|
Hello, guys.
I'm really sorry but I couldn't find a recent topic about this that answers my questions.
I have the following issues when facing proxy gates in TvP:
- what is a good way to react to a dual proxy gate zealots (like 10/10). followed by stalkers/cannon towers.
- what is a good way to react to a 1gate zealot pressure
Especially the second one. I've encountered those so much times @ ladder and I always lose. I've had practice partners do it to me and I lose, even when I know it's coming. I have no idea how to deal with that efficiently. I've heard there was a game like that @ GSL1 where the terran fended it off but I'm not sure which game that is.
I've had decent success defending with a bunker but I always seem to come out behind economically (always lose a few scvs). It's almost the same thing with stopping gas and getting a fast 2rax to walloff and pump out marines.
I'm not really sure if my problem is just micro or is it a combination of micro and a better response because it seems insanely hard to defend.
here is a replay where I get crushed by 1gate zealot, trying to defend with a bunker and getting a reaper after 2 marines
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=160856#/replay_overview
tl;dr how do you handle proxy gate zealot pressure as terran
|
That build in your replay is particularly strong on Steppes Of War and maybe your first scout should check the proxy gateway locations first instead of going straight to enemy base. Maybe you should also consider wall-in on this map. Many early cheese builds are optimized for specific maps and you should find the best solutions for each map in part instead of a general "anti-cheese" BO deviation. Sorry if I'm not that helpful...
|
Dont really need to bunker, send 5 scvs to the choke u made with rax/depo turn them on auto-repair. And you can fend off 5 zealots with 1 marine. If he will go into gateway play. Then he wont have a robo, no robo = no detection. Put a bunker or two up the ramp and go cloaked banshee (make 2 or even 1) into 3 rax expansion and switch add-ons starport/with rax and make reactor on starport for medivacs.
|
I would only wall-in at maps where your wall-in is really close to your mineral line so it's easy to defend from probe harass, ie. only wall in at metalopolis and perhaps LT.
All other maps it's important to NOT wall-in but instead build the depot and rax close to your mineral line, this is important because it makes probe harass easier to stop and helps against zealot harass as you create a pocket for your marine to defend from.
As for stopping early zealot play, there are offcourse 2 versions as you described.
The first version (dual proxy 10/10) is a cheese and stopped by scouting it on time and getting a bunker that covers your mineral line fast. I'll presume your starting with a standard, 12 rax 13 ref build so by the time you scout this you should be just having finished your rax. Instead of getting the orbital command make a bunker and a scv while also getting your marine. Use extra scv's if neccesary to get up the bunker and just load it up with your marines. After 4 marines in that bunker get a tech lab and make marauders with shells, once they are done you can start kiting the protoss and beat it off. Dual proxy is easy to stop as long as you scout it in time, if you scout it too late you can simply be lost but that's the case with any cheese. If you fear it you can always scout a bit earlier or scout the popular proxy spots to make sure you prepare in time (ie. get that bunker out before the zealots arrive).
The 2nd version of 1 gate zealot pressure is easy to stop by getting a fast marauder with shells after your first marine. If you don't want to spend gas on that you can simply use marines and use the pocket in your base (or your wall-in) to protect your rines while you focus the zealot.
|
I've come close but never lost to a proxy gate. My first game (4/1 just place into gold ) I face a diamond level toss that tried to proxy me.
In TvP and TvZ I still wall off on small maps. This may be trouble for the higher than my 1100 diamond level play but say they do probe harass, I just send an scv to follow their probe. It saves me apm and forces them to focus on their probe. It also saves my scv on the rax. If they do harass with a probe, they are going to show you they are proxying by then moving out and building a gateway. If they wait to harass until they have one or more gateways building, you should have your rax pretty well going or built. Having this wall up has saved me from EVERY proxy that has happened.
The last proxy that happened that comes to mind was on delta quadrant. I just got my wall up when two zealots start knocking at my door. At the time, I had 1 marine but was able to fend it off by building a few more and repair the wall. I was building a second barracks when the attack hit and it was about done so I pumped out two extra rines and plopped down two tech labs. From here I fended off the push while building some reapers. Once the reapers popped, I took out the pylon and pushed into his base. After kiting the zealots to death with reapers it was gg as his new building is his base were just about done but so was his probe line.
|
I JUUUUUUST got gate/canon proxy rushed on xel naga cavern. He was plat, but like 16-3, played like a nerd for lack of being able to use a more colorful word.
I never think to scout proxy much anymore (my fault) and he proxy rushes me. I normal 15 oc open, to take guys off gas and make another rax and bunker. He canon pushes + zealot harasses.
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php I dont know how to post links. My name on that page is the replay. He followed up with going void rays.
I'm 1720 diamond if it makes it worth anything... take it with a grain of salt though, points don't mean a ton.
In case you don't want to watch -- I go marauders. And exploit their range and snipe out ANYTHING you can. If you get shells and a couple maras out, and a bunker as a 'haven' you're golden. After a proxy gate, assume void rays, as it's the cheesy toss bifecta. Marauder marine viking deals quite well with this kind of toss. I haven't faced a proxy in ages, so sorry for the stupid not blocking or scouting for it lol
|
On October 27 2010 06:33 Markwerf wrote:
I would only wall-in at maps where your wall-in is really close to your mineral line so it's easy to defend from probe harass, ie. only wall in at metalopolis and perhaps LT.
All other maps it's important to NOT wall-in but instead build the depot and rax close to your mineral line, this is important because it makes probe harass easier to stop and helps against zealot harass as you create a pocket for your marine to defend from.
As for stopping early zealot play, there are offcourse 2 versions as you described.
The first version (dual proxy 10/10) is a cheese and stopped by scouting it on time and getting a bunker that covers your mineral line fast. I'll presume your starting with a standard, 12 rax 13 ref build so by the time you scout this you should be just having finished your rax. Instead of getting the orbital command make a bunker and a scv while also getting your marine. Use extra scv's if neccesary to get up the bunker and just load it up with your marines. After 4 marines in that bunker get a tech lab and make marauders with shells, once they are done you can start kiting the protoss and beat it off. Dual proxy is easy to stop as long as you scout it in time, if you scout it too late you can simply be lost but that's the case with any cheese. If you fear it you can always scout a bit earlier or scout the popular proxy spots to make sure you prepare in time (ie. get that bunker out before the zealots arrive).
The 2nd version of 1 gate zealot pressure is easy to stop by getting a fast marauder with shells after your first marine. If you don't want to spend gas on that you can simply use marines and use the pocket in your base (or your wall-in) to protect your rines while you focus the zealot.
so, basically, it's mostly just micro and I'm a moron? xD
|
No, I'm a 1600 diamond and I still lose to it for some reason. If some diamond players wouldn't mind uploading a rep or two defending a 1 or 2 gate proxy, that would be great. My problem is that I can always hold it initally but I end up losing too many scvs which kills me later.
|
I've started killing the gates with scvs until I can get a rax and bunker out (in front of their gates).
and I wall off on 2player maps.
it's been working well but I'm not sure it's the optimal way to counter proxy gates
|
Don't let more than one zealot get in and you'll be fine. Just pull 5 scvs per with your marine, and pull back each scv as it takes the 2nd hit from the zeal. Easypeezy :D
|
On November 10 2010 19:01 superbabosheki wrote:
Don't let more than one zealot get in and you'll be fine. Just pull 5 scvs per with your marine, and pull back each scv as it takes the 2nd hit from the zeal. Easypeezy :D
what happens with inbase proxy 2gate D:
|
On November 10 2010 19:33 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 19:01 superbabosheki wrote:
Don't let more than one zealot get in and you'll be fine. Just pull 5 scvs per with your marine, and pull back each scv as it takes the 2nd hit from the zeal. Easypeezy :D what happens with inbase proxy 2gate D:
can be scouted
if you do, this is an auto-loss for him as you can pull SCVs to kill the pylons AND the probe
|
you can't kill the probe.
and he can build more pylons once he gets some minerals (which you don't get if you're killing buildings with scvs)
|
I think it depends on where the gateway is. One very hard to deal with proxy is when they put a pylon outside your base (where the base is on another level) and then build the gateway inside your base. You cant take down the gateway with workers and the pylon is a huge walk to get to. In such a case you would need a bunker I think.
|
there are a few scenarios.
if you don't scout his proxy and go straight to his base and see no gateways, just put down a bunker IMMEDIATELY somewhere close to your scvs and depots (the building placement management is crucial here, try to learn put buildings close to each other in the beggining). then it depends on your build, you can go fast starport for cloak banshee tech and it's mostly autowin.
if you scout the proxy, if it's 1 gate, go the same as in previous scenario but banshee isn't autowin anymore because he didn't commit that much. if it's 2gate, go the same thing again.
if it;s 2gate in your base and you scout it (if not you're dead), you can either pull like 6-7 scvs and kill the gateways (NOT the pylons), or what i prefer cancel gas and put down 2nd barax, then immediately when first rax is done, start building a bunker close to his gateways so you can shoot them down.
also the micro is obviously important here, try not to lose scvs, and with marines you can semi-succesfully kite the zealots
|
Proxies inbase is the real thread. U can often build a pylon and build the gates in a way that it protects the pylon. Once u see this, u cannot effecitvly go for the pylon, but have to attack the gates.
Its really about getting marauder out after 2-3 rines and have bunkers at spots where it protects your cc AND you mineral line, since a cannon rush after the first 3-5 Zealots is a deadly followup.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
