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On February 26 2015 05:53 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 05:49 Eden1892 wrote:Good job not even reading, yamato. On February 26 2015 04:45 Eden1892 wrote:Responding to older stuff I missed b/c I overestimated how much time I had before work. I reserve the right to make hilariously blatant contradictions after I read the posts from after I left On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town. And now who's chainsaw-defending, huh? I just checked your filter, you literally haven't given a read on Wave all game long. Yet as soon as I start pushing Wave you literally make things up (I "don't have a case on Wave" even though I've posted it and quoted it here for you) and start shit flinging without even so much as voting for me. I doubt that Wave is mafia. I have my reasons. It's not really necessary to defend Wave because he can do that himself. Not to mention, you're the only person who believes your read and no one takes you seriously. I'm not voting you because the Snarfs lynch is better. You COULD be town, but it's becoming increasingly unlikely.
This is fucking stupid. You say I have no case after obviously missing it in my filter, I post it again for you to read, your response is "he's town because reasons, also you're bad lol!"
Fuck you I hope we lynch you after Wave
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On February 26 2015 05:54 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 05:51 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote:
Why do you think snarfs is so townie, Eden? First of all, I never said that. I have him as not a lynch today, not "so townie." You obviously aren't even reading my filter, so let me quote the relevant part for you: On February 25 2015 12:50 Eden1892 wrote:On February 25 2015 12:42 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 15:00 Snarfs wrote:
I was suspicious of Damdred for not really commenting on Tormented's filter. However, he said he was going to leave about two hours ago now to go to bed. Then stayed. Seems pretty towny to me. I added some more on Damdred at the bottom of this post as I was going through filters. Snarfs, this is bad and you should feel bad. The decision to check the thread says sweet fuck all about alignment. It is a low-quality but very sincere read IMO. I think it is a pretty townie thought process, cause I know when I'm town I'm looking for stuff like that, and as mafia I'm looking not to hand out bad townreads that I might want to walk back later. If they're partners then that goes away, but I think Damdred is town, so I'm not really putting any weight on the possibility I already quoted that. You're the one who isn't reading.
Then why don't you have a halfway-coherent argument against it?
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On February 26 2015 05:53 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 05:49 Eden1892 wrote:Good job not even reading, yamato. On February 26 2015 04:45 Eden1892 wrote:Responding to older stuff I missed b/c I overestimated how much time I had before work. I reserve the right to make hilariously blatant contradictions after I read the posts from after I left On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town. And now who's chainsaw-defending, huh? I just checked your filter, you literally haven't given a read on Wave all game long. Yet as soon as I start pushing Wave you literally make things up (I "don't have a case on Wave" even though I've posted it and quoted it here for you) and start shit flinging without even so much as voting for me. You COULD be town, but it's becoming increasingly unlikely.
Commit to a fucking read on me you coward
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Reposting this so people can see it and sheep it
On February 26 2015 04:45 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town.
On February 26 2015 05:44 Eden1892 wrote:
Here we are just over 2 hours out from the lynch and Wave, after spending the better half of the last 24 hours on a woe-is-me I'm-so-lost pity party, is content just to fling stupid one-liner shit instead of trying to find mafia. How are we not lynching this guy?
(EDITOR'S NOTE 2h3m to lynch: Still not trying to figure anything out.)
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On February 26 2015 05:57 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 05:55 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:54 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:51 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote:
Why do you think snarfs is so townie, Eden? First of all, I never said that. I have him as not a lynch today, not "so townie." You obviously aren't even reading my filter, so let me quote the relevant part for you: On February 25 2015 12:50 Eden1892 wrote:On February 25 2015 12:42 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 15:00 Snarfs wrote:
I was suspicious of Damdred for not really commenting on Tormented's filter. However, he said he was going to leave about two hours ago now to go to bed. Then stayed. Seems pretty towny to me. I added some more on Damdred at the bottom of this post as I was going through filters. Snarfs, this is bad and you should feel bad. The decision to check the thread says sweet fuck all about alignment. It is a low-quality but very sincere read IMO. I think it is a pretty townie thought process, cause I know when I'm town I'm looking for stuff like that, and as mafia I'm looking not to hand out bad townreads that I might want to walk back later. If they're partners then that goes away, but I think Damdred is town, so I'm not really putting any weight on the possibility I already quoted that. You're the one who isn't reading. Then why don't you have a halfway-coherent argument against it? It's not necessary to have an argument against a pathetically weak early game townread that I completely disagree with. The post as a whole is a joke. Probulous was right to point it out, specifically this wishy-washy language on Damdred that essentially says nothing meaningful.
How is it pathetically weak and why do you disagree? I said it was a bad read, but it was a sincere one, which is what's more important. You don't lynch people for having bad reads, you lynch people for being mafia. Mafia can have good or bad reads. Town can have good or bad reads. The guy was handing out townreads for weak reasons, why would you do that as mafia when you didn't have to and it might be awkward to walk it back later to lynch the people you townread?
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On February 26 2015 05:58 Snarfs wrote:
Eden, could you please stop arguing with yamato and explain the Wave/artanis association?
I'd rather not tbh, not a lot of time and it's weak. The gist of it is that Artanis was pretty clearly steering the lynch toward yamato and away from Wave right as I was starting to feel like Wave was the right lynch of the two, and it wasn't convincing. But it's BS unflipped associations until Wave flips scum so I didn't want to waste time on it.
Will you lynch Wave with me today?
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On February 26 2015 06:04 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 15:02 Snarfs wrote:
You have my sword, Yamato.
Thoughts on the Shining and sicklucker's entrance so far? Is this something town does these days? I mean, look at this stuff. "you have my sword!!!1!1!" yet he doesn't vote, and follows it up by asking a puffball question. ugh.
...ok, that's actually pretty sensible. I don't agree with your reading him as insincere though. Call me a sucker I guess but I really don't see what he's done that is improbably town. If we just accept that he's not the best townie by TL mafia standards then most of this pretty much disappears tbh.
I really need you to tell me why you're so sure Wave is town though before I can consider going anywhere else today.
@Snarfs lol no I'm probably not lynching Artanis today. I'm not all that suspicious of him and I don't think there's any traction for that. I really think it has to be Wave
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ugh two people afk near deadline on the wrong wagon is gonna make me burst a blood vessel
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On February 26 2015 06:10 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 06:07 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 06:04 yamato77 wrote:On February 24 2015 15:02 Snarfs wrote:
You have my sword, Yamato.
Thoughts on the Shining and sicklucker's entrance so far? Is this something town does these days? I mean, look at this stuff. "you have my sword!!!1!1!" yet he doesn't vote, and follows it up by asking a puffball question. ugh. ...ok, that's actually pretty sensible. I don't agree with your reading him as insincere though. Call me a sucker I guess but I really don't see what he's done that is improbably town. If we just accept that he's not the best townie by TL mafia standards then most of this pretty much disappears tbh. I really need you to tell me why you're so sure Wave is town though before I can consider going anywhere else today. @Snarfs lol no I'm probably not lynching Artanis today. I'm not all that suspicious of him and I don't think there's any traction for that. I really think it has to be Wave I got excited when both yamato and I said the same thing about Tormented at the same time. Hence the sword comment.
^c'mon guys, how is that not credible?
And holy shit yamato how are you voting this guy when he mindmelded with you on Tormented early in the game. He noticed the same thing you did and posted it at the same time. C'mon
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Yeah I know that's old news but I just read the segment in question and it's a textbook mindmeld moment. I would never lynch somebody who did that with me (and I know this because I have before and inevitably they're town, mafia just don't do this).
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On February 26 2015 06:15 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 06:13 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 06:10 Snarfs wrote:On February 26 2015 06:07 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 06:04 yamato77 wrote:On February 24 2015 15:02 Snarfs wrote:
You have my sword, Yamato.
Thoughts on the Shining and sicklucker's entrance so far? Is this something town does these days? I mean, look at this stuff. "you have my sword!!!1!1!" yet he doesn't vote, and follows it up by asking a puffball question. ugh. ...ok, that's actually pretty sensible. I don't agree with your reading him as insincere though. Call me a sucker I guess but I really don't see what he's done that is improbably town. If we just accept that he's not the best townie by TL mafia standards then most of this pretty much disappears tbh. I really need you to tell me why you're so sure Wave is town though before I can consider going anywhere else today. @Snarfs lol no I'm probably not lynching Artanis today. I'm not all that suspicious of him and I don't think there's any traction for that. I really think it has to be Wave I got excited when both yamato and I said the same thing about Tormented at the same time. Hence the sword comment. ^c'mon guys, how is that not credible? And holy shit yamato how are you voting this guy when he mindmelded with you on Tormented early in the game. He noticed the same thing you did and posted it at the same time. C'mon Really doesn't mean much tbh I have meta reasons but I don't feel like quoting all the stuff I read from his previous games. He's playing how he plays as mafia. As town he's much more direct.
Does he have past games in the directory?
Fuck it I'll look lol
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OK admittedly I only skimmed one sample of each, but he seems like he's more direct in his older games as both alignments... And about two years have passed since then. So I don't know how much stock I can put into (ostensibly) a tone-based read I'm not even clearly seeing that's also two years old. His game is different from his town games before but it seems different from his mafia ones too. Do you have any specific games I should be looking at? I get not wanting to go all the way back and dig up the exact posts, but I'm not getting what you're saying here.
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And also why is Wave town to you? That was the first time you said he was all game. Obviously I don't see it lol
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On February 26 2015 06:22 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 06:15 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2015 06:13 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 06:10 Snarfs wrote:On February 26 2015 06:07 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 06:04 yamato77 wrote:On February 24 2015 15:02 Snarfs wrote:
You have my sword, Yamato.
Thoughts on the Shining and sicklucker's entrance so far? Is this something town does these days? I mean, look at this stuff. "you have my sword!!!1!1!" yet he doesn't vote, and follows it up by asking a puffball question. ugh. ...ok, that's actually pretty sensible. I don't agree with your reading him as insincere though. Call me a sucker I guess but I really don't see what he's done that is improbably town. If we just accept that he's not the best townie by TL mafia standards then most of this pretty much disappears tbh. I really need you to tell me why you're so sure Wave is town though before I can consider going anywhere else today. @Snarfs lol no I'm probably not lynching Artanis today. I'm not all that suspicious of him and I don't think there's any traction for that. I really think it has to be Wave I got excited when both yamato and I said the same thing about Tormented at the same time. Hence the sword comment. ^c'mon guys, how is that not credible? And holy shit yamato how are you voting this guy when he mindmelded with you on Tormented early in the game. He noticed the same thing you did and posted it at the same time. C'mon Really doesn't mean much tbh I have meta reasons but I don't feel like quoting all the stuff I read from his previous games. He's playing how he plays as mafia. As town he's much more direct. lol. I've changed in 2 years, I'll give you that.
Now you sound like you're agreeing with yamato's read that your tone/etc. is different from your past town games. Without giving a big life spiel or anything, how would you say you changed such that your game is impacted this way?
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On February 26 2015 06:24 yamato77 wrote:From Nomination: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote:All right, so here are my thoughts: 1) On VE: My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that. But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE. 2) In response to Mr. Cheesecake: On February 07 2013 04:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:==SNIP== SnarfsBeen playing super neutral so far and non confrontational. Example: On February 06 2013 14:38 Snarfs wrote:
I could point out that it looks like one or both of you are purposefully being stubborn to try to draw reactions out of scum, possibly some sort of trap, but I don't know either of you well enough to give you that much credit. If you CAN do something, then you do it. This post serves no purpose other than to illustrate that either Oats or Mocsta could be stubborn for "possibly" some sort of trap, but then says he doesn't have enough information. I was just saying what was on my mind. I was hoping by adding the "but" part of things someone else who knew these players would chime in. There are a lot of new faces here for me, and I apologize for not making it more clear that I was looking for some input from someone else. Either way, the point I was getting across was that it was not scummy that they were arguing like that. On February 06 2013 16:22 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Mocsta I'm intrigued by your posts regarding the nomination phase. However I'm going to suggest/request that you save it for AFTER the dawn phase of D2 so that scum aren't given instructions on how you're going to view nominees they put up. It's going to be clear enough after D2 because we're going to have to lynch into their choices - but if we can go all of D1 without speculating on who and why scum will send up D2 I think that's going to be a net gain for town. I disagree. On February 06 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote:
The choices scum have for nomination will be based on the status quo of the ODD days; so it is paramount to consider ODD day play for EVEN day nomination. Having said that, I am going to hold off further strategy talk due to: fuck all people online. Need some others to contribute. @SnarfWhat do you make of VE wanting to bury all nomination mechanic talk till the nominations are released? I think it's a null tell. Town would do it if they wanted to shift the focus off of WIFOM. Scum would do it if they thought it was in town's best interests to be talking about the setup. I've personally never cared for too much setup speculation as most of my scum hunting success has come from observing what they actually do, not guessing at what they should be doing. Another null tell. I was just answering the question that was asked. On February 06 2013 14:34 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 14:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hey Snarfs,
Do you have any conclusions about the 'discussion' between me and Mocsta relating to our alignments/ Not really being swayed either way. Looks like standard day 1 banter. The only real stance he had on someone is VE, but the only justification is for his "disappearing act". Snarfs has had plenty of time to justify his vote, but all I see is "lol people were shouting in thread you weren't there must be scum". Apart from that, the only thing he's done is talk about WIFOM crap. Snarfs plz do something instead of trying to be all blendy and stuff, k? ==SNIP== Please read my first point and if this comment still stands feel free to rephrase it or ask again. 3) On Mocsta: It looks like most of the votes on Mocsta are based on meta (correct me if I'm wrong, please: Oats, yamato, JX). Now, from the case that yamato makes, my biggest issue is that the tone between NMM XXXV (the referenced scum game) and this game is quite different. In the referenced game, he is quite unabrasive. He is questioning people but he's not actually showing any emotion, as in this game. Compare:
I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy.
BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid".
I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt.
When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute.
You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention.
I ask that you please think about the above.
vs.
Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph.
You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else.
I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia.
I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town,
I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker
I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier.
Quote 1 sounds all nice and blendy in. Quote 2 is.. not. This meta argument is not convincing enough to sway me to change my vote. lolol it's the dude's formula.
C'mon man, you don't get to call me bad over and over and then post the quotes and call it a "formula" without walking me through it like I'm five.
Which is to say I still don't follow. 
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FWIW I do think yamato is probably town. Wave is still the only person I'm gonna lynch until somebody says why he isn't mafia. I am about to go requote my case so people can refute it
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On February 26 2015 04:45 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town.
On February 26 2015 05:44 Eden1892 wrote:
Here we are just over 2 hours out from the lynch and Wave, after spending the better half of the last 24 hours on a woe-is-me I'm-so-lost pity party, is content just to fling stupid one-liner shit instead of trying to find mafia. How are we not lynching this guy?
(EDITOR'S NOTE 2h3m to lynch: Still not trying to figure anything out.)
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On February 26 2015 06:42 Probulous wrote:
Man things have changed then. Seems way too easy for scum to just pull out some half-arsed town reads and then sheep them on a mislynch. Hey let's just abdicate responsibility for our vote shall we. Though you would probably have to defend your town reads if it was a mislynch, but that is way easier than scum-hunting.
Other guys is this really acceptable these days?
It is, but when you're evaluating it you have to be careful about the extent to which the person doing it identified their townreads. I have a pretty big problem with Wave doing it this game when he hasn't exactly been vocal about those townreads this game. The only one I can explicitly identify from filter is yamato and only because I was loud enough about them to make him come out and say it.
As a counterexample, in Imperial Mafia (should be still on the 1st page), sicklucker sheeped his townreads onto batsnacks d1 (bats flipped town). I questioned him extensively during n1 to figure out his alignment because he had said some erratic things before and after the lynch that made me suspicious. He identified four townreads before and after the lynch, and after the lynch he named them. I went back and looked and he did clearly call them town and didn't retract. I concluded (rightfully) that he was town, because he had named his reads beforehand, and the likelihood of mafia lucking into four previously-identified townreads all combining on the same player is low.
As noted, Wave hasn't really done this, to my knowledge. There's yamato after I pushed him, but that's it afaik. I'll go look to make sure I'm not mistaken but from memory that's it
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Looking further:
- He called Node town because of something he couldn't remember and find for us. Before he voted Snarfs he had never called Node a townread.
- No read on Tormented.
- Damdred I forgot about, he did come around to Damdred being town.
So I mean, that's two, and they were on at the same time. Actually that kinda seems legit...
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Somebody PLEASE engage my case I keep posting. I want someone who's pretty sure Wave is town to knock it down. I kinda think the sheeping bit might be okay but I'm still not satisfied with the other stuff mentioned.
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EPT
