EPTNeed to attend to work here, but next break I get (or worst case, when I get off work) going to prioritise Tictock.
Season of the Witch 2 - Page 8
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Need to attend to work here, but next break I get (or worst case, when I get off work) going to prioritise Tictock. | ||
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Yeah....that was the main reason for my Jeopardy post. I posted that 1h after he posted his catch up post. I know he's US so was hoping he might have posted something after I went to bed....but no he didn't. | ||
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There are several things about both players that I'm coming across that I don't like, want to get some comments on them. Massive posts coming up... | ||
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On September 22 2015 00:48 Tictock wrote: So to his credit, LS has been pushed on pretty much all game long. I get that it can be frustrating to be scumread and pushed by almost everyone, but if that's the case then it should be pretty important to listen to the reasons why people are pushing scum on you and react to that. In this case LS has been pushed because of meta, and because he hasn't been giving very many reads this game. Besides his long post rehashing his D1 Damdred read LS has only stated that Fidei might be scum today. Multiple people have called him out for this or asked him to give more reads, but it hasn't happened. Hell just the fact that LS is only targeting lurkers with his reads today is fairly telling, but onto the claim. So rather than talk about reads or push on people LS thinks could be scum he decided to claim instead. Right off I'm noticing that there is too much focus on the "Wandering Wraith" point here. It's like LS is pushing that point harder than the fact that he is claiming Pope. In fact it is literally the main point of this post. Now it has been discussed that LS is uncomfortable lying (not sure how Rels got to incapable), which makes sense because as scum it is difficult to keep up with lies and fabricating reads and stuff takes a bit of work. So I have to think here, why would LS as town claim one of the worst roles for town to claim rather than simply giving out his unabashed and full reads on everyone? Surely it would be worth it to keep your role safe and make more efforts to play properly before resorting to claiming. I don't know LS all that well so maybe the pressure really did get to him, but I have a hard time seeing a town!LS claim so easily with this role. On the flip side, as Mafia what would be harder for LS to do? Fabricate reads on a bunch of people who he hasn't given reads on yet, or fakeclaim? Clearly the fakeclaim option is both easier and more beneficial to scum as they potentially get a nice soupkill if there is a CC. I also found LS's all caps posts following people questioning this claim to reak of faked emotion. Hard to back this point up, but if you look at LS's filter after his claim (pg 7 of his filter) he goes back and forth between using all caps. Sorta seems to me like he wanted to look like he got mad, but then dropped it when he threw out the crazy notion that Wraith RNG visited, then remembered what he was doing. Idk kinda a weakish point maybe. Alright. I'll comment on other parts of the thread but this post jumped out at me. Alright, I don't believe you have played with LS much but the all caps formatting is NAI. He lost his head in fakeclaiming AS TOWN in Himalayas to the point he almost got in trouble with us (the hosts). It is a running "joke" on TL that LS claims/fakeclaims (though only one the latter) as town under the absolute slightest pressure when it is unnecessary to do so - he freaks out about getting mislynched and he'll claim blue in suboptimal conditions when he is blue. He did it in Gaiden, he fakeclaimed in Himalayas at NIGHT (as town), this guy cannot handle the pressure as town and will just lose it. Onegu tried to policy lynch him for this because it is very destructive to town and his fakeclaim really hurt town early game in Himalayas. As for the way he's structured his sentences, if you know LS well enough, you will know that he is the king of run on sentences. He has been criticised for the way he runs on his sentences, it is extremely tenuous to work though but again NAI, people that KNOW HIM will just deal. BM and I (and likely others I might not remember) had tried to work with LS and D1 people were really stumbling through with how he was processing his thoughts. He explained he had issues with reading (fuck I forget what page or post reference that was on, but IMO it is critical for people that don't know LS to read that) comprehension and he was trying to work on that in a university course. Even if you were to ignore dick move analysis here, he has made references to that in prior games (Newbie LX, Himalayas, and I want to say Gaiden, but don't quote me on that) - but again you wouldn't probably know that unless you have played with him. Where I WILL push LS on the basis that I might be wrong (reference my last status post) is (1) broken meta, ie first time fakeclaiming as scum, which there is no prior knowledge of and (2) lack of reads when trying to work with him. He's pushing Damdred, though earlier Vivax questioned the intensity of that push, rightfully so, but to his credit, it may be hard to keep up that push when you are forced to defend yourself against wagons/pressure most of the game. I asked who else - he said fidei which one could throw that out as parroting. The problem? You don't really see how he got there. I can buy that last point. (3) his push on Tictock for his read progression on him is not natural or there was a jump in logic (which makes Tictock's first paragraph in his case against LS look REALLY weird I'll admit) and that was D1....it's near end of D2, where in the bloody hell did THAT read go? Of course the problem here is that you can argue something similar to 2, a ridiculous amount of pressure to sort through. (4) Looking through LS's filter he talks about the RNG factor on why geript would visit him - On September 20 2015 22:01 LightningStrike wrote: No offense but he would rather go to me since he was suspicious of me over you or his role is actually RNG and he visted me instead of you because of RNG idk I don't even know but I don't think's RNG he would visted me on purpose. On September 09 2015 23:40 Palmar wrote: [*]Wandering Wraith: Even in death you still haunt the living. Every night you can haunt a player, that player will know he was visited by the Wraith. If you visit Grandier or the Pope, they will learn your identity. Now THIS is bad for LS. Why would you talk about RNG then and then say why geript visited you now and you have no idea? LS you need to explain this. This looks really bad for you. | ||
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(4) Looking through LS's filter he talks about the RNG factor on why geript would visit him - On September 20 2015 22:01 LightningStrike wrote: No offense but he would rather go to me since he was suspicious of me over you or his role is actually RNG and he visted me instead of you because of RNG idk I don't even know but I don't think's RNG he would visted me on purpose. On September 09 2015 23:40 Palmar wrote: [*]Wandering Wraith: Even in death you still haunt the living. Every night you can haunt a player, that player will know he was visited by the Wraith. If you visit Grandier or the Pope, they will learn your identity. Now THIS is bad for LS. Why would you talk about RNG then and then say why geript visited you now and you have no idea? LS you need to explain this. This looks really bad for you. You brought up RNG, the OP doesn't even talk about that. Then you say later "he visited me" and you weren't sure why. Why did you say these things? | ||
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Here's an example. He brings up LS for pushing lurkers when he brought up Fidei except Fidei was NOT scumread by him for being a lurker in fact it was a reason that was in his filter. On September 20 2015 09:59 LightningStrike wrote: Idk quite honestly if I wrong on anyone could be James because I a huge sucker for people actually defend me when I get under fire he been kinda me focused I guess more than anyone filter % wise he wasn't talking much about anyone compared to me O_o LS scumread Fidei for hyperfocusing on him not for being lurky. Yes Fidei is lurky but that's not why he scumread him. Big difference in what he's trying to communicate there. There's that and the fact that the prior argument in his massive post he's trying to apply it as if LS was a rational town player when he is town, but I know for the fact that he is not. Where this gets murky is that Tictock I do not believe has actual exposure to playing with him, so that entire first part could just be sheer ignorance on his part. It's just that his Holy Guardians performance gives me some pause in townreading him for that post. | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also i give you a scenario HtS: LS is mafia. He is most likely being lynched on D2 because of rayn is pushing him. LS has said he will claim (which is true about 100% of the time either alignmetn). Mafia team (whoever that is who has any fucking brain) tells him; "Hey LS, see, geript was this role here. You need to say that he visited you and you got his role, because it will give out another townie and we can then soup two people if someone claims, or hell, maybe someone even believes you over the other guy who cc's you". What does LS do? It's not like he has to come up with this himself. He has a fucking team who can tell him what to do. LS has not fakeclaimed as scum, but no as I've said I'm not discounting that he won't break mafia, he easily could be here. Still want to see his response to my question honestly though :/ | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Are you talking about Tictock's big psot on LS' claim and play? Yeah I tried to break it down. The ONE point where I agree with him is why geript would visit LS and then that's what made me go back through LS's filter and I found something in LS's filter that makes him look really bad. He brought up something about geript RNGing who he'd visit so I just posed a question to LS now on it. The first half of Tictock's post was questioning the timing of LS's claim and doing it with little pressure. The problem with that sentiment is that LS as town is KNOWN for pulling that shit and known for losing his head as town under slight pressure. It has wrecked town before. That is what I tried to break down. | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:26 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I got some time before class. Exercist please at least shoot James because everyone including me think's mafia and he should be shot if you guys end up lynching me today. This will be my only post before class. EoD is NINE hours from now. You are telling me you have class for the next 9h? | ||
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On September 22 2015 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is a set of posts Damdred made when there was a big wagon on him and basically LS was the only counter-wagon. At some time before these posts Rels has made a case on Dandel. The thing is this kinda play makes no sense as mafia because you are basically trying to get lynched here if you are mafia. Damdred has obviously not read the case on Dandel before he makes his last post. That makes me almost definitely sure he has no team (who would tell him in scum QT that there is a case on Dandel he can save himself voting for). Instead of wanting to lynch LS Damdred stands behind his read on him. Now this could make sense if Damdred was mafia with LS, but then again, why doesn't he just vote for Dandel and "save them both"? It makes literally no sense Damdred is mafia here. The vote switch to Dandel becomes way more interesting given this fact, and even the push on Damdred becomes interesting here because every other person (me, geript, HtS) who are actually good at reading LS (sorry Damdred, but your tracking record on people who you are supposed to be good at reading at hasn't been.... quite good lately) thinks LS is mafia. Just checked - based on the bolded part of your quote, he did vote Dandel. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494815-season-of-the-witch-voting-thread?user=Damdred But based on the quotes I think I understand what you are saying and why Damdred might not be the correct lynch. Now Damdred is saying now that he doesn't believe LS's claim anyways. Hmmmmm......curious to hear his reasoning though. He's played enough with LS... | ||
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I'm ok going forward on the idea to check Damdred, and I think I'm ok lynching into BM or Dandel.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On September 19 2015 09:05 Tictock wrote: I'm at work so can't post much. Mostly just wanted to apologize for my EoD. Wasn't able to get a break before the day ended like I thought I would. Had to sneak away just to throw my vote on Dandel, and managed to check once more right before the day ended to make sure we were consolidated at least. I wont be around for next EoD either, but I'll not leave things so last min this time.[/QUOTE] Alright, this is all he says about Dandel, not a ninja vote, but you have the gap in explanation as to why the push on LS was dropped. Who else wanted him dead other than you and geript d1....a few people. And there was the threat of last minute shennanies but Tictock apparently wasn't around. But there was enough pressure to support a train on his primary scumread. So I agree that Tictock looks worse in this respect. Maybe he really is pulling another Holy Guardians performance. | ||
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On September 17 2015 23:53 Tictock wrote: I'm ok going forward on the idea to check Damdred, and I think I'm ok lynching into BM or Dandel. On September 19 2015 09:05 Tictock wrote: I'm at work so can't post much. Mostly just wanted to apologize for my EoD. Wasn't able to get a break before the day ended like I thought I would. Had to sneak away just to throw my vote on Dandel, and managed to check once more right before the day ended to make sure we were consolidated at least. I wont be around for next EoD either, but I'll not leave things so last min this time. Alright, this is all he says about Dandel, not a ninja vote, but you have the gap in explanation as to why the push on LS was dropped. Who else wanted him dead other than you and geript d1....a few people. And there was the threat of last minute shennanies but Tictock apparently wasn't around. But there was enough pressure to support a train on his primary scumread. So I agree that Tictock looks worse in this respect. Maybe he really is pulling another Holy Guardians performance. edit - fixed quotes | ||
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