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Rainbows frankly I don't think you can nail Koshi with the buddying argument cause we were kinda hoping to not roll opposite alignments this game.
I buddied him back even when being suspicious of him so you can't only apply that argument to him but also to me. Just consider it something that would have happened in some way regardless of our alignments.
You already mentioned the post where he talks about kush, robik and somebody else I think and imho that is more concerning about Koshi who I remember as more tryhard as town.
He's usually quick to recognize me as scum if I deviate from my town standard so during the whole Palmar vs. Me thingy I would have expected him to either acknowledge Palmar's arguments as bad or at least try harder to figure me out instead of trying to get me to talk about other things and staying on the sidelines.
It's a bit of a subjective feel read, but if you compare his filter with this game you will notice that he also starts with a jokey phase but becomes curious about the stuff that's going on rather quickly.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447645-normal-ass-normal-game?user=Koshi&view=all
Tbh I would like to have more stuff going on about Palmar and his new read on Koshi. Will he deliver such a case as he did on me?
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Rainbows do you think Palmar is asking the right questions for somebody who just voted the same guy you find scummy?
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Well, whatever, you're bleeding town and to me those questions just looked like a waste of time.
On June 28 2014 00:05 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:58 Rainbows wrote:On June 27 2014 23:53 Palmar wrote:
With your main point gone, Rainbows, how much of your case still stands? I still have no idea how koshi feels about the case other than it's 'pretty ok', I feel like the case would have an effect on his read on Vivax which is also an 'I dnu' for him. If the case is 'pretty good', then shouldn't koshi lean scum on vivax? Possibly, but are you then saying the main point of your case wasn't important to the case at all, and showing it as invalid has no effect on your conclusion?
This just feels like he wants to force you into losing the drive behind your koshi read, and yet we don't know a thing about why he read him as scum.
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Palmar, are you telling me you made an awful case on purpose? Can't say it's not believable, but if that's your legit town strat rethink it fast cause it can lead to mislynches when there is a sufficient amount of bad townies following it. Mass > class for newbies.
And yes, I agree that Koshi is scummy. I have yet to see the strong desire to win in his play, the inquisitiveness etc.
I might be willing to unvote you if you provide more insight into what your plan was with that case and if you generally comment on more stuff. The Robik "slip" and more importantly how some people reacted to it.
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Huge summary of own thoughts but the whole Robik situation is so wifomy that I think I'll give it low weight. Such plays are terrible plays that mostly just cause confusion but I'll try to reach some conclusions from it nontheless. Spoilered so you can read it if you are really bored and value my 2c.
I think kush and sinani are town, cause their reactions were similar to mine and cause kush is giving me some town feelz with more recent posts. I don't see anything wrong with sinani backpedaling from his vote cause I would have done the same.
Exo should be a lynch candidate for today. In no way I see that unlurking in that situation with lack of followup as townie.
With Cava I'm finding it hard to believe that his first vote of that situation wasn't serious.
I don't see the assertiveness and tryharding I would expect from town Koshi, but I'm reluctant to put it on either side of lazy or scummy and it's a quite subjective thing.
Oh and Robik. If scum knows you're town they also know that there was something wrong in that post of yours, which means they would be less prone to fall for it, which doesn't mean they wouldn't take advantage of it if they had the chance (see exo).
+ Show Spoiler +THe thing with Robik's shitty play there is that if he's town, scum knows they don't have to do anything until a sufficient amount of townies decides to lynch him, on the other hand it's also a safe place for a vote for scummers who weren't active to begin with.
If he's scum, they will shit their pants unless it was planned, leading to some overreaction following backpedaling when they realize it's not actually as bad as it looks.
As summary of the situation, I would say kush's and sinani's reactions were the most similar to mine. I wasn't sure if it was serious until I read the part where Robik wonders if he should keep trying. In retrospect yes, it was unlikely it was a real slip since he also openly said he was fishing for roles in the same post, but I fell for it too (mostly cause of what Robik wrote afterwards) and only later embraced the fact it was probably on purpose when the waters calmed down.
I see Rainbow's reaction as ok given his high activity during the time and the fact he was scrutinizing Robik when that happened.
What I don't see as analogous to mine are Exo's and Cava's reactions. Exo didn't post anything of substance up until that point and it puzzles me how Koshi reads that as town when the first time a guy contributes is when there is a seemingly easy vote popping up, Koshi puzzles me in general and I don't get the townzie feelzies I should:
Koshi didn't chime into that situation at all at a time when he was seemingly in the thread and that is not a good sign. When he chimed in he was completely unimpressed. The only time when I would be so unimpressed of such a play from Robik is when I knew it wasn't something to be taken seriously in the first place, is when I know Robik is town, for example.
Koshi is a tryhard town player and he doesn't like open questions, he lacks the same seriousness in this game, he more silently than loudly endorsed Palmar's bad case on me and when that alarms Palmar as well, should he indeed be town, then it should alarm you too.
As for Cava, I see him dropping the vote with a "omfg Robik" remark, then being silent until he comes back saying that Koshi is town. What follows is a kind of forced casual and tas a jokey interaction with Robik where Robik is dead serious and Cava dodges it by claiming his vote was "to bother him", which tbh didn't look much like that when he wrote "omfg Robik". Could see this coming from scum who sees the opportunity but then seeing everyone else letting off decides to follow the trend instead of pushing somebody for that of whom they know the alignment anyway.
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The situation is he claimed scum and formed reads off it (that seem to be the polar opposite to mine but I don't think he's scum)
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Looks like Palmar isn't very interested into the game or into solving it.
His vote on Koshi was laughable and his votes now are laughable and unexplained. He openly admits to writing to shit cases on me and then doesn't want to cooperate for the better.
Meanwhile, he has most games under his belt in this game.
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Today I'd probably lynch between Exo, Poofter, Cava, mderg. Palmar not today probably cause he admitted his case was awful and that puts some people who agreed with it into worse positions, namely Poofter and Koshi who I think are scummy.
Exo cause the only time he found it worth to post something it was when a guy scumclaimed, and he was pronto on the spot to do so which tells me he was lurking.
Koshi I would lynch for a mentioned variety of reasons. But I'm willing to give him a 1-day buddy bonus, not today and I wanna reconsider if I'm wrong on him.
Poofter cause his perspective strongly diverges from my townread's perspectives (kush and Rain) and cause his reason for me being scummy is that I ask kush why he doesn't vote Palmar. Koshi himself called me out for this and I replied to it asking what the fuck is scummy about confronting other people if their conclusions differ from mine.
Overall he fails to see how in that situation where I was gloriously debating Palmar I had the Koshi background noise trying to divert my attention, talk about his townreads and then criticizing me for confronting kush with our different Palmar opinions I developed a distrust of both Palmar and Koshi.
Since that game where I hard defended him D1 as scum Cava has been scumreading me D1 every time so I don't put much weight into that but his reaction to Robik's claim was unusual. At first he looked concerned and later he didn't give a fuck and started trolling Robik.
mderg is kinda suspicious for the way he occasionally pops in. I know him to be not the most active but usually as townie, then occasionally he provided longish insight posts that some people found scummy for some reason. However this is probably my weakest suspect for now.
So, I'd say I'd lynch Poofter or Exo if I had to pick one now.
Robik since you seem to know this guy well do you think that this Panks is a solid lynch?
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Let's pile up a bit and see what Exo does.
##Unvote
##Vote Exo
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Mderg I'm curious though why you didn't talk about Koshi or Cava yet. Sure, Exo shines by inactivity on top of his reaction but even then it would be just 1 of 3 scum if we're right. Don't you have a read on those two already?
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On June 28 2014 19:25 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 19:17 Vivax wrote:
Mderg I'm curious though why you didn't talk about Koshi or Cava yet. Sure, Exo shines by inactivity on top of his reaction but even then it would be just 1 of 3 scum if we're right. Don't you have a read on those two already? I have a hard time reading koshi. His reaction to Palmar´s case on you is strange but I don´t get the scummy vibes from him. I also don´t think his non reaction to Robik´s supposed scumslip is scummy. So I don´t really know what to think of him. Cav is a bit suspicious for 2 things, wanting to lynch between you and Palmar and not explaining his Robik vote/not unvoting immediately. Both are kinda suspicious but I could imagine him doing that as town, so I don´t think he should be lynched day 1.
So now that you changed your mind about sinani which two people would you lynch aside from Exo if you had the choice.
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Oh and your opinion on TehPoofter would be nice too, almost forgot to ask about the guy.
Sorry if I'm annoying you with the questions but it's kind of hard to find hard opinions on most players in your filter so it would be nice if you could communicate such a thing to the whole thread if you have it, thanks.
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Cav is a bit suspicious for 2 things, wanting to lynch between you and Palmar and not explaining his Robik vote/not unvoting immediately. Both are kinda suspicious but I could imagine him doing that as town, so I don´t think he should be lynched day 1.
I don´t see anything wrong with his play. The only thing I don´t like is his read on you and having a different read on someone isn´t really alignment indicative.
And why is Cav suspicious for his scumread on me and Palmar but Poofter isn't?
I have a really hard time following if you really find that a valid argument for somebody being scum or not cause you seem to use it both ways.
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You're focusing a bit too much on keeping your opinions about these guys in balance between scummy and not by finding arguments you don't seem very convinced of yourself.
Could display you're not very confident about which tells you use, but could also display you have a hard time deciding how to communicate your read of people that might or might not be your buddies.
Let's take TeHPoofter, both Kush and Rain both kinda shat on what he was saying about me. Your opinion mirrors what happened there but at the same time doesn't lean out of the window too much.
With Cava it's pretty much the same except that Kush and Rain both read him as scum.
When I ask you about two people you would lynch outside of Exo Cav is in there but Poofter isn't.
Kush and Rain both push Cav but not Poofter.
I have this feeling you're adjusting your play to Kush and Rain cause they both push Cava. You call him scummy (for an additional reason to what they said: His read on me) too but leave a caveat.
Poofter you also seem to dislike for his read on me but you feel comfortable not calling him scummy. Kush and Rain didn't call him scum either.
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Koshi help me figure out mderg and yourself and provide some insights into your thoughts on him.
Gooby pls
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Sinani I know you're here and lurking hardcore, why could OO lead to something when it clearly has led you to nothing so far?
In general, why aren't you doing jack at the moment? You don't look like somebody who is trying to find a grip in this sea of unknown. Are you interested into this game at all?
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It's also time for some action cause I found a scum:
##shoot: mderg
Watch him flip red and shit bricks
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Anyone who finds the flaw in his latest posts before HF sees the shot gets townie points.
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EPT
