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On May 07 2015 01:45 Half the Sky wrote:
sicklucker and Celestial - evaluate Superbia's behaviour INDEPENDENT of meta (or in this case his RB claim).
There are town and mafia motivations for claiming RB.
My contention is that his behaviour in this game there is a mafia agenda. To sum up my arguments.
1 Loaded questions - both to myself and Stutters - generally unproductive
2 Misdirection plays
3 The quote where he talks in absolutes where he's basically asking to dismiss him as a scum candidate
4 The DT claim request - DT claims this early in the day destroy the day
5 Behaviour EoD 1 was a "toys out the pram" approach to getting me lynched and his read progression was lacking with OMGUS in there
6 Post lynch he has ZERO focus on me and goes off on Stutters
And finally the meta - I am not meta reading it but the above looks very bad, I don't care that he's active because activity alone does not guarantee he's pure.
I hate defending myself as town and I fucking hate explaining myself. What is my goal here as mafia? "chaos"? What utter bullshit. I am hard to follow, and it has caused me to get misslynched in the past 2 games, so get over it. I don't explain shit because I hate doing it. I want to find mafia and solve the game, not writes pages of text regarding my thought process. Blargh.
1. Loaded questions? Are you fucking serious? I asked stutters for the rest of the team simply because I wanted to know his mafia reads outside of prp. What other loaded questions were there? And how do they come from a mafia mindset.
2. I genuinely don't even know what this means. Is this an assumption of my underlying mindset?
3. I should be dismissed from being a scum candidate. FF is my favorite player to play with, even if we are differently aligned. He was obviously VT and not a role as well. Why the fuck do I ever put KP on him? And before you bring up WIFOM, I have no reason to cover my ass or to use d1 KP to get WIFOM going. It's absolutely suboptimal. I hunt for PRs with KP, or strong town. You want to paint the world in which I kill my favorite player who is OBVIOUSLY VT and to WASTE THE ROLEBLOCK. Wow, what mafia play.
4. DT claim? What are you even talking about? Is this the whole red check confirm thing I asked because someone softed it? Yeah, I want to know whether a questionable person is adamant about scum-reading (and literally only doing that) one of my townies.
5. Well at least I didn't fucking join the scott wagon like the rest of the "townies", right? I tried to salvage a disastrous d1 by going on you. Yes, I absolutely believed you were mafia at EoD1. Your two "red" reads? Both town. I did not see any real scum hunting, just someone tagging along trying to appear town. Sure, your posts were big, but mafia can make big posts. Even if you flipped town it would've gotten us way more information from the votes than the garbage we have now.
6. Because I re-evaluated you completely and this is the world I want to live in today.
Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me.
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Like do me a fucking favour, and assume that both camps are town (super/ritoky + celestial/hts) for today and see how that works out, okay?
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Also The Shining should be the singular focus right now. I stopped pressuring him d1 to give him an opportunity to contribute to the game, and he has done absolutely nothing. Kill, kill, kill.
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sicklucker's mechanics are garbage.
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We don't lynch prp because prp subscribed to my thought patterns d1, which buys him a no-lynch today.
How in the seven hells do you want to lynch prp when people like the shining have not done anything after pressure was removed.
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On May 07 2015 02:47 ritoky wrote:
super, what do you think of me null reading you cuz of your mason thing?
It's town. You're paranoid, it's fine. Either that or you're trying to pocket me right now, but I'm not going to be concerned about you until it's like final 3 or something.
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On May 07 2015 02:48 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 02:34 Superbia wrote:On May 07 2015 01:45 Half the Sky wrote:
sicklucker and Celestial - evaluate Superbia's behaviour INDEPENDENT of meta (or in this case his RB claim).
There are town and mafia motivations for claiming RB.
My contention is that his behaviour in this game there is a mafia agenda. To sum up my arguments.
1 Loaded questions - both to myself and Stutters - generally unproductive
2 Misdirection plays
3 The quote where he talks in absolutes where he's basically asking to dismiss him as a scum candidate
4 The DT claim request - DT claims this early in the day destroy the day
5 Behaviour EoD 1 was a "toys out the pram" approach to getting me lynched and his read progression was lacking with OMGUS in there
6 Post lynch he has ZERO focus on me and goes off on Stutters
And finally the meta - I am not meta reading it but the above looks very bad, I don't care that he's active because activity alone does not guarantee he's pure. I hate defending myself as town and I fucking hate explaining myself. What is my goal here as mafia? "chaos"? What utter bullshit. I am hard to follow, and it has caused me to get misslynched in the past 2 games, so get over it. I don't explain shit because I hate doing it. I want to find mafia and solve the game, not writes pages of text regarding my thought process. Blargh. 1. Loaded questions? Are you fucking serious? I asked stutters for the rest of the team simply because I wanted to know his mafia reads outside of prp. What other loaded questions were there? And how do they come from a mafia mindset. 2. I genuinely don't even know what this means. Is this an assumption of my underlying mindset? 3. I should be dismissed from being a scum candidate. FF is my favorite player to play with, even if we are differently aligned. He was obviously VT and not a role as well. Why the fuck do I ever put KP on him? And before you bring up WIFOM, I have no reason to cover my ass or to use d1 KP to get WIFOM going. It's absolutely suboptimal. I hunt for PRs with KP, or strong town. You want to paint the world in which I kill my favorite player who is OBVIOUSLY VT and to WASTE THE ROLEBLOCK. Wow, what mafia play. 4. DT claim? What are you even talking about? Is this the whole red check confirm thing I asked because someone softed it? Yeah, I want to know whether a questionable person is adamant about scum-reading (and literally only doing that) one of my townies. 5. Well at least I didn't fucking join the scott wagon like the rest of the "townies", right? I tried to salvage a disastrous d1 by going on you. Yes, I absolutely believed you were mafia at EoD1. Your two "red" reads? Both town. I did not see any real scum hunting, just someone tagging along trying to appear town. Sure, your posts were big, but mafia can make big posts. Even if you flipped town it would've gotten us way more information from the votes than the garbage we have now. 6. Because I re-evaluated you completely and this is the world I want to live in today. Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me. Regarding #1 - the question where you asked me what I thought of my D1 performance. That was loaded because what does that tell you about my alignment? If I say it's good or bad, then what? Regarding #3 - FF can be a medic dodge or the result of a blue hunt attempt. We will never know. And in the presence of a veteran, you always RB and kill so that people CANNOT claim RB and confirm themselves town. Scum want to limit information. Killing the person you roleblock DOES EXACTLY THAT. Regarding #4, I'm talking about when you said for Stutters to claim if you had a red check on prplhz. Why would you do it so early and try and direct scum actions at night? I could understand a newbie doing this not understanding the ramifications but you are experienced to know this. You get him to out that early in the day, everyone AFK votes the red check and nothing gets done, DT dies that night. In Student 5 this exactly happened, and I don't want that mistake happening again. Regarding #6, you pinged Stutters post-lynch and you read my scum games only D2 so you can't say that you pinged Stutters BECAUSE you re-evaluated me. Because you pinged him BEFORE you read my scum games, not the other way around.
1. If you were going to say either, I would want to know your thought process behind it, and how it has affected your progression of reads (are you re-evaluating, etc.). This is why I don't want to explain shit like this. I don't want scum (and therefore, anyone) to know the idea behind the questions I'm asking. Is it benign? Is it serious? Who knows but me.
3. Except FF was never blue there, and thus a shitty medic dodge. If I thought FF was blue I would've pressured him EoD (or EoN, w/e) for changing his mind on things to generally dodgy reads and see if I can get a better role-read on him. Instead, when Ritoky (iirc) asks me what I think of FF, and I say he's probably still town and I leave it at that. Scum don't give a shit about who they roleblock n1 specifically for this reason. You are going about it the wrong way. I am town and scum had some sort of role-read on me. No idea why.
4. BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT. He was pushing hard on prp the entire time and he was shady as fuck for lurking EoD1 (still is) and getting caught hard (oh btw, pretty everyone I've caught lurking at EoD1 has been scum during past games). Then all he does is tunnel on prp hard for small, benign reasons and throwing some scum on me (iirc), which is just scummy as fuck. So, I want to know if I need to waste my time reading him or if we can lynch prp and I can re-evaluate from that flip. The whole different game same story thing is cute, but ultimately irrelevant. It's supposed to be about my alignment, not your opinion on cop outing early d2 with a red. Wanting the cop to out with a red in a vacuum is absolutely not alignment indicative, let alone these circumstances (which make it probably more town-indicative).
6. What does this have to do with anything? Maybe I answered your initial question incorrectly: I caught stutters actively lurking red-handedly. I thought it was super scummy, I go after stutters. I saw no reason to keep bashing heads with you since the lynch was already done, and I had room to re-evaluate everything.
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On May 07 2015 02:56 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 02:34 Superbia wrote:
Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me. And if you're town, you'll resolve my concerns (or the concerns of any town who scumreads you). There are points I've gone about even with ritoky just now that make it less likely that you are scum. But I am putting out my thoughts in full so you see where I'm coming from. I have nothing to hide as town. I'm not voting you down for shits and giggles. I'm explaining what I don't like and why I don't. And there are others I have a problem with as well.
I have you as town. This is why I feel this is a tremendous waste of time. Nothing personal, but once I think someone is town I'm kind of done with them. 
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Also I'll re-read prp since I am basing this purely on what I remember.
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Again, his reads lined up with mine d1. He also asked ritoky something about his loopiness which was my exact thought process at that point in time. Supports wagon on HtS. Supports push on stutters for getting caught lurking EoD1.
This is why I am/was reading him town. Will re-evaluate in a few, as I've just said.
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On May 07 2015 03:29 sicklucker wrote:no they are not if your town you should agree with them. So far 3 people have agreed my logic is ok and no one disagreed
And you have all of these people as town?
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On May 07 2015 03:29 -Celestial- wrote:What reads? His "reads" D1 as far as I can tell amounted to a bad feeling on Shining, a bad feeling on me and an OMGUS on HtS which turned into a wagon after you picked it up and started pushing. As well as a bunch of rambling about how he just didn't like the scott wagon, but never actually seemed to specifically read scott unless I missed it somewhere. His strongest "push" was him saying that someone ELSE needed to push the HtS wagon with around 40 minutes to go here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=38#749You seem to be giving him a totally free pass for doing virtually nothing at all.
K. Let's all circlejerk onto prp like we did with scott. Like I haven't even re-evaluated him yet, but the fact that so many people are jumping on him so readily already irks the shit out of me. It's almost never mafia then. Same with scott d1. I haven't re-valuated him because I have no fucking interest in jumping on yet another singular wagon.
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On May 07 2015 03:39 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 03:36 Superbia wrote:On May 07 2015 03:29 -Celestial- wrote:What reads? His "reads" D1 as far as I can tell amounted to a bad feeling on Shining, a bad feeling on me and an OMGUS on HtS which turned into a wagon after you picked it up and started pushing. As well as a bunch of rambling about how he just didn't like the scott wagon, but never actually seemed to specifically read scott unless I missed it somewhere. His strongest "push" was him saying that someone ELSE needed to push the HtS wagon with around 40 minutes to go here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=38#749You seem to be giving him a totally free pass for doing virtually nothing at all. K. Let's all circlejerk onto prp like we did with scott. Like I haven't even re-evaluated him yet, but the fact that so many people are jumping on him so readily already irks the shit out of me. It's almost never mafia then. Same with scott d1. I haven't re-valuated him because I have no fucking interest in jumping on yet another singular wagon. Right now there's three people on prplhz, two on you and two on Shining. That's hardly circlejerking onto a singular wagon.
The two on me are wasted and I'm not counting them. I feel like I am one of the most vocal and prominent people in town. If I switch who the fuck is going to provide a different voice?
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Like I'm going to re-evaluate him in a bit, so whatever.
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On May 07 2015 04:35 y0su wrote:Superbia d1 posting was sporadic and I can let some go with his birthday. His EoD comes off as either just super rushed or trying to create confusion. His posts read like he doesn't have any aim but to get people to vote HtS in a hurry. His posts have a lot of pressure (am I using that right?) to get answers but any conclusions he keeps to himself. He also does a 180 on HtS (based on her meta - not that he survived the night) but keeps his (unexplained) pressure on dis (although as a 3rd wagon). I like is desire for multiple trains but that seems NAI *I haven't had a chance to read his latest - HtS wanted some EoD analysis* Okay, he's gone full red with his defense of prpl. I think we can have 2 wagons without defending one of them. prplhz more like rdhz. No d1 excuse... no filter.. OMGUS vote on HtS. All of that could change if we get some d2 out of him. I particularly don't like + Show Spoiler +you guys need to push this hts thing btw. don't know when's the last time i saw a scum be up for lynch and then oppose the alternative wagon (well okay i sort of did that when it was me or LS in titanic but that was probably a bad move lol). I've been waiting for some d2 content from him... all I see is statistical claims. (one of my favorite quotes of all times is "figures don't lie, but liars do the figuring"). Since then, I've always been a skeptic and need some proof(s). "75% of statistics are made up" Stutters695 another "no d1" case... but picking up a bit more now. His posts seem to have direction but it's all at prp without much more than meta. So far I'm not trying to form a scum team so I'm not concerned with a red read voting another red read. Going to be on more now and looking into d2 more critically (especially the interactions of the reds and half red)
So my team mate sicklucker is pushing me?
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On May 07 2015 04:43 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 03:08 Superbia wrote:On May 07 2015 02:56 Half the Sky wrote:On May 07 2015 02:34 Superbia wrote:
Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me. And if you're town, you'll resolve my concerns (or the concerns of any town who scumreads you). There are points I've gone about even with ritoky just now that make it less likely that you are scum. But I am putting out my thoughts in full so you see where I'm coming from. I have nothing to hide as town. I'm not voting you down for shits and giggles. I'm explaining what I don't like and why I don't. And there are others I have a problem with as well. I have you as town. This is why I feel this is a tremendous waste of time. Nothing personal, but once I think someone is town I'm kind of done with them. can you explain your TR on HtS? Specifically when and how did you go from voting for her to TR?
I don't think she stays that active and adamant after surviving EoD1 as scum. There was more but I forgot. I'm no longer interested in lynching her today.
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There's always an active mafia.
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On May 07 2015 04:55 -Celestial- wrote:
@HtS: Not a fan of the responses. I can understand some of his arguments but it seems to me he's playing this way too close to his chest for me to be comfortable with.
If I had to pick one thing in particular out I really don't like its the fight back against the whole killing FF thing. He's insisting that FF was never blue. But we can't prove that's what he actually thought or that's what ANYONE thought. I don't recall anyone going "oh that FF is definitely not blue" because that'd be a godawful town play anyway. The argument then switches to "if I thought FF was blue I'd do X, Y, Z" which is entirely not alignment indicative because he can say literally anything at all he wants here and nobody can prove otherwise. Then he's continuing to hammer away at the fact that he claims he got roleblocked and mafia has a role read on him; which is another thing nobody can actually verify.
There does seem to be a hint of frustration that he claims he feels when people scum him when he's town; but that could easily be him feeling pressured as red either. I don't like that he's making a big deal about the fact that people should dismiss him as a scum candidate on the basis of things he's claiming that nobody else can prove.
Read FF's filter and then tell me he could be blue. Like the whole premise of me being scum is ridiculous. I'm not joking. It's the dumbest thing ever.
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prp's whole "I'm just not trying to tunnel" looks horrible. Otherwise his filter looks fine.
y0su, what are your other reads? What do you think about people like The Shining, tictock and disformation?
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Like prp's filter is slim but that's not alignment indicative afaik. Let me actually check his meta.
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EPT
