|
This map was 'inspired' by Starcraft 1 Brood War map Melting Pot
+ Show Spoiler +Author: BWMN (CrystalDrag, Freakling, Gnom, K_A, KinosJourney, Phobic) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wDg22Gu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OVr2aeS.png)
Brood War Maps! + Show Spoiler +I made this map for learning purposes. I was pondering far thirds with small chokes when I came across this, and decided to port it. There were many dynamics of this layout that i'd missed before building it in the editor. Overall later broodmar maps have a crisp sense of purpose and layout that I admire very much.
Bounds 140x140
Publish: NA
Natural
+ Show Spoiler +
Third + Bridge
+ Show Spoiler +
FFE
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Not sure how it would work from a balance stand point - but adding a red colored psi-storm in the absolute middle be sweet. I doubt it's possible though :|
|
Might as well add a download link to the original map, in case anyone here actually still plays BW lol.
I like the map, I think the dynamic of alternating wide open spaces/narrow chokes plus far 3rds has the potential to work very well in SC2 - in fact I'm working on something very similar (check WIP map thread a couple pages back). One possible problem here, though, is that not only the thirds are fairly choked but the area in front of that choke is also quite narrow, so Z has to intercept the P/T army quite far away from their own third in order to avoid fighting at a significant disadvantage.
|
The way you decorate air space with that terrain layer shit - omg it's so fucking sexy. I wish more mappers did this and it became standard; it looks so fucking awesome. Really sick map, mang. I hope (Protoss players get destroyed on it) that it works out well gameplay wise.
|
Im going to agree with qwyn. Toss will die because the choke is so awkward and large to FFE. Even if you had gateway expanded, the 3rd bases are almost impossible to defend.
|
United Kingdom12057 Posts
On December 12 2013 17:53 iMrising wrote:
Im going to agree with qwyn. Toss will die because the choke is so awkward and large to FFE. Even if you had gateway expanded, the 3rd bases are almost impossible to defend.
Both third bases have smallish ramps going up to them. Sentries can hold off that indefinately until your army can move there to defend.
|
quite a nice looking map but I don't like how the rocks/cliffs are so....tidy(?)
|
I don't see any Protoss try to take a 3rd, even with the small choke it is still better to just 2 base all in.
|
Why not scoot the 3/4 bases over towards the wall more so the minerals aren't hanging out awkwardly?
Protoss will have to use forcefield at the bridges outside between the wide center area to take a 3rd, so I would probably go to the middle base instead of the far base. It's not that bad if you can successfully push the zerg out of your center quadrant and keep an eye on their movements. If.
|
On December 12 2013 13:30 -NegativeZero- wrote:
One possible problem here, though, is that not only the thirds are fairly choked but the area in front of that choke is also quite narrow, so Z has to intercept the P/T army quite far away from their own third in order to avoid fighting at a significant disadvantage.
Due to the nature of the layout - in regards to your main; 1 third is before a bridge, and 1 third is after a bridge. The choke in front of the 3rds ramp is compensation for not having the bridge advantage when taking one of the thirds. With that said i did move the ramp at the third back one or two spaces.
On December 12 2013 17:53 iMrising wrote:
Im going to agree with qwyn. Toss will die because the choke is so awkward and large to FFE. Even if you had gateway expanded, the 3rd bases are almost impossible to defend.
I added a ffe image to the main post. I dont think ffe is a problem.
The third bases are far from impossible to defend. I think most maps these days consist of bases too close together; specifically thirds from naturals are generally way too close. (akilon). The thirds on this map are far from the naturals, but only have one 4 hex ramp, which can easily be walled, force fielded and cannoned. Far thirds with small chokes means smaller armies can deal with larger armies when defending thirds assuming you are in position. It also means harass play is more efficient and less gimmicky. It also forces players to be concerned with the opponents army position, and promotes army split ups. Lastly is makes games more interesting, and the mid game more dynamic. I want to see delayed thirds with 2 base plays!!
On December 12 2013 23:42 EatThePath wrote:
Why not scoot the 3/4 bases over towards the wall more so the minerals aren't hanging out awkwardly?
Bases have been scooted! lol
On December 12 2013 22:11 moskonia wrote:
I don't see any Protoss try to take a 3rd, even with the small choke it is still better to just 2 base all in.
Its never better to just 2 base all in 
|
OH don't misunderstand me, rofl (should have used strikeout) iMrising - I was saying that "I hope Protoss players get destroyed on it, hehe).
Theoretically, it looks like Toss would have a far easier time holding the closed third than Terran - who might be better off rallying to the half third by the middle. I dunno about Zerg - it also seems like they would be better off taking the half third in the middle (it would be nice if those minerals were made gold just to offset the fact that some races can't really expand to the closed third - just a thought).
Protoss 4 gate pressure and other early pressures against a Zerg third taken at the closed third are probably going to be devastating. Look how long it take reinforcements to get there.
So if you just add one more mineral patch so that the open third could just sustain each race a bit more - then suddenly Protoss might want to expand to the closed third, and Terran and Zerg will have viable mid-term alternatives until they need to expand again.
|
Well you could use rocks. The defender is generally able to choose whether the rocks stay up, and can certainly choose to knock them down, so that could allow zerg for example to open it up a bit more while also creating a choke there somewhat like the bridge.
|
That is what I was thinking Gfire - but with different applications (rock blocking the ramp directly leading to the closed third!) My concerns mainly arise regarding Protoss 4 gate pressure - the warpgate mechanic negates early defenders advantage necessitating quick reinforcements! But look how long it takes for reinforcements to get to the closed third T_T. Of course this is all theoretical but I'm fairly confident that 4 gate pressures will destroy Zerg thirds left and right if they're taken at the closed third and Zerg doesn't overcommit to initial defense.
I really don't care about the other races - because they have a LOT of two base plays which are pretty good - allowing them to secure the third relatively early as long as they are not greedy (on gates/rax). But with Zerg -- the amount of options available to the race really only opens up when a third base is secure. Argue as you want ()that's the beauty of it) but it definitely will not be enjoyable for the swarm race, lol.
I mean it really just comes down to - if that's the way you want the closed thirds to be oriented (even if the ramps were just straight along the cardinal directions at 90 degree angles, that would help a bit more) then Zergs will just have to take the open third right next to the center. Just the way it's going to be, lol. It will be too difficult to take the closed base as anything but a fourth.
|
Qwyn
You do make a good point about early pressure against zerg. When messing with the 3/4 base resources its trickey because i dont want to make it too appealing. Players should be rewarded for taking the more difficult third. Perhaps adding a little more insensitive would be a good idea though. I like the idea of adding 1 min patch over making them gold?
|
Well more difficult depends entirely on race. If we're looking at the bottom left spawn:
The open third is the exposed one nearest the middle.
The closed third is to the right of the nat and has only one ramp.
As a Zerg player in ZvP or ZvT I would definitely want to take the open third over the closed third. When defending early Protoss pressures it's not how exposed the base is which matters - it's how fast reinforcements (and queens) can get to the third base. In the case of the exposed third near the middle - much faster. It's a straight shot instead of curving to the right exposing reinforcements to the attack path of the enemy.
In this map's case I don't see much except another ramp added facing the natural ramp changing that. But that would, of course, fuck up the dynamic which you are working towards.
This current dynamic is OK. Zergs take really fast 4th bases now - players will have to compensate somewhat since they can only get one gas and 5 patches. Adding a sixth patch is good too.
That open third is horrendously bad for Protoss, though - which is FINE. As I see it the closed third is very GOOD. I think that's enough space to work with that the Protoss army won't get caught out of position if it is diligent.
In the case of Terran - they're also going to take the open third over the closed third, IMO. The rally is a straight shot to the open third, but it is exposed if traveling to the closed one.
So IMO, the only race which would benefit from taking the closed third over the open one is Protoss, oddly enough.
- Terran players might benefit from walling off the bridge near the closed third allowing their rally to get there in time - just a thought. Of course in this situation Terran is probably the most flexible. Closed third could be done, but the open one might be a bit safer. Fun stuff!
|
When posting maps like this, I'd like it if people could credit the original creators of the BW map. I made BW maps myself in the day (and still fiddle around with the editor sometimes) and it's annoying to see the mapmakers not getting any credit.
|
On December 13 2013 08:06 neobowman wrote:
When posting maps like this, I'd like it if people could credit the original creators of the BW map. I made BW maps myself in the day (and still fiddle around with the editor sometimes) and it's annoying to see the mapmakers not getting any credit.
I would definitely agree -would be nice if you posted the maker and maybe even his map text along with the map stats alongside a picture of the original. Especially since there's still a lot of sick BW maps being posted these days.
|
I'm sorry. I didnt mean to cause a stir. I rightfully added the authors of the original map into the spoiler. Please forgive my ignorance when it comes to making posts, and also BW map making community. I want to pay full respect to the creators of the original map; its amazing.
I've never played BW, but I've watched many games. The play styles and maps are inspiring, and they motivate me to play and build sc2.
|
Not a problem. I just noticed some people doing that and I would feel annoyed if my map was reproduced without credit.
|
Looking at the FFE formatting...
you need a Cyber core, forge, and gateway, cannon, pylon (actually 2 to power everything) in order to close the whole natural. Thats 800 minerals if im not mistaken. Idk man...I just feel like 1 or 2 pixels smaller might be a good idea, but your call. 
I still want to say that you made a good map though, and what I say doesn't take that away from it.
edit: Yea i guess after thinking about it for a bit i guess its not as bad as i thought. sorry about that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wCsMktS.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xll1rYC.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sPtqVmE.png)
