|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:35 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 05:39 yamato77 wrote:I was feeling better about your alignment until this. Choosing to do nothing else but sheep thread sentiment onto my own wagon at a crucial time like this is actually fairly conclusive evidence that you are mafia. I see no indication before this that you actually thought I was scum, or thought anyone was scum, for that matter. The "reason" that you have voted for me is actually such a constructed piece of bullshit that I find it hilarious. You're not voting for any reason except for the fact that I voted for Chairman Ray when it should be apparent that I found the reasoning obvious? Laughably horrid. For the record, let me explain why Chairman Ray's post makes him 100% mafia. The one valuable thing I learned from Sicilian was that if there's one thing to be on the lookout for, it is terrible opening posts, especially late in the day. Now, all of you may have the impression from him that he's a noon, but it honestly makes no difference. Anyone who struggles so mightily to post anything of value that late in the day when they enter the thread is almost certainly mafia. To be fair, you could also damn him for his recent sheep vote if LoneMeow just as that wagon was taking off. On September 23 2013 04:31 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 23 2013 04:14 LoneMeow wrote:
I can't get a scum read on anyone but Umasi, and I'm notoriously biased against him so that's almost guaranteed to be wrong. I'll vote him anyway since I have to vote someone. Not sure I'll wake up for the deadline but I'll try.
Chairman Ray is lynchbait like in my last newbie, so probably town. IMHO his "last hour shenigans" plan is terrible, though.
##Vote: Umasi
Here for a while if you want to ask me something. Why would you say that voting Umasi is a terrible idea, yet vote him anyways? It seems to me like you are scum trying to get achieve a town mislynch D1, but unable to muster up any strong cases on anybody. So instead of posting a weak case against them and have everyone call you out on it, you beat us to the punch by telling us your case is poor to begin with. If you are really town, then a town who intentionally makes a bad vote is still hurting town. ##Vote: LoneMeow I guarantee that Chairman Ray is having a difficult time coming up with legitimately suspicious things to comment on, so his gameplan is to sheep the easiest lynch out there. At that time, LM fit the profile because votes were piling on him after he martyred. He is the most legitimately likely mafia candidate in the thread, and my vote will continue to stay on him. I need to ask you how you came to the conclusion that a terrible opening post makes someone 100% mafia. If the reason you believe I am mafia is that in a previous game, a mafia made a terrible opening post and you believe these two things have to be correlated, then I think you are wrong because you are basing your argument off a single sample, and you still haven't explained your logic on why terrible first posts must mean mafia. The last thing I want is for this game to end before you realize that anybody can make any sort of opening post, and you can't throw a 100% mafia read on them for it. I want to win this game right here, right now. In order to do that, I need everyone's trust, and that includes you. As for my vote on LM, I was not sheeping him. In my opening post, I explicitly said that I will not be sheeping as it is very unproductive, and I'm not going to discredit myself by doing what I said I wouldn't do. The reason I voted LM is that he showed a lot of vulnerability, and putting a lot of pressure on him can give us some good information. At the very least, I don't want him to vote Umasi or himself for stupid reasons. As of now, he still has his vote on himself. It is unclear exactly why, and I want to get to the bottom of it. I can assure you that I'm not going to be keeping this vote here for the rest of D1. My vote will be a lot more productive than that. I guess by saying this, it sort of relieves whatever pressure I had on LM, but right now I think getting you trust is a bit more important.
Honestly, you're writing a lot of words, but almost none of those words have been "I think X is scum because Y".
It's a simple formula, and town players generally follow it to some degree. But even in this post, you admit that your vote on LM is actually meaningless. That's why you're mafia. The opening post thing is a strong tell, and your follow-up is also sufficiently lackluster as to warrant serious suspicion.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:40 ObviousOne wrote:
I'm basically rallying for Sentinel btw. He played more effectively when he was in 4 games at a time during Smurf.
Convince me on Sentinel, if you won't listen to me about Ray.
|
11589 Posts
@Wave
I'm here if there's anything you want to talk about.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:44 Mattchew wrote:
Yamato what do you think of stutters
In games past I would simply townread him for how he's posted here, but apparently he finally rolled scum and could actually post, so there's no real good way to discern his alignment aside from extensively reading into his scum game and trying to pick up on specific tells that he wouldn't do as town (difficult to do, given his rather lynchbait town reputation).
Basically, not a great lynch. His push on Kush is sad, though.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:47 Chairman Ray wrote:Ok, I just looked in the voting thread, I saw that Koshi voted me. He didn't post it here, and he didn't post any reasoning or analysis on why I would be scum. If you have any reason to believe I am scum, then tell me why. At the very least post your vote here instead of hoping it gets unnoticed. Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 06:35 Koshi wrote:
I am planning to go to bed somewhat soonish. Shouldn't we consolodate on a target? 5 votes would be cool. Excuse me if I don't understand mafia as deeply as everyone else does, but isn't consolidating on a target the very least thing that town wants to do? If there is a leading number of votes on one person, that tells us almost nothing coming into day 2. For these two reasons, I think that koshi is definitely my biggest scumread right now.
1) He said he was sheeping me in voting you.
2) Consolidation forces scum to take hard-line stances on the wagons. Just as you don't necessarily want a pile of votes on one player (as you note here), you also don't want votes spread all across many players.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:53 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 06:42 yamato77 wrote:
@Wave
I'm here if there's anything you want to talk about. Ohai. Trying to get back in here in terms of town sentiment since I haven't been able to post in a lot of hours, but I will be around until deadline. Just to start off a conversation, top two to lynch from you, and why? (short form, I am aware of your recent large posts) I have some stuff I want to ask you but I am attempting to not derail current topics because it seems people are not always interested in the things I want to talk about.
Ray, for his bad opening post and generally poor attempts at subsequent scumhunting.
Mocsta, for his bullshit attitude toward the game, flame-baiting, and general negative interaction with the thread, which I associate with scum Mocsta.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 06:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 06:52 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:45 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:42 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:40 ObviousOne wrote:
I'm basically rallying for Sentinel btw. He played more effectively when he was in 4 games at a time during Smurf. 5* In which game was that? Smurf? I posted the bare minimum to keep up and piggybacked on other people's reads And yet you looked town! I can't say that here. That's like job #1, right? Bullshit I looked town. I tunneled Eccleston, showed up only when someone knew I was missing, tried my hardest not to look suspicious, and the only reason I stayed alive as long as I did was because I defended myself decently well and nobody could pin anything on me. That's also what I did in Roulette which I played concurrently IIRC, with Vayne swapped in for Eccleston Lol fuck Maybe you looked town because I knew you were town (as PT2.0). Let me get to my computer, do some reading. If not you, then who? Is it you vs Koshi and some Chairman Ray campaigners? Well there's yamato but that's out of the question for you, right? And then there's LoneMeow bandwagon, but I want to see LM defend himself/post reads before making judgment.
If you seriously think I am mafia, you need to explain yourself better than you have so far.
|
11589 Posts
Chairman Ray, not Rayn.
Yes, I think I can get him lynched.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:08 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 06:56 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 06:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:52 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:45 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:42 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:40 ObviousOne wrote:
I'm basically rallying for Sentinel btw. He played more effectively when he was in 4 games at a time during Smurf. 5* In which game was that? Smurf? I posted the bare minimum to keep up and piggybacked on other people's reads And yet you looked town! I can't say that here. That's like job #1, right? Bullshit I looked town. I tunneled Eccleston, showed up only when someone knew I was missing, tried my hardest not to look suspicious, and the only reason I stayed alive as long as I did was because I defended myself decently well and nobody could pin anything on me. That's also what I did in Roulette which I played concurrently IIRC, with Vayne swapped in for Eccleston Lol fuck Maybe you looked town because I knew you were town (as PT2.0). Let me get to my computer, do some reading. If not you, then who? Is it you vs Koshi and some Chairman Ray campaigners? Well there's yamato but that's out of the question for you, right? And then there's LoneMeow bandwagon, but I want to see LM defend himself/post reads before making judgment. If you seriously think I am mafia, you need to explain yourself better than you have so far. What I don't understand is how you easily rule out the possibility that Ray does truly have no idea what's going on, and the difficulty with coming up with arguments other than sheeping the easiest lynch is a symptom of that problem. Yes, it would be a scumread in a more experienced player, but looking at Ray's profile history he's come out of a newbie game recently. I don't get why you don't pursue your other reads more.
I think if you read his posts, he has a clear understanding of what's happening in the game.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:00 yamato77 wrote:
Chairman Ray, not Rayn.
Yes, I think I can get him lynched. Oh, flerp. That makes a lot more sense. Yeah, you probably can get him lynched. I'm not sold on him being scum>bad town though. I'd probably lean towards him being bad town but I also have a bad track record of giving people the 'bad town' benefit of the doubt when they may not deserve it. I feel more strongly about Lonemeow being 'bad town' than Ray and Ray himself seems to be comfortable with his LM vote.... Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 05:47 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 05:46 Mattchew wrote:
Yamato i voted you to see how angry you would get... I dont sense the fury in that post I'm intentionally not tilting this game. It's easier to do in forum mafia than in Voice. If you OMGUS and yell at your accusers, you become DP. What I really want to talk about is DP v FT because I'm still pretty bothered by many of DP's reactions this game. I am aware you're currently still leaning town on him but I wonder if you know what a mafia DP is capable of? I have never played in a game where DP was mafia.
Generally even bad town don't continually make posts that effectively say nothing.
I'm not leaning town on DP. I'm firmly null on him. My official stance is "not going to pursue any further because accusing him doesn't help his alignment become much clearer."
|
11589 Posts
@Marv
What do you think of my updated reads? Please comment on them when you come across them.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:16 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:15 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 07:00 yamato77 wrote:
Chairman Ray, not Rayn.
Yes, I think I can get him lynched. Oh, flerp. That makes a lot more sense. Yeah, you probably can get him lynched. I'm not sold on him being scum>bad town though. I'd probably lean towards him being bad town but I also have a bad track record of giving people the 'bad town' benefit of the doubt when they may not deserve it. I feel more strongly about Lonemeow being 'bad town' than Ray and Ray himself seems to be comfortable with his LM vote.... On September 23 2013 05:47 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 05:46 Mattchew wrote:
Yamato i voted you to see how angry you would get... I dont sense the fury in that post I'm intentionally not tilting this game. It's easier to do in forum mafia than in Voice. If you OMGUS and yell at your accusers, you become DP. What I really want to talk about is DP v FT because I'm still pretty bothered by many of DP's reactions this game. I am aware you're currently still leaning town on him but I wonder if you know what a mafia DP is capable of? I have never played in a game where DP was mafia. Generally even bad town don't continually make posts that effectively say nothing. I'm not leaning town on DP. I'm firmly null on him. My official stance is "not going to pursue any further because accusing him doesn't help his alignment become much clearer." At what point will his alignment become clearer? I'm not a fan of 'wait a few days and if they're still alive, lynch' because we're already going to have quite a few of those in this game. Have you played with a mafia DP before?
I have, twice.
In Personality 2, all he did was bitch about people pressuring him to contribute as a replacement and coast along until endgame.
In Catch 22, he made shitty pushes (namely on me for accusing him) and continually claimed there was no way to catch him because he plays town and scum exactly the same.
Sound similar? Hence my initial suspicion.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:11 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:08 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:56 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 06:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:52 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:45 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:42 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:40 ObviousOne wrote:
I'm basically rallying for Sentinel btw. He played more effectively when he was in 4 games at a time during Smurf. 5* In which game was that? Smurf? I posted the bare minimum to keep up and piggybacked on other people's reads And yet you looked town! I can't say that here. That's like job #1, right? Bullshit I looked town. I tunneled Eccleston, showed up only when someone knew I was missing, tried my hardest not to look suspicious, and the only reason I stayed alive as long as I did was because I defended myself decently well and nobody could pin anything on me. That's also what I did in Roulette which I played concurrently IIRC, with Vayne swapped in for Eccleston Lol fuck Maybe you looked town because I knew you were town (as PT2.0). Let me get to my computer, do some reading. If not you, then who? Is it you vs Koshi and some Chairman Ray campaigners? Well there's yamato but that's out of the question for you, right? And then there's LoneMeow bandwagon, but I want to see LM defend himself/post reads before making judgment. If you seriously think I am mafia, you need to explain yourself better than you have so far. What I don't understand is how you easily rule out the possibility that Ray does truly have no idea what's going on, and the difficulty with coming up with arguments other than sheeping the easiest lynch is a symptom of that problem. Yes, it would be a scumread in a more experienced player, but looking at Ray's profile history he's come out of a newbie game recently. I don't get why you don't pursue your other reads more. I think if you read his posts, he has a clear understanding of what's happening in the game. I just read his entire filter and he looks exactly like a guy who's playing his second (second? can't be more than fourth since he was previously in a newbie, someone confirm this) game. I don't see what would make him scummy.
"I think he's noob/bad town" is a bad excuse for ignoring what is ultimately quite scummy play.
Explain how his fluff posts and weak scumreads are more likely to come from noob town than noob scum. The latter is a real option, mind you, and the one that I tend to gravitate toward.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:25 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:00 yamato77 wrote:
Chairman Ray, not Rayn.
Yes, I think I can get him lynched. Since we still have a few hours left, I would like to discuss the reads you have one me right now so I don't get voted on impulse very last second. I don't buy your reasoning on why I should be the one lynched. I think that anyone can make any sort of opening post, whether they are scum or town. So what if there's one mafia in one of your previous games that made a terrible first post? In your history of mafia, has there never been a town that made a terrible first post? Also, what is your opinion on my reads so far? I appreciate that you commented on my LM read, and hopefully I managed to answer your question. I hope that maybe we could discuss things a bit more rather than you just shrugging off my reads as poor attempts of scumhunting. Right now I think there are far better people to lynch, like koshi. I just f5ed the thread, and he still hasn't made any mention on why he's voting me. I respect you for voting me, and following up with a lot of good analysis and valid questions, but all koshi did was vote me in the voting thread, and never even mentioned it here. What's that's supposed to accomplish? It doesn't put any more pressure on me, it doesn't give any information, or anything. He's probably hoping that it would go unnoticed. I'm starting to think that he's scum and he's joining the bandwagon on me.
I explained that Koshi said he was sheeping me in voting you; this is not something that is extraordinary for town Koshi to do, in my opinion. If you think he's scum, what other reasoning would you put forward to justify this read, aside from that?
Town make bad posts, yes, but scum make posts like yours. It's not a singular game of experience that I draw from, it is from vast experience in 20+ mafia games of my own in addition to the wonderful analysis Ver gave of my own opening post as scum in Sicilian that made me rethink how I view starting posts.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:23 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 07:11 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:08 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:56 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 06:55 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:52 ObviousOne wrote:On September 23 2013 06:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On September 23 2013 06:45 ObviousOne wrote:
[quote]
And yet you looked town! I can't say that here.
That's like job #1, right? Bullshit I looked town. I tunneled Eccleston, showed up only when someone knew I was missing, tried my hardest not to look suspicious, and the only reason I stayed alive as long as I did was because I defended myself decently well and nobody could pin anything on me. That's also what I did in Roulette which I played concurrently IIRC, with Vayne swapped in for Eccleston Lol fuck Maybe you looked town because I knew you were town (as PT2.0). Let me get to my computer, do some reading. If not you, then who? Is it you vs Koshi and some Chairman Ray campaigners? Well there's yamato but that's out of the question for you, right? And then there's LoneMeow bandwagon, but I want to see LM defend himself/post reads before making judgment. If you seriously think I am mafia, you need to explain yourself better than you have so far. What I don't understand is how you easily rule out the possibility that Ray does truly have no idea what's going on, and the difficulty with coming up with arguments other than sheeping the easiest lynch is a symptom of that problem. Yes, it would be a scumread in a more experienced player, but looking at Ray's profile history he's come out of a newbie game recently. I don't get why you don't pursue your other reads more. I think if you read his posts, he has a clear understanding of what's happening in the game. I just read his entire filter and he looks exactly like a guy who's playing his second (second? can't be more than fourth since he was previously in a newbie, someone confirm this) game. I don't see what would make him scummy. "I think he's noob/bad town" is a bad excuse for ignoring what is ultimately quite scummy play. Explain how his fluff posts and weak scumreads are more likely to come from noob town than noob scum. The latter is a real option, mind you, and the one that I tend to gravitate toward. I don't think it's more likely to come from noob town, I'm saying he's neither town nor scum based on his current posting. You're not just gravitating towards the scum option, you're flat out blocking all other avenues by saying Ray's the most probable scum, and thus voting for him.
I'm not blocking anything out. If I was blocking other stuff out, why would I ask your opinion on it?
If you don't think he's town or scum either way, why is it so egregious that I actually have a read on him? Perhaps, in this case, I have drawn upon heuristics and knowledge that you have not, and thus, am capable of making a read that you are not. Does this make me mafia? No. I don't see why you think my read on Ray makes me scum. If that's the only justification you can put forward for voting me, you're in the same category as VE.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
yamato, have you checked out Ray's only other game? Apologies if you've done so and I missed it
No, but I see you think it's noteworthy. Which game is it?
|
11589 Posts
Not even a few posts in, I see him focusing on his scum reads and actually making sense.
It's also notable that his posting looks less constructed in that game, even when he's talking about policy. It still has some degree of polish, but it's not to the same degree.
Honestly, looking at that game and seeing him so easily talk about who he thinks is scum is only reinforcing my read. Maybe I'm biased by now, but it doesn't change my opinion much.
|
11589 Posts
If people don't feel good about lynching Ray, I'd be more than happy leading the gallows to Mocsta.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 07:30 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 07:25 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 23 2013 07:00 yamato77 wrote:
Chairman Ray, not Rayn.
Yes, I think I can get him lynched. Since we still have a few hours left, I would like to discuss the reads you have one me right now so I don't get voted on impulse very last second. I don't buy your reasoning on why I should be the one lynched. I think that anyone can make any sort of opening post, whether they are scum or town. So what if there's one mafia in one of your previous games that made a terrible first post? In your history of mafia, has there never been a town that made a terrible first post? Also, what is your opinion on my reads so far? I appreciate that you commented on my LM read, and hopefully I managed to answer your question. I hope that maybe we could discuss things a bit more rather than you just shrugging off my reads as poor attempts of scumhunting. Right now I think there are far better people to lynch, like koshi. I just f5ed the thread, and he still hasn't made any mention on why he's voting me. I respect you for voting me, and following up with a lot of good analysis and valid questions, but all koshi did was vote me in the voting thread, and never even mentioned it here. What's that's supposed to accomplish? It doesn't put any more pressure on me, it doesn't give any information, or anything. He's probably hoping that it would go unnoticed. I'm starting to think that he's scum and he's joining the bandwagon on me. I explained that Koshi said he was sheeping me in voting you; this is not something that is extraordinary for town Koshi to do, in my opinion. If you think he's scum, what other reasoning would you put forward to justify this read, aside from that? Town make bad posts, yes, but scum make posts like yours. It's not a singular game of experience that I draw from, it is from vast experience in 20+ mafia games of my own in addition to the wonderful analysis Ver gave of my own opening post as scum in Sicilian that made me rethink how I view starting posts. You have a lot of history with koshi, but this is my first time playing with him. With that being given, do you think my read on him was reasonable? Right now, I still believe koshi may be scum. I might be willing to accept that he just followed your vote in the first place, but he's active in this thread right now, I'm inviting him to give me some analysis on why he's voting me, and there still hasn't been anything yet. I still disagree with your analysis on my first post. You may have an extensive experience, but that doesn't mean you are correct. In this case, you definitely do have a misread on me, but I hope that we can resolve that now instead of post game. At the same time, I made a lot of rookie mistakes that caused you to have such a strong scumread on me. I would like to win this game so if there's any way that I could make myself easier to read for you and everyone else here, feel free to say it. If I could improve now, that may mean the difference between a win and a loss. Otherwise I'll probably be seeking your help postgame. Right now my radar is still on koshi despite you disagreeing with me. However if you are confident that he's town, then I could use some of your analysis as well on why he is, so I have a more educated vote. I still would like to hear from koshi on why he's voting me.
This is a reasonable position, we may yet work from here.
Koshi, do you have any other reason for voting Ray than because you think I am town? I am not infallible.
|
11589 Posts
On September 23 2013 07:54 ObviousOne wrote:
Talk to us about Mocsta.
I've re-read through Sentinel three times and I'm seeing the bigger picture here, gonna unvote him. He's at least talking and while his vote towards Yamato is weak, his previous votes are all fine for what they are. I also buy his response regarding the vote thing.
##unvote: [UoN]Sentinel
Read my posts about Mocsta. Do you agree or disagree with my evaluation of his play and its implications?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
