Yeah, honestly 3 cops with unclear sanity is really hard to play as town. They become essentially useless because the possibilities are too varied to count.

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 06:23 GMT

#2589

You have to understand a few things. It was my full intention to claim a cop that would be useless to town. Thus, I could not fuck with any checks and I would just make myself look more townie.

I was in danger of being lynched. In my eyes, JJD and Onegu were town. I knew that if I claimed, I had a shot at making myself look more town and therefore avoid being lynched.

Town loses practically nothing from my claim, it gains everything. I do not regret it one bit.

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 06:29 GMT

#2596

You have to look at my motivations that day as well. I thought Cora was lying for various reasons. Vivax made many good points as well.

I wanted Cora lynched. Obviously, the claim only furthers that goal. Hindsight is 20/20. In order to evaluate my actions fairly, you have to put yourself in my shoes.

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 06:29 GMT

#2597

Onegu and JJD outplayed me. Hats off to them.

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 06:41 GMT

#2612

On July 31 2013 15:32 geript wrote:

Show nested quote +

What you're saying is that you were completely confirmation biased. I didn't care about claiming because I was going to get shot soon regardless and it would allow us to pressure someone who I actually thought was scum. You didn't even want to lynch TAA after his flat out scum claim. There's no amount of confirmation bias that I would've fallen to had TAA come back and responded multiple times in a towny sense. De-tunneling is honestly one of the hardest things to do in the game. But you have to spend time to actively detunnel and take a fresh look at things. Sure, Cora looked scummy; but you looked scummy as hell too. Town can look scummy. It happens.

You were in a completely different situation than me and you are still looking through it in your own little world where you are DT and you got a red check on TAA.

In my world, I don't know if you're lying about the claim.
I don't know if you're sane, insane, random, naive, or paranoid.
I don't know jack shit. I'm basing my read of TAA based on his actions. He said "something something checking me is cheating" but no one post is going to guarantee scum. I had to step back, look at the aggregation of all his posts and decide for myself whether he was worth lynching. Based on his roleclaim, I decided he'd be a solid choice.

You realize that if you were in the game, you would have tunneled me to oblivion and we'd have the same situation? Luckily for you, Cora would've actually been sane cop, but there's no way to know that in your position. In OBS QT after you died, you say that I'm probably scum, remember?

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 06:51 GMT

#2618

There was no way in fuck town deserved to win this game. Aside from the TAA rolecheck by Geript, we basically did nothing right. I'm not going to blame "basterd hosts" for my own mistakes. Had I/we played better, we would have won.

Yes, bluelightz/phagga were a little ambiguous on the role pms. Yes, bluelightz/phagga made a scum favored setup. Yes, bluelightz/phagga made a questionable decision by leading on cDg with his check on himself by giving him his role.

That doesn't invalidate that fact that we, collectively, as town were unable to even lynch someone on Day 1. That is truly disgraceful. We didn't deserve to win and Onegu and JJD should be credited for their play.

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 07:08 GMT

#2620

I'm going to try and remain impartial as I write this, but here are my list of grievances to the hosts so they can, hopefully, improve their hosting. Take it as constructive criticism.

1) Setup was improperly balanced.
You can't give scum 2 power roles, one being a mafia-vig, and not give town some sort of power role with guaranteed scumhunting power. There should have been a DT that at least knew he was sane. That way, we could evaluate the others based on his checks. We need some sort of grounding. We can never be sure that someone's checks are correct, the roles are worthless.

As far as I'm concerned, town had no power roles.

2) Replacements
You can't replace DrH in that kind of situation. It gives scum an unfair advantage. We can't hold DrH accountable for his actions not voting for TanGeng and thus cannot effectively play the game. He should have been modkilled.

3) Giving an alignment cop a role check when he checks himself
You can't lead him on and imply that his check on himself would have value. That's simply unfair. If he's going to check himself, you should at least have the decency to tell him that it'll be worthless. If you can't do that, please, for the love of god, don't give him a role instead of an alignment. It's just common courtesy.

FirmTofu

United States1956 Posts

July 31 2013 07:22 GMT

#2623

On July 31 2013 16:12 phagga wrote:
Finally regarding the game: People relied to much on the blues' abilities. Also, people STILL don't read the posts of dead townies. 5T had DrH as scum N1 and was later suspicious of Onegu, and getmoript had TAA and JJD as scum. Just going back and reading those (who were the strongest town players in this game) could have helped town to pin down the remaining scum.

Also, the way the teams turned out hugely favored town. 5T is a very strong town hydra, so is getmoript. Austin, cora, Oats are all able of strong town play, to mention some. But with inactivity, strange plays and fake claims town also managed to successfully destroy themselves.

Just because they had the some of the right reads doesn't mean they had the right reasons. You can't really blame us for not following dead town's reads. Getmoript also found me scummy. Why should I believe his reads if he doesn't even get me right? Everyone had DrH as scum N1. I don't know why you're singling 5T out.

Of all the town, Austin played the best game by far. His reads may not have been the best but based on what he knew at the time, he was playing well. There were far too many variables in the setup to find scum with a high degree of probability so "reads" don't dictate who played well at all.