• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:21
CEST 22:21
KST 05:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202538Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder9EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins EWC 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Interview with Chris "ChanmanV" Chan Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Classic: "It's a thick wall to break through to become world champ"
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? BW General Discussion Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 670 users

[DreamHack] Bucharest Day 2 Bracket Stages 2014 - Page 45

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 350 Next
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
April 27 2014 10:55 GMT
#881
uk DreamHackSC2                                uk Nathanias
(T)TY 1 - 2 (P)MC                                (T)Ryung 1 - 2 (Z)Impact
(Z)Zanster 0 - 1 (Z)Jaedong LIVE        (Z)HyuN 0 - 2 (Z)Snute
(T)INnoVation vs (P)Welmu                    (P)ToD vs (T)Bunny LIVE
(Z)Leenock vs (Z)Life                          (T)jjakji vs (P)StarDust
Community News
TL+ Member
Rollora
Profile Joined February 2012
2450 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#882
On April 27 2014 19:49 SatedSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:40 Rollora wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:27 YyapSsap wrote:
Protoss is very good against terrans these days.

If you say so.

you cannot balance the game around winrates cause it just doesn't reflect the players skill therefore not balance. If you make a ladder system, that ranks you up and down depending on your winrate, ofc you'll always have 50% winrate and therefore are "balanced", although you may be only 5 years old and press the same button all over again, and the other player is a 20 yo korean pro. So would that be balance?
Winrates don't prove anything by themself.

They're not ladder win-rates. They're tournament win-rates.

If you prefer then you can look at the performance chart below the win-rates. It shows how well players are performing compared to what their Aligulac ratings predict. It's pretty accurate, as you can see from the ridiculously consistent period of "over-performance" Zerg players have on that chart during the BL/Infestor era. None of the races are currently "over-performing" consistently, which I think is a good indicator of balance.

Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:42 pure.Wasted wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:35 SatedSC2 wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:31 pure.Wasted wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:27 YyapSsap wrote:
Protoss is very good against terrans these days.

If you say so.


Why don't you pull out David Kim's balance numbers while you're at it.

You realize that if the game is down to just Maru being able to compete, as long as he can beat D-level Protoss in "really really close games" it's going to be 50/50, right?

Aligulac tracks pretty much all tournament results. It is far from MaruvP.


Yes, but there aren't as many Terrans to track!!! When MMA makes a deep tournament run beating up 10 crappy foreign Protoss and Zerg in the process, Terran win percentage is artificially inflated! There are not as many crappy foreign Terrans to beat up. PvT winrate does not get inflated the same way. The Maru example was just a simplification of what is going on, there are fewer Terrans and this skews the balance numbers like craaazy.

700+ games is plenty of games. It's across a wide variety of skill ranges and comes only from tournaments. Please don't try to make a sample size argument again.

like I said. it doesnt matter if the winrates are from ladder or tourney, if one race is easier to play this will also make tournament wins, right? and if you get to tournament because the races are balanced around 50% winrate, not what you do while winning (like APM but not in the ingame way, like REAL actions you need to use for the win), it doesn't matter. The game will always have 50% with this system. Tournament or ladder doesn't matter cause you get promoted to the tournament because of the winrate based balance system that is simply wrong.
As stated, if you get to korean GM and later to Code S with like lesser effort, you will also get through tournaments with lesser effort but also only with a 50% winrate because others that advanced so far are there because of their 50% winrate - even though more effort put into the games. So the winrate based system is just not right alone
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#883
did snute seriously 2-0 hyun? rofl
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#884
--- Nuked ---
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#885
omg leenock vs life *orgasm*
Scrubwave
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland1786 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#886
--- Nuked ---
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#887
I like that overseer dancing in the pack of Brood Lord cocoons
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#888
On April 27 2014 19:55 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote:
Behold. What the development team envision HOTS ZvZ to be


at least it's not BW ZvZ


Whats wrong with BW ZvZ? That was pure skill minus the occasional hive tech games.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8516 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#889
On April 27 2014 19:55 Shellshock wrote:
Bunny vs ToDjwa starting on Nathanias



sold. That ZvZ went from awesome to quite silly rather quickly.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#890
This is really the European Zerg style at its finest.
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#891
On April 27 2014 19:57 YyapSsap wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:55 Heartland wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote:
Behold. What the development team envision HOTS ZvZ to be


at least it's not BW ZvZ


Whats wrong with BW ZvZ? That was pure skill minus the occasional hive tech games.


Just the same thing over and over and over.
Gnusnu
Profile Joined December 2009
United States118 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-27 10:58:33
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#892
I know this has been said a billion times, but I wonder if the sc2 developers anticipated swarm hosts being built against other zerg players. Bit of an oversight there.
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#893
KANG DONG HYUUUUN
Community News
TL+ Member
NaldoR
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore2198 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#894
This game is kinda dumb. But artosis incontrol casting is just so good
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#895
On April 27 2014 19:56 Dodgin wrote:
did snute seriously 2-0 hyun? rofl

snute is hyun's cryptonite
http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=snute
hyun&event=&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&op=Search
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18407 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#896
Jaedong has more gas than Zanster has minerals+gas ...
Scrubwave
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland1786 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#897
--- Nuked ---
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#898
I feel like jaedong doesn't realize locusts are about x10 as strong as broodlings
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#899
ZANSTER!
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
April 27 2014 10:59 GMT
#900
Gogo Yoan Merlo !
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 350 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Playoff - Day 2/2 - Final
Mihu vs BonythLIVE!
ZZZero.O459
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 361
BRAT_OK 103
CosmosSc2 56
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 459
Larva 248
firebathero 130
ggaemo 108
Aegong 31
Terrorterran 17
Dota 2
capcasts170
League of Legends
JimRising 104
Reynor81
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1196
flusha516
byalli480
oskar359
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu655
Khaldor624
Other Games
tarik_tv11422
Grubby3186
summit1g2201
fl0m1202
B2W.Neo997
420jenkins439
mouzStarbuck229
Sick36
JuggernautJason35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1557
StarCraft 2
angryscii 25
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH218
• StrangeGG 88
• davetesta77
• HeavenSC 56
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix13
• 80smullet 12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21636
League of Legends
• Doublelift3109
Other Games
• imaqtpie1453
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
14h 39m
OSC
1d 3h
Stormgate Nexus
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.