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On December 02 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes that is indeed really weird. But if he got 50 KP or something why would he lie about it? Or he's mafia and he doesn't want to claim his role and claimed VT and didn't think through that other VT claims actually have some sort of power Mocsta is looking kinda not-good to me already.
I would not look into his claim too much atm.
Let's assume he is mafia:
1) In case he is hiding his role and claiming vanilla:
- If he somehow gets role-copped he is screwed
- If anyone ever sees him visiting someone, let it be a power or sending in night kill, he is screwed, he can't even fakeclaim in having sent in some arbitary or real power
2) In case he is telling truth about being vanilla but lying about his ability:
- If anyone ever sees him visiting someone, let it be a power or sending in night kill, he is screwed, he can't even fakeclaim in having sent in some arbitary or real power
In either case he is screwed. Also later on in the game, assuming he is alive, power uses and stuff will become "confirmed" (when people start claiming). If there is some ability that is not accounted and other people's power uses can be tracked down he is screwed.
So.. If he did in fact fakeclaim something about his role he can only do possible harm for himself. 
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I can talk more about Mocsta later on, after BttB is finished.
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I would propose that anyone with "moving people on the playerlist" ability does not use them without discussing it publicly first.
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On December 02 2013 21:25 marvellosity wrote:
By the way, rayn, I do basically agree with you that it isn't really possible to have a proper read on VE from N0 - but I do also think that MZ is the type of player who would think that he could. If that makes sense.
Yeah that's what i meant before i tried to go to sleep in my last post. I reread MZ's posts and his argument with me and came into conclusion he was being reasonable and not scummy.
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Yeah Rean is weird. Early on i thought he was town but since then i have started having second doubts based on what Oats said about him (i thought this was his second game for some reason) and what you just said marv and what sandroba asked him earlier.
I would hope sandroba does not lose interest in this game if he is town. His end of D0 was pretty good imo.
marv what do you think of BC and LSB. At least LSB should be super aware of what's good and what's bad in PYP games but it does not feel like he is trying to work for town's good. Also i think the same about the couple of BC's posts i remember.
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The thing is with the inventor in the game and all roles that fuck with DT-checks the checks are now 100% legit. :p
Barring the Godfather obviously, but i doubt any scum picked it because it does serve no purpose. If any townie for some reason picked it i think they should claim it asap.
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EBWOP:
all roles that fuck with DT-checks gone..
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On December 02 2013 21:58 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The thing is with the inventor in the game and all roles that fuck with DT-checks the checks are now 100% legit. :p
Barring the Godfather obviously, but i doubt any scum picked it because it does serve no purpose. If any townie for some reason picked it i think they should claim it asap. You do realize every role still has a second ability that can fuck with alignments? Chances might be low but possible.
I'd say the chances are near 0%. Based on my role i'd say the second abilities are most likely to be close to the first one. Or at least somewhat similar.
The thing is we can assume the list check will be most likely correct. Noone is gonna be able to say "but maybe i got framed" or at least that will be HIGHLY unlike it's true, even with scum of course trying to do something like that.
Main point is all checks are EXTREMELY likely to be100% legit and therefore you as inventor should invent investigative items imo. Because cops are OP anyways, at least when they got totally legit checks.
You know, there is a reason why i wanted to ban the roles i wanted banned. I even crumbed what role i will pick at the start of the game assuming i won't get on top of the list and get inventor. I told VE "i swear i saw a lightning rod in the role list" and with my second power this just became a hella lot better! ^_^
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On December 02 2013 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
My 2nd ability is nothing like my first ability, that's a terrible stretch.
What I/Koshi posted seems essentially correct to me.
Hmm okay. Anyways it does not change the fact that we have reduced the possibilities of fucking with possible checks to pretty low amount.
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On December 02 2013 22:08 marvellosity wrote:
Indeed. Checks will be nice. But my point was that mafia choosing gf isn't really particularly unlikely, especially from a low draft spot.
I do not think anyone from the upper half of the draft would pick GF based on scum banning all inv-roles.
You might be right about the lower picks, but then again, in case something implies there is a GF we know to which pool of people to look into.
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Well that was quite a burst. :p
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On December 02 2013 22:21 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 22:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 02 2013 22:08 marvellosity wrote:
Indeed. Checks will be nice. But my point was that mafia choosing gf isn't really particularly unlikely, especially from a low draft spot. I do not think anyone from the upper half of the draft would pick GF based on scum banning all inv-roles. You might be right about the lower picks, but then again, in case something implies there is a GF we know to which pool of people to look into. Wait. Scum didn't ban Viktor. Then they decide to not pick number 2. Silly gooses. Really strange imho.
Assuming you are town maybe they thought they can get rid of you early on.
Basically being on top spots puts you under more pressure in terms of "you have a good role, why are you still alive" and "what did you do with your role". In other words it's easier for scum to fuck up if they are top in picking order, far more likely to be somewhere in the middle because you are naturally under less pressure as you have by assumption "worse role". Best thing for scum is to pick combos that work well together, that does not necessarily mean the most individually strongest roles.
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I think it's far more beneficial for town to know what roles are in game for sure (vanillas claim what they picked) than to possibly try to catch some scum fakeclaiming something later on. I think vanillas should claim what they tried to pick.
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Out of the 1 pickers there will be at least 3 townies. With rayn claiming to pick 1,1
Mocsta [1][5]
supersoft [1][30]
Oatsmaster [1][1] Cho'Gath
raynpelikoneet [1][1] Shen
I think at least this group has "justified" their number picks reasonably:
- I claimed i will pick 1,1 ( i know Mocsta said before the game he will do that aswell - but i am stubborn ^^)
- Mocsta claimed he'll pick 1,1 (i don't think him picking 5 as second number means anything alignmentwise), and afaik he was not here for the most of D0.
- Oats was using Oats-logic when he told why he picked 1,1.
- supersoft said he misunderstood how the draft order is assigned and i believe him.
So based on pure number-analysis you can't tell anything about our alignments, other than for those reasons i lean town on supersoft and Oats in their picks. But nothing points towards anyone being scum.
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Actually Mocsta why did you change your second number to 5 from original 1?
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Ugh, i hate second doubts..
supersoft, you have played in at least one PYP game before. How can you possibly misunderstand how the draft & picking numbers work?
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Yeah if basic list checks are banned Sandroba's idea sounds good.
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I think Mig said he was sick so i would not read too much into his absence at least yet.
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supersoft do you have anything to add/say about cases on jcarl & gtrsrs?
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EPT
