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[TSL] Ro16 Roundup
February 8th, 2010 00:48 GMT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Kennigit/PSTSL/PS_TSL_Banner.png)
On January 30th the PokerStrategy.com TSL kicked off with the round of 16. We had some really great matches, and this post rounds up all the results, interviews, and VODs for the round.
At stake this week was primarily the opportunity to move on to the round of 8. The losers this round received $250, and the winners are guaranteed a minimum of $500.
Don't miss next week's great games! The schedule for broadcasting will be posted at a later date.
The following games were played:
VODs All PokerStrategy.com TSL VODs can be found here as both torrents and spoiler-free YouTube embeds.
Results & Next Week's Matches + Show Spoiler +
Interviews
You can find all interviews from TSL linked here
This TSL is sponsored by PokerStrategy.com, the world's largest poker school and community. With hundreds of Poker VODs and an assortment of learning material in 18 different languages, PokerStrategy.com offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to a professional level.
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+ Show Spoiler +IdrA vs NonY rematch Bo5!! Looking forward to it.
Sorry about sticking that in spoiler tag, but you posted asap before I posted my warning -Insane
edit: apologies~
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United States4991 Posts
<font size=5>Doubtless there will be spoilers in the comments, so watch out!!!</font>
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Can't waiit for Ret vs Sen, ZvZ goodness
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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Some truly amazing games today 
Ret vs Sen ~~
Don't know who to root for D:
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idra X nony
ret X sen...
insane matches...
even fenix and mondy will be good and sorry RA and JF but i hate pvp
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This was fast. Some crazy matchups coming up. Seriusly hard to find someone to root for :S The only match I have a clear favorite is Mondy (gotta love Mondi man) but ret is awsome but Sen is a beast. No way you can be an IdrA or NonY fanboy and RA and JF is just too epic.
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Ret and Idra are in the same half?
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Epic games  Now is just to hard to predict results.
Is just sad that White Ra or JF gonna get behind 
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On February 08 2010 10:22 Highways wrote: Ret and Idra are in the same half? no
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great games OTW :D
nony vs idra rematch!
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my health after ro16 is totally bad, so much emotions....so much beers....even dont know should i watch ro8..... Ra NoNy Fenix Sen that's my predict )
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Ok, time for some predictions:
 CJ_IdrA[Media] vs.  Liquid`NonY + Show Spoiler + CJ_IdrA[Media]Nony played very impressively in his recent series against IdrA. So in spite of his recent loss, he certainly has a chance of taking IdrA down and I will be rooting for him. But considering his only recent return to StarCraft and the fact that IdrA probably practiced TvP a lot in preparation for the MSL Preliminaries, I just do not see Nony being able to take an entire series from IdrA. However, their latest series did make IdrA look a lot less invincible then usually and I will gladly bite my tongue if Nony manages to take the series.
 DuskBin.Sen vs.  LLL.ret + Show Spoiler + LLL.retThis is actually going to be a really close series. Sen is a really good Zerg player, so ret should not get complacent about his ZvZ practice. Plus, his series with  CaStrO showed that he still makes tiny mistakes that can cost you the game in such an intricate matchup such as ZvZ. So I would not be suprised if this went up to game 5. That said, ret has an enormous momentum going, having won 4 ZvZ`s in his last Courage tournament and also playing nothing but ZvZ so far in the TSL and winning. Plus, in spite of losing one game, his series against Castro was a much less close affair compared to his series against Flaf and he was clearly the more solid player throughout it. If he can keep that up, I think Sen will bite the dust in the end.
 mouz.Fenix vs.  ToT)Mondragon( + Show Spoiler + ToT)Mondragon(Fenix played really well against  Kolll, dismantling his 2-hatch Muta play and forcing Kolll out of his comfort zone. Overall, his superior experience showed and it earned him a well deserved victory. However, Mondragon is an entirely different story. His defence is absolutely tenacious and he perfers more long-term play in spite of his somewhat lacking macromanagement. If  BRAT_OK could not beat him with fairly solid mechanics, then I do not see Fenix fairing much better.
 mouz.IefNaij vs.  mouz.White-Ra + Show Spoiler + mouz.White-RaAgain, this is going to be a fairly close series and I would not be suprised if it also went up to Game 5. Plus, JF`s Reaver control is preety good and he has played really good PvP in the past (notably against  Draco in the Razer TSL finals). But like Nony, he faces the serious disadvantage of recently returning to StarCraft, while his opponent has been performing rather well. Plus, with his latest game being a PvP, he also has the momentum going for him. As his series against Kabal showed, White-Ra is far from untouchable and JF has a good shot at winning. So predicting this is really difficult. But I think White-Ra`s better form will ultimately tip the scale.
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WHITE RA 3-1 IDRA 3-0 RET 3-2 MONDRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3-0
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How come ret keeps getting ZvZs? I find that incredibly amusing.
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Lefnaij 3-2 Idra 3-0 Sen 3-1 Mondragon 3-0 don't make a liar out of me sen-.- do make a liar out of me nony!
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damn that was fast, thanks guys.
I think JF vs Terran and White_ra vs Kabal were the only ones I missed live. Time to check out the VODs
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On February 08 2010 10:11 Arhkangel wrote: This was fast. Some crazy matchups coming up. Seriusly hard to find someone to root for :S No it's not, just root for NonY.
I think the Ro8 is going to have a lot of closer series than the Ro16.
White-Ra 3-2 NonY 3-2 Mondragon 3-1 Ret 3-2
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Absolutely can't wait for Idra versus Nony. Match of the tournament right there. I'm really rooting for Nony to take it, but either way, it's gonna be awesome. Go Nony!
Other than that, Gosi[terran] has showed a lot of promise, so I hope he moves on as well. And I'll definitely be rooting for ret to take down his opponent. Ditto for Mondragon.
No predictions, though. It'll all be decided soon...
MAY THE BEST NERD WIN!
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Tasteless is usually a great (IMO, the absolute best English commentator) commentator, but I've gotta say... this is some of the worst spectating/commentating I've seen. This entire TSL, you can see the minimap and regularly watch things like dropships failing, things being scouted, and other major events. The spectator misses it, and the commentators miss it. It makes the games look worse than they actually are. Hope I can get the replays so I can actually watch these games properly instead of just watching the minimap all game.
I don't know who is recording as spectator (I guess Carnac?), but it is not something you can half ass in a tournament this big. It really makes me appreciate how great the Korean spectators are. They so rarely miss anything major. They remember to watch the minimap, as it seems our TSL spectator isn't doing. Sorry if this is insulting, but come on. Is it too much to ask to have the screen move to where the giant blue minimap blob is going? To see the shuttle drop zealot bombs?
If nothing else, let us see what the commentators are seeing, so we don't have to listen to them talk about crap we can't even see. Game 3 of White-Ra vs TT1 is a brilliant example of this. The entire game is really poorly done. The spectator sees a shuttle with reavers die, the commentators miss it. The commentators are screaming at other moments, as the spectator sits the screen on nothing, and then whips around as though trying to find what's going on.
Half the time, the commentators are so busy going on in a monologue about some irrelevant nonsense. They seem too focused on talking to COMMENTATE THE GAME.
This reflects badly on the entire tournament. It would be nice to have the second half of this TSL be presented to the fans how it is meant to be presented. This tournament is great, but it's being tarnished with poor delivery.
I'm sorry if this is ignorant bullshit. I am merely a fan. This is what I've observed. I love watching starcraft. I've been deeply into the scene (as a fan) for years. If the commentators and spectator are doing all of this for free, then I can't blame anyone, and it's just too bad. But if they are being compensated somehow, I feel sorry for PokerStrategy.com for the return. Artosis is great at post-game analysis and his knowledge of the game is very good, but I think he rambles on too much during the games rather than delivering the game play to the viewer. (which Tasteless has always been great at) Tasteless will immediately stop what he's saying when the action starts. Artosis seems to have trouble doing this. It really seems like Nick is trying to just be polite and wait for Artosis to finish his monologues half the time.
Hopefully I won't get banned for speaking up. Wouldn't surprise me though. I'm just an ungrateful netizen douchebag anyway, I suppose.
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idra vs nony will be an epic series. and poor ret keeps getting zvzs
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Definitely looking forward to some high level terran play. Mirror's are... meh.
And man, ret, bro keep getting the zvz's. But the road to greatness is never easy.
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kinda funny how the opposing sides of the brackets are 3 Protoss and a terran vs 3 zerg and a terran.
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I would rather see some PvZ than ZvZ and PvP. Can't wait for IdrA vs Nony match, i really hope Nony will do his best to take down IdrA and even that might not be enough. JF vs White Ra makes me sad, don't want one of them to go. Mondi really surprised me against Bratok with his control. When i saw Fenix vs Kolll: I was like damn Fenix you need to be agressive to beat zerg like kolll, force sunkens and deny third. (he did that and won). It is the same for Fenix vs Mondi. If Fenix plays agressive, he can take the series, but it will be even harder than against Kolll cause Mondi has so much experience compared to Kolll.
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i love upsets =D Nony FTW
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I have a question.
Has no other progamer ever used that strategy of taking the bottom left expansion on destination? Seems pretty crazy if mondi has come up with something like that, but no other progamer has done?
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On February 08 2010 20:46 MadNeSs wrote: I have a question.
Has no other progamer ever used that strategy of taking the bottom left expansion on destination? Seems pretty crazy if mondi has come up with something like that, but no other progamer has done? jaedong vs firebathero
BTW, Chill and Day[9] are a LOT better duo than Tasteless + Artosis, at least here. Artosis is great but tasteless is quite bleh imo. Artosis + Chill might be nice, letting the brothers commentate together, but I think tasteless would somehow ruin Day[9]'s commentary, too.
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has the schedule been decided yet? sorry if it has been mentioned somewhere
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On February 08 2010 21:08 PredY wrote: has the schedule been decided yet?
This. I hope the shedule will be PvP + TvZ one day and PvT + ZvZ the other day so we can see all three races each day.
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So hyped for Ret v Sen. Lets see how badass Ret's ZvZ has truly become! As for Nony v Idra, Nony will pown idra! Do it for Auir! White-Ra vs JF is also another amazing match. A pvp between the two of the three best foreign protosses!
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@SUSUGAM
I agree with you on most of the things you said. However, it seems to me that Tasteless, who is usually quite good, has been much worse than normal throughout this TSL and particularly bad in this past weekend's matches.
It sounded to like Tasteless was uninterested, tired, and half hungover or drunk to me. He was screwing up a lot of the things he was saying and it felt like Artosis had to cover for him and wait for him to stop babbling before he could step in and try to save the commentary. I could count so many times that something big was going on and Tasteless was just rambling about something for several minutes and by the time it was Artosis' turn to speak the action was so far past that half of those times he didn't bother to point it out to save face for Tasteless. The other times he would quickly mention it and move on.
Of course I do understand that it was 4am-7am over there while they were commentating and that is partly valid excuse for sure. But I think if Tasteless is going to take this seriously he needs to plan his Saturday around this commentary and make sure he gets enough sleep during the day to make sure he can function properly and feign enthusiasm during the games even if he isn't interested and be more alert so he can catch more stuff on the mini map as it is happening.
In any case, I still don't think the commentary and observing was terrible or anything because I still totally enjoyed most of the matches. Hopefully this will be taken as constructive criticism if anyone reads it because I totally appreciate all the work you guys put into this for so little return!!
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JF, Nony, Fenix and Sen for Ro4~!!!
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I know it says the schedule will be released soon, but will all 4 games be played this weekend?
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On February 08 2010 22:33 Chillz wrote: @SUSUGAM
I agree with you on most of the things you said. However, it seems to me that Tasteless, who is usually quite good, has been much worse than normal throughout this TSL and particularly bad in this past weekend's matches.
Yes, agreed. I didn't mean to single out Artosis as much as I did, but the overall commentary was just bad on that specific day, more than anything else. All the other days, even of these two guys were very good, considering their return. Maybe it's purely the time of day, who knows. I definitely have found Chill and Day's commentary better so far, when I expected the opposite to be true.
Both Artosis and Tasteless were both doing poorly, rambling on repeatedly and missing the action. For me personally, too much to enjoy the game. However, I can mute the commentary, but I can't take control of the spectator to see what is happening... which is a much bigger problem for the viewers.
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On February 08 2010 14:11 SUSUGAM wrote: I'm sorry if this is ignorant bullshit. I am merely a fan. This is what I've observed. I love watching starcraft. I've been deeply into the scene (as a fan) for years. If the commentators and spectator are doing all of this for free, then I can't blame anyone, and it's just too bad. But if they are being compensated somehow, I feel sorry for PokerStrategy.com for the return. Artosis is great at post-game analysis and his knowledge of the game is very good, but I think he rambles on too much during the games rather than delivering the game play to the viewer. (which Tasteless has always been great at) Tasteless will immediately stop what he's saying when the action starts. Artosis seems to have trouble doing this. It really seems like Nick is trying to just be polite and wait for Artosis to finish his monologues half the time.
Hopefully I won't get banned for speaking up. Wouldn't surprise me though. I'm just an ungrateful netizen douchebag anyway, I suppose. No need to feel sorry for PokerStrategy.com what TSL delivers goes far beyond expectation of what they thought we would deliver or be capable of. They have a far more realistic understanding of what we should be delivering compared to the one you seem to be portraying. Which is one that compares us to organizations with studios, 10 years of experience and budgets that go far into the millions.
That said your complaints are totally legit. Not the weight you put on them but they are accurate. It feels to me you are largely focused on last Saturdays cast which had the unfortunate event of intrigue our scheduled observer losing power in his building which cause us to at the last minute rely on Carnac who was the stand-in for Saturday, scheduled to cast Sunday himself. Our observer is an extension of the directors due to the 15s delay in the stream that we have to work with due to not having a studio. Needless to say an observer jumping in unprepared for the games will hurt the quality. He will not have seen the games before and has to stress around talking to the directors about what needs to be done next. It is something we very much would like to avoid as well. Would you mind watching Sundays cast and tell us if you feel it was better than the one you're describing.
At all times we are trying to improve. We see the same things as all of you and trust me we work our asses off to fix anything we're unsatisfied with. From here on I think you will be pleasantly surprised, as you might already be once you watch yesterdays cast. Here's a screenshot from how our observer works. It includes his SC screen, ventrilo, IRC, the art and the streaming. As you can see we need to be very prepared for a cast to make it work.
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/30jgyee.png)
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On February 09 2010 02:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 08 2010 14:11 SUSUGAM wrote: I'm sorry if this is ignorant bullshit. I am merely a fan. This is what I've observed. I love watching starcraft. I've been deeply into the scene (as a fan) for years. If the commentators and spectator are doing all of this for free, then I can't blame anyone, and it's just too bad. But if they are being compensated somehow, I feel sorry for PokerStrategy.com for the return. Artosis is great at post-game analysis and his knowledge of the game is very good, but I think he rambles on too much during the games rather than delivering the game play to the viewer. (which Tasteless has always been great at) Tasteless will immediately stop what he's saying when the action starts. Artosis seems to have trouble doing this. It really seems like Nick is trying to just be polite and wait for Artosis to finish his monologues half the time.
Hopefully I won't get banned for speaking up. Wouldn't surprise me though. I'm just an ungrateful netizen douchebag anyway, I suppose. No need to feel sorry for PokerStrategy.com what TSL delivers goes far beyond expectation of what they thought we would deliver or be capable of. They have a far more realistic understanding of what we should be delivering compared to the one you seem to be portraying. Which is one that compares us to organizations with studios, 10 years of experience and budgets that go far into the millions. That said your complaints are totally legit. Not the weight you put on them but they are accurate. It feels to me you are largely focused on last Saturdays cast which had the unfortunate event of intrigue our scheduled observer losing power in his building which cause us to at the last minute rely on Carnac who was the stand-in for Saturday, scheduled to cast Sunday himself. Our observer is an extension of the directors due to the 15s delay in the stream that we have to work with due to not having a studio. Needless to say an observer jumping in unprepared for the games will hurt the quality. He will not have seen the games before and has to stress around talking to the directors about what needs to be done next. It is something we very much would like to avoid as well. Would you mind watching Sundays cast and tell us if you feel it was better than the one you're describing. At all times we are trying to improve. We see the same things as all of you and trust me we work our asses off to fix anything we're unsatisfied with. From here on I think you will be pleasantly surprised, as you might already be once you watch yesterdays cast. Here's a screenshot from how our observer works. It includes his SC screen, ventrilo, IRC, the art and the streaming. As you can see we need to be very prepared for a cast to make it work.
Honestly, your reply alone is extremely reassuring. I only just finished watching Ret vs Castro, and not only were the games utterly amazing (and I hate ZvZ) but the delivery was spot on.
My complaints before were more about that specific day than anything. I know Korean SC has the experience and money to be beyond professional (except MBC of course) and I assure you that I wasn't demanding that level of display. TSL1 was great, and this TSL has been better, absolutely. In every way. It would be hard to argue otherwise. At least there was a reasonable explanation for the one day of serious problems. It's good to see how much you, and many others, actually CARE about putting out the best possible display of the game. That's all the fans want. It's no different for any other sport. Starcraft doesn't have a ball for the camera to follow around, so there is a massive responsibility in the observer's hands. It's easy to take them for granted.
Missing a key play now and then is understandable, but Saturday was just baffling prior to your explanation. I didn't mean to come off as bratty as I did, but it was mostly just an impulsive response after I got done watching the games.
Hopefully everything continues as it was meant to be, and we get to enjoy more quality foreign Starcraft. Keep up the brilliant work, it is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again for the reply, Nazgul.
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Nice!!! This means that there is no longer a possibility of a mirror finals.
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Can anyone give info when replays gonna be released? i hate watching vods. Actually i wanna follow up build orders easily ...
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On February 09 2010 03:27 Regna wrote: Can anyone give info when replays gonna be released? i hate watching vods. Actually i wanna follow up build orders easily ... We do not release replays of the Round of 16. You can find a lot of replays of ladder games in the TSL forum.
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Reason ?? -.- many ppls are looking forward for replays .. and u not gonna release the reps ??? its not funny
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On February 09 2010 03:35 Regna wrote: Reason ?? -.- many ppls are looking forward for replays .. and u not gonna release the reps ??? its not funny feel free to sponsor the next tsl and you will get replays i guess.
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Sen will completely and utterly rape ret. And don't you dare call it an upset. Mondi will win, too. Not a walk in the park, but kind of convincingly I guess. Ra vs JF is totally 50/50, I'll go with ra. Idra, even though I hate Nony less. But this is the one matchup where I feel an upset is possible.
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sen has a very good chance at going to finals oo.
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8748 Posts
On February 09 2010 04:26 kernl wrote: Sen will completely and utterly rape ret. And don't you dare call it an upset. Mondi will win, too. Not a walk in the park, but kind of convincingly I guess. Ra vs JF is totally 50/50, I'll go with ra. Idra, even though I hate Nony less. But this is the one matchup where I feel an upset is possible. Finally someone with the sense to see that IdrA winning would be the upset, not the other way around. Though if I'm feeling particularly humble, I might say an upset isn't possible because we are evenly matched.
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On February 09 2010 05:56 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 04:26 kernl wrote: Sen will completely and utterly rape ret. And don't you dare call it an upset. Mondi will win, too. Not a walk in the park, but kind of convincingly I guess. Ra vs JF is totally 50/50, I'll go with ra. Idra, even though I hate Nony less. But this is the one matchup where I feel an upset is possible. Finally someone with the sense to see that IdrA winning would be the upset, not the other way around. Though if I'm feeling particularly humble, I might say an upset isn't possible because we are evenly matched. O yea babe
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On February 09 2010 03:35 Regna wrote: Reason ?? -.- many ppls are looking forward for replays .. and u not gonna release the reps ??? its not funny The reason is that sponsorship relies on people seeing the logo. While watching the game and hearing sponsor plugs during the cast. We are also trying to develop TSL as a product. Releasing Ro16+ replays detracts from both of these goals.
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White-Ra 3-1 NonY 2-3 Mondragon 1-3 Ret 2-3
I want Nony, Ret and Mondragon to win though, along with White-Ra ofc!
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On February 09 2010 05:56 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2010 04:26 kernl wrote: Sen will completely and utterly rape ret. And don't you dare call it an upset. Mondi will win, too. Not a walk in the park, but kind of convincingly I guess. Ra vs JF is totally 50/50, I'll go with ra. Idra, even though I hate Nony less. But this is the one matchup where I feel an upset is possible. Finally someone with the sense to see that IdrA winning would be the upset, not the other way around. Though if I'm feeling particularly humble, I might say an upset isn't possible because we are evenly matched.
No, I think Idra losing would be the upset.
But that's no reason not to feel flattered by my post.
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wow, awesome matchups, even a idra-nony rematch
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On February 09 2010 03:35 Regna wrote: Reason ?? -.- many ppls are looking forward for replays .. and u not gonna release the reps ??? its not funny youre missing the point. TSL is supposed to be an experience. watching top foreigners duke it out. listening to the casts with hundreds of others around the world. to reduce that experience to simply downloading a small replay file would be an insult to TSL
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Looks like Ret won't get a break from ZvZ till the finals..
GO NONY!
edit: Nony if you start winning more in face to face match with Idra, he'll be considered the underdog!
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nony 3-2 sen 3-2 JF 3-1 mondragon 3-0
:DDD
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Fenix goes from playing a young, inexperienced zerg (though a very talented one) to a zerg who has been around forever and perhaps has more experience than anybody in this tourny... curious to see if that changes his play style at all
Im the most excited for NonY vs IdrA who, by the way, both have the first and last letters in their names capitalized... and thats your random nugget of the day
Ret vs Sen should be good as well... can Ret keep improving on his ZvZ? Seems like the difference between Ret vs flaf and the post-courage ZvZ play has been noticeable
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Can't wait for these matches! Especially the Idra - Noony match!
Rets zvz curse is still going strong it seems. I thought it would go away when he went home from korea...
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White-Ra 3-2 IdrA 3-1 Mondragon 3-1 Sen 3-1
Finals hopefully Mondragon vs IdrA
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Ahh JF vs Ra is killing me :X , I want both of them to win!
Anyway, NONY you better kick Idra's ass! I expect 3-0, no less!!!
In fenix vs mondi I'm rooting for Mondi but I think it will be a very close series, hopefully 3-2 for Mondi :D
Sen vs Ret is hard to say, but Sen really impressed me in the Draco games so despite being a usual Ret fan I'm going with Sen on this one!
GOGO TSL!
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On February 08 2010 10:11 Arhkangel wrote: This was fast. Some crazy matchups coming up. Seriusly hard to find someone to root for :S The only match I have a clear favorite is Mondy (gotta love Mondi man) but ret is awsome but Sen is a beast. No way you can be an IdrA or NonY fanboy and RA and JF is just too epic.
Lies. Everyone of us BM Americans are Idra fanboys.
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Easy one to call.
Idra 3-1 White-Ra 3-2 Fenix 3-1 Ret 3-0
Fenix is going to go on to win the whole series though in a 3-0 rape over Idra. I called it, now if it happens i'll be semi-famous as that one lunatic who thought it could.
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