• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:14
CEST 18:14
KST 01:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)47Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Fantasy returning? BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8494 users

A Classy Game of Mafia - Page 78

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 76 77 78 79 80 88 Next
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:38 GMT
#10076
On March 18 2024 10:28 die_meatbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:25 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:11 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:07 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:02 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 09:55 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 09:49 iamperfection wrote:
On March 18 2024 09:47 Vivax wrote:
I don‘t know if I can survive more of this game without getting put into a straitjacket.

Maybe I should do what others do and mislynch someone. Stop being so ambitious about the game.

Let Jello live? I‘d have proven my point anyway

so what do you want to do. Lynch Palmar. He did say something super scummy earlier he called me a good player i genuinely don't think he believes that lol.


I'll keep my vote here but I'll stop fighting and be mad if you change your mind.
It was a good battle, I'm spent. I think I prefer harmony now.


did you read his old towngame where I posted a link?
did you compare that?
can you untunnel J for like 10 minutes and finally do something for this town and not working like our rl mayjor???
Compare this this one old game with this now.
Tell me I am wrong! Tell me pls why I am wrong? This is basiclly the same how he plays here


The only way for me to untunnel the way you‘d like me to is by tunneling DP instead and I‘m not going to start doing that one hour before DL.

Grack already told us he‘s scum either way


great that means you did not read this old game with a 7 page filter and and the game had only about 90 pages. But okey don´t look up his meta. Sorry I forgot a major can not get his ass to take 10 minutes to read this one game of him.

I hope you are right with J. We can not misslynch another town 3 times in raw.


I DIDNT PLAY IN THE GAME YOU LINKED


do you get nervous now while i am voting on you? nobody is voting with me. So sadly you are still alive until the next lynch. read the thread!


No I am not nervous, I think you are being an idiot or outing yourself as mafia.

Now tell me which town vs town wagons I pushed.

because: Jealous hasn't flipped, Jat hasn't flipped, Palmar hasn;t flipped, and I was on cake not VE.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:38 GMT
#10078
On March 18 2024 10:30 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:28 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:25 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:11 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:07 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:02 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 09:55 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 09:49 iamperfection wrote:
On March 18 2024 09:47 Vivax wrote:
I don‘t know if I can survive more of this game without getting put into a straitjacket.

Maybe I should do what others do and mislynch someone. Stop being so ambitious about the game.

Let Jello live? I‘d have proven my point anyway

so what do you want to do. Lynch Palmar. He did say something super scummy earlier he called me a good player i genuinely don't think he believes that lol.


I'll keep my vote here but I'll stop fighting and be mad if you change your mind.
It was a good battle, I'm spent. I think I prefer harmony now.


did you read his old towngame where I posted a link?
did you compare that?
can you untunnel J for like 10 minutes and finally do something for this town and not working like our rl mayjor???
Compare this this one old game with this now.
Tell me I am wrong! Tell me pls why I am wrong? This is basiclly the same how he plays here


The only way for me to untunnel the way you‘d like me to is by tunneling DP instead and I‘m not going to start doing that one hour before DL.

Grack already told us he‘s scum either way


great that means you did not read this old game with a 7 page filter and and the game had only about 90 pages. But okey don´t look up his meta. Sorry I forgot a major can not get his ass to take 10 minutes to read this one game of him.

I hope you are right with J. We can not misslynch another town 3 times in raw.


I DIDNT PLAY IN THE GAME YOU LINKED


do you get nervous now while i am voting on you? nobody is voting with me. So sadly you are still alive until the next lynch. read the thread!

🤦‍♂️

Already regretting this.


You should TBH.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:39 GMT
#10079
On March 18 2024 10:30 Vivax wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: DP


You are voting with your scum read that is lock mafia according to you you realise?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:39 GMT
#10080
On March 18 2024 10:32 iamperfection wrote:
i dont think i can do this vivax. im weak


Wtf why would you do it?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:40 GMT
#10081
On March 18 2024 10:35 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:32 iamperfection wrote:
i dont think i can do this vivax. im weak


That‘s okay.
It just feels right.


Is jealous still mafia to you?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:40 GMT
#10082
Unvote:

Vote: Jealous

"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:41 GMT
#10088
On March 18 2024 10:40 die_meatbaby wrote:
he pushed trfel because Trfel is a good Townplayer as I saw in the last game
he pushed VE wagon because we looked scummy but he always does
he pushed CC wagon because she plays differnt and can not handle the dp discussions for dayss

he go a gun he shoot the non activ mafia, because he is useless anyways, so why not getting townreads for shooting his teammate. Thats insanse but insane enough for a scum DP


When did I push the VE wagon?

go find the posts. I was on cake that day.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:41 GMT
#10089
On March 18 2024 10:41 die_meatbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:40 DarthPunk wrote:
Unvote:

Vote: Jealous


why?


Because I would rather not die than someone in my poe die?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:42 GMT
#10091
I would prefer to lynch Palmar but you are all acting crazy, so here we are.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:43 GMT
#10092
On March 18 2024 10:42 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:39 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:30 Vivax wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: DP


You are voting with your scum read that is lock mafia according to you you realise?


Yeah because I feel awful after hammering on him all day.

You on the other hand gave me reason to feel less awful if I lynched you


Wait so you are doing this because I yelled at you?

You realise as mafia my strat is to pocket the townies right.

Whatever you want tho vivax.

Honestly.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:44 GMT
#10093
All you lot are doing by trying to lynch me here is throwing the game because now out of the three of us mafia can pick the townie last minute.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:45 GMT
#10098
On March 18 2024 10:44 die_meatbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:41 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:40 die_meatbaby wrote:
he pushed trfel because Trfel is a good Townplayer as I saw in the last game
he pushed VE wagon because we looked scummy but he always does
he pushed CC wagon because she plays differnt and can not handle the dp discussions for dayss

he go a gun he shoot the non activ mafia, because he is useless anyways, so why not getting townreads for shooting his teammate. Thats insanse but insane enough for a scum DP


When did I push the VE wagon?

go find the posts. I was on cake that day.


Show nested quote +
On March 11 2024 09:26 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Three Vote Count

VisceraEyes (7): Rels, Justanothertownie, Koshi, Palmar, Vivax, iamperfection, Meapak_Ziphh, DarthPunk
CopCake (5): Jealous, DarthPunk, iamperfection, Vivax, die_meatbaby, VisceraEyes, CopCake, JacobStrangelove

Not Voting (1): Vivax

With 7 votes, VisceraEyes is currently set to be lynched!

The deadline is Tuesday, Mar 12 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in



you changing your vote on both wagons always.... you were on cc back on ve back on cc


Yeah I voted VE for a bit, but I didn't push that wagon, which is different and what you accuse me of.

"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:46 GMT
#10099
[QUOTE]On March 18 2024 10:44 iamperfection wrote:
im voting palmar[/QUOTE]

Thank god for reason.

Unvote:

Vote Palmar
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:46 GMT
#10103
On March 18 2024 10:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:44 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:42 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:39 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:30 Vivax wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: DP


You are voting with your scum read that is lock mafia according to you you realise?


Yeah because I feel awful after hammering on him all day.

You on the other hand gave me reason to feel less awful if I lynched you


Wait so you are doing this because I yelled at you?

You realise as mafia my strat is to pocket the townies right.

Whatever you want tho vivax.

Honestly.


No I took it personally that you manipulated me specifically into voting copcake.
And you didn‘t give a fuck about it afterwards.

So now you're trying to lynch him rather than your scumread who you now "feel bad for"?


Its fucking ridiculous tbh.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:47 GMT
#10104
DMB/Jealous/palmar calling it now.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:47 GMT
#10105
Jealous town reads me all game and then makes that vote?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:49 GMT
#10113
On March 18 2024 10:48 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:44 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:42 Vivax wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:39 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:30 Vivax wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: DP


You are voting with your scum read that is lock mafia according to you you realise?


Yeah because I feel awful after hammering on him all day.

You on the other hand gave me reason to feel less awful if I lynched you


Wait so you are doing this because I yelled at you?

You realise as mafia my strat is to pocket the townies right.

Whatever you want tho vivax.

Honestly.


No I took it personally that you manipulated me specifically into voting copcake.
And you didn‘t give a fuck about it afterwards.

So now you're trying to lynch him rather than your scumread who you now "feel bad for"?


Believe it or not.
I‘ll have to switch back to him for my win condition if I have to but I‘d still prefer DP


You essentially managed to unlynch him over palmar your 'town read', so you are doing great so far.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:51 GMT
#10119
On March 18 2024 10:50 die_meatbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:46 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:41 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
And people why we haven't lynched scum this game.

This is exactly how scum like Palmar get away.

why do you townread dp so strong?
why would he shoot TTS?
Why would mafia not roleblock him if they know that he as a gun as he claimed it.
Why is this gun making him so fucking town and why is he not getting nk when he this much townconfirmed
how does that make sense?

I scumread Palmar and Jealous and now you tbh.

No room in my PoE for DP even if I had questions about the RB which I don't bc we already beat that horse to death on D3.

You are actively trying to prevent either a person who is openly taunting the town as scum or a person who has aggressively slipped several times. I have no idea what vivax is doing but he's still town to me unfortunately, you on the other hand are actively trying to prevent two of my scumreads from getting lynched.


why the fuck do they not night kill. When somebody is this fucking townconfirmed they get nk.
Why he pushing us all the time to a town wagon for lynch?????
How can you not see that
DP/Rels


Stop saying that, its not true, I have a better fucking record than the person I am voting for, so why do you not scum read palmar for never voting for scum this game.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:52 GMT
#10121
On March 18 2024 10:50 iamperfection wrote:
whatever everyone can blame me if im wrong about palmar i guess.
Game isnt good for me hapa is right.


Yeah I am taking a break after this game.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10859 Posts
March 18 2024 01:55 GMT
#10128
On March 18 2024 10:53 die_meatbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2024 10:51 DarthPunk wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:50 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:46 die_meatbaby wrote:
On March 18 2024 10:41 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
And people why we haven't lynched scum this game.

This is exactly how scum like Palmar get away.

why do you townread dp so strong?
why would he shoot TTS?
Why would mafia not roleblock him if they know that he as a gun as he claimed it.
Why is this gun making him so fucking town and why is he not getting nk when he this much townconfirmed
how does that make sense?

I scumread Palmar and Jealous and now you tbh.

No room in my PoE for DP even if I had questions about the RB which I don't bc we already beat that horse to death on D3.

You are actively trying to prevent either a person who is openly taunting the town as scum or a person who has aggressively slipped several times. I have no idea what vivax is doing but he's still town to me unfortunately, you on the other hand are actively trying to prevent two of my scumreads from getting lynched.


why the fuck do they not night kill. When somebody is this fucking townconfirmed they get nk.
Why he pushing us all the time to a town wagon for lynch?????
How can you not see that

DP/Rels


Stop saying that, its not true, I have a better fucking record than the person I am voting for, so why do you not scum read palmar for never voting for scum this game.


because palmar is just a fucking dick of town!
and I refuse to vote on any of your wagons


You're mafia then I guess.

Half the wagons I have pushed haven't even flipped.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
Prev 1 76 77 78 79 80 88 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Stellar Fest
13:00
Stellar Fest 2 The Moon: Qualifier Day 2
Serral vs herO
Solar vs Shino
Maru vs Clem
SHIN vs GgMaChine
IntoTheiNu 1230
ComeBackTV 581
SteadfastSC460
TaKeTV 452
LamboSC2380
IndyStarCraft 158
Rex127
EnkiAlexander 62
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #263
EmpressLilyy24
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 453
LamboSC2 398
mouzHeroMarine 222
IndyStarCraft 167
ProTech152
Rex 132
BRAT_OK 75
UpATreeSC 62
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32654
Shuttle 1884
EffOrt 927
Mini 619
Light 557
Soma 445
Rush 339
firebathero 318
Snow 206
ZerO 173
[ Show more ]
hero 163
sorry 58
Killer 46
Liquid`Ret 39
Shinee 32
Mong 32
ToSsGirL 30
Sexy 22
soO 20
Bale 19
Shine 18
Trap 18
Free 12
Terrorterran 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Sacsri 8
Noble 4
Dota 2
Gorgc8542
qojqva1339
Dendi972
420jenkins159
Counter-Strike
fl0m1268
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor2006
crisheroes1284
XaKoH 192
MindelVK8
Other Games
singsing1876
B2W.Neo1008
Hui .193
Liquid`VortiX164
ArmadaUGS145
Beastyqt131
KnowMe121
QueenE107
Mew2King76
ToD54
Trikslyr50
Dewaltoss35
ZerO(Twitch)17
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream90
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 5
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Gemini_19 24
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• FirePhoenix12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3225
• TFBlade987
Other Games
• Shiphtur246
• WagamamaTV204
Upcoming Events
OSC
7h 47m
Stellar Fest
20h 47m
OSC
1d 5h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 17h
Online Event
1d 18h
FEL
1d 23h
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
4 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
INu's Battles
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.