• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:18
CET 01:18
KST 09:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview2RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1834
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Innova Crysta on Hire
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1190 users

[GSTL] Playoffs: MVP vs. TSL

Forum Index > News
32 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 Next All

[GSTL] Playoffs: MVP vs. TSL

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byPathy
November 22nd, 2012 23:47 GMT


Table of
Contents





Thankful for StarCraft
Intro


TSL vs. MVP
Preview


Check out the GSTL on Liquipedia


Thankful for StarCraft



'Oversaturation' has become a buzzword as of late; apparently it's the next big reason League of Legends will be killing StarCraft II in 2013. While oversaturation does pose some problems for tournament organizers, as fans, it's worth taking a step back to look at things from perspective and think "boy, do we have it good." On Thanksgiving weekend, there's plenty to be thankful for as there's an amazing wealth of StarCraft to be had. Already there's been DreamHack Winter and IEM Singapore, and now you can top it off with the GSTL semi-finals!

Team SCV Life

MVP



by Waxangel

In a nutshell, this is a match-up between team MVP, and a team that wants to be team MVP.

Both teams have the same starting point, as they have a powerful three-Zerg core, where each of the three Zergs fits into a unique hierarchical role. The leader is a popular, successful Code S player with a reputation for being an uber-ace in the GSTL, but is finding it hard to live up to that killer reputation in recent seasons ((Z)MVP.DongRaeGu, (Z)TSL_Symbol). Then there's the lieutenant, a player who has had a great reputation for being extremely skilled, but has only recently stepped into the spotlight ((Z)MVP.Sniper, (Z)TSL_HyuN). Some would argue that he's actually even better than the leader, with the leader getting by mostly on reputation. Finally, there's the third Zerg who's almost as good as Zergs one and two, but because he's the third best, he ends up going wildly under-appreciated ((Z)MVP.Monster, (Z)TSL_Shine).

That's where the similarities end and MVP's superiority begins. In terms of assembling a team around that core, team MVP seriously outmatches TSL. For starters, there's that tiny matter of the entire Protoss race. TSL haven't had a good Protoss option since JYP left for Evil Geniuses in 2011, after which their Protoss line has gone 0 - 6. While TSL still haul out (P)inori to give away a win every now and then, they might actually be better off not using Protoss altogether in their current state. In contrast, MVP has three useful Protoss players in (P)MVP.TAiLS, (P)MVP.finale, and (P)MVP.Vampire. TAiLS in particular, has carved out a niche as one of the cheesiest snipers in the GSTL, bringing all sorts of map and race specific strategies his opponents never dreamed they'd face. While none of the three are really stars or Code S regulars, they fit well into the line-up, contributing with more wins than losses.

Terran is an area where TSL should be ahead of MVP. MVP has another racial line that's three deep, with (T)Noblesse, (T)Dream, and (T)KeeN. However, the rule of GSTL is that individual strength outweighs depth, and TSL's Terran ace (T)Polt should be more valuable than MVP's combined Terran line. Unfortunately for TSL, Polt happens to be one of those individual league stars who just can't bring it in the team leagues. While he's not a total GSTL disaster like Nestea, he falls into a similar zone as MC and MVP where he's disappointing by being merely 'decent' instead of 'great.'

Much of the hype around TSL and expectations of their impending rise to greatness depended on Polt. Symbol and the Zerg line raised them to the level of playoff team, but it was up to Polt to be that second ace and take them over the top. Instead, he's been about as valuable as a single Keen, Dream, or Noblesse in the GSTL, which is not nearly enough to challenge for a championship.

While I've painted a pretty grim picture for TSL so far, there's one thing that might help even the odds in TSL's favor: (Z)TSL_HyuN. While the above comparison suggests the TSL and MVP Zerg lines are analogous and fairly equal, HyuN's rise threatens to change the script. As most people know by now, HyuN is one of the best players when playing online, capable of winning EU cups through EU lag, and winning a ridiculous FOURTEEN consecutive IPL Fight Clubs. The problem for HyuN was getting over the mental problems that prevented him from playing at that level in the booth. While it doesn't look like he's gotten over those problems entirely, it does seem like he's now playing at an at least 85% level in the booth. While Creator's mistakes had a bit to do with it, HyuN looked dominant as he won their GSL Ro8 series by a score of 3 - 1, qualifying for IPL5 in Las Vegas.

A fully powered HyuN gives TSL that second ace Polt has failed to be. Racial balance and depth are cool, but strong, streaky players are disproportionately the most important thing in an all-kill format. DRG's recent Team League slump leaves Sniper as the only such player on the MVP side. If HyuN can't step up, then the match-up boils down to Symbol + decent supporting cast vs. Sniper + awesome supporting cast. However, if HyuN can play at an ace level, the the duo of Symbol and HyuN is fully capable of taking down team MVP.

Similarly, a lot also depends on who DongRaeGu wants to be. His Team League slump has made it so he's ceded the ace spot to Sniper in practicality, if not yet in name. DRG's recent inconsistency makes it tough for anyone to pencil him in for more than a win or two, but if he can be the old DRG for just one day, no team stands a chance.


The Breakdown

As usual, the TSL team pretty much picks itself. Symbol, Polt, Shine and HyuN will play for sure. With Revival away in Singapore, Ragnarok is likely to take the #5 spot. However, there's an unspoken rule of the GSTL that line-ups choices are not allowed to make total sense, which will leave TSL fans sweating nervously as they wonder if Coach Lee will find a way to play Inori somehow.

It's hard to say who will play for MVP as they are the deepest team in the GSTL. Sniper and DongRaeGu are locks, but the other choices are pretty much up in the air. Finale is the best PvZ player so he'll could show up for that purpose, and TAiLS may be called upon to cheese again. Noblesse and Dream both prepared for TvPs in Code A this week, so Keen's likely to be the man when it comes to TvZ. As for ZvZ, Sniper and DongRaeGu are probably sufficient, but Monster could make an appearance as well.

In the end, I decided to pick conservatively. By that, I mean I decided not to believe HyuN is a GSTL ace until he actually shows it once. A merely good HyuN won't be enough to overcome the weight of depth on MVP's side. If Symbol goes absolutely crazy (it's a possibility), then he could kill three or four players to seal the deal... but I'm going with MVP's overwhelming depth to triumph.

MVP 5 - 4 TSL









Writers: Waxangel.
Graphics: Pathy.
Editor: Waxangel.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
KaRath_
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia245 Posts
November 22 2012 23:57 GMT
#2
Nice writeup :D my favourite team was already eliminated... why have I a feeling that TSL will win 5-4 XD

(And just one error - "contribomg with more wins than loss")
I wasted my nights, you turned out the lights, now I'm paralysed, still stuck in that time...
Nacht1331
Profile Joined November 2011
United States15 Posts
November 23 2012 00:00 GMT
#3
Hyun hwaiting XD I'm hoping for a miracle Hyun all-kill, simply because I want him to be the super player his is at fight club.
Alas TSL, we knew the well.
mayneeahk
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada279 Posts
November 23 2012 00:02 GMT
#4
Really enjoyed the write-up per usual. Hoping for MVP to win with great performances from Dream and DRG.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32746 Posts
November 23 2012 00:08 GMT
#5
This could be an incredibly close match-up just from the equality of quality on TSL and MVP. I think the deciding game will go between HyuN and Sniper, because if either team loses their incredibly important Zerg player who has the potential to ravage the other team, they could lose their chances at moving to the finals. Polt will likely be used to snipe Protosses, and potentially a Terran if needed, while Symbol will be the reliable ZvT sniper and ZvZ stalwart if needed. This one will go down to the wire, but I think TSL is carrying more momentum recently as a team and individuals.

TSL 5-4 MVP

(Plus I want to see TSL in a GSTL finals for once, MVP has had enough times)
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
cosine
Profile Joined September 2011
313 Posts
November 23 2012 00:17 GMT
#6
i think Polt's gonna bring his A-game to team league for once, so TSL has this for sure,
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
November 23 2012 00:25 GMT
#7
Not counting that rebuilding season where Alive, JYP, Killer, and Clide all left at the same time, leaving TSL with pretty much no one established except Polt, TSL is 11-1 all-time in GSTL up to the semifinals.

They're 0-4 in semifinals.

Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
derpface
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden925 Posts
November 23 2012 00:29 GMT
#8
Omg Polt not in bold?

Clearly not a Fionn article,
gg no re #_< no1 Hydra and Leta fan >_#
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
November 23 2012 00:30 GMT
#9
Team MVP seriously outmatches TSL


I sort of hope that HyuN goes on a rampage and gets like three or four wins.

Not sure why, but I've been pulling for TSL for a while and this would be a huge win for them.

But I agree it's more likely for MVP to take this. Alternate awesome: DRG al-kills.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
November 23 2012 00:40 GMT
#10
Yeah, a win could be huge for TSL. Hyun in semifinals, whole team doing well in GSL, lots of player qualified for various foreign tournaments. A team league win could get them that big sponsor they want to join the big boys like IM, ST, and MVP.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32746 Posts
November 23 2012 00:50 GMT
#11
On November 23 2012 09:40 Fionn wrote:
Yeah, a win could be huge for TSL. Hyun in semifinals, whole team doing well in GSL, lots of player qualified for various foreign tournaments. A team league win could get them that big sponsor they want to join the big boys like IM, ST, and MVP.


Would be nice to see TSL finally get a strong sponsor, they manage to stay in the big leagues without a famous/massive sponsor, and earning a nice sponsor would be the icing on the cake.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
November 23 2012 00:55 GMT
#12
I'm cheering for TSL! It is interesting how both teams have evolved to have three zergs make up their winning core. A year ago I never would have imagined that TSL would have been like this.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
November 23 2012 01:23 GMT
#13
This is going to be a close one. I'm going to go with MVP over TSL.
Broodlings
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States157 Posts
November 23 2012 01:32 GMT
#14
HyuN excels in the bo9 format... TSL will take this.
There is no Karont3 icon???? what is this madness?
Krossfire
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia1071 Posts
November 23 2012 01:35 GMT
#15
my two favourite teams!! such a tough pick

dont mind who wins as long as they win the whole GSTL....hoping for a close series tho
For the Swarm * DRG *
MatiaasS !
Profile Joined October 2011
Chile167 Posts
November 23 2012 01:36 GMT
#16
It's weard that MVP doesn't centre his power on just DRG anymore.
Team EG, TL and IM ! || Tennis For Life ♥ RF ♥
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
November 23 2012 01:52 GMT
#17
Both of these teams are awesome but I want TSL to win this time, they need a team league championship and they deserve one.
Moderatorlickypiddy
GoSuChicken
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany1726 Posts
November 23 2012 02:00 GMT
#18
rooting for TSL!
izmatic
Profile Joined November 2012
United States104 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-23 02:12:19
November 23 2012 02:10 GMT
#19
which will leave TSL fans sweating nervously as they wonder if Coach Lee will find a way to play Inori somehow
.


i also have this sneaking suspision they will start with center after his code a win.... this is gonna be so close i hope they dont leave an ace in the hole
two wrongs dont make a right, and three rights make a left
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
November 23 2012 02:50 GMT
#20
--- Nuked ---
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 223
Ketroc 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13733
Shuttle 118
Counter-Strike
Foxcn275
Other Games
tarik_tv12862
gofns6824
summit1g5976
FrodaN3647
Grubby2734
shahzam377
B2W.Neo244
C9.Mang0243
Pyrionflax180
KnowMe162
XaKoH 145
ZombieGrub48
PPMD26
minikerr13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2533
BasetradeTV78
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 62
• Hupsaiya 57
• RyuSc2 35
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21405
League of Legends
• Doublelift4830
Other Games
• imaqtpie2214
Upcoming Events
All-Star Invitational
1h 58m
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
11h 43m
AI Arena Tournament
19h 43m
All-Star Invitational
1d 1h
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
OSC
1d 11h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.