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On June 17 2015 12:37 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:30 GlowingBear wrote:On June 17 2015 12:06 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 12:00 GlowingBear wrote:On June 17 2015 11:58 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:55 GlowingBear wrote:On June 17 2015 11:40 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 17 2015 11:26 GlowingBear wrote:
Like, Bugs, I want first to actually form a read on you. And for that I need to know how you're approaching the game.
Opinions on other players, for example, help me with that.
I wouldn't lynch her day one solely for activity. So talking about her NOW is a waste of time.
And talking ABOUT you is also. But talking WITH YOU is important to me. I think we have much better targets.
This fight between you two actually feels very weird. So let me get this straight. You want me to provide you reasons, and opinions. Which I certainly will, but right now I'm just not that interested in throwing around reads on people because it's a bit too early. This all is fine. You, however, don't find it odd that rsoultin is NOT doing exactly what you want me to do? Why the double standard here? If I am to take what you said at face value you seem to want to ignore rsoultin, but why? What difference does it make waiting it out? People said the same shit about LS last game and he flipped scum day 1. She hasn't contributed anything and in her responses to me and ritoky it certainly doesn't seem like she is going to contribute anything any time soon. That's not indicative of her being town and to me that makes her the best lynch right now. Because as I said I don't care for her and I want to form a read on you so I can know if I can work with you or not. Your reads were good last game. Help me identify townies? And stop saying I'm bad when you have no fucking grasp of what I'm talking about. I don't get why you cannot NOT be a prick. Geez. as I said already I'm not interested in divulging my reads right now, it's too early for me to divulge town reads. However you can read my response to breshke re Damdred if you're really interested in some of my other thought processes right now I've read it. It's just about Damdred, though. This is the damning part of your gameplay here. You're not reacting to EVERY weird posts. You're reacting to rsoultin and questions directed solely to you, ONLY. since you want to know why I call you dumb, this is pretty much it. I am not responding to other posts because there is nothing of value to respond to. I am looking at other players but it makes no difference to me right now because it is not even halfway into day 1 and none of those reads at this time matter for anything. Right now I can't tell whether you are purposely being obtuse as scum or if you are town and you just legitimately didn't pay enough attention to my play last game. To refresh your memory, this is how I play day 1. I firmly believe that players should refrain from throwing reads into the mix when they do not have enough information because it gives scum the opportunity to influence them and react to them before they are validated. Last game you can see this in my play when I rather abruptly shifted from tunneling you to tunneling your teammate LS. At that juncture I had enough people telling me that you were town that I started looking for alternate possibilities while still attacking you (because I wasn't fully convinced otherwise). That effort paid off in the end and at no point did I want to lynch anyone other than LS that day. Given how much resistance I took then it was the right decision, and commenting on other players would've likely ruined my reads. Now obviously that game is different and I got quite mad and posted my spreadsheet kinda late into the day but I was really desperate for people to listen to me on LS. Here I kinda am feeling a similar situation in which I really believe rsoultin is scum but I am not getting any support for it. Let me tell you something: Calling people bad without good reasoning makes people not wanting to support you because your read is shit anyway. You're the one who comes to the thread and say O HAI PEOPLE TELL ME WHO IS GOOD AND HOW THEY PLAY SO I CAN FORM READS BASED ON IDENTITY and then people tell you THE THINGS YOU'RE SAYING THAT RSOULTIN IS SCUM FOR IS NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE FOR HER and what is your answer? WHARRGARBL RSOULTIN SCUM I WON'T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE. Nothing of value? Like the list post I've made? They have reasoning. You can help me talking about that reasoning. But you decide not to. You prefer to keep going against rsoultin. I'd rather lynch both of you now because all you're doing is shitting the thread. I'm sick of coming back to here and see a discussion that will lead nowhere. ROFL yes, I think identity is important, but motivation is the most important. You can't use meta solely to call people scum because meta is hard to use and it's often not elucidative. That's why things like tonereads and blah blah whatever else you people call it nowadays are little more than copouts unless you can back them up extensively. Scum often use shitty meta to get away with not actually providing real motivational reads because it's easy to fake having a meta read. All you have to do is say that someone is not posting how they normally post and then bam, a bunch of stupid townies believe you because they have nothing better to go off of and they certainly don't have the time to fact check you. That's why when people use meta the onus is on them to provide the evidence. I like knowing who others think are good because it gives me good expectations. The problem is no one really gave me a good answer and besides Mig I don't really know anyone here anyway. Mig also hasn't bothered to post yet so what the fuck am I going to do with that? Also yes, the list post you made is worthless to me right now almost by virtue of being a list post. Why the fuck would you seed the thread with all of your reads before you can even be half confident in them? I would perhaps understand if you are close to 100% certain on particular players but given that one of your posts had 5 scum in a game with 17 people I seriously doubt you think that way about all of those in your list. also if you expect me to respond to this: Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Actual Listpost v1.0 Probs town- Holyflare (not posting + ninja vote on Bill Murray isn't a thing I see scumFlare comfortable at doing)
- Damdred (tone reading, looks like town, fluid posts)
- NydusHerMain(? need to keep an eye on him because when he got universally townread he stopped caring and just
- came back to comment on posts that cited him, which is mafia indicative)
- Kelsier (? need to keep an eye on him because he oddly tried to disrupt town while throwing suspicions on LS without actually trying to convince thread with strong arguments)
- ritoky (trolled but jumped on rsoultin as a clear reaction to thread direction, not a strong read but could me town
- Breshke (thinking critically about the game)
- LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
Null- rsoultin (not caring for her today)
- Bill Murray (could lynch pls)
- Bugs (some of his approach looks scummy, some others look townie - in other words, I like that he pushes rsoultin but I dislike his unawareness of the rest of the thread - last game he was reacting to mostly everything but here he is tunneling rsoultin, which is a very easy behaviour for scum to adopt)
- Fidei (meh)
- Mig (who?)
Probs Mafia- Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
- boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred then you should rethink your approach. Like I said before I'm not going to bother seeding the thread with my reads. Choose what you think is important, otherwise I'm not going to give you shit because your approach sucks.
Do you need a mirror?
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It's a shame we have to come to this kind of discussion, really. Maybe you can have good reads and others don't, but your inability to work with people overwhelms any good town trait you may have, bugs.
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On June 17 2015 12:42 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:Probs Mafia- Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
- boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred How do you have onegu as scum for that reason? It sounds like you're saying that he was scum read for not claiming VT so he didn't need to claim VT? So why shouldn't he claim VT if he's being scumread in other games for not claiming it? Also, if you think he prefers playing scum, don't you think he'd be posting a bit more than just "gosh darnit I'm VT" ?
I meant that his need to claim VT right away felt like he was trying to gain towncred (as he was scumread for not claiming VT in another game), and this need to gain towncred fits better a mafia perspective than town perspective in my opinion.
Actually, I decided to go re-read his filter and I've got another impression on his opening. It felt... bored. Meh. Breshke is right, my read on Onegu is weak.
Rescinding the scumread now.
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On June 17 2015 12:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:42 GlowingBear wrote:
It's a shame we have to come to this kind of discussion, really. Maybe you can have good reads and others don't, but your inability to work with people overwhelms any good town trait you may have, bugs. I'm not unwilling to work with you. I just don't want to take your approach because I disagree with it. What exactly do you think is the benefit of putting forth so many reads less than 5 hours into the game?
Discussion development.
I give reads, you comment on them, I comment on your comments, we get information in thread.
All those reads are weak, yes. But they are enough to get people talking. The first 24 hours of the game is all about gathering information IMO.
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I feel SO bad for voting rsoultin...
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On June 17 2015 12:49 NydusHerMain wrote:
@GB
How strongly do you actually believe in your reads when you say something like "probably town" or "probably mafia?" I think I might just be getting thrown off by your choice of wording.
Not strongly. Those reads are there exactly to discuss. As long as we keep discussing reads, the odds that town gets correctly organised gets bigger and bigger.
I think that mafia has a hard time fabricating reads on people. REASONED list posts is HELL to mafia IMO. Plus they always get in some kind of contradiction when doing that constantly. So why not? Posts causes certain kind of reaction (even if they are weak) on townies because they DON'T HAVE PERFECT INFORMATION. They don't fabricate them, they come genuinely. Mafia, in the other hand, needs to fabricate reasons, and they do that according to their mafia agenda. When they try to actually see the game in the big picture, it gets very difficult to fabricate a whole world of reads.
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By the way, trust the tone read rsoultin gives on damdred and me
I've been discussing games with her for a long while and he does that every time. And she does it correctly.
Like, I told her I was freezingfoot last game and she said: you're scum right? you don't feel like town gb
I trust her tone reads as genuine
What is rubbing me the wrong way is the shitfight she entered and the refusal to get off of it.
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K, rsoultin, dear, who is scum apart from bugs and why?
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Ok, I'll get out of here because I already have 4 pages of filter.
That's too much spam.
See you guys tomorrow.
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On June 17 2015 13:04 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 13:03 GlowingBear wrote:
K, rsoultin, dear, who is scum apart from bugs and why? god does no one read my posts @.@ and they wonder why i don't bother actually fleshing out reads
OOOOOOPS sorry
VA, KSC and null HF right?
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rsoultin and bugs, this is what is going to happen: we are not lynching any of you on day1.
I would LOVE if you keep talking with each other but does not talk ABOUT each other.
Can we get to this point?
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On June 17 2015 13:11 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 12:58 GlowingBear wrote:
By the way, trust the tone read rsoultin gives on damdred and me
I've been discussing games with her for a long while and he does that every time. And she does it correctly.
Like, I told her I was freezingfoot last game and she said: you're scum right? you don't feel like town gb
I trust her tone reads as genuine
What is rubbing me the wrong way is the shitfight she entered and the refusal to get off of it. I agree the shitfight is not helping town but I don't think it is alignment indicative. Even before they interacted i knew her and bugs would not get along no matter their alignment unless they were mafia together. That is like the only thing I got out of that shitfight the fact that they i think they can not be mafia together. But yeah I don't think you should judge them on the shitfight because it is jsut their personalities and yeah its boring as fuck but it is because they are both stubborn. They both seem likely town to me now another reason the shitfight is boring as hell. GB why are you sheeping HF? Wheres the townread come from you might have said but i missed it.
The problem about the fight is that it felt unnatural to me. Keeping on a tunneled fight is what Damdred and GB did in a game before, since day1. Another Boring Mafia, I believe it's something like that. It's very easy to get this tunneled.
I'm sheeping because it's an old promise, and I can always lynch him if he is wrong.
Also, I said that HF is a very capable scum and I don't think him, as scum, would be playing the way he is playing. It's outside of his "safe zone". Weak reason, I know. But it's still indicative.
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Nydus, what do you think of my read on boxerfred?
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On June 17 2015 13:18 Damdred wrote:
That takes awhile to typenon phone le sigh. However I have lots of good reads mow, so the game is going to be decent day 1
I can relate to this. Lots of townreads.
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On June 17 2015 13:23 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 13:15 GlowingBear wrote:On June 17 2015 13:11 Breshke wrote:On June 17 2015 12:58 GlowingBear wrote:
By the way, trust the tone read rsoultin gives on damdred and me
I've been discussing games with her for a long while and he does that every time. And she does it correctly.
Like, I told her I was freezingfoot last game and she said: you're scum right? you don't feel like town gb
I trust her tone reads as genuine
What is rubbing me the wrong way is the shitfight she entered and the refusal to get off of it. I agree the shitfight is not helping town but I don't think it is alignment indicative. Even before they interacted i knew her and bugs would not get along no matter their alignment unless they were mafia together. That is like the only thing I got out of that shitfight the fact that they i think they can not be mafia together. But yeah I don't think you should judge them on the shitfight because it is jsut their personalities and yeah its boring as fuck but it is because they are both stubborn. They both seem likely town to me now another reason the shitfight is boring as hell. GB why are you sheeping HF? Wheres the townread come from you might have said but i missed it. The problem about the fight is that it felt unnatural to me. Keeping on a tunneled fight is what Damdred and GB did in a game before, since day1. Another Boring Mafia, I believe it's something like that. It's very easy to get this tunneled. I'm sheeping because it's an old promise, and I can always lynch him if he is wrong. Also, I said that HF is a very capable scum and I don't think him, as scum, would be playing the way he is playing. It's outside of his "safe zone". Weak reason, I know. But it's still indicative. wtf are you talking about yourself in the third person?
I don't know.
Ask GB
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On June 17 2015 13:22 NydusHerMain wrote:
I ignored it because I don't even get boxer's joke...
Understanding his joke doesn't matter for the read I gave.
Why being worried with a weak read on Onegu but not on a possible weak read on boxerfred?
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On June 17 2015 13:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
anyway I'm out of here, need to sleep.
@GB if you didn't notice what I said earlier, I'm willing to discuss with you. I just want you to give me specific things you think are important. I'm not going to discuss big lists because I do not find them useful. If you disagree then obviously the best course of action for you is to work with me rather than expecting me to conform to your process, because I'm not sure in how many more ways I can say that I think dumping reads into the thread is a bad thing to do when I do not feel confident in doing so. Unfortunately I do not feel the same way as I felt in the previous game, although it is much earlier in the game now than it was then when I decided that I had a good handle on things.
Yeah, I've read it. It's awesome to know that, by the way 
We will disagree on giving list posts, but we can work together on what we agree with.
For now, I just want you to agree with me that we can analyse rsoultin on day2 - it's a common "policy" to not lynch the biggest filters on day1, and she has 6 pages :O
I'm not lynching you either, which makes any discussion regarding deciding a lynch on any of you useless, at least to me. So I want someone that we can work together.
I've read your suspicions on Damdred, I disagree with that.
What do you think of boxerfred's opening?
Like, he just made a joke and fucked off. Extreeeeemely weird.
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On June 17 2015 13:31 NydusHerMain wrote:
I mean if we want to get really picky, if he really is from Germany like it says on his TL profile thing, it would've been 4am when he made the joke so maybe he just wanted to get a "hello" post in before he went to sleep.
ok fair enough
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On June 17 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:
I'm going to start calling you Ritbad since i'm not in your town list.
However, i'm not sure if I would lynch Fidei86 or not, he buddied up to me pretty good....
But yea that list doesn't look bad to me Oneg is still null for me I guess.
any scum read?
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On June 17 2015 13:41 Damdred wrote:
nope it doesn't make it worse rit.
GB, I currently don't have a scum lean/read its just a straight POE lynch list at this juncture. Most of everyone who posted anything considerable has looked pretty towny at this juncture.
Not sure if its horrible or not that i'm not super paranoid at this moment
Heh it's super weird, I can totally relate. I'm having close to NO scumreads at this point
Super weird.
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EPT
