Just for the curiosity, what is your all-time favorite map out of the 7 finalists? This isn't a poll asking which one you think will win, but simply asking which one is your favorite.
If you aren't fully aware of the maps, check them out in the link below: TL Map Contest Thread
I'd just like to say that right now Daggoth Crater will most likely be moving back to its original korhal tileset, with some minor layout changes and textural improvements. But anyway, vote on the current char version since that is all that has been posted.
I really like all these maps obviously, but I think the maps with the most potential to become the new standard map would be sanctuary and twilight. Very little gimmicks and easy to macro on while not ruling out aggressive play.
To be honest I don't like any of them. There's nothing creative about the bases placement. Most of them have the 3rd touching the main. Every custom map is like this nowadays, mappers seem to think it's standard but ladder maps aren't even like that.
Burning Altar : rocks are a useless gimmick and with so many chokes and ramps I'm sure terrans are favored. On close positions, if the terran spawns top left and the opponent spawns bottom left I think you can place tanks behind the rocks and get free shots when the other army is moving out.
Cloud Kingdom : again so many cliffs, it's easy for a terran to contain his opponent. The cliff is too close to the 3rd and overlooks a choke that seems smaller than the natural's choke, tanks or colossus can deny reinforcements while marines kill the expansion. And I don't like when smaller maps have so many bases because if you don't check for hidden bases and there's one you're screwed.
Daggoth Crater looks like a 2 player Antiga Shipyard, except the 3rd and the middle are on the low ground instead of high ground. Hardly creative.
Haven's Lagoon : the 3rd is way too far, any race will have problems defending against mutalisks and probably protoss the most. And what's the blue base in the middle supposed to be for ?
Ohana : the 3rd is really far, you have to break rocks and there's a huge air space behind for mutas/dropships to be safe. Not that it's imbalanced but I would hate to play protoss against mass muta.
Sanctuary : nothing creative about the bases placement, same old 3rd touching the main. Many chokes so it's hard to play against colossus or tanks.
Twilight Peaks : same old 3rd touching the main. Standard. Nothing new that would be appealing.
I didn't vote but if it was the official vote for the winner I would vote for Haven's Lagoon because it's the only way to change the current "metagame" in map mapping, and make mappers understand the first 3 bases don't necessarily have to be like this for a map to be balanced. In the beta every mapper was making left-right symmetry maps (calling it VARS if you remember) because they believed it was the only way to have a truly balanced map. Now every map is a 4 player rotational symmetry with the 3rd expansion touching the main, because mappers believe it's the only way to have balance and macro games. Maps should be creative.
Now every map is a 4 player rotational symmetry with the 3rd expansion touching the main, because mappers believe it's the only way to have balance and macro games. Maps should be creative.
You know this allows you to take a third depending where your opponent spawns, right? If you're Counter Clockwise to your opponent you can either take the 3rd that hugs against your main which will be expanding away from your enemy, or you can take a third in the other direction which will expand towards your enemy. That's why it works and that's why so many 4player maps have it. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon, you should think about why so many 4 player maps are setup like that and why they are generally the best maps out there.
Before you say look at shakuras, metal or shattered temple, you have to realize without forced positions those maps have a chance to be completely unplayable.
Sidian is correct, for any standard-ish 4p rotational there need to be ways to expand in both directions so one 3rd will always be hugging the main.
Also people who complain that the maps aren't super creative or new or whatever need to understand 4 things:
1) tournaments aren't willing to use super crazy new stuff cos they fear that its imbalanced, players don't like to play new crazy stuff cos they don't like to adapt and also think it's imbalanced very often; we mapmakers struggle since beta to get any tournament to use our maps! only the three koreans are in the lucky position to have GSL and GSL's excellent capabilities to test maps, ESV now has their korean weekly too and NASL will start using TPW maps; for the most part this was/is a major problem of the mapmaking scene tho, we don't have any good way to test new stuff and we don't have any tournaments who are willing to use new stuff thats not thoroughly tested!
2) this contest basically encouraged very standard designs, we were encouraged to use blizzard-ish style, especially the fact that blizz might pick up one of the maps for ladder made nearly any active and experienced mapmaker here only create very simple stuff that blizz might use! (also to a lesser extend: we had to use full bases everywhere, something we normally wouldn't do all the time)
3) to create new stuff (especially without a good way to test it like GSL mapmakers have) you have to know soooo much. It's a lot harder than making just another standard map. You have to know all the basics (something that already takes many months) and then you have to figure out what exactly changes if you change some variables (something that takes even longer and also requires you to have a lot of time to study and think about the game, watch a lot of games etc).
I want to compare it to a jigsaw puzzle. If you want to make a standard map you just go ahead and find the right pieces and put them together correctly and ta-da! it's a new balanced map. Now if you want to create something new some of the pieces are missing and some of the pieces have to be repainted, so you basically have to create all of it by yourself and then put it together and then it still has to be a nice picture = a balanced map in the end.
4) the foreign mapmaking scene for the longest time was just about Map of the Month, basically every mapmaker only made maps to compete and win in Map of the Month. And Map of the Month just doesn't have the philosophy of: Pick cool new stuff and let's see how it plays out. They rather wanted to pick solid balanced stuff (so things they were sure would work) to make the mapmaking scene more accepted by tournaments and players first, before doing something crazy (which is a very understandable way of handling things). That just adds to the fact that most of our maps are very solid and standard tho.
All the people who criticize us for not being groundbreaking and innovative and whatever should carefully consider the points I just made. Most of you have no idea about the mapmaking scene and most of the critic I read is pretty pathetic.
And yeah Twilight Peaks isn't totally crazy. It's actually my first solid map. I don't think it's boring either tho. Just take your time and look at the overview and imagine how everything will play out. I promise there is something new in this map as well, and that it is not Nerazim Crypt. Just because it doesn't change the whole metagame with innovative design and new features doesn't make it totally bland and like every other map.
Most critics are pathetic ? What's pathetic is when a contest says it's "looking for originality in maps (i.e. 16 base macro maps will have to be fairly amazing to stand out)" and they pick standard macro maps with tons of bases. The contest's aim was to find a new map to be in the ladder but I don't see any maps in this pool to be worth replacing one of Blizzard map. They just play and look the same.
On November 11 2011 04:26 chuky500 wrote: Most critics are pathetic ? What's pathetic is when a contest says it's "looking for originality in maps (i.e. 16 base macro maps will have to be fairly amazing to stand out)" and they pick standard macro maps with tons of bases. The contest's aim was to find a new map to be in the ladder but I don't see any maps in this pool to be worth replacing one of Blizzard map. They just play and look the same.
Hey, I dont like the maps so much either, butsaying they are not superlative to most ladder maps is way to far imo.
On November 11 2011 04:26 chuky500 wrote: Most critics are pathetic ? What's pathetic is when a contest says it's "looking for originality in maps (i.e. 16 base macro maps will have to be fairly amazing to stand out)" and they pick standard macro maps with tons of bases. The contest's aim was to find a new map to be in the ladder but I don't see any maps in this pool to be worth replacing one of Blizzard map. They just play and look the same.
None of the maps have 16 bases. The 15 base map is a 3p map, all other maps have 10-12. These maps utilize ridges, proper use of rocks, defensive Xel'Nagas, new expansion patterns... the list goes on. And they're all actually fun to play on.
If you're happy playing on Xel'Naga or Metalopolis, which, despite being the most balanced Blizzard Maps, still have significant imbalances, more power to you, but if you can't see how these maps are better, forgive us when we chuckle about you behind your back.
On November 10 2011 16:29 Plexa wrote: I really like all these maps obviously, but I think the maps with the most potential to become the new standard map would be sanctuary and twilight. Very little gimmicks and easy to macro on while not ruling out aggressive play.
Ye, Sanctuary has my vote aswel. The map has a very 'standard' feel when playing and even when spectating. I've played one game, which I lost to diamond protoss (me as gold terran).
Cloud Kingdom would be my vote for sure if there weren't all those Protoss Decals (though the way the hexes get smaller does look quite pretty). Shifting routes, interesting expansion locations...
I love Burning Altar, Twilight Peaks and Daggoth Crater a lot since the attack routes are going to shift quite a bit. Burning altar probably the most.
Why do we still see heavy tournament usage of Xel'naga Caverns and Metalopolis? I mean, I appreciate that everyone has so much more experience with them, but Xel'naga is just bad, and Metal ? It's good enough for play, but not for this long.
so far I like all the maps (big surprise)..favorite is Cloud Kingdom, then Ohana. The only issue I have with Cloud Kingdom is that in-game it's actually pretty tough to see. I wish something could be done about that, maybe edit the map so it's not as dark?
I worked on the lightings after seeing the chat in the Korean Weekly complain about the darkness on the map. It's brighter and less blurry, i just need to send the update to plexa now.
EPT
