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Lorning
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Belgica34432 Posts
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Rollora
2450 Posts
On April 27 2014 19:49 SatedSC2 wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2014 19:40 Rollora wrote: On April 27 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote: On April 27 2014 19:27 YyapSsap wrote: Protoss is very good against terrans these days. If you say so. you cannot balance the game around winrates cause it just doesn't reflect the players skill therefore not balance. If you make a ladder system, that ranks you up and down depending on your winrate, ofc you'll always have 50% winrate and therefore are "balanced", although you may be only 5 years old and press the same button all over again, and the other player is a 20 yo korean pro. So would that be balance? Winrates don't prove anything by themself. They're not ladder win-rates. They're tournament win-rates. If you prefer then you can look at the performance chart below the win-rates. It shows how well players are performing compared to what their Aligulac ratings predict. It's pretty accurate, as you can see from the ridiculously consistent period of "over-performance" Zerg players have on that chart during the BL/Infestor era. None of the races are currently "over-performing" consistently, which I think is a good indicator of balance. Show nested quote + On April 27 2014 19:42 pure.Wasted wrote: On April 27 2014 19:35 SatedSC2 wrote: On April 27 2014 19:31 pure.Wasted wrote: On April 27 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote: On April 27 2014 19:27 YyapSsap wrote: Protoss is very good against terrans these days. If you say so. Why don't you pull out David Kim's balance numbers while you're at it. You realize that if the game is down to just Maru being able to compete, as long as he can beat D-level Protoss in "really really close games" it's going to be 50/50, right? Aligulac tracks pretty much all tournament results. It is far from MaruvP. Yes, but there aren't as many Terrans to track!!! When MMA makes a deep tournament run beating up 10 crappy foreign Protoss and Zerg in the process, Terran win percentage is artificially inflated! There are not as many crappy foreign Terrans to beat up. PvT winrate does not get inflated the same way. The Maru example was just a simplification of what is going on, there are fewer Terrans and this skews the balance numbers like craaazy. 700+ games is plenty of games. It's across a wide variety of skill ranges and comes only from tournaments. Please don't try to make a sample size argument again. like I said. it doesnt matter if the winrates are from ladder or tourney, if one race is easier to play this will also make tournament wins, right? and if you get to tournament because the races are balanced around 50% winrate, not what you do while winning (like APM but not in the ingame way, like REAL actions you need to use for the win), it doesn't matter. The game will always have 50% with this system. Tournament or ladder doesn't matter cause you get promoted to the tournament because of the winrate based balance system that is simply wrong. As stated, if you get to korean GM and later to Code S with like lesser effort, you will also get through tournaments with lesser effort but also only with a 50% winrate because others that advanced so far are there because of their 50% winrate - even though more effort put into the games. So the winrate based system is just not right alone | ||
Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On April 27 2014 19:55 Heartland wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote: Behold. What the development team envision HOTS ZvZ to be ![]() at least it's not BW ZvZ Whats wrong with BW ZvZ? That was pure skill minus the occasional hive tech games. | ||
Doublemint
Austria8439 Posts
On April 27 2014 19:55 Shellshock wrote: ![]() ![]() sold. That ZvZ went from awesome to quite silly rather quickly. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
On April 27 2014 19:57 YyapSsap wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2014 19:55 Heartland wrote: On April 27 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote: Behold. What the development team envision HOTS ZvZ to be ![]() at least it's not BW ZvZ Whats wrong with BW ZvZ? That was pure skill minus the occasional hive tech games. Just the same thing over and over and over. | ||
Gnusnu
United States118 Posts
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Lorning
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Belgica34432 Posts
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NaldoR
Singapore2198 Posts
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Undead1993
Germany17651 Posts
On April 27 2014 19:56 Dodgin wrote: did snute seriously 2-0 hyun? rofl snute is hyun's cryptonite http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=snute hyun&event=&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&op=Search | ||
sharkie
Austria18341 Posts
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
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