I would be more certain Rayn is scum if he posted more. I am quite concerned because in other games I see him lurking and he turns out to be scum, although I know he can also spam as scum. But he's never a lurker town in any completed games so far.

It's not like Rayn tot not be the ones deciding things for the thread. His posts alone are good, however.

I have a null read.

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 12:49 GMT

#2830

VE, you, and Ray are 100% town in my eyes, with WoS being 90% scum with the extreme caveat that if FT is town and Vayne scum he might be then scum. WoS isn't certain yet as some of his actions have been anti-town and not justified, and I'm only staved off on that by the fact townies can be dumb.

FT is town and I'm slightly concerned you are voting him over Palmar despite having a better read on Palmar. I assume it's because you're following WoS and VE who you think are town?

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 12:49 GMT

#2831

Woops WoS is 90% town

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 12:52 GMT

#2833

Yeah, want to join the wagon of justice?

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 12:52 GMT

#2834

And way to ignore Koshi in his time of need

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 12:59 GMT

#2838

On October 04 2013 21:54 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why is it extreme?

Because I have presented very logically why WoS's arguments that FT are scum are flawed and he refuses to engage me. Furthermore, he had Vayne as a scum read yet refuses to even consider voting Vayne for some reason and I got the impression that he would not vote Vayne short of Vayne claiming scum in thread.

Koshi, you say that even if FT is town we should get rid of him and policy ban him in all games. But doesn't the same hold true for Vayne, and even more so since usually he contributes far more then he has? Look at his filter and tell me contributions about people that he pushes, not just night actions. They don't exist. Town Vayne at least has that.

Furthermore on the basis of a policy lynch Vayne is good enough for his "I don't try to find scum, just not to get lynched" philosophy which is inherently counterproductive.

Also if you believe in voting FT due to your town reads, and you now have a town read on me and should on Ray, then why not vote Vayne who I think I've logically presented is probably scum.

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 13:00 GMT

#2839

On October 04 2013 13:18 Pandain wrote:

Show nested quote +

Here are the reasons I think are the strongest:

Role speculation
Weak votes on Grack and me/Palmar which he never followed up on
Non-existent contribution

Here are reasons I think can be considered as indicative

Weak weak vote on FT despite considering Palmar before and a weak non-existent leak to FT
If he does play like this as town, we can't let this sort of play be tolerated as it's exactly like mafia play.

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 13:01 GMT

#2840

This isn't just town vayne lurking while still giving feedback; it's scum vayne lurking while appearing to give feedback which is useless.

Shit votes which aren't like him and no pushing, which again contradicts that he's trying to find scum if he won't even push his three scum reads.

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 13:14 GMT

#2843

What do you mean. He's active but not contributing which is the worst. No actual reads on people, weak vote on FT today. Like he mainly defends himself or speculates might actions.

If your going to make the argument that as long as he's active we will never lynch him then we would never lynch any good mafia player. Vayne has rated his own abilities very highly as scum at a 9.

I would say that yes he's not anti town but he is certainly scum, and there is enough of a difference in this game from his town games to justify it.

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 13:19 GMT

#2847

To qualify the characteristic I characterize as scum:
Inherent want to avoid attention: Found by Vayne not taking strong stances against people. Didn't push any unconventional reads he had.

I also fully agree with VE. Palmar you have literally done jack shit and its day 3.

+ Show Spoiler +

while VA has done no shit

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 13:20 GMT

#2848

Then what would ever make you think VA is scum Koshi because the only thing I see is if he went completely afk which he's not going to do

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 13:21 GMT

#2849

He hasn't contributed in 8 pages of filter I can not ignore that fact or justify his weak reads( weak because he doesn't push) when he has clearly had the thread and HAS those opinions

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 15:18 GMT

#2873

The fundamental problem is that you refuse to accept the possibility that FT isn't scum. There is no connection to him and SnB. He also isn't lurking, he's simply not posting. Yes scum can do that but it's less likely.

How often do townies actually mega lurk? Very rarely and rarely do they stop posting after saying they would post more because that's suspicious. Scum are actually rarely the lurkiest of the lurks.

That's why towns are losing lately we focus too much on post count and too little on what is said. I would rather lung S0lstice then FT for instance

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 15:21 GMT

#2876

I'm essence if FT flips scum you are lucky

Pandain

United States12984 Posts

October 04 2013 15:22 GMT

#2877

He's a bad vote and I can't believe anyone considers otherwise

Pandain

United States12984 Posts