EPTGoT Mafia: Lords and Liars
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Sharrant
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There's been some talk of killing Kush. Kush and I have talked very little, but his attitude struck me as matching his town meta to a T. Obviously I can't quote the pm, but he openly admitted to being completely clueless about how teh game is operating/what had happened within our house during n0, while still having a big attitude about it. I'm conflicted on this, because on one hand in smurf I could easily tell he was town, and pretty much everyone else could. But on the other hand he still got mislynched at LyLo and did not contribue meaningfully to the game. I don't want him alive at LyLo again, but he is very likely town. I've been playing with Kush since my first game on TL, and I think I've gotten him right about 80% of the time. That said, I understand and even sympathize with wanting to kill him at this point. But I personally can't do so because I am relatively sure he's town, and town is town regardless of whether they're playing poorly or not. The only thing giving me any doubt is this: Does anyone know if Kush uses the term 'fag' or 'fags' at all? I'm not confident enough to name anyone as scum until I've read the thread a few more times. Most of the big incidents in the thread are cookie cutter from other games I've played. Rayne twisting words around was exactly what he did to me until we both figured each other out as town in the last game we played. Oatsmaster and Yamato's fight earlier was also cookie cutter from the last game I was in with them, however a few things stuck out to me as different about both of them in this case. I will be starting to read through their exchange again. Does anyone else have specific things they think I should read or that they want opinions on? | ||
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On August 10 2013 01:19 Oberyn wrote: Does this infer that you have indeed read the thread at least once? Yes. I have read the thread fully. On August 10 2013 01:21 Oatsmaster wrote: What exactly is kush's town meta Sharrant? Quite simply he would not so brazenly admit to a position of weakness/poor play while still having so much attitude/such a joking tone. He has never learned to emulate this as mafia. He has learned that he has obvious tells, and he has corrected many of those, but this is something that has been consistent in his play since the first game we played. He's still very uncomfortable about a few things, and this is one of them. As mentioned before, the only thing that seemed out of place is his use of the word fags. That's the only thing giving me even a moments consideration, as it's not something I particularly remember him saying before. | ||
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On August 10 2013 02:27 Oberyn wrote: I think town should strongly try to influence the Lord elections for day two. I've bolded my preferred Lords. Please post if you disagree with my assessment. House Tyrell: Kushm4sta johnnywup Sharrant Acrofales Is it terrible that I'm picking the guy with one post? kush is a martyr so I wouldn't consider him. johnny is suspicious to several players, although I haven't spent much time on him yet and I have a scum read on Acro. I wish we had one of Dandel's house nukes. House Greyjoy raynpelikoneet FirmTofu Nachomamma8 Risen I'm content with rayn staying as Lord based on activity. House Stark strongandbig Clarity_nl Oatsmaster Vivax This was a tough choice since most of these individuals are townish null. I'd like to see s&b's play today before making a final decision on this one. House Lannister iamperfection Xatalos Grackaroni Gumshoe Xatalos appears more town to me than iamp thus far. I don't like iamp's preferred house kp target and he hasn't done enough in the thread. House Baratheon Chromatically Koshi S0lstice Dandel Ion I would be pretty opposed to any of the other three at this point. Chrom has been pretty active in PMs. House Martell Oberyn jrkirby yamato77 Onegu I feel I've been the most active among my house and I know my own alignment. Talk to me about your scum read on Acrofales. I'm interested in this and it seems like a much more fruitful discussion than what has been going on for the last few pages. | ||
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On August 10 2013 02:41 Vivax wrote: I am seriously underwhelmed by Sharrant's entrance. The quantity seems fine, the quality sucks. All that talk to give an almost psychoanalytic townread on kush? Cool, now we know he calls people fags, what the fuck does that even have to do with anything? I'm actually interested into knowing Sharrant's read on Acrofales rather than having his question answered before he does that cause it rather looks like he's trying to steer discussion into a direction without giving his own opinion first. Not to mention that Oberyn already talked about Acrofales. Sharrant could simply look it up. Hey, Vivax, you're the perfect one to answer this. You actually hydra'ed with Kush. The question was whether Kush says 'fags' normally. Does he? You would know much better than I. My read on Acrofales is that he's seemed quite townie. Oberyn obviously has a different side that I don't get to see. On n0 Acrofales wanted to be leader, and I figured he would be the best candidate. I had no intention of running because I know my time is quite limited. Acrofales has been quite open in PMs, seems very concerned about making the right move, is always asking for advice and suggestions, and has been very active and engaged. All this while roleplaying AND the biggest kicker for him being town is that when there was an issue with his roleplaying, he typed out of character to clarify the situation. I think he's very likely a townie. | ||
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On August 10 2013 02:55 iamperfection wrote: sharrant i would like to do a little exercise with you. Do you accept? For you, always. What's up? | ||
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On August 10 2013 02:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant i wouls like to do a little exercise with you. It includes me using our house KP on you, unless you start telling who you think is mafia soon and please answer me. Are we going to do this again? When I have a scum read I'm confident enough in to share, you'll hear about. You can threaten all you want, but I don't care, you can't rush me. | ||
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Yes, I have read the thread. | ||
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On August 10 2013 03:03 iamperfection wrote: now over the course of any mafia game would you agree that certain topics become "major headlines" if you will. As in something that almost everyone takes a stance on or at least comments on said topic. Would you agree with this premiss? I agree. Things like Oats/Yamato this game, Rayne/Acro, things like that, yes. | ||
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On August 10 2013 03:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: It´s been over 36 hours into the game and you have (apparently?) been active in PM´s. I find it hard to believe you don´t have any scumreads, and you are only willing to discuss your town reads atm. But i´ll wait. When did i twist someone´s words in this game as you said in your post? My activity has been greatly misinterpreted by the thread. I spoke in PM's a bit on n0, but was unavailable up until this point. As such I only sent a few decent sized PM's to Acro, and spoke a little bit with my other house mates. I only was able to catch up completely on the thread today. | ||
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On August 10 2013 03:05 iamperfection wrote: well when you jump the gun like that you make a mockery of the exercise. Okay, pretend I didn't say that. Keep going. | ||
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On August 10 2013 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now that the experiment is apparently over, Sharrant, can you finally tell me where have i twisted anyone´s words in this game? Your conversation with Acrofales. At least at a glance it felt exactly like what happened when we played last. You saying Acrofales was going to use the house health check, seems very much like that. I don't think Acrofales has ever had any intention of using the house health check. Perhaps using "twisting" was the wrong word. I know the problem we had was a lot of misunderstandings. For this to come up in another game doesn't surprise me with anothe rplayer does not surprise me. | ||
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On August 10 2013 03:16 Oberyn wrote: In fact, I think you were the one he said that talked him out of it. Ah, gotcha. See, to me he just asked my opinions about it. I didn't realize he had been considering it before. Yes, that makes sense then. Apologies, Rayne. | ||
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Okay, I looked back through the PM's. I was wrong, he did state he originally wanted to use it on a house to check the HP values. I forgot about that because of how quickly he agreed that it was a bad idea. I just forgot, plain as that. | ||
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I think we should concentrate on where houses should be using their shots. We have four hours until we can no longer plan inter-house. Since Acrofales is not here at the moment, I will be suggesting that he fire at either Yamato or Nacho, with Nacho being the stronger recommendation. I think that 3 houses should be elected as shooters. And fire at three agreed upon targets. The remaining three houses will be assigned to each target, and if the target is not dead before day break, they should fire upon them. If the targets die, then they are free to pick their own targets. | ||
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On August 11 2013 14:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Why dont you tell us Sharrant? You'll know why as soon as Acro gets on. If you want to share with the non-lords after that, be my guest, any of you is welcome to. | ||
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In this game he's basically just disrupted conversation, but done so without helping the town. He's been shutting people down, and causing arguments to stifle discussion. There's been nothing useful in his play. He is mafia, guaranteed. Can you not see the difference in how he argued both games being on the receiving end of it both times? | ||
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I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush. After I brought up framing he suggested that Kush might be too high profile, and that I should check Koshi or Ace. I think both of those are fairly legitimate suggestions. It seems less likely that Acro is mafia because he was suggesting more people to check that are in positions where a check would be very good. An alternative is that Acro is mafia, and they have no framer like role, so he wanted to push me off a mafia Kush, but I find this unlikely. At the end of the day you're left with a red check on Yamato, someone relatively out of the spotlight and not a likely choice for framers. And as I stated, his argumentative nature in this game is quite different from how it is when he's arguing as a town member. | ||
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I think we can agree that waiting would have been the ideal move rather than outing me publicly. Outing me to the thread doesn't seem scum motivated to me though. Oats, you're chasing sub optimal play as if it were scum oriented play. Scum oriented play: pretend to have been gone after reading the pm, reveal it to the scum qt. Have yamato drop real wifom bombs before he was "caught" and have members of the scum team express suspicion of him in preparation for the reveal of the red check. Then tell the other lords. Acro's handling of the situation is bad if he is scum, and acceptable but sub optimal as town. At worst that he revealed is null, at best it's kind of townie. @koshi Why would you even ask that? You've also discounted all the possibilities of a vig that is not instant kill. What if he too only has one kp? What if he has 3? Why haven't you discussed that? Why assume he has anywhere around the 7ish we knew were required to kill gum shoe? | ||
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On August 12 2013 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote: No no Sharrant, the reason why I think its scummy that he outed you was that I felt that he didnt care about the check. Like Acro was thinking, "Ok, tell the thread yamato is scum, oh man, sharrant outed himself, oh well lets just mention that." Its difficult to explain :/ I think I understand what you're getting at. I'll reflect upon this. | ||
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On August 12 2013 23:34 Koshi wrote: @Sharrant A vig with a 1 KP shot? Or 3 KP shot? Like how stupid is that? A vig shoots people death, not hit them for 1 HP... I could see 3hp/5hp vig if the vig can shoot multiple times but then it is still stupid to shoot gumshoe unless for some reason you think gumshoe has 10 hp. While that doesn't make any sense at all because lords can only do 6 hp damage combined. Also that's not even the point. The point is that iamp says that it is MOST LIKELY a vig. While it is most likely it is scum in his house knowing gumshoe has 1 hp. but w.e. I drop it because everybody thinks iamp is town. Before knowing that all the houses kp combined could not kill a vt, I might have a greed with you. But I see no reason to discount say, a multi shot 3 or 4 kp vig. I think that would be a great role. Either work with trusted lords or kill some one every 2 or 3 cycles. And yes, iamp is easily the towniest person in the thread, look up a meta case against him from a previous game. He does have a very identifiable meta that distinguishes him as town. | ||
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@iamp I have a special task for you. In the likely event that I do not survive the night, I must ask you to call any town member who aimed kp at me a jib jub. I have the highest respect for your ability to call people names, and that is why I come straight to you with this request. @risen Your paranoia is unwarranted and kind of hilarious. This seems like something you could get worked up about as town though. However my highlight of your case is easily (paraphrasing here): "my first reason for wanting to lynch sharrant is the same reasoning I had for lynching that townie. But this time it's right!" If you want to believe I'm mafia, you have to A) assume I started putting pressure on my scum buddy in post number one. B) assume kush is mafia and I defended him to start the game. Or: B) 2. Assume that I (as mafia) hard defended an easy mislynch of kush who had basically just thrown away a game that town had won and that I wouldn't want to lynch him on that reason alone. C) assume I continued to bring up yamato twice when un pressured. D) fake claim a cop check on yamato E) tried to not tell the thread about the cop check. F) decided not to take the time to gain town cred by waving my dick in his face when he came back to the thread. I think that's all there is to say about that, unless someone has some questions | ||
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Like Johnny said, I'm not going to be active for a while. I should be phone posting in about 12 hours, and hopefully posting from my laptop in 14ish. On top of my one shot alignment check, I also had an HP check. I used it on Iamp thinking he had likely/would likely take damage. I was roleblocked. Not that that matters much given that he died last night. Someone had mentioned interest in lynching into my house. I'm not particularly interested in that right now. I have very strong town reads on both Acrofales and Johnnywup. With Kush his first post pm to me is enough to make me not want to lynch him today. I find that with him my initial read is correct, and any subsequent rethinking of his alignment (unless something very major happens) generally leads to the wrong conclusion about his alignment. That said, I have read Acro's case on Kush, and it does have some merit. I am uninterested in lynching Kush unless something major happens. Running late now: Vivax, SnB, Koshi, JrKirby/Mocsta are all persons of interest to me right now. Koshi has the strongest case in my eyes for being SK. Vivax never openly expressed his thoughts on Yamato (If I'm recalling correctly), but did so in PMs, this is suspicious to me. SnB has been such a non-factor that I feel he has a good chance of being scum. And JrKirby would have been my choice if not for Mocsta's replacement. Without the replacement he would be my for sure choice for lynch today, Actual analysis will come when I'm not late for important things. | ||
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@SnB I was very confident in my read on acro, but I'm not stupid. I used my claim to confirm we had the same thought process, we did. The lie was to cover my ass if he was mafia. Why wouldn't he shoot me? It's likely that mafia have some sort of framing mechanic in play. If he could guide me to a framed target either: A) I give a green check on a mafia and give him town cred and if he ever dies I likely get lynched immediately. No shot needed for my death and if I flip before the mafia he gets cred to last to lylo. B) I give a red check on a townie. He gets lynched. I get lynched. Town Just lost two lynches, and scum are free to shoot whoever they please. On top of that I have the ability to pm two other people. He has to assume I told them to lynch him if I was rb'ed or killed. (i didn't though, because if either of them were mafia it could get both of us killed if he's town and johnny or kush was scum. He would have had to gamble either way, but one is safer and has higher reward and that option is framing. | ||
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##Vote: Vivax I don't think I need to go too in depth with this, as it seems the majority of lords have come to the same conclusion. He hasn't been loud like I used to expect from him. Nor does he show off the skills he recently has proven he has, in the last two town games we played together he immediately and undeniably showed his townieness in a way that few can. There's none of that here. I'm just retyping my case on Koshi right now and adding in the new developments about him now. I will post it shortly. | ||
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On August 12 2013 22:51 Koshi wrote: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY LOW AFTER ALL LORDS SHOT HIM? Ok maybe not 1 hp. But it wasn't going to be 15 HP. wtfff? Like how do you even refuse to see that this doesn't make sense? And of couse nobody in the thread is paying attention to me when I am actually finding scum............ Typical. This is the post that caught my attention and made me really analyze Koshi. In this post he talks about how stupid it would be for a vigi to shoot gumshoe, but his reasoning is almost entirely based on health values. (Note: Some of this may read awkwardly, but it's the information we have now. While we know Iamp is not the vigi, he potentially could have been at the time) Now, as far as I know, no other house aside from Iamp's had claimed the use of a health check. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). Iamp could not have shared that information with anyone outside of his house during the night phase (unless he's mafia, but he's not). So there's only 2 possible people that could be a vigi AND know the health value (Iamp and the two house members that aren't gumshoe). At best, our vigi can know of one shot actually being fired at gumshoe (from being a lord himself) or he may have no actual confirmation of any shots being fired, but think it was likely. Or he may think it was entirely WIFOM and they fired at their own targets/someone else etc. This is combined with the fact that our vigi would only be able to guess at someone's total health based off his shot value, and the lord KP value. Koshi's comments all assume that the vigi has knowledge that gumshoe has 7 health. They all come with the assumption that the vigi knows this. They all come with the assumption that any blue role that can damage someone MUST be stronger than all six lords combined. Now, this is all post hoc reasoning. There's two main reasons I could see this come about: A) he has trouble seperating current knowledge from past knowledge, and lacks the ability to construct a proper narrative in his head. B) He knew about the health or had some thus far unexplained knowledge of KP values. That road leads to a likely SK or mafia. He also never offers a reason why mafia would kill gumshoe aside from just him having 1 hp. Him having one hp is bullshit. Complete bullshit. If gumshoe survived the night we would have been forced to lynch him, or use a partial night's KP on him. You'd have to assume very poor play from the mafia to have shot him. This looks very, very unlikely to be a mafia shot. What about a serial killer? It's possible. They could have tried to hide their kill like he mentioned he had done in a different game, seems quite reasonable. It's worth being wary of a vigi claim in the future because of this. What about an actual vigi? Also possible. Likely he's multishot with 4-5 kp, maybe even as low as 3. He would have claimed if he were single shot, or at least likely would have. It's also possible we have a JOAT, potentially even one weakened in some way, or a fun role. Fun role being something like: Sacrifice x HP for 2x KP. Or even one for one. That would explain a vigi that attacked him knowing he was weak, it would allow him to kill more people. Mafia killing gumshoe seems like the least likely to me, albeit that is somewhat subjective. But the fact that he goes on so long about the death (generally a sign that one is linked to the event), let's it dominate his focus down to only paying attention to people talking about the event around that time, and is using either post hoc reasoning OR has unexplained knowledge means it's quite possible he's mafia or SK. What else incriminates him from this? For starters, this big glaring hole in his logic. There's four people in the house. Two are dead. Both were townies. So that means either Grackaroni or Xatalos are guarnateed scum according to him. But he's never commented about this or that it through. Why not? He's made a bunch of posts about the incident, but never thought about how it would be related to the two people in the house? This makes me think that if he doesn't flip SK, that it is guaranteed one of Grack/Xatalos are scum because he didn't want to continue and incriminate one of his teammates. I don't see a townie thinking about this scenario, making 5 posts about it, having things play out as they have, and never revisiting his thoughts he fought so much about. He comes close, mentioning Iamp's death and possible vigi/leak, but then doesn't apparently think about how that effects the remaining house. If he's 99% sure there's scum out of the two people left (his words) why not look into them more? Because he just wanted something to talk about before, he wasn't thinking critically about it, that's why he ignored so many situations. Couple this with his jumping on my half-bandwagon that Risen tried to start, but then never realizing that even Risen thinks he was wrong. He hasn't shown any interest aside from saying "Sharrant is scum because of Risen's case". He hasn't looked at the responses, the analysis by other people, or even Risen's own current thoughts. I'm less sure about Koshi being the SK, I'd bet on him being scum though. He's the only person aside from Vivax I would lynch, and I'm not longer which one I'm more confident about being scum. Most of this started from him being SK, so some of it is a little awkward, and I'd cut it out but I think it's useful showing the thought process. The important part is the logic hole and his reaction to the case on me. | ||
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On August 17 2013 14:25 s0Lstice wrote: hey, why so useless with all that town cred you have? Fine. I'm too excited. I have a red check on Mocsta. You're welcome. | ||
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On August 17 2013 14:27 s0Lstice wrote: well this is gonna be a fun day it looks like. so you are claiming to be an actual detective. you also have the ability to PM two people outside of the normal house PMs. anything else I'm missing? Yeah, you could also read the thread sometime. The two people are the other people in my house. Seriously, even Risen had to print a retraction because of it. Get with the times. Yes, I'm a detective that alternates between alignment check (odd days) and hp check (even days). | ||
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On August 17 2013 14:31 Mocsta wrote: I think you are town; so Im going to believe the check is valid. I led the lynch on Vivax; why check me? I can't read your posts, and it makes it so I can never read you in a game. I found Kirby scummy, but I know I can't read you, so I used the check on you to simplify matters. | ||
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On August 17 2013 14:48 s0Lstice wrote: this is gonna be a long 48 hours Let's just pretend it's tomorrow. Who do you want to lynch now that Mocsta has died? | ||
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On August 17 2013 14:51 Mocsta wrote: I promise thats not me. What I am is this http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpbc3pWRCV1qf42pr.jpg I eat mother fuckn baby seals for breakfast... The most disapointing thing about Sharant, is that instead of qusetioning why I led the lynch on Vivax; he insta-votes and assumes theres no way to falsify a detective check. I get he can't read me; but its still disappointing. Already thought lots about it, that's why I didn't particularly mention you since you've replaced in. But let's see: You A)Replaced someone I found scummy B)Have a red check against you C)Are a player I can't read So yes, you totally could have been framed, but I find it very unlikely, and entirely worth the risk. | ||
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On August 17 2013 15:00 Mocsta wrote: Its OK man. Marv can't read me either when I replace in a game. Many did find jrkirby scummy; so i dont hold it against you either. Just note if you take the time to read his filter again.. did he actaully push a scummy agenda; especially now we have more flips for context.. or was he just a guy that was thinking otuside the status quo? Personally thats where I saw him.. but to each his own. If you're town, stick around and do your best for the town today and then we can trust your effort when you flip. | ||
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On August 17 2013 15:19 Onegu wrote: Yeah I had a heavy town read on jrkirby based on meta, and everything mocsta has done since comeing in the thread has led me to believe he was town. He was very early comeing into PMs saying vivax was scum and the main reason I took another look at vivax to decide to change my vote to him. Also why would you not check koshi? And why go against the lords and say you were ok to shoot johnny then not shoot him? I posted last night you were most likely cop, I doubt you have HP check powers though. And I believe you were roleblocked by vivax makeing you town, but who you checked I dont understand much. I told all the lords I would not shoot Johnny. I told every one that asked me, I would not shoot Johnny or Kush. Koshi is the obvious person for me to check, so he's the person I would expect to be framed. Besides, I wanted to lynch him without a red check on him because I think he's scum. I thought Kirby was scum, but Mocsta unreadable, so it made more sense to confirm my read of Kirby. | ||
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On August 17 2013 15:24 s0Lstice wrote: did you consider s&b? Yes. Clarity and I spent a long time talking about Vivax and SnB, and I spent a long time going around in circles about them. I eventually decided that Vivax was the scummier one, and SnB was likely town. SnB gave me strong town vibes in the beginning of the game. But I would likely lynch him if I end up on a day where there's not someone I have strong feelings about lynching. | ||
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Also, he seemed like the other big potential frame target to me. Koshi was the guy I recently wrote a case on. SnB was the other big attention getter that people were willing to vote. Both seemed like unsafe checks. | ||
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On August 17 2013 15:35 s0Lstice wrote: yea you got a point there for sure. alright time for bed, gonna sleep on this I'm considering him confirmed scum. This is why: Mocsta should have immediately asked me who I told I was checking him. He knows it's a PM game. He knows I revealed my first check to someone. If he were town he'd know that at this point it seems that the only reason he could possibly show up red is to be framed. So his first instinct should either be to deny the check (if he doesn't believe I'm town, but he says he does) or it should be to try and find out who could know so we could figure out if the framer guessed right, or knew the target before hand. | ||
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On August 17 2013 15:50 Onegu wrote: Or he thought he was miller, which is what I think he is a terrible target for frame, and even if you tell someone you lied about who you were going to check last time so whats it matter who you told this time as they cant believe who you said you would check. It's day 3, there's been no other cop claims, I don't see a miller being likely, to be honest. And the point is that he didn't even ask. He didn't ask if there was anyone who might have actually known that I could perform another check. | ||
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On August 18 2013 00:16 s0Lstice wrote: well this is very interesting.. i have a strong urge to kill sharrant Do tell. And I'm saying it again, I'm pretty sure Johnny is town. | ||
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When I'm happy with my reads I will post them all later tonight, but I think they need fine tuning as I think I'm off by at least one person. Don't waste the lynch on me, but I do need to die. I'm far too easy of a mislynch at this point, and scum will very likely not shoot me tonight because of the confusion today. According to DI I've been shot before, so hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to kill me. When we get closer to the actual planning of my death, hopefully DI will reveal my HP (or hopefully he's already stated it to a trusted lord) and we can coordinate my death properly. My only concern is that I'm unsure at what stage in the game we're in. I think we can afford for me to die if we elect a majority of townies during the night, and they lynch well. It's possible I'm wrong, and we may need to get rid of a mafia member before I can be safely killed. Risen, I'm seriously concerned at how quickly you turned on me. I get that you're in full conspiracy mode, but you're my strongest town read right now. I need you to remain focused. Your apology in PM's and your explanation of why cemented you as town. Pretend I don't even exist right now, or use me to reflect your thoughts here, who do you want to lynch? | ||
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