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United States97276 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OYhsGUT.jpg) Friday, May 03 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_America/Premier TL Preview: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410260
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png) Casters: Axeltoss & Axslav ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png) WCS America
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png) ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/2/25/Cl.png)  KiLLeR vs. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Kr.png)  aLiveStarting map: Whirlwind  HerO vs. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/6/62/Mx.png) MajOrStarting map: Neo Planet S
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png) + Show Spoiler [Spoiler-Free] ++ Show Spoiler [Overall Results] +
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l5YZ8.png) + Show Spoiler +
KiLLeR vs. aLive Game 1
KiLLeR vs. aLive Game 2
KiLLeR vs. aLive Game 3
HerO vs. MajOr Game 1
HerO vs. MajOr Game 2
HerO vs. MajOr Game 3
Winners' Match Game 1
Winners' Match Game 2
Winners' Match Game 3
Losers' Match Game 1
Losers' Match Game 2
Losers' Match Game 3
Final Match Game 1
Final Match Game 2
Final Match Game 3
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png) + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [KiLLeR vs. aLive] +Poll: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 1?If you have time (4) 44% Yes (3) 33% No (2) 22% 9 total votes Your vote: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 2?No (6) 75% Yes (1) 13% If you have time (1) 13% 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 3?Yes (9) 64% No (3) 21% If you have time (2) 14% 14 total votes Your vote: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 1?Yes (10) 91% If you have time (1) 9% No (0) 0% 11 total votes Your vote: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 2?If you have time (4) 50% Yes (3) 38% No (1) 13% 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 3?Yes (3) 60% No (1) 20% If you have time (1) 20% 5 total votes Your vote: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match game 1?Yes (2) 50% If you have time (2) 50% No (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match game 2?Yes (13) 93% If you have time (1) 7% No (0) 0% 14 total votes Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match game 3?If you have time (7) 78% Yes (2) 22% No (0) 0% 9 total votes Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 1?Yes (3) 50% If you have time (2) 33% No (1) 17% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 2?No (4) 100% Yes (0) 0% If you have time (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 3?Yes (5) 83% If you have time (1) 17% No (0) 0% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Final Match game 1?If you have time (3) 75% No (1) 25% Yes (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Final Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Head?aLive & HerO (30) 71% KiLLeR & HerO (4) 10% HerO & MajOr (3) 7% KiLLeR & MajOr (2) 5% aLive & MajOr (2) 5% KiLLeR & aLive (1) 2% 42 total votes Your vote: Head? (Vote): KiLLeR & aLive
(Vote): KiLLeR & HerO
(Vote): KiLLeR & MajOr
(Vote): aLive & HerO
(Vote): aLive & MajOr
(Vote): HerO & MajOr
Poll: Heart?HerO & MajOr (14) 35% aLive & HerO (13) 33% KiLLeR & MajOr (6) 15% aLive & MajOr (4) 10% KiLLeR & HerO (2) 5% KiLLeR & aLive (1) 3% 40 total votes Your vote: Heart? (Vote): KiLLeR & aLive
(Vote): KiLLeR & HerO
(Vote): KiLLeR & MajOr
(Vote): aLive & HerO
(Vote): aLive & MajOr
(Vote): HerO & MajOr
Poll: If you had to pick one, which name would you rather go by?Colin (20) 63% Coran (12) 38% 32 total votes Your vote: If you had to pick one, which name would you rather go by? (Vote): Coran
(Vote): Colin
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Bisutopia19225 Posts
Will be awesome to see Major play some games!!!!!! EG vs TL for tonight the unholy alliance is void!!!!!
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Major might have a chance to take a map off aLive or HerO, but I doubt he can win a whole series. I hope he proves me wrong though!
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Alive/Hero to make it out, it would be nice to see Major do well.
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the best two southamerican players in the same group  i hope at least one pass
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aLive 1st, MajOr to upset HerO and take 2nd!
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United States23455 Posts
There is so much fucking awesome Starcraft going on. You know what I did today? I watched KR WCS group of death before work. I went to work and followed the LR thread for Europe for their very own group of death. I tuned in to see TB do the group selection for Shoutcraft NA which I am so hyped about. I plan to watch WCS America and maybe some SoTG tonight, who knows? This amount of Starcraft makes me ridiculously happy.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:01 Topin wrote:the best two southamerican players in the same group i hope at least one pass
but Mexico is in North America D:
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United States23455 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:02 RPR_Tempest wrote:
aLive 1st, MajOr to upset HerO and take 2nd!
With all due respect... NEVA! HerO to dominate with first and aLive and Major to duke it out for second  !
For shame, wearing a TL team tag and voting against a Liquidian!
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On May 03 2013 09:06 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:01 Topin wrote:the best two southamerican players in the same group i hope at least one pass but Mexico is in North America D:
hahaha you got me
the best two latin american players in the same group i hope at least one pass
fixed ♥
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Who's Colin/Coran?
Colin is the better name btw.
HerO/Alive gon win
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Killer and Major are both players who could upset against KR opponents. Sadly they are in a group with some of the best Koreans in WCS NA.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:07 Topin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:06 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 09:01 Topin wrote:the best two southamerican players in the same group i hope at least one pass but Mexico is in North America D: hahaha you got me the best two latin american players in the same group i hope at least one pass fixed ♥
 haha. Yeah it would be really good to see one of them get out!
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On May 03 2013 09:09 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:07 Topin wrote:On May 03 2013 09:06 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 09:01 Topin wrote:the best two southamerican players in the same group i hope at least one pass but Mexico is in North America D: hahaha you got me the best two latin american players in the same group i hope at least one pass fixed ♥ haha. Yeah it would be really good to see one of them get out!
KiLLeR has been training in the CG house IIRC so i believe!
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United States97276 Posts
Aligulac prediction for the first match
(1337) KiLLeR 0-0 aLive (1473)
-----------------------------------------
19.47% 2-0 0-2 31.23%
21.75% 2-1 1-2 27.55%
-----------------------------------------
41.22% 58.78%
Median outcome: KiLLeR 1-2 aLive
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should be easy games for alive and hero, really excited to see how major plays after his training though
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Please zergs start splitting your banelings a bit.
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Damn in WoL that surround would have been really nice, caught aLive by surprise. Widow mines completely change how you have to engage in ZvT :o
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On May 03 2013 09:07 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:02 RPR_Tempest wrote:
aLive 1st, MajOr to upset HerO and take 2nd! With all due respect... NEVA! HerO to dominate with first and aLive and Major to duke it out for second ! For shame, wearing a TL team tag and voting against a Liquidian!
My foreign pride comes before my team pride!
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United States97276 Posts
collectors edition ultras. alive should gg. too strong
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On May 03 2013 09:23 Shellshock1122 wrote:collectors edition ultras. alive should gg. too strong
Glowing tusks and shit. :o
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It seems like the best way to fight a terran is not engage his army haha. That was the best move Killer was able to make all game.
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that ultralisk skin is pretty neat. Not worth collector's edition though
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Not a bad game by Killer, but Alive just too stronk.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 1?If you have time (4) 44% Yes (3) 33% No (2) 22% 9 total votes Your vote: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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Koreans beating foreigners, no surprise here.
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The first time I saw the Ultralisk skin while playing I was thinking " wtf is this unit "
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Killer played well, if he had static defense (which u need against T on this map) he could've done better. A good showing.
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United States97276 Posts
Killer should just all in. alive has no units
damn that scan probably saved him
oops nvm
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 2?No (6) 75% Yes (1) 13% If you have time (1) 13% 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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United States23455 Posts
Very strange aLive didnt react better to that attack...
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Good scan and then transition into losing the game.
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alive, pull your scvs into the main, lift your orbital, turtle up, cmon.
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aLive just went full foreigner.
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the widow mines blocked the depot from raising and he lost because of that. pretty sure.
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That was a terrible reaction by aLive after the scan, super unreacted, and couldnt lift depot prob due to mine burrow. Full Foreigner there.
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Foreigners beating Koreans, surprise there.
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United States97276 Posts
I hope Coach Park was watching. I wonder what he has to say about that.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:40 -_- wrote:
are these games live?
yes
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On May 03 2013 09:40 -_- wrote:
are these games live?
Yes.
I still really dislike ad breaks between games, just have it between series and let the commentators talk more about map picks/player histories w/e.
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late repair this is not looking good for alive
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United States97276 Posts
LOL aLive what is this? hahahahaha
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tries to hold low ground. doesn't pull SCVs for repair.
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Axlav summed it up best.
"Has aLive not seen roaches before ?"
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first foreigner upset incoming
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aLive is just going full foreigner, sees Roaches and dont pull SCV's to the bunker until it is down.
Seriously this guy, is playing like the best foreigner.
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Alive goes full foreigner.
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aLive................. wtf he saw the roaches...............
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Alive scouted that fully... so... why...
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KiLLeR has gained a fan. Nice mind game.
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On May 03 2013 09:48 Dodgin wrote:
first foreigner upset incoming
we can still have 2 koreans advance lol
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:49 Die4Ever wrote:we can still have 2 koreans advance lol
baby steps for WCS AM please
at least we had an american win a series vs a non american yesterday
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United States23455 Posts
Man why the hell is aLive down 50 supply I missed the early game.
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On May 03 2013 09:50 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:49 Die4Ever wrote:On May 03 2013 09:48 Dodgin wrote:
first foreigner upset incoming we can still have 2 koreans advance lol baby steps for WCS AM please
Yeah a series win against a Korean is big
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:51 Darkhoarse wrote:
Man why the hell is aLive down 50 supply I missed the early game.
Killer went for a quick roach attack and aLive decided not to respond and took a bunch of damage
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Damn, very impressive from KiLLeR.
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Haha, Killer must be one of the biggest "sleepers" in the scene. No one talks about or expects anything from him but he always makes a solid showing whenever he attends an MLG or IEM.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 3?Yes (9) 64% No (3) 21% If you have time (2) 14% 14 total votes Your vote: Recommend KiLLeR vs aLive game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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United States23455 Posts
Man WTF is aLive doing to lose to Killer? He's playing horribly
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hahahahahah oh alive that's embarassing
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Killer looking really good
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Killer hero of the foreigners! USA USA USA
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aLive playing just awful. Pull scvs from natural and try to hold at the main ramp...
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United States23455 Posts
I feel like if aLive plays Killer again he will be ready for some roach attack... right? seems like he should be aware of this by now.
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Oh man I did not expect KiLLeR to pull that series off. I don't think anyone did really. good for him and gogo Chile!
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some players can elevate their play to match their opponent, and some unfortunately drop to their opponents level...
I'd say Killer and Alive met about halfway on that one.
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KiLLeR has to be the most underated player in the world
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United States97276 Posts
aLive won game 1 so easily I guess he thought he didnt have to play the rest of the series? pretty embarrassing play in games 2 and 3 just not reacting to anything at all after scouting
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Meh Alive played so bad. He just had to take his natural in his main, build some mines and it would have been ok. Instead he built 2 hellions and tried to defend a bad spot with only 4 marines in a bunker.
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On May 03 2013 09:53 Popkiller wrote:
some players can elevate their play to match their opponent, and some drop to their opponents level...
I feel like they met at some middle ground...
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Seriously, was that lag that delayed that defense? Then again, those SCVs were about a two full seconds late.
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IPL4 winner right there...
Well done Killer, certainly played better in this series.
On May 03 2013 09:54 Leporello wrote:
Seriously, was that lag that delayed that defense? Then again, those SCVs were about a two full seconds late.
You can't even begin to blame that on lag, he scouted the roaches when they were moving out from Killer's base. Where else were they gonna go, take a vacation on Bel'shir Beach? He basically had a 20 second warning to pull SCVs and did it when the bunker was already down.
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On May 03 2013 09:54 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:53 Popkiller wrote:
some players can elevate their play to match their opponent, and some drop to their opponents level... I feel like they met at some middle ground...
ha! just made that edit.
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vamos killer ctm!!! (gogoog killer godamit ) xDDDD
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Time for Major to stomp Hero and then Killer.
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Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want?
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On May 03 2013 09:56 Bagi wrote:
Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want?
a foreigner to beat a Korean who is playing well, duhhh
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On May 03 2013 09:55 StarVe wrote:IPL4 winner right there... Well done Killer, certainly played better in this series. Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:54 Leporello wrote:
Seriously, was that lag that delayed that defense? Then again, those SCVs were about a two full seconds late. You can't even begin to blame that on lag, he scouted the roaches when they were moving out from Killer's base. Where else were they gonna go, take a vacation on Bel'shir Beach? He basically had a 20 second warning to pull SCVs and did it when the bunker was already down.
So what you're saying is theres 20+ second delay from Korea?!?!?!
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 09:59 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:55 StarVe wrote:IPL4 winner right there... Well done Killer, certainly played better in this series. On May 03 2013 09:54 Leporello wrote:
Seriously, was that lag that delayed that defense? Then again, those SCVs were about a two full seconds late. You can't even begin to blame that on lag, he scouted the roaches when they were moving out from Killer's base. Where else were they gonna go, take a vacation on Bel'shir Beach? He basically had a 20 second warning to pull SCVs and did it when the bunker was already down. So what you're saying is theres 20+ second delay from Korea?!?!?!
JYP came to watch the games and accidentally touched alive's shoulder after game 1
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On May 03 2013 09:57 Popkiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:56 Bagi wrote:
Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want? a foreigner to beat a Korean who is playing well, duhhh
^This!!
Not dat hard to realize aLive actually played really bad.
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On May 03 2013 09:57 Popkiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:56 Bagi wrote:
Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want? a foreigner to beat a Korean who is playing well, duhhh
People here would never admit a Korean played well if he was beaten by a foreigner.
GJ Killer. Now it's up to Major to make sure one of the Koreans gets eliminated.
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first foreigner to beat korean?
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:01 lim1017 wrote:
first foreigner to beat korean?
In WCS AM, yes. Minigun so close :/ There were a few Korean losses in WCS EU
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pretty bad that Major has to go through both Alive and Hero to get to Ro16, considering some of the crappy competition other players have to deal with. one of the better NA players and we try to make sure he can't advance.
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On May 03 2013 10:01 lim1017 wrote:
first foreigner to beat korean?
In WCS America yes
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On May 03 2013 10:00 Champloo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:57 Popkiller wrote:On May 03 2013 09:56 Bagi wrote:
Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want? a foreigner to beat a Korean who is playing well, duhhh People here would never admit a Korean played well if he was beaten by a foreigner. GJ Killer. Now it's up to Major to make sure one of the Koreans gets eliminated.
No, people will admit it, Alive just played really badly.
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On May 03 2013 10:00 Champloo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:57 Popkiller wrote:On May 03 2013 09:56 Bagi wrote:
Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want? a foreigner to beat a Korean who is playing well, duhhh People here would never admit a Korean played well if he was beaten by a foreigner. GJ Killer. Now it's up to Major to make sure one of the Koreans gets eliminated.
Naniwa actually had a great run vs Jaedong 1 week ago.
So no, people does admit it, but if you know anything of StarCraft 2 then you can realize aLive played terribad.
Still congrats to Killer.
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United States23455 Posts
True Life: I sometimes get so nervous when HerO is playing that I turn off the stream and wait for his match to be over.
Anyway I think he should have Major fairly handily but stranger things have happened...
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United States97276 Posts
Did anyone see the SPL special match MajOr vs Terminator? How competitive was MajOr? I haven't seen him play in months
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Did MLG change their policy or is this series played on NA?
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:04 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Did MLG change their policy or is this series played on NA?
I didnt see any updates in that thread so afaik it's still NA
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Just tuned in and wdf is this? alive lost.. this is madness.
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On May 03 2013 10:03 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:00 Champloo wrote:On May 03 2013 09:57 Popkiller wrote:On May 03 2013 09:56 Bagi wrote:
Love how a foreigner finally beats a Korean in WCS NA and all people do is bitch about how badly the Korean played.
What do you people want? a foreigner to beat a Korean who is playing well, duhhh People here would never admit a Korean played well if he was beaten by a foreigner. GJ Killer. Now it's up to Major to make sure one of the Koreans gets eliminated. No, people will admit it, Alive just played really badly.
Still funny because people usually like to complain about the skill level shown in the WCS NA games and here it was basically the Korean dragging the skill level down.^^
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United States23455 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:06 GWdeathscythe wrote:
Just tuned in and wdf is this? alive lost.. this is madness.
aLive played absolutely awfully in G2 and G3
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Hero sloppy. Major looks better here. KeSPA training pays off.
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United States97276 Posts
can we all do kespa cheers if MajOr wins?
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major with the sick micro
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doesn't look like it's on na server to me 
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Haha.
- "Can Major identify this and hit this window"
- "It's gone."
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Major is looking good right now
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On May 03 2013 10:09 Alejandrisha wrote:doesn't look like it's on na server to me
So major complaints addressed?
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really want major to win, hes been working so hard
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On May 03 2013 10:09 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:09 Alejandrisha wrote:doesn't look like it's on na server to me So major complaints addressed?
no just cute micro haha
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United States23455 Posts
HerO has been training just as hard if not harder than Major... He's been training with Coach Park for Proleague...
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I have way too much trouble seeing the production bars. Is this gameheart? They really need to be changed. Normal is way better.
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I'm amazed they're both having these reaction times with Kr to NA lag.
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Looks like NA server, those storms...
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On May 03 2013 10:11 -_- wrote:
I have way too much trouble seeing the production bars. Is this gameheart? They really need to be changed. Normal is way better.
Pretty sure it's not. Maybe it's the default one from Blizzard?
Anyway, that was a cool, multi-stage fight.
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major seems a lot better than the last time I saw him play
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Can they please get a high quality observer for these games? I mean, if you don't like the casting, you can mute. If the observing isn't good...there is no alternative except...mp3s? MLG just refuses to do this and it is frustrating for the studio shows. Maybe its too expensive, I dunno.
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On May 03 2013 10:12 StarVe wrote:
Looks like NA server, those storms...
Do you think it puts MajOr at a bigger disadvantage than Hero because of storm?
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:13 Dodgin wrote:
major seems a lot better than the last time I saw him play
yeah his TvP used to be pretty weak compared to his other matchups which still seemed weaker than this. KR training doing great.
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It's weird to see Terrans floating so much gas in most games, why bother setting up over 4 refineries if you aren't going to use it?
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On May 03 2013 10:14 Swords wrote:Do you think it puts MajOr at a bigger disadvantage than Hero because of storm?
If hero lands the storms then the lag affects major because he cannot split or micro quick enough.
It works against them both.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 1?Yes (10) 91% If you have time (1) 9% No (0) 0% 11 total votes Your vote: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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MajOr looked like a million bucks in that game, though.
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wow hero actually won, I thought Major was playing so well
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United States23455 Posts
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That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM
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major played pretty well there.
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I don't like those blinkstalker openings, HerO did the same at dreamhack..
glad he won though
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On May 03 2013 10:14 Swords wrote:Do you think it puts MajOr at a bigger disadvantage than Hero because of storm?
I won't try and pretend that I'm able to judge that, I don't play at that level and I never played from KR on NA
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM
Would've been better if it was on KR server.
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"If Major can somehow hold off th-"
"Major: GG"
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On May 03 2013 10:15 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's weird to see Terrans floating so much gas in most games, why bother setting up over 4 refineries if you aren't going to use it?
Well, there are mules and... mules. And mules can't get gas.
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On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM
did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good
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On May 03 2013 10:14 Swords wrote:Do you think it puts MajOr at a bigger disadvantage than Hero because of storm?
It definitely hurts MajOr more. He had a bunch of premature stims that I assume were the result of lag. Sitting in storms is almost inevitable with lag as well.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:17 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM Would've been better if it was on KR server.
go bump that thread with that quote.
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A break in-between every game is really annoying. Should do it every 2 games or series like GSL.
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On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good
No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series.
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Terran is way more "twitch" micro intensive, so yeah I would say the lag is more of an issue for Major.
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United States23455 Posts
HerO is basically the only Korean I want to see advance in WCS NA
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:17 stuchiu wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM Would've been better if it was on KR server. go bump that thread with that quote.
Nah, ppl just want to punish WCS by annoying Major and Hero. No point in convincing them about anything.
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On May 03 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series.
Totally worth going back and watching.
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On May 03 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series.
Yeah game 2 of the final series was really well played by both players
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United States23455 Posts
Guys we're supposed to make lag excuses for Koreans not Foreigners remember? Get with the program.
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I feel like if major falls to play alive he will get absolutely destroyed by Alive's TvT.
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On May 03 2013 10:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series. Totally worth going back and watching.
Who has time to watch VODs when there's live games happening all the time though!
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:20 cekkmt wrote:
I feel like if major falls to play alive he will get absolutely destroyed by Alive's TvT.
on paper he should, but aLive really needs to get his shit together after that first series.
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I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive
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On May 03 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 03 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series. Totally worth going back and watching. Who has time to watch VODs when there's live games happening all the time though!
I don't think it would be that great if you know who won, was a great game but more about the excitement/story line rather than really great plays imo
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On May 03 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 03 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series. Totally worth going back and watching. Who has time to watch VODs when there's live games happening all the time though!
WCS has pretty much created a 15 hour day of organized SC2. I realized this the other day when it was already Tuesday and everything was blending together haha
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On May 03 2013 10:19 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 10:17 stuchiu wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM Would've been better if it was on KR server. go bump that thread with that quote. Nah, ppl just want to punish WCS by annoying Major and Hero. No point in convincing them about anything.
I read about 8 pages or so and was unpleasantly surprised by the support for forcing them to play on NA. I mean..it just doesn't make any sense. At all.
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On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive
Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters.
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On May 03 2013 10:22 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On May 03 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:17 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:
That was actually probably the best game I've seen yet in WCS AM did you see illusion and moonglade yesterday? the final game was really good No I went to take a nap before GSL started, I missed that series. Totally worth going back and watching. Who has time to watch VODs when there's live games happening all the time though! WCS has pretty much created a 15 hour day of organized SC2. I realized this the other day when it was already Tuesday and everything was blending together haha
A lot of the other starcraft stuff is starting to fit around it as well, podcasts/streams seem like they are trying to avoid it all nicely. always something to watch now days and no overlap is so nice.
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On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters.
WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even.
Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals.
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And this is why the proposed Oracle buff will be ridiculous..
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On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals.
That's true, it does have better distribution. Oh man, both those oracles so close to dying..........!
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what the balls is hero doing
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Did they end up playing on NA or KR?
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well, hero certainly looked like the far superior player there
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 2?If you have time (4) 50% Yes (3) 38% No (1) 13% 8 total votes Your vote: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 3?Yes (3) 60% No (1) 20% If you have time (1) 20% 5 total votes Your vote: Recommend HerO vs MajOr game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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He got Protoss'd
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United States23455 Posts
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On May 03 2013 10:20 Darkhoarse wrote:
Guys we're supposed to make lag excuses for Koreans not Foreigners remember? Get with the program.
Well both Hero and Major are forced to play on NA server even though they both live in KR... Wtf MLG.
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well that wasn't close D: hero going to roll through to 1st now~
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On May 03 2013 10:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
what the balls is hero doing
winning
now go wreck killer
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Well Hero gets to play a foreign Zerg in the winners match, he should be a lock to make it.
I have to wonder if Alive can play better and recover.
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United States23455 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:31 kju wrote:winning now go wreck killer
fufufufuffufufuffufufu
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I think Hero and killer get out.
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On May 03 2013 10:31 Dodgin wrote:
Well Hero gets to play a foreign Zerg in the winners match, he should be a lock to make it.
I have to wonder if Alive can play better and recover.
MajOr has pretty solid TvT, right? aLive's no slouch, but he didn't look great in PL, IIRC.
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On May 03 2013 10:31 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:31 kju wrote:On May 03 2013 10:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
what the balls is hero doing winning now go wreck killer fufufufuffufufuffufufu
I want HerO to wreck Killer lol
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On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals.
I really am not sure why more Koreans didn't just try and go to WCS Europe after they found out that everyone was going to NA. I would actually say it would have been easier for them to win EU by this point then to win NA because of the people you have to go thru.
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On May 03 2013 10:33 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals. I really am not sure why more Koreans didn't just try and go to WCS Europe after they found out that everyone was going to NA. I would actually say it would have been easier for them to win EU by this point then to win NA because of the people you have to go thru.
I hear the latency makes it sort of unplayable, so unless they'd be able to move closer they might actually not do well.
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On May 03 2013 10:32 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:31 Dodgin wrote:
Well Hero gets to play a foreign Zerg in the winners match, he should be a lock to make it.
I have to wonder if Alive can play better and recover. MajOr has pretty solid TvT, right? aLive's no slouch, but he didn't look great in PL, IIRC.
Alive's TvT is still pretty amazing, but MajOr will definitely have had help to train for it from Speed/Cure and Baby/TY so he'll have a shot.
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United States23455 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:32 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:31 Dodgin wrote:
Well Hero gets to play a foreign Zerg in the winners match, he should be a lock to make it.
I have to wonder if Alive can play better and recover. MajOr has pretty solid TvT, right? aLive's no slouch, but he didn't look great in PL, IIRC.
He just beat a pretty good player in TvT Turn I believe? Still that's not to say that Major cant beat him he looked horrible against Killer. Very uncharacteristic. If aLive plays at full form I think he still advances no problem.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:33 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals. I really am not sure why more Koreans didn't just try and go to WCS Europe after they found out that everyone was going to NA. I would actually say it would have been easier for them to win EU by this point then to win NA because of the people you have to go thru.
probably a mix of the lag and the awful hours they would have to play at. It appeared to be too much for TAiLS and finale. More will probably try to qualify next season, though.
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Major should sit down and grind with Pigbaby to get his TvP up to par
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United States23455 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:33 kju wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:31 Darkhoarse wrote:On May 03 2013 10:31 kju wrote:On May 03 2013 10:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
what the balls is hero doing winning now go wreck killer fufufufuffufufuffufufu I want HerO to wreck Killer lol
Same here haha! Not anything against Killer, but I want HerO to move comfortably to ro16!
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On May 03 2013 10:33 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals. I really am not sure why more Koreans didn't just try and go to WCS Europe after they found out that everyone was going to NA. I would actually say it would have been easier for them to win EU by this point then to win NA because of the people you have to go thru.
Tell that to finale and Tails ^^
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United States97276 Posts
(1263) KiLLeR 0-0 HerO (1529)
-----------------------------------------
14.93% 2-0 0-2 37.65%
18.32% 2-1 1-2 29.10%
-----------------------------------------
33.26% 66.74%
Median outcome: KiLLeR 1-2 HerO
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[+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On May 03 2013 10:36 Shellshock1122 wrote: (1263) KiLLeR 0-0 HerO (1529)
-----------------------------------------
14.93% 2-0 0-2 37.65%
18.32% 2-1 1-2 29.10%
-----------------------------------------
33.26% 66.74%
Median outcome: KiLLeR 1-2 HerO
I am surprised killer has such a high win probability against Hero
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On May 03 2013 10:36 Shellshock1122 wrote: (1263) KiLLeR 0-0 HerO (1529)
-----------------------------------------
14.93% 2-0 0-2 37.65%
18.32% 2-1 1-2 29.10%
-----------------------------------------
33.26% 66.74%
Median outcome: KiLLeR 1-2 HerO
I'm confused. It says there is the highest chance for a 2-0 but the median outcome is 2-1?
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On May 03 2013 10:39 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:36 Shellshock1122 wrote: (1263) KiLLeR 0-0 HerO (1529)
-----------------------------------------
14.93% 2-0 0-2 37.65%
18.32% 2-1 1-2 29.10%
-----------------------------------------
33.26% 66.74%
Median outcome: KiLLeR 1-2 HerO I'm confused. It says there is the highest chance for a 2-0 but the median outcome is 2-1?
Median is the outcome that falls exactly in the middle. For it to be 2-0 HerO would need a higher than 50% probability to win 2-0.
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Is this Naniwas robo build from DH?
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as we say in chile... vamos conchatumare!
hope he can advance!!
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On May 03 2013 10:33 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals. I really am not sure why more Koreans didn't just try and go to WCS Europe after they found out that everyone was going to NA. I would actually say it would have been easier for them to win EU by this point then to win NA because of the people you have to go thru.
I've heard that the lag from KR to EU is way worse than KR to NA and basically unplayable.
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I don't understand why Photon Overcharge exists.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match game 1?Yes (2) 50% If you have time (2) 50% No (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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On May 03 2013 10:51 RPR_Tempest wrote:
I don't understand why Photon Overcharge exists.
Veiled balance whine? Really? You should know better by now
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Germany25657 Posts
HerO is pretty good at this game.
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On May 03 2013 10:33 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:24 Dodgin wrote:On May 03 2013 10:23 sparklyresidue wrote:On May 03 2013 10:21 Swords wrote:
I'll be so sad if MajOr doesn't get out of the group. Best play by an Na player I've seen yet and he gets the group with Hero and Alive Unfortunate yes, but this tournament's regionalization is kind of a joke anyway. I've given up on that and just view it as WCS American Casters or WCS European Casters. WCS EU is actually good though, since It's the best EU players and a few high class Korean players who are no longer top of Code S level. The competition over there is nice and even. Hopefully that actually comes true and It's not like Mvp and MMA wrecking everyone at the LAN event to meet in the finals. I really am not sure why more Koreans didn't just try and go to WCS Europe after they found out that everyone was going to NA. I would actually say it would have been easier for them to win EU by this point then to win NA because of the people you have to go thru.
Because there's not as many Koreans in EU teams compared to the insane amount of Koreans in NA teams.
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United States23455 Posts
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I mean, Mvp barely BARELY advanced with the kr > eu ping, a lot of lesser players would fall to top EU players in those conditions. I imagine that's why few tried it.
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On May 03 2013 10:50 heartagram wrote:
I've heard that the lag from KR to EU is way worse than KR to EU and basically unplayable.
I've heard that the lag from KR to EU is way worse than KR to NA and basically unplayable. FTFY.
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HerO plowing through this shit easily :D
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:56 Dodgin wrote:
I mean, Mvp barely BARELY advanced with the kr > eu ping, a lot of lesser players would fall to top EU players in those conditions. I imagine that's why few tried it.
It's just Mvp's long game. He's just making everyone lower their guard.
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On May 03 2013 10:56 408xParadox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 10:50 heartagram wrote:
I've heard that the lag from KR to EU is way worse than KR to EU and basically unplayable. I've heard that the lag from KR to EU is way worse than KR to NA and basically unplayable. FTFY.
ah, yea thanks.
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Feedback drop is a next-level gosu strat.
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killer looking pretty good here. I doubt he's going to win, but he acquitted himself quite well.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match game 2?Yes (13) 93% If you have time (1) 7% No (0) 0% 14 total votes Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match game 3?If you have time (7) 78% Yes (2) 22% No (0) 0% 9 total votes Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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I don't think Tempests are imbalanced, but more and more I think they are just a dumb unit , just the collosus of the air
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Loving the late game PvZ. SO many cool tech units in Hots
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Always sad to see a Zerg die with 2000 gas. o_o
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Will a foreigner advance?no (7) 70% yes (3) 30% 10 total votes Your vote: Will a foreigner advance? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
trick poll!  HerO already advanced!
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On May 03 2013 11:21 Mithridates wrote:
Loving the late game PvZ. SO many cool tech units in Hots
lol. yeah i bet it's a blast for protoss.
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im happy to see this progress in KiLLers game, with more chances im sure he can be a top players, i hope CG support him for a long time
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OMG Kung Fu Chess, that game is so amazing! I haven't played it in years though.
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On May 03 2013 11:25 Shellshock1122 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Will a foreigner advance?no (7) 70% yes (3) 30% 10 total votes Your vote: Will a foreigner advance? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
trick poll! HerO already advanced!
I knew it!
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 11:28 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:25 Shellshock1122 wrote:Poll: Will a foreigner advance?no (7) 70% yes (3) 30% 10 total votes Your vote: Will a foreigner advance? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
trick poll! HerO already advanced!  HerO would like a word with you.
you guys already gained snute. HerO is clearly the reincarnation of Nazgul
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On May 03 2013 11:28 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:25 Shellshock1122 wrote:Poll: Will a foreigner advance?no (7) 70% yes (3) 30% 10 total votes Your vote: Will a foreigner advance? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
trick poll! HerO already advanced! HerO would like a word with you.
I'm okay with us claiming hero
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I hate that MajOr has to play with lag for his games.
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On May 03 2013 11:32 Swords wrote:
I hate that MajOr has to play with lag for his games.
Alive and Hero have the same situation
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me thinks Major has a decent chance of advancing 0_0
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On May 03 2013 11:33 Yunarc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:32 Swords wrote:
I hate that MajOr has to play with lag for his games. Alive and Hero have the same situation
Yeah, I know, but I want MajOr to advance, since I think he's possibly the best NA player currently in WCS.
(I'm completely biased in other words)
That being said, I'd rather watch MajOr, HerO, and aLive all be able to play one another without any lag at all, cause those games would be great.
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For some reason I just don't want Killer to advance
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On May 03 2013 11:37 Holdenintherye wrote:
For some reason I just don't want Killer to advance
Because Clarity picked up that asshole guy who hates Incontrol?
:p
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On May 03 2013 11:37 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:33 Yunarc wrote:On May 03 2013 11:32 Swords wrote:
I hate that MajOr has to play with lag for his games. Alive and Hero have the same situation Yeah, I know, but I want MajOr to advance, since I think he's possibly the best NA player currently in WCS. (I'm completely biased in other words) That being said, I'd rather watch MajOr, HerO, and aLive all be able to play one another without any lag at all, cause those games would be great.
Yeah I agree they should not have to worry about lag
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On May 03 2013 11:39 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:37 Holdenintherye wrote:
For some reason I just don't want Killer to advance Because Clarity picked up that asshole guy who hates Incontrol? :p
wut
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On May 03 2013 11:40 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:39 Swords wrote:On May 03 2013 11:37 Holdenintherye wrote:
For some reason I just don't want Killer to advance Because Clarity picked up that asshole guy who hates Incontrol? :p wut
I don't want to go into it because this is an LR thread and unrelated, but Clarity Academy recently added a player who has a reputation for being something of an internet troll douchebag. There's more about it in the Clarity Gaming thread in SC2 General.
I haven't really kept up with all the details though, so I'd research the whole thing rather than relying on my reporting.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 1?Yes (3) 50% If you have time (2) 33% No (1) 17% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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Major only lost cause of the lag playing from korea, also it's like 4 am over there
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On May 03 2013 11:44 geokilla wrote:
Dat lag.
Lag doesn't make you make endless bad decisions, it limits control.
Major only lost cause of the lag playing from korea, also it's like 4 am over there
It's almost noon over there.
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Too many mistakes in engagement position from Major, otherwise his mechanics looking top notch.
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Ever since 2011 people have been telling me that Major is one of the best foreigners. Still waiting for him to not finish last in a tournament.
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On May 03 2013 11:45 Zenbrez wrote:Lag doesn't make you make endless bad decisions, it limits control. Show nested quote +
Major only lost cause of the lag playing from korea, also it's like 4 am over there
It's almost noon over there.
(that's the joke, lol)
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On May 03 2013 11:45 Die4Ever wrote:
Major only lost cause of the lag playing from korea, also it's like 4 am over there
It's the same for aLive though.
I do feel like MajOr's strategic choices are terrible for playing with lag though. Pounding out MMM without ghosts against storm, and then Mech vs. bio in TvT. Poor guy probably wasn't thinking MLG/Blizzard would lower the game quality for no good reason.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 11:44 Shellshock1122 wrote:Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 1?Yes (3) 50% If you have time (2) 33% No (1) 17% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
bottom of page poll quote omg this thread is moving too fast!!
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 2?No (4) 100% Yes (0) 0% If you have time (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Losers' Match game 3?Yes (5) 83% If you have time (1) 17% No (0) 0% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers' Match game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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Man major was in a really good position...
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Spot on analyze from Axslav! he praises Major position 10 second later is over lol
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0-4. I was hoping to see a better showing from Major. Some of that kespa training magic, you know
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I really wish he was in another group.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 11:58 AlternativeEgo wrote:
0-4. I was hoping to see a better showing from Major. Some of that kespa training magic, you know
esf! esf! esf! but yeah too bad. He looked fairly strong compared to the other American players. He probably could have been competitive to advance in a lot of other groups.
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aLive please scout for early roaches and don't try to hold your natural with 2 marines and scv's and you will be okay.
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100% ringspun poly/cotton blend!
Damn, he was pretty excited about that lol
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On May 03 2013 11:58 AlternativeEgo wrote:
0-4. I was hoping to see a better showing from Major. Some of that kespa training magic, you know
Latency, the achilles heel of KeSPA training.
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Sigh... MajOr... So disappointed...
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On May 03 2013 12:03 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:58 AlternativeEgo wrote:
0-4. I was hoping to see a better showing from Major. Some of that kespa training magic, you know Latency, the achilles heel of KeSPA training.
His opponents had the same latency issues though
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On May 03 2013 12:00 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:58 AlternativeEgo wrote:
0-4. I was hoping to see a better showing from Major. Some of that kespa training magic, you know esf! esf! esf! but yeah too bad. He looked fairly strong compared to the other American players. He probably could have been competitive to advance in a lot of other groups.
Yeah there's absolutely no shame in losing to these guys, god no. It's just that he lost some of that mythical Juanito shimmer. That's a bummer.
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Heroooooooooooo!
What a ballah!
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United States97276 Posts
"how is alive going to react after seeing this?"
my guess is after the first series is he's going to do absolutely nothing different than he was already planning. #yolo
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" Hero definitely knew how to play the game "
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With high latency, Alive should really go tanks. That is, if Vipers didn't make tanks into expensive Marauders that don't get Stim...
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Very disappointed in Major. He has been practicing in a Kespa house for like 6 months now. He should not be in last place.
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Killer going full foreigner after that great start
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How can alive be up in supply when hes been on 2 base for 20 minutes ><
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The throws!!! Damn killer was doing fine, until he remember he is a foreigner.
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend Final Match game 1?If you have time (3) 75% No (1) 25% Yes (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Final Match game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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Killer's ability to go full foreigner is outstanding
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Despite Alive being the first Korean to lose a series to a foreigner in this tournament it looks like he's going to advance anyway ;/
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United States97276 Posts
I really thought Killer was going to be able to win that game after the roach attack put him ahead :/
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aLive isn't playing that well but seems to be enough to beat foreigners. Unless killer roach rushes him again lol
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does anyone have the song that was just on?
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On May 03 2013 12:16 mrRoflpwn wrote:
Very disappointed in Major. He has been practicing in a Kespa house for like 6 months now. He should not be in last place.
I don't know him, but I have followed Major since he was an up and coming foreigner in BW. He seems like a very talented individual who doesn't have the maturity and dedication to be a top player.
His constant team jumping and seeming inability to improve beyond "shows a lot of promise" don't bode well for his long term potential imo. I hope it works out for him but that is just my take.
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On May 03 2013 12:05 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:03 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 11:58 AlternativeEgo wrote:
0-4. I was hoping to see a better showing from Major. Some of that kespa training magic, you know Latency, the achilles heel of KeSPA training. His opponents had the same latency issues though
That's the joke.
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if he throws his hellions away again....
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Are other people also having insane lag?
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Killer so badly needs some Spore Crawlers to shoot down these Medivacs.
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aLive really messed up his macro during those drops
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The koreans march forward
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United States97276 Posts
Poll: Recommend Final Match game 2?Yes (2) 67% If you have time (1) 33% No (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Recommend Final Match game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Final Match game 3?Yes (2) 67% No (1) 33% If you have time (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Recommend Final Match game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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dat multi task and desperation counter attack~ fun game to watch
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close, but no cigar
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killer is very talented but I feel like he is really throwing hard these last two games. He just seems to lose focus once things get hectic in the mid game.
Also spores man, spore
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That was a crazy amount of drops... Well played by aLive
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Ultras without ling support is always tragic to watch.
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Nice to see Hero make it out, the rest of the games weren't that great :/
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Well two more koreans advance, surprising no one
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Generally, I'm all for the promotion of the NA scene, but at this point, I'm all for all of the non-NA players going through so everyone can point to Blizzard and say "I told you this was a bad idea!"
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well at least a foreigner got a little close to making it through by taking one series off a korean ~~;
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in hindsight these open region thing is gonna look like a fiasco when wcs americas is all korea
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also the only real loser is major
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So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS.
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On May 03 2013 12:40 Heinsenzerg wrote:
in hindsight these open region thing is gonna look like a fiasco when wcs americas is all korea
I don't know whether I should laugh or cry...
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On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS.
Uhh... That's the GSL format that has been used for ages...?
Or are we just selectively bitching because our favored player got bumped out?
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With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh.
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On May 03 2013 12:42 Shellshock1122 wrote:sick ro16 shaping up with  TheStC, Snute, NesTea, ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/a/ab/Pr.png) Apocalypse,  Alicia,  mOOnGLaDe, aLive, and HerO making it so far!
I'm glad Puerto Rico is getting the representation it deserves.
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Canada poached HerO? You gonna get heat from the Dutch when they wake up.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 12:45 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Canada poached HerO? You gonna get heat from the Dutch when they wake up.
I tried to stop them but there was nothing I could do. Damn citizenship laws
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On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS.
NO.
This is a good group system. It's how double elimination brackets work. They are 1-1 against each other. Looking at their other game, Killer has a loss, Alive has a win. Killer lost twice, he is out. Alive won twice, he is through.
Killer only had to repeat his win against aLive, but he couldn't do it - that's why he is out.
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On May 03 2013 12:43 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS. Uhh... That's the GSL format that has been used for ages...? Or are we just selectively bitching because our favored player got bumped out?
No, I'm just as annoyed when it happens in GSL (see group B from this week).
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On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh.
Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty?
Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them
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I am loving this WCS AM! Such surprising results!
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On May 03 2013 12:48 MrMotionPicture wrote:
I am loving this WCS AM! Such surprising results!
It did get quite interesting after the first series though
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It's a joke, Korean CodeA & B players dominate AM Code S.
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On May 03 2013 12:47 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh. Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty? Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them
I'd say Revival is the most likely to go down, considering how he does in proleague and the fact that it's zvz. Realistically I don't think Heart should lose against hellokitty or an in-school Suppy
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On May 03 2013 12:47 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh. Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty? Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them
I'd say Scarlett is still a good chance, she has had her injury for a while and still done fine + she did win some nice games last night for Acer
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On May 03 2013 12:47 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh. Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty? Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them
Idra has been playing like utter shit for the last year, Goswser sucks zvz (which he'll have to play to get out), Suppy is great against other foreigners and korean zergs, but I don't think he can handle Ryung and Heart (though I'd be happy if he proved me wrong on that), and Hellokitty is a ladder champion.
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 12:52 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:47 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh. Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty? Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them I'd say Scarlett is still a good chance, she has had her injury for a while and still done fine + she did win some nice games last night for Acer
depends on how well Oz plays. She probably wont make it through viOLet but if Oz plays like one of his bad days she could make it through pretty easily.
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On May 03 2013 12:52 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:47 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh. Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty? Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them I'd say Scarlett is still a good chance, she has had her injury for a while and still done fine + she did win some nice games last night for Acer
I agree, I think Scarlett has a realistic chance at first place in the group.
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On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh.
Will be quite tough. Sen a heavy favorite vs him and I'd give the edge to Crank as well. I think Goswser is NA's best shot.
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On May 03 2013 12:46 Thrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS. NO. This is a good group system. It's how double elimination brackets work. They are 1-1 against each other. Looking at their other game, Killer has a loss, Alive has a win. Killer lost twice, he is out. Alive won twice, he is through. Killer only had to repeat his win against aLive, but he couldn't do it - that's why he is out.
I know there's not a great alternative, but just like in the bracket system, the outcome can definitely be affected by the order the players face each other.
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On May 03 2013 12:53 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On May 03 2013 12:47 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:44 tribulator wrote:
With scarlett being injured I think Huk is the real last plausible NORF `MERIKAN hope.
Ugh. Why not Idra/Goswser and suppy/hellokitty? Heart and Revival aren't exactly monsters and could just as easily be taken down by one of them I'd say Scarlett is still a good chance, she has had her injury for a while and still done fine + she did win some nice games last night for Acer depends on how well Oz plays. She probably wont make it through viOLet but if Oz plays like one of his bad days she could make it through pretty easily.
It should be one of the best groups at least, I can't remember the last time I saw Violet play and Oz can have some weird game plans occasionally. She should have an ok shot at 2nd if things go her way.
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On May 03 2013 12:42 Shellshock1122 wrote:sick ro16 shaping up with TheStC, Snute, NesTea, Apocalypse, Alicia, mOOnGLaDe, aLive, and HerO making it so far!
This made me laugh more than i should haha.
But anyway, do you think Blizzard would do something if just koreans advance?
I think that they are doing it the wrong way, i think first they should have helped the local scenes, and THEN like 2 years later, create this kind of system in which everyone can play in whatever region they want so the best player would win. But first they had to help develop the local scenes (the foreigner scene in general) and then, make it global, that way they would actually have a chance. Everyone knows that by the third season WCS AM is going to be 100% korean, and WCS EU will be 80% korean because you didnt give the players the chance. I think they should have sticked to the old WCS format until LotV, and then this format with the only difference that you had to live in the region to play in that region.
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For your information; MVP barely made it out of the group. Shuttle failed to advance in EU and I dont think MMA will have a walk in the park vs Feast Mana and SortOf .. not to mention the Koreans that didnt qualify. EU can stand its ground pretty good.
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how amazing not one person on the eastern hemisphere in WCS america.. go blizzard. u nailed this one..
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United States374 Posts
I understand that America has to be the laughing stock of the sc2 scene, and probably always will be, but I'm caring less and less about this season of it. Before I get labeled racist, I'm an avid GSL viewer, I watch like every VOD, i love watching proleague, etc. I don't even mind so much when koreans come over and dominate every MLG, or NASL, or IPL (rip). But I was hoping this would be like last year where we would finally have a tournament that a reasonable amount of north american players could claim victory on. I know I'm not the only person who enjoyed watching some of the WCS America and def. the north american finals last year. But at this point, what exactly is the point of watching? I already watch tons of amazing koreans play in proleague and GSL. I know with a 95% certainty that WCS America season 1 will consist of mostly koreans from the ro16 to the finals. I guess I should look at it more like a GSL that is "in" the USA, but I just don't feel like caring anymore if no one from north america can even get into the second group stage.
I'm really happy for the europeans holding their own but to be fair, there were a LOT less koreans trying to get into WCS Europe, and only 4 who managed to get into the premier league (shuttle JUST BARELY qualified, but he lost anyway). Not to mention the top of the european scene is stacked considerably higher than NA. But compare this to the nearly 20 or so Koreans who declared they would be participating in WCS America. I guess I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but it's just frustrating to watch.
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On May 03 2013 13:49 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:43 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS. Uhh... That's the GSL format that has been used for ages...? Or are we just selectively bitching because our favored player got bumped out? It sucks in the GSL too. Just look at group B. The second best player of the group did not advance.
Who, Life? He could've advanced if he won Loser's Match vs Parting, the guy he 2:0ed prior.
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On May 03 2013 13:49 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:43 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS. Uhh... That's the GSL format that has been used for ages...? Or are we just selectively bitching because our favored player got bumped out? It sucks in the GSL too. Just look at group B. The second best player of the group did not advance.
Parting advanced tho..
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I think next WCS there will be limitations on nationality, this honestly is a huge mistake so far with korea representing so many different regions.
And I absolutely hate watching foreigners get stomped by korean pros to.
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2 more koreans advanced. This is just stupid.
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On May 03 2013 13:45 Type|NarutO wrote:
EU can stand its ground pretty good.
You can thank the latency for that. KOR to EU is considered unplayable by a lot of people.
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Who does tell you Flash would have lost to Life or PartinG to BoguS? Life won 2-0 in his first match. He only needed to repeat it.
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On May 03 2013 14:00 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 13:54 suicideyear wrote:On May 03 2013 13:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On May 03 2013 12:43 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS. Uhh... That's the GSL format that has been used for ages...? Or are we just selectively bitching because our favored player got bumped out? It sucks in the GSL too. Just look at group B. The second best player of the group did not advance. Who, Life? He could've advanced if he won Loser's Match vs Parting, the guy he 2:0ed prior. They split their series and Life only got eliminated because he had to face the way tougher play in his second match.
Do you understand that Life played against PartinG once again and lost horribly? So how is he better if he lost?
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On May 03 2013 14:12 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:You can thank the latency for that. KOR to EU is considered unplayable by a lot of people.
MMA playes from Germany. Shuttle from NA to EU which is no excuse. Even with no latency issues, top of Europe can stand their ground. You can argue that point but I will link you plenty bo3 or bo5 in which Koreans barely won or even lost offline.
Take only the not qualified players from Europe and the pool is still deeper than NA.
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Just a little tidbit. Koreans that have played so far in WCS NA are 6/6....
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On May 03 2013 13:53 Gojira621 wrote:
I know I'm not the only person who enjoyed watching some of the WCS America and def. the north american finals last year. But at this point, what exactly is the point of watching? I already watch tons of amazing koreans play in proleague and GSL. I know with a 95% certainty that WCS America season 1 will consist of mostly koreans from the ro16 to the finals. I guess I should look at it more like a GSL that is "in" the USA, but I just don't feel like caring anymore if no one from north america can even get into the second group stage.
You speak for me as well. This tournament seems to be the worst of both worlds - it lacks the novelty of being a tournament for players we rarely get to see, like much of last year's WCS, but it also lacks top level play since most of the Koreans playing WCS America are those who would not or could not make it in GSL. I'll still be tuning in to see if Huk or Scarlett can make something happen, but I'm pretty uninterested.
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On May 03 2013 14:19 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 14:14 LennoxPM wrote:On May 03 2013 14:00 Emzeeshady wrote:On May 03 2013 13:54 suicideyear wrote:On May 03 2013 13:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On May 03 2013 12:43 Dosey wrote:On May 03 2013 12:42 Thrillhouse wrote:
So Killer splits with Alive, but gets knocked down because in his other game he had to play Hero, while Alive got to play Major. Both Koreans advance without even having to play each other. GG, WCS. Uhh... That's the GSL format that has been used for ages...? Or are we just selectively bitching because our favored player got bumped out? It sucks in the GSL too. Just look at group B. The second best player of the group did not advance. Who, Life? He could've advanced if he won Loser's Match vs Parting, the guy he 2:0ed prior. They split their series and Life only got eliminated because he had to face the way tougher play in his second match. Do you understand that Life played against PartinG once again and lost horribly? So how is he better if he lost? I am not going to get into this at 1:16 AM but I believe that the first series is the one the players really prepare for and therefore should have more value. Having to play the final match after showing your builds earlier against the same player (never mind the horrible first map they used) is rough. The way the format works makes the first match useless unless you are the best player in the group.
You just said yourself, that stronger player won. Life had prepared some fancy builds for the first series but in the end PartinG was the better player so he won.
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Is major still in Korea? He doesn't seem to be improving.
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Austria24417 Posts
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep
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On May 03 2013 15:09 Bunn wrote:
Is major still in Korea? He doesn't seem to be improving.
I didn't see the games so take it with a grain of salt, but losing to aLive and HerO (don't know how badly) isn't that bad really.
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On May 03 2013 15:09 Bunn wrote:
Is major still in Korea? He doesn't seem to be improving.
Dude, he played two extremely close games againt HerO. Then he has to play against alive whos specialty is t v t. He kind of just got shafted in his group, for it being one of the hardest.
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Polt! Americas last hope! r16 is shaping up nicely. Will be fun to watch laggy koreans duking it out on NA server :DD!
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
;; killer, he could have done it
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 03 2013 16:59 stfouri wrote:
Polt! Americas last hope! r16 is shaping up nicely. Will be fun to watch laggy koreans duking it out on NA server :DD!
Ro16 is offline so no lag!
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On May 03 2013 13:53 Gojira621 wrote:
I understand that America has to be the laughing stock of the sc2 scene, and probably always will be, but I'm caring less and less about this season of it. Before I get labeled racist, I'm an avid GSL viewer, I watch like every VOD, i love watching proleague, etc. I don't even mind so much when koreans come over and dominate every MLG, or NASL, or IPL (rip). But I was hoping this would be like last year where we would finally have a tournament that a reasonable amount of north american players could claim victory on. I know I'm not the only person who enjoyed watching some of the WCS America and def. the north american finals last year. But at this point, what exactly is the point of watching? I already watch tons of amazing koreans play in proleague and GSL. I know with a 95% certainty that WCS America season 1 will consist of mostly koreans from the ro16 to the finals. I guess I should look at it more like a GSL that is "in" the USA, but I just don't feel like caring anymore if no one from north america can even get into the second group stage.
I'm really happy for the europeans holding their own but to be fair, there were a LOT less koreans trying to get into WCS Europe, and only 4 who managed to get into the premier league (shuttle JUST BARELY qualified, but he lost anyway). Not to mention the top of the european scene is stacked considerably higher than NA. But compare this to the nearly 20 or so Koreans who declared they would be participating in WCS America. I guess I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but it's just frustrating to watch.
Well said!
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep
He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good.
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On May 03 2013 18:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good.
I think you are talking about Major, Olli was asking about HerO ^_^
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United States97276 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:32 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 18:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good. I think you are talking about Major, Olli was asking about HerO ^_^
oh yeah oops just woke up.
as for hero. he stomped both his matches easy. :D
it's cause I just read some posts about major around it and IDs didnt switch in my mind >.<
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 03 2013 18:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 18:32 dani` wrote:On May 03 2013 18:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good. I think you are talking about Major, Olli was asking about HerO ^_^ oh yeah oops just woke up. as for hero. he stomped both his matches easy. :D it's cause I just read some posts about major around it and IDs didnt switch in my mind >.<
Haha I was really confused there for a second
Just found out that MLG puts VODs on youtube so gotta watch em all :D
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 03 2013 19:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 18:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 18:32 dani` wrote:On May 03 2013 18:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good. I think you are talking about Major, Olli was asking about HerO ^_^ oh yeah oops just woke up. as for hero. he stomped both his matches easy. :D it's cause I just read some posts about major around it and IDs didnt switch in my mind >.< Haha I was really confused there for a second Just found out that MLG puts VODs on youtube so gotta watch em all :D
no, his post makes sense, HerO played well but not top foreigner level, right?
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Man that Colin vs Coran poll is so wrong, Colin is a bad name, that L ruins it.
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 03 2013 19:04 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 19:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 03 2013 18:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 18:32 dani` wrote:On May 03 2013 18:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good. I think you are talking about Major, Olli was asking about HerO ^_^ oh yeah oops just woke up. as for hero. he stomped both his matches easy. :D it's cause I just read some posts about major around it and IDs didnt switch in my mind >.< Haha I was really confused there for a second Just found out that MLG puts VODs on youtube so gotta watch em all :D no, his post makes sense, HerO played well but not top foreigner level, right?
How does make flags? I wanna be funny too
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 03 2013 19:29 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 19:04 opterown wrote:On May 03 2013 19:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 03 2013 18:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 18:32 dani` wrote:On May 03 2013 18:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 03 2013 15:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
How did HerO look? Missed the games due to... sleep He looked pretty good in game 1 against both players. game 2s didn't go very well. overall looked better than he did before going to korea and would have done better in other groups probably, but not like top foreigner good. I think you are talking about Major, Olli was asking about HerO ^_^ oh yeah oops just woke up. as for hero. he stomped both his matches easy. :D it's cause I just read some posts about major around it and IDs didnt switch in my mind >.< Haha I was really confused there for a second Just found out that MLG puts VODs on youtube so gotta watch em all :D no, his post makes sense, HerO played well but not top foreigner level, right? How does make flags? I wanna be funny too
:ca:
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Non-koreans suck
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 03 2013 20:33 sinigang wrote:Non-koreans suck
 Major played well though according to people who saw the games!
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On May 03 2013 13:53 Gojira621 wrote:
I understand that America has to be the laughing stock of the sc2 scene, and probably always will be, but I'm caring less and less about this season of it. Before I get labeled racist, I'm an avid GSL viewer, I watch like every VOD, i love watching proleague, etc. I don't even mind so much when koreans come over and dominate every MLG, or NASL, or IPL (rip). But I was hoping this would be like last year where we would finally have a tournament that a reasonable amount of north american players could claim victory on. I know I'm not the only person who enjoyed watching some of the WCS America and def. the north american finals last year. But at this point, what exactly is the point of watching? I already watch tons of amazing koreans play in proleague and GSL. I know with a 95% certainty that WCS America season 1 will consist of mostly koreans from the ro16 to the finals. I guess I should look at it more like a GSL that is "in" the USA, but I just don't feel like caring anymore if no one from north america can even get into the second group stage.
I'm really happy for the europeans holding their own but to be fair, there were a LOT less koreans trying to get into WCS Europe, and only 4 who managed to get into the premier league (shuttle JUST BARELY qualified, but he lost anyway). Not to mention the top of the european scene is stacked considerably higher than NA. But compare this to the nearly 20 or so Koreans who declared they would be participating in WCS America. I guess I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but it's just frustrating to watch.
So much truth in this post. Killer and Major are both so good. It's a shame that they can't advance in an NA tournament. I don't care to see more Koreans playing.
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So far 6 Koreans, 1 Australian and 1 Norwegian have gotten through to the round of 16 for the NORTH AMERICAN WCS.
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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I said this before. I will stop watching WCS when there are no longer any players from SA/NA in the tourney. I don't care to watch another emotionless korean tourney with players that I don't follow or really care about.
I see that when I watch the GSL and many other tourneys (not flaming, I love watching the skill that these players show) but Blizz talks about growing the NA scene, but in reality we are turning into BW where the NA scene was crippled by that mentality of MORE KOREANS means BETTER ESPORTS
It hurts esports as a whole, and watch the viewship numbers drop after the last NA player falls out of the tourney.
Looking forward to Shoutcraft America, what WCS NA should have been.
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On May 03 2013 22:52 Enchanted wrote:
So far 6 Koreans, 1 Australian and 1 Norwegian have gotten through to the round of 16 for the NORTH AMERICAN WCS.
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
WCS AMERICAS, not NORTH AMERICAN anything.
Still sad, but Major and Killer were two representatives who could have actually made it in WCS AMERICAS
Also, if it wasn't WCS AMERICAS, then it would be MLG. Where Koreans would come. And dominate. So it's a case of Koreans winning WCS AMERICAS or Koreans winning MLG.
Same crap, different name.
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 03 2013 23:00 Ravensong170 wrote:
I said this before. I will stop watching WCS when there are no longer any players from SA/NA in the tourney. I don't care to watch another emotionless korean tourney with players that I don't follow or really care about.
I see that when I watch the GSL and many other tourneys (not flaming, I love watching the skill that these players show) but Blizz talks about growing the NA scene, but in reality we are turning into BW where the NA scene was crippled by that mentality of MORE KOREANS means BETTER ESPORTS
It hurts esports as a whole, and watch the viewship numbers drop after the last NA player falls out of the tourney.
Looking forward to Shoutcraft America, what WCS NA should have been.
Blizzard wants WCS to be the biggest tournament in the world. Like a best of the best. Not a single NA player deserves to be in something like that (except for maaaaaaybeeeeeeee Scarlett).
I agree that the previous system was better but I also won't complain about this one and I won't miss anybody who does. Complain to blizzard, not in LRs.
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Killer did surpirse me vs alive in that first series. But I knew alive would get out. I have been actualy enjoying the EU WCS games more than NA, but I watch mainly the NA. WCS NA is basically the league the koreans who can't make it in the real Code S come here. I think the 2nd group stage will be at least enterataining because you will have better players get through. The problem I have with TB shoutcraft America event, is that the player list is a bunch of random players, and then root gaming players. I do want to see the root gaming players, but I don't really care to watch xenocider(no offense).
Next week I think we will see more foreigners get out. Scarlett's group could be hard cause violet and Oz could get out pretty easily. I really think Scarlett will be the one to determine that if she wins. IT does help that she doesn't play a korean first, she plays state, so if she beats state she only has to beat oz/violet to advance. Group C I see reviaval and polt getting out. Idra could get out but I don't have faith in him since he leaves games vs demuslim, and blames blizzard if he loses, so Polt, who only needs to prepare vs Zerg will win. Still don't get why hellokitty is in "NA code S" but I guess we shall see how he does vs 2 koreans in RYung and heart, I expect the korean terrans get out. HuK and Sen should actually get out of there group, Huk was strong at dreamhack and Sen is very good. I think HuK can beat crank in a PvP. And HuK is in korean under coach park so that should be good.
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On May 03 2013 23:06 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 23:00 Ravensong170 wrote:
I said this before. I will stop watching WCS when there are no longer any players from SA/NA in the tourney. I don't care to watch another emotionless korean tourney with players that I don't follow or really care about.
I see that when I watch the GSL and many other tourneys (not flaming, I love watching the skill that these players show) but Blizz talks about growing the NA scene, but in reality we are turning into BW where the NA scene was crippled by that mentality of MORE KOREANS means BETTER ESPORTS
It hurts esports as a whole, and watch the viewship numbers drop after the last NA player falls out of the tourney.
Looking forward to Shoutcraft America, what WCS NA should have been. Blizzard wants WCS to be the biggest tournament in the world. Like a best of the best. Not a single NA player deserves to be in something like that (except for maaaaaaybeeeeeeee Scarlett).
This is how I feel too. At WCS 2012, watching the guys from [non-Korea] compete, I couldn't help but feel a world champion should be decided from a tourney where the best were united, and that it wasn't the case with that sort of qualifying system.
Ofc I understand the other side of the coin, and I do think that this group was ridiculous for Killer and Major, but I'm certainly going to keep watching no matter what, and I expect much better WCS Finals for 2013 because of how they decided to do it.
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Here's the problem, as has been stated multiple times: If they say their goal is to help the growth in American e-sports, then how much is this really helping when like 95% of the prizepool of WCS NA goes towards Koreans? It's hard to imagine a bustling scene trying to claw their way to the top of NA for a shot at the $1,000 dollars or whatever it is of getting knocked out in the first round of Premiere league if you even get that far.
Yes, they want the WCS to be the biggest tournament in the world and crown the best of the best, but aren't the players coming out of WCS Korea going to be the best of the best anyway? By that logic isn't this already a failure because the Premiere league players in Korea who won't make it to the finals for that region are better than even the top 8 Koreans that will come out of NA?
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:03 Fries wrote:
Here's the problem, as has been stated multiple times: If they say their goal is to help the growth in American e-sports, then how much is this really helping when like 95% of the prizepool of WCS NA goes towards Koreans? It's hard to imagine a bustling scene trying to claw their way to the top of NA for a shot at the $1,000 dollars or whatever it is of getting knocked out in the first round of Premiere league if you even get that far.
Yes, they want the WCS to be the biggest tournament in the world and crown the best of the best, but aren't the players coming out of WCS Korea going to be the best of the best anyway? By that logic isn't this already a failure because the Premiere league players in Korea who won't make it to the finals for that region are better than even the top 8 Koreans that will come out of NA?
Kinda, yes. I guess in the long run they want a strong scene in all of the regions which includes a more spread out lineup of koreans. Currently Korea is so stacked that the current Code A is almost stronger than Code S was a year ago. The amount of raw skill there at the moment is too high. So I suppose what they're trying to do is export some of that so they'll have an absolutely sick finals. Like... there's groups of death like WCS Ro16 group B. Those will happen more often now. There's just too many SICK good players.
That, I guess, is the plan. I don't think it's gonna help the respective scenes that much in the sense that the money will go to koreans. However the koreans might bring a lot of knowledge, ways to practice, just practice partners in general, etc.
I mean all of this is speculation but I think that's what they wanna do. They wanna make SC2 global by going after skill, not names. Which means spread out the koreans, lol.
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And my problem is I just don't see how we can realistically expect NA to get better when they're fighting over what is realistically not going to be a lot of money. I have nothing against the Koreans, but I just can't see helping grow the NA scene much.
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:13 Fries wrote:
And my problem is I just don't see how we can realistically expect NA to get better when they're fighting over what is realistically not going to be a lot of money. I have nothing against the Koreans, but I just can't see helping grow the NA scene much.
That's true. I didn't say I agreed with what I think they're trying to do, I don't in fact. I think the system from last year was better. To be honest they could just have one regional WCS like last year and then give WCS points for every tournament. The more stacked it is, the more points you get. Which means you'll have the best players from each region qualify through their regional WCS and then you'd have the rest fight for points at tournaments like MLG, Dreamhack, GSL, ETC
THEN you get a final where the best players from each region (which should excite their respective players) compete with the most successful people in tournaments. The only thing that would have to change is Kespa being a bitch and not letting their players leave Korea or holding more tournaments in Korea to give those players a better chance.
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On May 03 2013 13:53 Gojira621 wrote:
I know with a 95% certainty that WCS America season 1 will consist of mostly koreans from the ro16 to the finals.
Sounds good to me. I'll start watching at that point.
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On May 04 2013 02:13 Fries wrote:
And my problem is I just don't see how we can realistically expect NA to get better when they're fighting over what is realistically not going to be a lot of money. I have nothing against the Koreans, but I just can't see helping grow the NA scene much.
So Blizzard should give pity money to baddies? Why?
I mean, no offense, but if you can't beat TheSTC, Apocalypse, Snute or Moonglade (seriously, no offense to these players) then what the fuck rights do you have to be clamouring about prize money?
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Austria24417 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:20 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 02:13 Fries wrote:
And my problem is I just don't see how we can realistically expect NA to get better when they're fighting over what is realistically not going to be a lot of money. I have nothing against the Koreans, but I just can't see helping grow the NA scene much. So Blizzard should give pity money to baddies? Why? I mean, no offense, but if you can't beat TheSTC, Apocalypse, Snute or Moonglade (seriously, no offense to these players) then what the fuck rights do you have to be clamouring about prize money?
Well, the thing he's talking about is if NA teams and players make no money because the koreans come over and win everything, then they won't have the possibility to set up a professional practice environment like there is in korea ====>> they'll never even have the chance to get as good as the koreans.
It's blatantly obvious that just grinding the ladder all day doesn't do the job. Otherwise Minigun would win tournaments. And I think he'd have the potential to, with the proper infrastructure, a coach taking care of the team, strong practice partners, super deep knowledge floating around the practice environment. People helping him prepare for specific games as well as broader tournaments, etc.
All those things differentiate korean pros from NA pros.
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Regarding growing American e-sports: Set aside prize money for a minute. You need to remember that there is _already_ more money in AM e-sports than there is in KR e-sports. The majority of the viewers and of the sponsors are outside of Korea. That's the whole reason why Korean players are ending up on Western teams - the Western teams are the ones with cash.
So if money isn't the obstacle, what is? It's skill. It's training, it's playing against the best. Which is why we encourage players to go to Korea and level up. But that's expensive and difficult and gets a whole lot of other roadblocks (including getting used to a whole new culture) in the way of Starcraft.
So here's the plan: let's try and get some of the best to come over to AM. Kickstart the local scene with world-class skill and training regimens. Give them incentive to stay in AM by having regular off-line matches and making it hard to switch between regions. (Region switching after season 1, and online RO32 are only temporary, to get things started...)
The goal is to _make_ these players into AM players, regardless of where they are from initially, and then, once you have the local scene built and world-class, then new players coming up will have the right environment to get the skills without having to move halfway around the world in order to do it.
Yes, the first couple seasons will kind of suck. They would've been less than ideal anyway because of all the invites to start things off and people still learning HotS. But in the long-term, this is one of the only ways to actually make the AM scene worthwhile.
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On May 03 2013 23:24 HeeroFX wrote: The problem I have with TB shoutcraft America event, is that the player list is a bunch of random players, and then root gaming players. I do want to see the root gaming players, but I don't really care to watch xenocider(no offense).
This is the problem with the SC2 community.
"Why are foreigners so bad? Where are the good foreign players!"
* Provides a list of top foreign players according to GM ladder, competing in their native countries, puts them in a tournament
"I don't know any of these players, I'm not going to watch!"
How the fuck is the foreigner scene supposed to develop if you're not willing to support it? Do these guys need to beat Koreans for you to notice them? How are they going to do that if they don't even have the opportunity to play against them?
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Not even going to bother arguing with idiots anymore. DELICIOUS TEARS. 24 invites - 8 Koreans qualified - blame Blizzard. Will never understand that logic!
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But as far as I know they're not actually coming to the region. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the majority playing online then flying over to NA to play the offline matches and then flying back to their usual practice environments with some easy money in their pockets. I do agree with you Tobon that it could get better if it did keep these players within the scene and hopefully if nothing else that happens.
Like DarkLord said, I'm speaking exclusively about raising the level of play outside of Korea. If one of the goals of Blizzard is to help grow E-sports in other regions, I don't see how this does it.
I applaud Blizzard for trying to pump money into the different regions, but in my mind I think it would work best like this:
Blizzard throws in their contribution to the prize-pool evenly distributed like it currently is. That way each region has a sort of "minimum wage" if you will. But don't cut off players in other regions from possibly making even more money. Set that up as a base and allow the prize-pools to grow from there. The region with the most viewers, sponsorships, etc will end up with a bigger prize-pool and that's exactly as it should be. A sort of minor league system develops where players that aren't good enough quite yet for the Korean league come here to play and hopefully make a decent living. When they're a little better they go to EU because there might be more money there and slightly higher competition and Korea is the big leagues.
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On May 04 2013 02:41 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 23:24 HeeroFX wrote: The problem I have with TB shoutcraft America event, is that the player list is a bunch of random players, and then root gaming players. I do want to see the root gaming players, but I don't really care to watch xenocider(no offense).
This is the problem with the SC2 community. "Why are foreigners so bad? Where are the good foreign players!" * Provides a list of top foreign players according to GM ladder, competing in their native countries, puts them in a tournament "I don't know any of these players, I'm not going to watch!" How the fuck is the foreigner scene supposed to develop if you're not willing to support it? Do these guys need to beat Koreans for you to notice them? How are they going to do that if they don't even have the opportunity to play against them?
No no because if they do it will be the "bad Koreans that had to play in NA"
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On May 04 2013 02:44 Fries wrote:
But as far as I know they're not actually coming to the region. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the majority playing online then flying over to NA to play the offline matches and then flying back to their usual practice environments with some easy money in their pockets. I do agree with you Tobon that it could get better if it did keep these players within the scene and hopefully if nothing else that happens.
Like DarkLord said, I'm speaking exclusively about raising the level of play outside of Korea. If one of the goals of Blizzard is to help grow E-sports in other regions, I don't see how this does it.
I applaud Blizzard for trying to pump money into the different regions, but in my mind I think it would work best like this:
Blizzard throws in their contribution to the prize-pool evenly distributed like it currently is. That way each region has a sort of "minimum wage" if you will. But don't cut off players in other regions from possibly making even more money. Set that up as a base and allow the prize-pools to grow from there. The region with the most viewers, sponsorships, etc will end up with a bigger prize-pool and that's exactly as it should be. A sort of minor league system develops where players that aren't good enough quite yet for the Korean league come here to play and hopefully make a decent living. When they're a little better they go to EU because there might be more money there and slightly higher competition and Korea is the big leagues.
The region with the highest skill ceiling and quality should have the biggest price pool.
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On May 04 2013 02:46 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 02:44 Fries wrote:
But as far as I know they're not actually coming to the region. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the majority playing online then flying over to NA to play the offline matches and then flying back to their usual practice environments with some easy money in their pockets. I do agree with you Tobon that it could get better if it did keep these players within the scene and hopefully if nothing else that happens.
Like DarkLord said, I'm speaking exclusively about raising the level of play outside of Korea. If one of the goals of Blizzard is to help grow E-sports in other regions, I don't see how this does it.
I applaud Blizzard for trying to pump money into the different regions, but in my mind I think it would work best like this:
Blizzard throws in their contribution to the prize-pool evenly distributed like it currently is. That way each region has a sort of "minimum wage" if you will. But don't cut off players in other regions from possibly making even more money. Set that up as a base and allow the prize-pools to grow from there. The region with the most viewers, sponsorships, etc will end up with a bigger prize-pool and that's exactly as it should be. A sort of minor league system develops where players that aren't good enough quite yet for the Korean league come here to play and hopefully make a decent living. When they're a little better they go to EU because there might be more money there and slightly higher competition and Korea is the big leagues. The region with the highest skill ceiling and quality should have the biggest price pool.
No. The region that makes the most money should have the biggest prize pool. Ideally the two would be the same but that's not how you run a business, which is what a league is.
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If you want a truly AM WCS you're going to have to be accepting of a much smaller prize pool, Shoutcraft america is about where it should be, not 20k first place prizes. WCS AM with only AM players with the same prize pool as GSL would be the biggest joke in our short history.
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On May 04 2013 02:59 Dodgin wrote:
If you want a truly AM WCS you're going to have to be accepting of a much smaller prize pool, Shoutcraft america is about where it should be, not 20k first place prizes. WCS AM with only AM players with the same prize pool as GSL would be the biggest joke in our short history.
Reread what I said carefully. Blizzard can do whatever they want with their money. The problem is it sounds like they blocked the prizepool from going any higher for some reason.
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If I was responding to your post I would have quoted it, It's directed at everyone who somehow thinks WCS AM with a 100k prize pool for only AM players should exist. AM only tournaments are fine but they don't deserve to have that much money pumped into them, or if they do have that much pumped into them then the Korean WCS should have 300k+ per season.
Vibe winning 12k for beating daisuki (who? oh yeah the guy who admitted to maphacking) in last years US WCS was a total farce, Creator won 10.5k for winning WCS Korea. I hope to never see something so stupid again.
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My bad assuming that was directed towards me. Although I hesitate to say that AM players don't "deserve" to have that much money. In my opinion the market should drive that.
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Yes I agree that the open market should drive that, the thing is AM-only competitions have had very poor viewership in the past. It's up to Shoutcraft America to prove us wrong that no one wants to watch AM players compete with AM players. If that tournament is a big success and they get the viewer numbers they want (I heard 50k for the finals somewhere) then it would be worth putting that kind of money into AM tournaments. At this point it would be something like that Shootmania tournament that IPL held where it was a large prize pool but they only had 2k viewers.
Maybe It's possible that WCS AM is getting poor viewership compared to EU & KR because of the bad publicity of the qualifiers and AM residents not watching because of Koreans being in the tournament. I think It's simply because the AM audience is much smaller than the EU audience for starcraft 2, and WCS AM airs while EU is asleep.
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On May 04 2013 02:44 Type|NarutO wrote:
Not even going to bother arguing with idiots anymore. DELICIOUS TEARS. 24 invites - 8 Koreans qualified - blame Blizzard. Will never understand that logic!
This is the best post in this thread for sure. I will start watching WCS AM when all the bad players have been knocked out. I think RO16 will be fucking great!
Also about TB's tournament, great that someone does something for the NA/SA scen, but I don't think a lot of Europeans will not watch low tier "up and coming" NA players. Also the viewers that only want to see good games will be missing as well. But I wish the tournament all the best.
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On May 04 2013 03:33 SayTT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 02:44 Type|NarutO wrote:
Not even going to bother arguing with idiots anymore. DELICIOUS TEARS. 24 invites - 8 Koreans qualified - blame Blizzard. Will never understand that logic! This is the best post in this thread for sure. I will start watching WCS AM when all the bad players have been knocked out. I think RO16 will be fucking great! Also about TB's tournament, great that someone does something for the NA/SA scen, but I don't think a lot of Europeans will watch low tier "up and coming" NA players. Also the viewers that only want to see good games will be missing as well. But I wish the tournament all the best.
Depends on how it's presented. It will likely fail if you try to sell it on the quality of games alone, because likely the games won't be up to the level of the top. But if you try to personify the people behind the IDs, the storylines, the struggles, and the triumphs, then you create long-term fans of the players.
Good play does create fans, but in my opinion a lot of those fans are more volatile. If the fans don't really know the person behind the ID, when the good play stops, often times so does the fandom. But if you know the person and their story behind the ID, then often times the fans will stick it out for the player even during rough times and slumps.
Hopefully ShoutCraft can do that for some of these players.
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On May 04 2013 03:13 Fries wrote:
My bad assuming that was directed towards me. Although I hesitate to say that AM players don't "deserve" to have that much money. In my opinion the market should drive that.
You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition.
You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't.
I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
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You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition.
You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't.
I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said WCS NA would have better viewership than WCS Korea, all I said was skill won't necessarily always correlate with who gets paid. It's like that in all walks of life and you may not think it's fair but that's how business works.
I believe that monetary reward would help foster growth in American e-sports, yes. As it becomes more lucrative, people are more accepting of it as a profession and more people are willing to to give it a shot. Do you think Koreans are just naturally born being good at Starcraft? I don't believe that for a second just as I don't believe Americans are born being better than other countries at basketball, a sport they dominated for a loooooong time. I think (and I admit this is an assumption on my part) that there are probably far more young Koreans who aspire to be a professional SC2 gamer than there are in NA.
To me this mentality on how NA players should get better is like taking an amateur tennis player and immediately throwing them up against Rafael Nadal and yelling "HOW COME YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARDER! GET BETTER!" at them as they curl into the fetal position and start crying.
Of course there have been a very few players from the scene who have managed to hold their own against Koreans and I have all the respect in the world for them, but I can't imagine how soul-crushingly hopeless it probably seems to a lot of aspiring SC2 players to think that in order to make almost any significant money you have to be able to beat someone like Oz.
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On May 04 2013 03:56 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 03:13 Fries wrote:
My bad assuming that was directed towards me. Although I hesitate to say that AM players don't "deserve" to have that much money. In my opinion the market should drive that. You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition. You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't. I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
I believe the scene in Korea is way better for training than the scene in NA. I also think that if they made it so you had to live in the region you could potentially see more Korean players moving to the US to play, which would improve the training environment greatly in NA. I don't think you can really say NA players are bad because there's a lacking scene, but there's definitely a better scene in EU and KR, and NA has to find a way to catch up.
In it's current state, WCS AM is a complete clusterfuck though. The NA players who really want to get better go to Korea and have to compete in WCS AM with lag. The players who don't have that drive stay at home and lose to Korean players who are also playing with lag. The way the tournament was seeded is ridiculous and didn't reward talent, but name recognition (unless your name is DeMuslim, then you just got fucked over completely). The Chinese scene was eliminated by poor administration (which feels absurd to even type). It's really unclear what they want from this tournament - it feels in some ways they want the best of the best (huge prizepool, anyone from anywhere can play), but they also want to develop the NA scene (seeding tons of well recognized NA players, forcing anyone outside of the region to play with lag - even when their opponents have to as well). Trying to do both things at once though is impossible, and there's a reason why WCS AM has been the shittiest region to watch by far. Now that MajOr is out I probably won't watch much more, except maybe IdrA's games to see if he says anything funny (I'm a terrible person, I know.).
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On May 04 2013 04:15 Fries wrote:Show nested quote +
You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition.
You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't.
I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
To me this mentality on how NA players should get better is like taking an amateur tennis player and immediately throwing them up against Rafael Nadal and yelling "HOW COME YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARDER! GET BETTER!" at them as they curl into the fetal position and start crying.
That's not what's happening though. Nadal and Federer would be, what, Life, Flash, Innovation, sOs, Parting? Apocalypse, moonglade and Thestc are good, but they are nowhere near the equivalent level. Being able to beat Apocalypse is more being able to beat Seppi or Gilles Simon (not even that, they would still be too high, I don't know tennis enough to find the right names). Still not easy, but a good challenge.
My point is, I doubt your aspiring young american feels it's harder to beat Apocalypse than to beat Minigun, just because one is korean and the other isn't.
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The EU scene is not that different from the NA scene, EU players just work harder
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The problem here is, there is a scene in Korea, I cannot deny it, but people seem to believe that there are no Koreans who fail. Check out how many fantastic Korean players do FAIL and do nothing. They don'T get sallary. They pay to train in team houses. Obviously their structure and higher-level (in general) allows for better players and higher calibre players, but if you really believe any NA player that tries to be pro does sacrifice more than a Korean trying to become pro... really? Thats just untrue.
I am ALL FOR(!) investing into NA and EU, as I mentioned before, host teamleagues, player-leagues that are not MAJOR but minor, maximum ~25k as price money and that take part over a certain amount of time and can be either very good in price-distrubition or even locally restricted. But hosting a MAJOR tournamnet such as WCS and blame Koreans for taking the spots if they have the chance is.. absurd.
I mean, can anyone blame them? If EU was easier than NA, you can bet your ass everyone from NA would have switched and not a single person would have cried.
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On May 04 2013 04:15 Fries wrote:Show nested quote +
You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition.
You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't.
I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said WCS NA would have better viewership than WCS Korea, all I said was skill won't necessarily always correlate with who gets paid. It's like that in all walks of life and you may not think it's fair but that's how business works. I believe that monetary reward would help foster growth in American e-sports, yes. As it becomes more lucrative, people are more accepting of it as a profession and more people are willing to to give it a shot. Do you think Koreans are just naturally born being good at Starcraft? I don't believe that for a second just as I don't believe Americans are born being better than other countries at basketball, a sport they dominated for a loooooong time. I think (and I admit this is an assumption on my part) that there are probably far more young Koreans who aspire to be a professional SC2 gamer than there are in NA. To me this mentality on how NA players should get better is like taking an amateur tennis player and immediately throwing them up against Rafael Nadal and yelling "HOW COME YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARDER! GET BETTER!" at them as they curl into the fetal position and start crying. Of course there have been a very few players from the scene who have managed to hold their own against Koreans and I have all the respect in the world for them, but I can't imagine how soul-crushingly hopeless it probably seems to a lot of aspiring SC2 players to think that in order to make almost any significant money you have to be able to beat someone like Oz.
Absurdly false. Fast twitch muscle fibers.
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On May 04 2013 05:04 heartagram wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 04:15 Fries wrote:
You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition.
You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't.
I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said WCS NA would have better viewership than WCS Korea, all I said was skill won't necessarily always correlate with who gets paid. It's like that in all walks of life and you may not think it's fair but that's how business works. I believe that monetary reward would help foster growth in American e-sports, yes. As it becomes more lucrative, people are more accepting of it as a profession and more people are willing to to give it a shot. Do you think Koreans are just naturally born being good at Starcraft? I don't believe that for a second just as I don't believe Americans are born being better than other countries at basketball, a sport they dominated for a loooooong time. I think (and I admit this is an assumption on my part) that there are probably far more young Koreans who aspire to be a professional SC2 gamer than there are in NA. To me this mentality on how NA players should get better is like taking an amateur tennis player and immediately throwing them up against Rafael Nadal and yelling "HOW COME YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARDER! GET BETTER!" at them as they curl into the fetal position and start crying. Of course there have been a very few players from the scene who have managed to hold their own against Koreans and I have all the respect in the world for them, but I can't imagine how soul-crushingly hopeless it probably seems to a lot of aspiring SC2 players to think that in order to make almost any significant money you have to be able to beat someone like Oz. Absurdly false. Fast twitch muscle fibers.
I don't even know where to start with this one.
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On May 04 2013 04:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 04:15 Fries wrote:
You know who deserves money? PEOPLE WORKING FOR IT. Do you really believe WCS AM as you wish, would gather half as much viewers as WCS with Koreans involved? You have to be kidding me! I will happily cheer for every player from NA and EU in WCS if they can stand their own ground and show good games. I will on the other hand not credit anyone who begs for money pumped into the scene while trying to cut competition.
You really believe NA skill ceiling does raise when you don't need to raise it and still can win 100k? I don't think so. A good horse jumps as high as needed, not a bit higher. Both scenes, Europe and NA did breed players that were capable of taking down good Koreans - why can't other rise to that level? Do you really believe its because there'S a lacking scene? Because I don't.
I for my part don't watch a single WCS NA game, just because I don't want to support MLG after the major fuckup and I don't support that behaviour.
To me this mentality on how NA players should get better is like taking an amateur tennis player and immediately throwing them up against Rafael Nadal and yelling "HOW COME YOU'RE NOT TRYING HARDER! GET BETTER!" at them as they curl into the fetal position and start crying. That's not what's happening though. Nadal and Federer would be, what, Life, Flash, Innovation, sOs, Parting? Apocalypse, moonglade and Thestc are good, but they are nowhere near the equivalent level. Being able to beat Apocalypse is more being able to beat Seppi or Gilles Simon (not even that, they would still be too high, I don't know tennis enough to find the right names). Still not easy, but a good challenge. My point is, I doubt your aspiring young american feels it's harder to beat Apocalypse than to beat Minigun, just become one is korean and the other isn't.
The main problem I have with people who claim that on the one hand it is unfair to pit Minigun and Vibe against top koreans (or even not-so-top) and expect them to succeed (a fair statement), but on the other hand expect them to be competing for a gigantic prize pool.
No. If you're a little league player you get little league prizes. Blizzard clearly doesn't want players in the WCS AM to be sheltered and has an open market model to winning the prize money. There is clearly demand from other regions to come and "steal" the AM prize, just as Nadal, Federer and Djokovic come over and win the US Open every year.
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On May 04 2013 02:58 Fries wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 02:46 Type|NarutO wrote:On May 04 2013 02:44 Fries wrote:
But as far as I know they're not actually coming to the region. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the majority playing online then flying over to NA to play the offline matches and then flying back to their usual practice environments with some easy money in their pockets. I do agree with you Tobon that it could get better if it did keep these players within the scene and hopefully if nothing else that happens.
Like DarkLord said, I'm speaking exclusively about raising the level of play outside of Korea. If one of the goals of Blizzard is to help grow E-sports in other regions, I don't see how this does it.
I applaud Blizzard for trying to pump money into the different regions, but in my mind I think it would work best like this:
Blizzard throws in their contribution to the prize-pool evenly distributed like it currently is. That way each region has a sort of "minimum wage" if you will. But don't cut off players in other regions from possibly making even more money. Set that up as a base and allow the prize-pools to grow from there. The region with the most viewers, sponsorships, etc will end up with a bigger prize-pool and that's exactly as it should be. A sort of minor league system develops where players that aren't good enough quite yet for the Korean league come here to play and hopefully make a decent living. When they're a little better they go to EU because there might be more money there and slightly higher competition and Korea is the big leagues. The region with the highest skill ceiling and quality should have the biggest price pool. No. The region that makes the most money should have the biggest prize pool. Ideally the two would be the same but that's not how you run a business, which is what a league is.
Makes sense, but plz run it better, or at least equally good as GSL, since MLG and ESL will profit a lot from this.
At least make it offline for all matches in premier league.
Can you imagine MLG's profit margin on this WCS deal compared to Gomtv? MLG invests so little into this compared to Gom, but they can easily have more viewers.
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