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[DreamHack] Bucharest Day 2 Bracket Stages 2014 - Page 45

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
April 27 2014 10:55 GMT
#881
uk DreamHackSC2                                uk Nathanias
(T)TY 1 - 2 (P)MC                                (T)Ryung 1 - 2 (Z)Impact
(Z)Zanster 0 - 1 (Z)Jaedong LIVE        (Z)HyuN 0 - 2 (Z)Snute
(T)INnoVation vs (P)Welmu                    (P)ToD vs (T)Bunny LIVE
(Z)Leenock vs (Z)Life                          (T)jjakji vs (P)StarDust
Community News
TL+ Member
Rollora
Profile Joined February 2012
2450 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#882
On April 27 2014 19:49 SatedSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:40 Rollora wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:27 YyapSsap wrote:
Protoss is very good against terrans these days.

If you say so.

you cannot balance the game around winrates cause it just doesn't reflect the players skill therefore not balance. If you make a ladder system, that ranks you up and down depending on your winrate, ofc you'll always have 50% winrate and therefore are "balanced", although you may be only 5 years old and press the same button all over again, and the other player is a 20 yo korean pro. So would that be balance?
Winrates don't prove anything by themself.

They're not ladder win-rates. They're tournament win-rates.

If you prefer then you can look at the performance chart below the win-rates. It shows how well players are performing compared to what their Aligulac ratings predict. It's pretty accurate, as you can see from the ridiculously consistent period of "over-performance" Zerg players have on that chart during the BL/Infestor era. None of the races are currently "over-performing" consistently, which I think is a good indicator of balance.

Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:42 pure.Wasted wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:35 SatedSC2 wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:31 pure.Wasted wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:27 YyapSsap wrote:
Protoss is very good against terrans these days.

If you say so.


Why don't you pull out David Kim's balance numbers while you're at it.

You realize that if the game is down to just Maru being able to compete, as long as he can beat D-level Protoss in "really really close games" it's going to be 50/50, right?

Aligulac tracks pretty much all tournament results. It is far from MaruvP.


Yes, but there aren't as many Terrans to track!!! When MMA makes a deep tournament run beating up 10 crappy foreign Protoss and Zerg in the process, Terran win percentage is artificially inflated! There are not as many crappy foreign Terrans to beat up. PvT winrate does not get inflated the same way. The Maru example was just a simplification of what is going on, there are fewer Terrans and this skews the balance numbers like craaazy.

700+ games is plenty of games. It's across a wide variety of skill ranges and comes only from tournaments. Please don't try to make a sample size argument again.

like I said. it doesnt matter if the winrates are from ladder or tourney, if one race is easier to play this will also make tournament wins, right? and if you get to tournament because the races are balanced around 50% winrate, not what you do while winning (like APM but not in the ingame way, like REAL actions you need to use for the win), it doesn't matter. The game will always have 50% with this system. Tournament or ladder doesn't matter cause you get promoted to the tournament because of the winrate based balance system that is simply wrong.
As stated, if you get to korean GM and later to Code S with like lesser effort, you will also get through tournaments with lesser effort but also only with a 50% winrate because others that advanced so far are there because of their 50% winrate - even though more effort put into the games. So the winrate based system is just not right alone
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#883
did snute seriously 2-0 hyun? rofl
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#884
--- Nuked ---
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24604 Posts
April 27 2014 10:56 GMT
#885
omg leenock vs life *orgasm*
Scrubwave
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland1786 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#886
--- Nuked ---
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97277 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#887
I like that overseer dancing in the pack of Brood Lord cocoons
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#888
On April 27 2014 19:55 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote:
Behold. What the development team envision HOTS ZvZ to be


at least it's not BW ZvZ


Whats wrong with BW ZvZ? That was pure skill minus the occasional hive tech games.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8778 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#889
On April 27 2014 19:55 Shellshock wrote:
Bunny vs ToDjwa starting on Nathanias



sold. That ZvZ went from awesome to quite silly rather quickly.
fawns over the new helipad's rave reviews.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#890
This is really the European Zerg style at its finest.
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24604 Posts
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#891
On April 27 2014 19:57 YyapSsap wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2014 19:55 Heartland wrote:
On April 27 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote:
Behold. What the development team envision HOTS ZvZ to be


at least it's not BW ZvZ


Whats wrong with BW ZvZ? That was pure skill minus the occasional hive tech games.


Just the same thing over and over and over.
Gnusnu
Profile Joined December 2009
United States118 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-27 10:58:33
April 27 2014 10:57 GMT
#892
I know this has been said a billion times, but I wonder if the sc2 developers anticipated swarm hosts being built against other zerg players. Bit of an oversight there.
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#893
KANG DONG HYUUUUN
Community News
TL+ Member
NaldoR
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore2198 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#894
This game is kinda dumb. But artosis incontrol casting is just so good
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#895
On April 27 2014 19:56 Dodgin wrote:
did snute seriously 2-0 hyun? rofl

snute is hyun's cryptonite
http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=snute
hyun&event=&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&op=Search
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18775 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#896
Jaedong has more gas than Zanster has minerals+gas ...
Scrubwave
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland1786 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#897
--- Nuked ---
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#898
I feel like jaedong doesn't realize locusts are about x10 as strong as broodlings
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24604 Posts
April 27 2014 10:58 GMT
#899
ZANSTER!
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
April 27 2014 10:59 GMT
#900
Gogo Yoan Merlo !
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
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