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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato what would you have expected Hapa to do if not going after debears? It's just a shit read. I don't expect him to make a shit post like that and act "pro-town" by telling the triumvirate of me/oats/Marv to stop shitting up the thread and not comment on any of us. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 02:18 Sn0_Man wrote: Well yam, you sure spent a lot of time writing up some seriously inconclusive stuff on Marv/Hapa. I think it's quite clear that I'm suspicious of both of them. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
RE: Marvellosity/Hapahauli On August 30 2013 06:37 marvellosity wrote: yamato we'll see, his big post on you/me was full of logic fail (hapa can read marv, hapa is reading marv differently than me, hapa is suspicious), but in a way it's egotistical enough to come from town. if he doesn't do much else he's gonna look worse super fast. On August 29 2013 19:24 Hapahauli wrote: Why would I want to do that? I'm actually leaning town on marv because he seems legitimately impatient/offended at the people attacking him. And not in a scum-marv "holier than thou" way. This post is Hapa's read on Marv. It's also entirely truthful in Hapa's assessment of scum Marv's play. We've talked about this before on skype many times, and he's said that this is how he "catches" scum Marv. What I disagree with is his conclusion, that this game is somehow NOT indicative of this scum-Marv attitude. On August 29 2013 18:44 marvellosity wrote: Back to marv calling yamato out for being bad who is simultaneously telling town they don't know how to play day 1 (you don't catch me doing this) Not holier-than-thou, eh? I beg to differ. Like I said, Hapa is either not reading closely enough (never seen town Hapa do this) or has already decided Marv's alignment (town Hapa wouldn't do this either). My post wasn't "fail-logic". I know what I'm talking about. As a follow up to this read, Hapa posts this: On August 30 2013 04:58 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato 1Marv sounds very bitchy to me. In fact, it sounds as if his emotions are a bit out of control when responding to things. 2When marv is scum, he says things that people want to hear, and doesn't antagonize the vocal town population. It sounds like you two got into a fight, and your ego's are preventing both of you from backing down from each other. 1 Bitchy isn't somewhat of a holier-than-thou way of acting? If all you do is complain about the play of others, doesn't that imply that you put yourself on a pedestal above them? 2 Doesn't this sort of contradict your earlier assessment of his scum play? And it doesn't seem like he's agreeing, for the most part, with the most vocal/influential players in the game (yourself, rayn to an extent)? Notably, he's largely avoided interacting with me about my reads. He didn't even respond to my post until you asked him to. Doesn't that seem a bit off? Also, on the topic of debears, you said this: Really? I haven't gone after someone early on in the other 70 games I've played with you? It's not so much that you're going after someone (in fact I expect you to do that), it's that you picked someone already under some pressure (debears) and the post you made about him was... lackluster. For reference: On August 29 2013 19:09 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv, Yamato, Oats, and Rayn Play nice. Between the four of you, there is enormous thread-shitting potential, and how town does in this game is going to be determined by how well everyone can get along together. If you are town, stop with the antagonism. Going around and burning every bridge you can in this game is not how Day 1 is played. ##Vote Debears Of all the people in the thread so far, Debears' push on Sciberia bothers me the most. I really don't understand the suspicions on scib all that much, and he's firmly null in my mind. The bolded is completely random and unsubstantiated. Reminds me of his scum-game is such a cop-out read, much less when it's unexplained to everyone else in the thread. So according to this, debears doesn't care whether Scib is dumb town or scum. He mentions both, then uses it as a justification to vote. That's pretty darrrrrn scummy. This post is bad OVERALL, not just in its suspicion of debears. I've already commented on that. But specifically, why are debears' suspicions of Scib so hard to understand if you only have him as null? And did you read his scum game YANMM (that debears was in)? He started out in a similar fashion to this game with policy talk and a general "pro-town" style. It's not unsubstantiated if you know the context. But you didn't bother to ask, did you? Plus, when the fuck do you say "darrrrrrn scummy" when talking about mafia? Why is debears voting for Scib somehow scummy when deebs is plainly stating the scum motivations he sees? Post reeks of bullshit, Hapahauli. Notably, it's also your first post of the game, and I KNOW you have a hard time getting going as scum. That's why I was suspicious of you in the first place, and your Marv read is just another red flag. RE: Debears Deebs is someone who played when I started. Like I said, he also played in YANMM as SK with scib, so I don't see anything wrong with how he approached sciberbia in the early game. It's something I noticed as well, but didn't put as much stock into. Debears is notorious for tunneling early D1 and getting reads off that, so I'm totally fine with his play thus far in the game and wouldn't worry about him unless he becomes far less active. RE: Scib On August 29 2013 08:21 sciberbia wrote: I doubt it.
I do feel there is most likely at least one third party, due to this line from the OP In YANMM he made a setup-focused post like this one as his first post and it rang some alarms but I, in my noob days, ignored it because of how bad people generally were in my NMM games. To see it again this game is somewhat disturbing, but like I said, it's not damning. On August 29 2013 11:39 sciberbia wrote: If I were to offer you 1 million dollars if you could correctly identify 1 scum, who would your guess be and why? On August 29 2013 16:21 sciberbia wrote: 3) And yamato for being in the thread but avoiding engaging in discussion. Also I don't understand why marv is his strongest scumread for being useless when there is a whole handful of players who are as of yet equally useless. I'd appreciate it if sylencia/tofu/yamato/anyone would chime in with agree/disagree on these three. These consecutive posts feel weird. I did indeed respond to him, he just either didn't get the hint (I was suspicious of Marv) or was downright ignoring my posts and threw shit at me for nothing. I even explained my read on Marv at some point, as he noted in this post, yet he never attempted to disagree with me, he just shat on my read and said I wasn't "engaging in the discussion" (read: contributing to the spam-fest). No really that important either, just plain odd. Other than that, most of his filter is arguing with Rayn/Debears which is not what I'd expect from a scum scib that I remember to have been rather quiet. He's also obviously affected emotionally by the posts of others at times and seems interested in actually finding mafia. He posts some weird things, but I generally don't like to get caught up in semantics with people who play this game that I don't know that well. If there's anyone else worth talking about, ask. I'll broaden my horizons because Hapa/Marv (even if I am right) can't be the only scum. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:22 Hapahauli wrote: Way to like completely ignore 90% of my filter Yamato. The rest of your filter is not as interesting or alignment-indicative. I could talk about how you thinking I'm scum is BS, but this isn't an OMGUS case here. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:24 Hapahauli wrote: If you're going to make a read on me based off of the first 13 pages of gameplay in a 29 page game, I'm not impressed. If I'm wrong, why are your early posts so trash? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:26 marvellosity wrote: why is yamato pretending i only bitch as mafia or something? it's a total mystery to me. I didn't respond to your post, yamato, because everyone else had already told you it was shit and I didn't feel like it needed adding to at the time. What are you doing? I'm more confident in my Hapa read unless you didn't notice. I'm not "pretending" about anything. I know you bitch as town. Usually you aren't that way toward me when you're town (at least in the latest few games), however, and I took note of it this game. You can respond to what I've said if you think it's shit. Others actually agree with me. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:29 marvellosity wrote: Hapa has seemed fine to me, the only thing I noticed so far is that he's seemed somewhat more snippy than usual, which is why I asked him about how he felt about the game. Not entirely sure what I make of it but meh Bugs me that yamato is suspicious of Hapa for being able to read me better than yamato can. It's just dumb on so many levels Are you even reading my posts? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:31 Hapahauli wrote: Isn't this the 3rd game in a row where you think my early game posts are bad (and scummy) because I tend to force things early on? I make bad cases early on all the time. In fact almost every single one of my town games recently starts with a terribly bad D1 case that draws some flak on me. In a somewhat twisted way, I kind of enjoy the flak though, because it gets me thinking and involved in the game. idk man, this was something special The question is, do I feel like you've improved since the post on deebs? idk, will reread. Your targets of hopeless/syl aren't real encouraging at first look, though, because they are easy to fake-case as either alignment | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:31 marvellosity wrote: Maybe you don't slap a random vote on me and then lecture others on how to play day 1 in other games, hmm? Obviously wasn't random, and has nothing to do with what we're talking about right now. You will respond to me or I'll just assume you're actually mafia and I'm right. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:33 marvellosity wrote: yes, and I'm interpreting how they actually sound and boil down to. You're suspicious of Hapa for his read on me despite readily admitting yourself Hapa would be able to read me better than you or anyone else. "red flags" and shit, and that hapa "would make this read as mafia" when you're not actually capable of knowing whether he would say the same about me as town. Basically everything you say is totally egocentric and related to your perceptions that don't really make much sense to me First of all, that's not the ONLY reason I'm suspicious of Hapa, so you aren't actually reading. Second of all, I've played games with the both of you. It IS weird that the both of you seem so ready to trust the other this early in the game when you both have been wrong about the other before. It's especially true that Hapa is basically contradicting himself or not reading your posts very closely as per the analysis I quoted that HE posted. And of course its egocentric and related to my own perceptions. Do you play mafia or just read a thread? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:36 marvellosity wrote: Maybe I'm not explaining it so well 1) in your original long post you say hapa would best be able to catch me and knows me best 2) hapa gives a tone/attitude read on me 3) you disagree with the read and decide you know better 4) therefore hapa is suspicious, despite 1) all these things don't go together at all, really. 1) I quote how Hapa has TOLD ME (therefor giving me the knowledge he has) about your meta. 2) I quote Hapa's read 3) I show obvious examples of the very scum attitude-read he posted 4) therefor, Hapa isn't actually considering your real alignment | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:35 Hapahauli wrote: That's basically half the reason you're suspicious of me no? You know I've played a ton of games with marv. While I can articulate my methods of reading him in one way or another, the bottom-line is that a majority of me reading marv is completely on gut. There are just certain posts by him that I get strong town/scum vibes from, mostly because we have such a history together. In this game, there's just something about the way he's responding to the pressure here that makes me feel he's town. So back to the "holier than thou" thing with scum-marv, he tends to put himself above all the arguments, and either use it as an OMGUS or completely dismiss them at hand. In this game, he's getting emotionally caught up in them, which I consider a town-tell. Is he really, though? It seems like he wants to use these back-and-forth exchanges more as an avenue to shit on my play and my reads than to actually get anything useful out of it. If I am right about him, there is plenty of motivation for scum-Marv to want to discredit me when town-Marv is usually more cooperative even when I am tunneling him, in the recent past. Why the change this game in his response, and his overall attitude as compared to his recent play? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:48 marvellosity wrote: Thing is, yamato, I'm going to attack posts with bad logic in, and that's not even alignment-indicative for me. I do that kinda shit just because I enjoy being right. It's only bad logic if you somehow think I'm supposed to assume that Hapa's read is coming from an honest place this game. | ||
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