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On September 23 2013 09:13 marvellosity wrote:
We're not voting a zero-poster.
And yes, Koshi, I'm working slowly :/ I'm trying to get myself into the mindset of town-Tofu for that post I talked about. What geript said about FT being kinda crazy (I wouldn't really say bad) with how he views/approaches things sometimes is weighing on me a bit.
I'm nowhere near done reading, but I still think LM is a decent lynch; I know people are reading his martyring as a towntell, but usually when townies martyr they stick around to vent their martyryness (aw yea) on people, whereas LM just peaced out. Say you're a newbie townie who feels out of his depth a little in a large game full of regulars and loud posters - fine, maybe it's a little scary, but is it really as desperate as LM is coming across? Is the situation that bad? ugh
I would be more inclined to look with disfavour upon FT's exit from the thread than LM's.
The whole thing with the situation not being that bad....as a newbie if you have people suspecting you and/or voting you at any time it's scary/looks bad.
You're right about him not choosing to stick around and continuing to try to work it out, but again I think FT is much worse in that regard, and I know that FT is beyond newbie at this point.
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On September 23 2013 09:16 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:15 marvellosity wrote:
geript, there's no need to be that harsh. Srsly man. Call me biased, but I'm not going to go all soft and nice on someone who called me an inbred retard.
LOL
Yeah honestly.....I'm not even sure why he did that....
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On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence
Agreed.
About FT:
It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing.
On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different.
Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game.
He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them.
Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this:
On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.
On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved.
On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game. You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you. If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner.
^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right.
On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit.
This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example.
Then we have his exit:
On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier? I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58.
On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow.
This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is.
I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there.
Thoughts, Marv?
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On September 23 2013 09:39 marvellosity wrote:By the way, Mocsta made me look at Chairman again, although I don't really have much to say about Mocsta's case itself (it could just be bad town). What makes me think Ray might flip mafia is: Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 10:24 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 22 2013 10:08 Stutters695 wrote:On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Sorry I haven't been around since the start since I was pretty busy, but I'm definitely going to dedicate a few hours today and tomorrow doing my best to contribute.
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Last game I learned that it's quite difficult to get strong reads on people during the day. Most my reads at the start were quite off. A lot of town said scummy things, and a lot of scum were quite pro town. However during the final hour when thing started being messy, there were strong reads everywhere. So this game I will try to focus on making things very difficult for scum during the last hour. If a town ends up being lynched day 1, I want as much information to come out of it as possible.
So feel free to ask me anything and I will try to be as transparent as possible. If I see something fishy, I will definitely try to flush you out as well. How exactly do you plan on making things harder for scum only in the last hour? Everything from how people vote, when people vote, and vote switches are able to give strong reads. Like for example, near the end if the votes are leading 6 on person A and 5 on person B, and my vote is currently on person A, and my vote is currently on A. If I switch my vote from A to B, and then in response someone switches their vote from B to A, and then A flips town, that really sets off a red flag for that guy. It also gives a really good target for whoever is cop, because it has the potential to reveal two scum. There are probably a lot of ways we can force scum to make bigger pushes to save each other with some creativity. I only have one vote, but on the first day, I will use that vote to scumhunt and get as much information as possible instead of keeping my vote on the scummiest player early on and leaving it there. It really doesn't feel like Ray has done this at all (I mean obviously he hasn't with his vote) - he hasn't tried to gain information from people either. Town will usually at least try to follow through with their plan. Look at this post: Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 16:24 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 22 2013 15:41 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 14:41 Chairman Ray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 14:28 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Sorry I haven't been around since the start since I was pretty busy, but I'm definitely going to dedicate a few hours today and tomorrow doing my best to contribute.
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Last game I learned that it's quite difficult to get strong reads on people during the day. Most my reads at the start were quite off. A lot of town said scummy things, and a lot of scum were quite pro town. However during the final hour when thing started being messy, there were strong reads everywhere. So this game I will try to focus on making things very difficult for scum during the last hour. If a town ends up being lynched day 1, I want as much information to come out of it as possible.
So feel free to ask me anything and I will try to be as transparent as possible. If I see something fishy, I will definitely try to flush you out as well. You're conflicting me btw. What I want to know is: Why are you still trying to play "trap the scum" after it backfired so badly in your last game? I thought we coached this out of you? I'm not playing the scum trap like I did last game. I'm not withholding anything, posting fake reads, or doing anything that's not completely genuine. However I do believe that analyzing a mislynch post-mortem isn't that productive and there's a lot that each town player can accomplish during the last hour, so that in the event of a mislynch, we have the information we need to narrow scum possibilities down to as few people as possible, and also to give the cop more productive reads as well. I think it would be tragic for the person lynched to lead in votes by a huge margin without much of a struggle, and having him flip town. That would tell us nothing coming into the second day. Thats great and all, but, there hasn't been a flip to analyse, let alone a mislynch. Whose scummiest on your radar; and why? I have played past games with only a few of the players here. Here are my reads on then so far: Coagulation - He was town last time I played with him. Injected a lot of one liners to get discussion going, but never really participated in the discussions themselves. He's playing pretty similarly this game. Umasi - He was mafia last time I played with him. He was very active and capitalized the discussion from the start. Took a good degree of control over the town. He's a lot more mellow this game around. I filtered through posts, and the person who looks the scummiest to me right now is stutters. He's made only a few posts so far. Every post he's made is a poke at kush, but his very last post was questioning me on how I would try to play out the last hour to make things harder for scum. It seems that out of all these pages of posts, and all these players, he's only interested in getting people onto kush and learning my scum catching plan. That seems like a scum agenda to me. If it was you who asked me that question, I wouldn't mind it since you've been asking everyone questions about a lot of things. However stutters very selectively asking me that question instead of the countless other things that have been going on in this thread really screams scum to me. He's asked who's scummiest, and gives two generic townreads. Now, Stutters is pinging his scumdar, fine. But is he using his vote as promised? Or, further, is he trying to get more information out of Stutters to better his read? What information is Ray pulling from this game like he said he planned to on Day 1? He never mentions Stutters again.
It all reads to me like newbie with grand plans but no real idea as to how voting/vote analysis works in a game like this and maybe ditched his grand plans halfway through.
The people who think Ray is scum----do you REALLY think he is as calculating as to give off newbie vibes in the odd ways he has just to throw people off? There are much 'cleaner' ways to look newbie.
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Look at the people voting for Sentinel though....ugh
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On September 23 2013 09:44 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence Agreed. About FT: It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing. On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different. Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game. He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them. Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this: On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved. On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game. You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you. If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner. ^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right. On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example. Then we have his exit: On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier? I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58. On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow. This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is. I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there. Thoughts, Marv? Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it. just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it.
My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them.
If I'm 55/45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM.
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On September 23 2013 09:50 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Look at the people voting for Sentinel though....ugh I don't necessarily dislike any of them.
Umasi I don't mind, but Pandain and Coag?
How long ago were those votes dumped and forgotten?
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On September 23 2013 09:52 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:50 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 09:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Look at the people voting for Sentinel though....ugh I don't necessarily dislike any of them. Umasi I don't mind, but Pandain and Coag? How long ago were those votes dumped and forgotten?
Hmm actually not that long ago.
I guess it's because I don't remember what Pandain has even done that game and Coag is Coag to me.
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On September 23 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Wave, give me the town-Ray case if you please?
I don't like this marv.
I'm not confident enough to try and push FT as THE lynch (and as such eliminate Ray from your list) today. It just appears to me as the best of the current options I'm aware of. For all I know you could be ready to sheep anything I say and blame me later and I don't know if I'm ok with that yet. Your 'slowgame' in conjunction with this request worries me.
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On September 23 2013 09:55 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:51 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:44 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence Agreed. About FT: It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing. On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different. Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game. He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them. Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this: On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved. On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT. I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game. You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you. If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner. ^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right. On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example. Then we have his exit: On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier? I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58. On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow. This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is. I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there. Thoughts, Marv? Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it. just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it. My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them. If I'm 55/ 45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM. So im null. and LM/CR are town. OK. Whats the read on VE? + Show Spoiler +Dude, are you still butthurt I creamed you in your first newbie? Since then, you always complain you can't read me. jeez.
P.S. its pretty simple. If im suspicious of everyone, Im usually town. If im suspicous of one or two ppl and then relentlessly tunnel until proven wrong.. then im usually scum.. it really is that simple
Is this an Aussie thing to tell people about how they can or can't read you based on met in the current game you're playing with them?
lol Mocsta I'm not butthurt, I've honestly just never been able to read you.
I did mean to have a look at VE but I got sidetracked.
The heuristic usually goes lazy VE = scum VE----is that what we're dealing with here?
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On September 23 2013 09:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Wave, give me the town-Ray case if you please? I don't like this marv. I'm not confident enough to try and push FT as THE lynch (and as such eliminate Ray from your list) today. It just appears to me as the best of the current options I'm aware of. For all I know you could be ready to sheep anything I say and blame me later and I don't know if I'm ok with that yet. Your 'slowgame' in conjunction with this request worries me. You can direct me back to this post where I'm telling you that you can lynch me if I do that later in the game. I just want your view expressed lucidly so I can judge it against what's become a mafia-read on Ray for me.
Heh it's kinda funny...usually our little conversations go the way they do because I'm leading things and am scum/3P but now I'm on the other side and I'm scurrrred. 
I want to look into VE first; I'll get back to Ray if I have time since I'm pretty sure I won't be voting him (Ray) today.
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On September 23 2013 10:21 marvellosity wrote:This is annoying though. Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:
I still disagree with your analysis on my first post. You may have an extensive experience, but that doesn't mean you are correct. In this case, you definitely do have a misread on me, but I hope that we can resolve that now instead of post game. At the same time, I made a lot of rookie mistakes that caused you to have such a strong scumread on me. I would like to win this game so if there's any way that I could make myself easier to read for you and everyone else here, feel free to say it. If I could improve now, that may mean the difference between a win and a loss. Otherwise I'll probably be seeking your help postgame.
Chairman Ray, what does newbie lenience mean to you?
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On September 23 2013 10:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:25 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 23 2013 07:00 yamato77 wrote:
Chairman Ray, not Rayn.
Yes, I think I can get him lynched. Since we still have a few hours left, I would like to discuss the reads you have one me right now so I don't get voted on impulse very last second. I don't buy your reasoning on why I should be the one lynched. I think that anyone can make any sort of opening post, whether they are scum or town. So what if there's one mafia in one of your previous games that made a terrible first post? In your history of mafia, has there never been a town that made a terrible first post? Also, what is your opinion on my reads so far? I appreciate that you commented on my LM read, and hopefully I managed to answer your question. I hope that maybe we could discuss things a bit more rather than you just shrugging off my reads as poor attempts of scumhunting. Right now I think there are far better people to lynch, like koshi. I just f5ed the thread, and he still hasn't made any mention on why he's voting me. I respect you for voting me, and following up with a lot of good analysis and valid questions, but all koshi did was vote me in the voting thread, and never even mentioned it here. What's that's supposed to accomplish? It doesn't put any more pressure on me, it doesn't give any information, or anything. He's probably hoping that it would go unnoticed. I'm starting to think that he's scum and he's joining the bandwagon on me. Stuff like this is also bugging me. Read what I've bolded. The natural reaction to the accusation against him on his first post is "well i'm town, so clearly townies make first posts like that". Instead he's trying to argue that scum or town could make it, just making it a generic non-alignment indicative possibility, rather than proclaiming his towniness as a clear reason townies could make his opening post. It's not the only time he talks about reads on him in this way either
I wish I could PM you right now.
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On September 23 2013 10:32 justanothertownie wrote:Ok, this is where I stand: LoneMeow: I can see him being discouraged town. The only thing I really don't like is how he just left after voting himself. He is definitely not dumb and knows that this is horrible. But I don't see how it really makes sense as scum either.
Ray:
I don't get this guy. His posting is extremely unintuitive but he obviously posted like this in his last game, too. I am struggling to form an opinion on him.
FirmTofu: Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:10 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. So, what you are saying is that you accused me falsely based on some really bad meta read. and this whole time it was, in fact, a ploy in order to read me better? is that it? No, I accused you on a legitimate meta read that I "flavored" with some inconsistencies about your prior defensive behavior. This looks so unbelievable to me. There are 2 possibilities (I don't buy his explanation): (1) He is town and to proud to admit he made a mistake. (2) He is scum trying to cover up inconsistencies. He had this weird discussion with DP and he walked us through him reading the thread for a while (a good way to seem active and invested without necessarily doing too much of value). Then he just disappeared. If I was in his shoes and my time was limited I would try to catch up to the thread asap and not comment on things (without presenting some sort of critical information) that happened ages ago and I especially wouldn't try to discuss those comments with people instead of reading the rest of the thread. Of those 3 people I like this lynch the most and I have to vote someone now because I have to sleep.
##Vote: FirmTofu
This actually phrases it really well. I want to talk to Ray but until then marv, put it this way: are you expecting Ray to play a certain way?
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Well fuck.
Haven't finished with VE.
I guess voting FT for now.
##Vote: Firmtofu
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Nah he's town imoimo
Bad fucking play, but town.
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Ugh I really don't like this Ray lynch.
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On September 23 2013 10:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:But why would he regress?
I was referring to Stutters by bad fucking play with his last post.
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On September 23 2013 10:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 10:44 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 10:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:But why would he regress? I was referring to Stutters by bad fucking play with his last post. Oh whoops. Congrats on arbiter
Aw shit.
I want my Archon back 
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On September 23 2013 10:48 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 10:34 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2013 16:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
I filtered through posts, and the person who looks the scummiest to me right now is stutters. He's made only a few posts so far. Every post he's made is a poke at kush, but his very last post was questioning me on how I would try to play out the last hour to make things harder for scum. It seems that out of all these pages of posts, and all these players, he's only interested in getting people onto kush and learning my scum catching plan. That seems like a scum agenda to me. If it was you who asked me that question, I wouldn't mind it since you've been asking everyone questions about a lot of things. However stutters very selectively asking me that question instead of the countless other things that have been going on in this thread really screams scum to me. He never votes this or revisits this. ##Vote: Chairman RayOverall there's just too much stuff that's added up against him. Am I totally confident? No, but he's my best bet for mafia right now. I actually did want to follow up on it, but given that he's not falling for the easy lynch train on me, the little time I have is focused on better targets.
Come on. Is this what scum does as he's about to go down?
This is consistent with what people were saying about Ray setting up dumb traps.
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EPT
