• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:16
CET 18:16
KST 02:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
PC Games Sales Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1410 users

NASL Week 5 Day 5 - Page 74

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 78 Next
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
May 16 2011 05:25 GMT
#1461
You gotta be on something to call a one-sample population 'statistics'.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 05:26:42
May 16 2011 05:26 GMT
#1462
Well, Sen is considered the better ZvZ player.

That said, even with all the external factors we know or don't know about (Idra's lack of practice in the week beforehand, Sen playing from Taiwan on the NA server etc etc), I had this pegged as a toss-up.


People trying to argue that one or the other player was the clear favourite confound me.
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
May 16 2011 05:29 GMT
#1463
On May 16 2011 13:31 FLuE wrote:
Show nested quote +
He'll not win any major tournament if he keeps going like this. All his opponents loses when they get beat; he loses when he feels he's behind. That's a major handicap.


First off, he just won a major tournament so... ok moving on from that.

Second, I too am a person who wishes he would play it out but the fact of the matter is the guy has played a TON more professional games than you, and he knows his limits, play style, and personal mentality. He doesn't like playing from behind it seems, he knows the situations he doesn't feel he can win from, and it seems he doesn't feel like playing those games out, losing anyway, and then getting frustrated.

Seems to me, someone with his experience has figured out "I'm better to get out, regroup, and try to win the next one." Notice how he doesn't GG as fast in match deciding games, he'll fight a bit more, but early in a series I can see it just frustrating him and moving on to the next game quickly helps him put it behind him.

I mean, nobody talks about the times he "GGs" fast and then wins 2 or 3 games in a row.

There are other advantages to quicker GG's in games you are most likely going to lose. You don't let your opponent start to feel really good or get into a rhythm. You don't waste your own mental energy trying to struggle from a position you can't win from just getting more frustrated. You don't get out of rhythm yourself trying to do crazy strats you don't normally do to try to come back.

So it is what he does, it is his style, it clearly works for him being one of a small handful of the people on the planet making a living doing this. Seems like he knows himself and that will ultimately make him a stronger competitor.

Hmm notice how I said "he'll not win...", as in, win future tournaments.. I knew he has won before. Also, IPL Season One wasn't really a big tournament by any stretch of imagination.

You can make as many excuses as you want for him; but the fact of the matter is if he stays in the game there is a chance of winning ( > 0%). I don't need to play as many games as he has to know that. I also don't need to play so many games to know that giving up/quitting is a horrible attitude to have.

d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
May 16 2011 05:31 GMT
#1464
Did you watch the game? It was over. If Sen's mouse and keyboard got unplugged and while plugging them in he accidentally set his hands on fire than maybe he could've won the game, but even then it would've been close.
Hi.
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
May 16 2011 05:31 GMT
#1465
Sen trains on KR. The skill gap can only widen from this point on..
As evident from his stream, NA ladder is too easy for IdrA and I'm not sure his teammates are that much of a help either..
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
May 16 2011 05:32 GMT
#1466
On May 16 2011 14:31 d(O.o)a wrote:
Did you watch the game? It was over. If Sen's mouse and keyboard got unplugged and while plugging them in he accidentally set his hands on fire than maybe he could've won the game, but even then it would've been close.

The 2nd game wasn't over.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
May 16 2011 05:35 GMT
#1467
On May 16 2011 14:32 TheGreenBee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 14:31 d(O.o)a wrote:
Did you watch the game? It was over. If Sen's mouse and keyboard got unplugged and while plugging them in he accidentally set his hands on fire than maybe he could've won the game, but even then it would've been close.

The 2nd game wasn't over.


Idra's only advantage was his 5 extra drones which were nullified by sen's extra hatchery and queen.

Sen had 8+ roaches vs. idras 8 or less lings, idra had no banked money so he would've had to wait to expand and even so he was behind in tech so when those roaches come he has no answer to it, and his expansion is behind if sen chooses to sit and drone up, idra's only chance was to make a ridiculous amount of lings/banes and hope that sen chooses to go 100% drone (even though it's not 100% that he wins because of the queen/roaches), which sen is too good to make the mistake of doing.
Hi.
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
May 16 2011 05:38 GMT
#1468
On May 16 2011 14:35 d(O.o)a wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 14:32 TheGreenBee wrote:
On May 16 2011 14:31 d(O.o)a wrote:
Did you watch the game? It was over. If Sen's mouse and keyboard got unplugged and while plugging them in he accidentally set his hands on fire than maybe he could've won the game, but even then it would've been close.

The 2nd game wasn't over.


Idra's only advantage was his 5 extra drones which were nullified by sen's extra hatchery and queen.

Sen had 8+ roaches vs. idras 8 or less lings, idra had no banked money so he would've had to wait to expand and even so he was behind in tech so when those roaches come he has no answer to it, and his expansion is behind if sen chooses to sit and drone up, idra's only chance was to make a ridiculous amount of lings/banes and hope that sen chooses to go 100% drone (even though it's not 100% that he wins because of the queen/roaches), which sen is too good to make the mistake of doing.


This proves nothing. It's one in a million scenarios that might happen. A lot of ifs.

Like I said, it wasn't over.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
May 16 2011 05:39 GMT
#1469
On May 16 2011 14:38 TheGreenBee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 14:35 d(O.o)a wrote:
On May 16 2011 14:32 TheGreenBee wrote:
On May 16 2011 14:31 d(O.o)a wrote:
Did you watch the game? It was over. If Sen's mouse and keyboard got unplugged and while plugging them in he accidentally set his hands on fire than maybe he could've won the game, but even then it would've been close.

The 2nd game wasn't over.


Idra's only advantage was his 5 extra drones which were nullified by sen's extra hatchery and queen.

Sen had 8+ roaches vs. idras 8 or less lings, idra had no banked money so he would've had to wait to expand and even so he was behind in tech so when those roaches come he has no answer to it, and his expansion is behind if sen chooses to sit and drone up, idra's only chance was to make a ridiculous amount of lings/banes and hope that sen chooses to go 100% drone (even though it's not 100% that he wins because of the queen/roaches), which sen is too good to make the mistake of doing.


This proves nothing. It's one in a million scenarios that might happen. A lot of ifs.

Like I said, it wasn't over.


Explain to me how Idra could've won that game please
Hi.
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 05:42:41
May 16 2011 05:42 GMT
#1470
My argument wasn't that IdrA had the game in the bag. My point is he should've stayed because the game wasn't over. If he played it out then maybe he can make something happen. Quitter = bad!

Just for an example, I've seen CatZ made comebacks from real big deficits.

You never know what's gonna happen if you don't play it out.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 05:44:28
May 16 2011 05:44 GMT
#1471
On May 16 2011 14:42 TheGreenBee wrote:
My argument wasn't that IdrA had the game in the bag. My point is he should've stayed because the game wasn't over. If he played it out then maybe he can make something happen. Quitter = bad!

Just for an example, I've seen CatZ made comebacks from real big deficits.

You never know what's gonna happen if you don't play it out.


And I didn't imply that you said he had the game in the bag I just want you to tell me a foreseeable situation where Sen's tech/Hatchery/Queen/army advantage doesn't win him the game.
Hi.
Fatalize
Profile Joined January 2011
France5210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 05:45:41
May 16 2011 05:45 GMT
#1472
On May 16 2011 14:42 TheGreenBee wrote:
My argument wasn't that IdrA had the game in the bag. My point is he should've stayed because the game wasn't over. If he played it out then maybe he can make something happen. Quitter = bad!

Just for an example, I've seen CatZ made comebacks from real big deficits.

You never know what's gonna happen if you don't play it out.




Using CatZ as a proof .... lol

CatZ vs Sen, i'm pretty sure he wont make any comeback.
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
May 16 2011 05:48 GMT
#1473
I didn't use it as a proof. learn2read. I said it's an example of why people should play the game out.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
May 16 2011 05:52 GMT
#1474
On May 16 2011 14:48 TheGreenBee wrote:
I didn't use it as a proof. learn2read. I said it's an example of why people should play the game out.


Stop sidestepping my question, how could idra possibly have won that game without Sen suffering from extreme dehydration and having to go to the kitchen to get some water but on his way he looks out the window and sees a very cute stray puppy in his front yard, he then goes out to go help the puppy and see if it has a home. After spending 40 minutes returning the puppy home he walks back to the kitchen, pours a huge glass of water but puts it on the counter and knocks it over and has to clean up the spill then pours another glass and drinks it before returning to the computer.

In that situation it is I suppose at least possible idra could've won.
Hi.
TheGreenBee
Profile Joined February 2011
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 05:57:23
May 16 2011 05:54 GMT
#1475
I am not side stepping your question. I just don't see how it'll add value to my argument. I can describe a thousand scenarios but so what? It's a lot of what ifs. I just want IdrA to play the game out and whatever happens, happens.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 05:57:50
May 16 2011 05:57 GMT
#1476
On May 16 2011 14:54 TheGreenBee wrote:
I am not side stepping your question. I just don't see how it'll add value to my argument. I can describe a thousand scenarios but so what? It's a lot of what ifs. I just want IdrA to play the game out and what happens, happens.


Yeah but I want you to describe a scenario to me that is actually REALISTIC considering both of them are PROS and are not going to make sloppy mistakes. If you're going to assume idras plays it perfectly you can only assume sen does as well.

Also it won't at value, it will add legitimacy.
Hi.
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
May 16 2011 05:58 GMT
#1477
requesting fantasy gg timing can be dangerous
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
May 16 2011 06:25 GMT
#1478
On May 16 2011 14:29 TheGreenBee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 13:31 FLuE wrote:
He'll not win any major tournament if he keeps going like this. All his opponents loses when they get beat; he loses when he feels he's behind. That's a major handicap.


First off, he just won a major tournament so... ok moving on from that.

Second, I too am a person who wishes he would play it out but the fact of the matter is the guy has played a TON more professional games than you, and he knows his limits, play style, and personal mentality. He doesn't like playing from behind it seems, he knows the situations he doesn't feel he can win from, and it seems he doesn't feel like playing those games out, losing anyway, and then getting frustrated.

Seems to me, someone with his experience has figured out "I'm better to get out, regroup, and try to win the next one." Notice how he doesn't GG as fast in match deciding games, he'll fight a bit more, but early in a series I can see it just frustrating him and moving on to the next game quickly helps him put it behind him.

I mean, nobody talks about the times he "GGs" fast and then wins 2 or 3 games in a row.

There are other advantages to quicker GG's in games you are most likely going to lose. You don't let your opponent start to feel really good or get into a rhythm. You don't waste your own mental energy trying to struggle from a position you can't win from just getting more frustrated. You don't get out of rhythm yourself trying to do crazy strats you don't normally do to try to come back.

So it is what he does, it is his style, it clearly works for him being one of a small handful of the people on the planet making a living doing this. Seems like he knows himself and that will ultimately make him a stronger competitor.

Hmm notice how I said "he'll not win...", as in, win future tournaments.. I knew he has won before. Also, IPL Season One wasn't really a big tournament by any stretch of imagination.

You can make as many excuses as you want for him; but the fact of the matter is if he stays in the game there is a chance of winning ( > 0%). I don't need to play as many games as he has to know that. I also don't need to play so many games to know that giving up/quitting is a horrible attitude to have.



IPL was a really stacked tournament. Winning that is as big if not bigger than winning an MLG.
Dead girls don't say no.
lbmaian
Profile Joined December 2010
United States689 Posts
May 16 2011 06:29 GMT
#1479
I think all this "was IdrA favored vs Sen" talk should go in the IdrA fanclub. Both IdrA fans and anti-IdrA fans like to congregate there...
Swede
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand853 Posts
May 16 2011 06:30 GMT
#1480
On May 16 2011 14:54 TheGreenBee wrote:
I am not side stepping your question. I just don't see how it'll add value to my argument. I can describe a thousand scenarios but so what? It's a lot of what ifs. I just want IdrA to play the game out and whatever happens, happens.


Well, describe the likeliest scenario you can think of in which IdrA wins, and then think about just how likely it actually is. It might help us understand what you think are reasonable odds to stick around for.
Prev 1 72 73 74 75 76 78 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
17:00
#102
YoungYakov vs Jumy
TriGGeR vs Spirit
RotterdaM420
Liquipedia
OSC
14:00
King of the Hill #234
SteadfastSC87
Liquipedia
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Playoffs
ShoWTimE vs CureLIVE!
ComeBackTV 1036
IndyStarCraft 869
TaKeTV 621
Rex149
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 933
Lowko519
RotterdaM 394
Rex 149
SteadfastSC 87
Liquid`VortiX 87
BRAT_OK 42
MindelVK 18
DivinesiaTV 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25581
Calm 2967
Bisu 2147
Rain 1738
Horang2 687
actioN 519
Stork 491
Shuttle 362
Larva 137
firebathero 137
[ Show more ]
Mini 118
910 116
Hyun 110
Mind 69
Zeus 58
JYJ 53
ggaemo 45
Killer 43
Aegong 42
Mong 33
Shinee 26
JulyZerg 25
Yoon 17
soO 16
sorry 13
GoRush 13
Sacsri 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6000
singsing4178
qojqva3059
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Foxcn66
Super Smash Bros
Westballz30
Other Games
FrodaN727
hiko529
crisheroes362
XaKoH 136
KnowMe109
Trikslyr70
Chillindude36
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3716
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
3h 44m
SHIN vs ByuN
Reynor vs Classic
TBD vs herO
Maru vs SHIN
TBD vs Classic
CranKy Ducklings
16h 44m
WardiTV 2025
17h 44m
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
19h 14m
Ladder Legends
1d 1h
BSL 21
1d 2h
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
Ladder Legends
1d 23h
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.