. Donating via payal would only show your name (which, if you leave a comment I wouldn't share anywhere).
The open bracket has a maximum of 1024 players, limited to Masters of above Non-Korean players. The qualifier will take place on the EU Server. The top two players from the qualifier will earn their spot in The Foreign Hope!
Round 1024 to 256 will be BO1. Round 256 to QF will be BO3 SF will be BO5
On September 04 2014 05:36 Shellshock wrote: Hoping for some more race diversity since it's mostly zerg already but it would be kind of a shame if Snute didn't qualify
Don't worry, I will cruise through this qualifier with ease. Terrans fighting!
On September 04 2014 05:36 Shellshock wrote: Hoping for some more race diversity since it's mostly zerg already but it would be kind of a shame if Snute didn't qualify
Snute's already in. Mana announced he was giving his spot to him because Snute was next in line for an invite and he felt Snute deserved it more. Check the last page if you want the tweet/post
On September 04 2014 05:36 Shellshock wrote: Hoping for some more race diversity since it's mostly zerg already but it would be kind of a shame if Snute didn't qualify
Snute's already in. Mana announced he was giving his spot to him because Snute was next in line for an invite and he felt Snute deserved it more. Check the last page if you want the tweet/post
Oh cool thanks. I missed that. Well then go Terrans and protoss!
On September 04 2014 06:31 chipmonklord17 wrote: Snute's already in. Mana announced he was giving his spot to him because Snute was next in line for an invite and he felt Snute deserved it more. Check the last page if you want the tweet/post
Did he confirm his spot? Did anyone confirm their spot? First post just says it will update when they have confirmed...
The open bracket has a maximum of 1024 players, limited to Masters of above Non-Korean players. The qualifier will take place on the EU Server. The top two players from the qualifier will earn their spot in The Foreign Hope!
Round 1024 to 256 will be BO1. Round 256 to QF will be BO3 SF will be BO5
Will high ranked GMs gonna be seeded into Round 256 or they gonna play BO1 as well?
On September 04 2014 05:36 Shellshock wrote: Hoping for some more race diversity since it's mostly zerg already but it would be kind of a shame if Snute didn't qualify
Don't worry, I will cruise through this qualifier with ease. Terrans fighting!
What will the prize pool distribution look like? How many get prizes and how much for winner? Need to know much money I'll have to spend on my vacation.
I had this issue with Binarybeast when I was running an event in Summer 2013 and it looks like it still hasn't been fixed. Nothing you can really do but 'make your own bracket'
if Sen is invited, then who are the 4 invited players really?
Didn't see that; when I checked LP earlier, it still said Sen. Now it says, Sen didn't respond to madals and thus his spot goes to the next in line. So I guess Snute, Bunny, Nerchio and Scarlett.
Edit: Also: was there some clarification on on the bracket? At the moment it still shows 4 people playing for one spot, who gets a freewin and then faces DeathEnD in the third round and GoOdy in the 4th, who came in from the bottom of the bracket, because the bracket suddenly stopped after his match. Everything seems a bit buggy there.
if Sen is invited, then who are the 4 invited players really?
Didn't see that; when I checked LP earlier, it still said Sen. Now it says, Sen didn't respond to madals and thus his spot goes to the next in line. So I guess Snute, Bunny, Nerchio and Scarlett.
so Sen didnt respond (to a tweet or a ?) or did he actually get in contact and Sen declined lol?
cause after all Sen's first language isnt English...
if Sen is invited, then who are the 4 invited players really?
Didn't see that; when I checked LP earlier, it still said Sen. Now it says, Sen didn't respond to madals and thus his spot goes to the next in line. So I guess Snute, Bunny, Nerchio and Scarlett.
so Sen didnt respond (to a tweet or a ?) or did he actually get in contact and Sen declined lol?
cause after all Sen's first language isnt English...
How would I know? I am just giving out info from LP, I'm not an admin or something. But back to the bracket: Also how is DMC already qualified (according to LP) with only being in the semis? That seems weird again.
if Sen is invited, then who are the 4 invited players really?
Didn't see that; when I checked LP earlier, it still said Sen. Now it says, Sen didn't respond to madals and thus his spot goes to the next in line. So I guess Snute, Bunny, Nerchio and Scarlett.
so Sen didnt respond (to a tweet or a ?) or did he actually get in contact and Sen declined lol?
cause after all Sen's first language isnt English...
Iirc I saw the other week Madals tweeting requiring help in getting in contact with him. Said he had tried Skype/e-mail/twitter etc.
To clarify, I tried repeatedly contacted Sen through Skype, Twitter, Facebook and his manager on multiple occasions. No time did I get a response. I couldn't do much more than that, and waiting for a few weeks
Binarybeast is a mess with tournaments with more that 32 participants. The seeding is tedious, and the bracket creation has these annoying bugs mentioned here and visible on the qualifier bracket. The errors can't be fixed by hand, and only way is to redo it and hope people haven't started their matches already. And there is no preview on the bracket either, it's published right way. Binarybeast is a good site for smaller events, but for big (open) ones it is just unreliable.
Pleased to say that Rotterdam will be joining me for the main event on the 8th and 9th Oct! Still arranging a co-caster for the 10th but will keep you all psoted!
I'm a great fan of Scarlett - she simply rocks :D And i can't wait until this evening to watch the matches. But so happy I am - is this schedule not a little bit unfair? Most players have 5 matches, but Bly have only 4 and Scarlett have 6?
So why she have to fight more match-ups? Ah... now i understand the comment by hg2g2. Indeed - Day 2 should be Bly vs. Bunny
On October 08 2014 19:05 thebestien wrote: I'm a great fan of Scarlett - she simply rocks :D And i can't wait until this evening to watch the matches. But so happy I am - is this schedule not a little bit unfair? Most players have 5 matches, but Bly have only 4 and Scarlett have 6?
So why she have to fight more match-ups? Ah... now i understand the comment by hg2g2. Indeed - Day 2 should be Bly vs. Bunny
There is an error on that graphic - the schedule has been adjusted and i will update the graphic today when I get a chance! Just busy at the moment prepping!
On October 09 2014 19:22 ZikMoZ wrote: So sad that this is already over, Scarlett won over Snute and Bunny so we all know she i gonna be the winner nice play by her But bad format i guess
There is a GRAND FINAL between #1 and #2, so the fat lady didn t sing so far
So isn't this Bunny guy pretty good in TvZ? That means Scarlett is back in shape! It means she has a shot at taking down Heart! By the same logic, she beat Snute so she can beat Hyun! iknowonlinecupsdon'tmeanshit but HEY I want to believe in the Scarlett vs Bomber dream finals!!
On October 09 2014 19:22 ZikMoZ wrote: So sad that this is already over, Scarlett won over Snute and Bunny so we all know she i gonna be the winner nice play by her But bad format i guess
There is a GRAND FINAL between #1 and #2, so the fat lady didn t sing so far
Awesome did not know that :D thanks, hope Bunny will get number 2, so we can have a nice ZvT, would be awesome
Oh, I see now that it is listed under "upcoming events", complete with a countdown. This means that I wasted my second post ever on TL to ask a somewhat unncesseary question. Oh well...
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CjQ5f2n.png)
Madals ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pc4Bvxi.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zg6E4DD.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JWIFED7.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8KVJEvX.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/deNTrKH.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HTY3d5i.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bFBrlxJ.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CRgcO8m.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X8QiAEt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TbxrNIz.jpg)
, that way you support sponsors 
The Foreign Hope
