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On July 04 2013 23:57 marvellosity wrote:Is it just me desperately trying to work out what information WoS could possibly have been given that he can't disclose? 
I mean, I gave it some thought and then realized that there was nothing that he could have been given aside from things that outright tell him who scum is which obviously doesn't make sense. But I didn't give it too much thought beyond that because WoS is pretty clearly scum.
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On July 04 2013 23:56 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Gumshoe, answer me this:
Why do you think WoS said that he felt absolutely fucked? Assume your survivor, you can hope town will mislynch today but if your not an idiot you need to account for all possible scenarios and you need to account for them right now(at the time of the claim). What if they successfully lynch(they still hold the majority no matter what)? What if scum tonight sees you as a threat because you were forced to vote with town and role blocks/shoots in order to make theyre kps unblockable, just to be sure. Or what if town lynches you tommorow because they cant find scum and they dont trust you. Yes WOS could skate by and win today, but hes just flipping a coin then. Point is he has to make his call at the start of day 2, he cant just withhold his role and pray, he needs to fake claim or true claim BEFORE he knows how things are going to happen. He tried to make a play that would account for all possibilities, potentially scaring off or appeasing scum (the claim of a role block on him would imply survivor is still out they're, or it would tell them thats hes trying to screw over town by breeding chaos) and maybe convincing town hes actually blue. Sadly it did not work, but the attempt is clearly they're. The point is, once WOS admits hes survivor he surrenders control of his own fate, wether or not town lynch him or scum shoot him is out of his hands. WOS played the only move left to him, secure in the knowledge that he could always reclaim survivor and admit that fake names are in the game. He took the risk cause why not, he knows town will be hesitant to shoot survivor, that is if hes the only claim. What he didn't account for was that scum would be forced to steal his role, he should have known the alternative was miller, that was his biggest mistake, but a believable one in comparison to what others, yourself included, in this thread would have town believe. The point is WOS's play is indicative of someone who is a struggling third party forced to play the only card in his hand. Comparatively Fuba implies that his revealing survivor means nothing and is uneventful, he acts pretty much like a leaf in the wind, he also claims that scum would receive fake roles but he wouldn't... which is just stupid. Fuba's play looks like fake survivor in the same way that his play as town looked like fake town. What it all basically comes down to is the realization that third party play must look distinct from scum or town, WOS's does, tell me what about Fuba's posting has changed since he claimed? Nothing, because hes not survivor. Lots of words that pretty much equate to the same thing Oats said. Here's my response:On July 04 2013 23:41 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 23:23 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 04 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Gumshoe, answer me this:
Why do you think WoS said that he felt absolutely fucked? Because if he claims, he CANNOT WIN. Nope, that's not why he said he was fucked. See here: Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Then the subject of name claiming comes up and I realize I am absolutely fucked. Luckily iGrok steps in later on in the day and I receive some role information that is not my own. See it wasn't the fact the he had to claim. It was the fact that he had no role to claim. As evidenced by the fact that he claims that igrok helped rectify his problem. So try again
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On July 05 2013 00:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD, lets say if you claim you die. Town says mass claim d2. Do you feel fucked?
Holy shit read my posts. Yes I feel fucked. BUT THAT'S NOT WHY WOS SAID HE FELT FUCKEDOn July 04 2013 23:41 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 23:23 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 04 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Gumshoe, answer me this:
Why do you think WoS said that he felt absolutely fucked? Because if he claims, he CANNOT WIN. Nope, that's not why he said he was fucked. See here: Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Then the subject of name claiming comes up and I realize I am absolutely fucked. Luckily iGrok steps in later on in the day and I receive some role information that is not my own. See it wasn't the fact the he had to claim. It was the fact that he had no role to claim. As evidenced by the fact that he claims that igrok helped rectify his problem. So try again Look @ what I just quoted and tell me. Do you think WoS had a role to fakeclaim when the subject of mass claiming came up?
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On July 05 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
What?
No I dont.
Which is why he felt fucked.
:>???? This has been my point from the getgo. He totally 180ed on that and started talking about not remembering and missing timestamps.
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Same question for you gumshoe:
Do you think WoS had a role to fakeclaim when the subject of mass claiming came up?
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On July 05 2013 00:25 marvellosity wrote:
JJD, you don't agree with me that it would be a dick move to lie about what the hosts told you you could and couldn't say? Yes. That doesn't mean I don't think it's the only thing that makes sense.
The biggest dick move would be if you were both scum and you were trying to save him by saying that he wouldn't do this because it's a dick move. 
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On July 05 2013 03:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'd also like to note, for future reference, are the people voting against me assuming that fuba is actually the survivor? Have they mentioned this out loud in the thread? This information will become pertinent I believe after the flip. I've mentioned the possibility of dual-scumclaims. I'm not really leaning one way or the other. But what I'm sure of is that you can't possbly be survivor.
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Yeah I think using level of dickishness as a barometer is pretty dumb IMO.
@Marv, If fuba flips and he's not red I don't want to hear bitching about dickishness or calling WoS out about anything. Your vote is all you. You have all the information that Lazer and I posted which pretty much shows how Waves story is complete bullshit. You're choosing to lynch elsewhere despite of it.
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Good lord people. If you believe WoS that he didn't get his fake role untill after the mass claim was brought up then I'm still confirmed town.
Though I'm pretty sure he's still scum.
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On July 05 2013 07:23 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 07:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Good lord people. If you believe WoS that he didn't get his fake role untill after the mass claim was brought up then I'm still confirmed town.
Though I'm pretty sure he's still scum. Can't tell if srs. Which part are you doubting? You don't believe that if I claimed my role at a time that is supposedly before mafia was given their fakeclaims it confirms my townie status?
or did you mean about WoS still being scum?
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On July 05 2013 07:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 07:37 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 05 2013 07:23 marvellosity wrote:On July 05 2013 07:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Good lord people. If you believe WoS that he didn't get his fake role untill after the mass claim was brought up then I'm still confirmed town.
Though I'm pretty sure he's still scum. Can't tell if srs. Which part are you doubting? You don't believe that if I claimed my role at a time that is supposedly before mafia was given their fakeclaims it confirms my townie status? or did you mean about WoS still being scum? I assume mafia were given their fakeclaims during the 'pause', or failing that at the start of the game, both before you claimed? Did WoS claim a specific other time? That was the central cog in my case against him.
On July 04 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Then the subject of name claiming comes up and I realize I am absolutely fucked. Luckily iGrok steps in later on in the day and I receive some role information that is not my own.
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On July 05 2013 08:45 gumshoe wrote:
Also WOS is probably lying to cover his own ass, the dude doesn't want to help us. Above all take away the fake claims, just judge Jar Jar on his own merit. Do not rely on a flip flopping scum teasing survivor.
Sounds like a good plan. So when you took your vote off of me originally, I assume it's because you believed my claim. So why don't you believe it now? Did something change your mind?
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On July 05 2013 08:51 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 08:49 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 05 2013 08:45 gumshoe wrote:
Also WOS is probably lying to cover his own ass, the dude doesn't want to help us. Above all take away the fake claims, just judge Jar Jar on his own merit. Do not rely on a flip flopping scum teasing survivor.
Sounds like a good plan. So when you took your vote off of me originally, I assume it's because you believed my claim. So why don't you believe it now? Did something change your mind? ................I took my vote off you because you claimed before we knew they're were fake claims in the game........................ how do you know there are fake claims in the game now?
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On July 05 2013 09:20 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 08:51 gumshoe wrote:On July 05 2013 08:49 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 05 2013 08:45 gumshoe wrote:
Also WOS is probably lying to cover his own ass, the dude doesn't want to help us. Above all take away the fake claims, just judge Jar Jar on his own merit. Do not rely on a flip flopping scum teasing survivor.
Sounds like a good plan. So when you took your vote off of me originally, I assume it's because you believed my claim. So why don't you believe it now? Did something change your mind? ................I took my vote off you because you claimed before we knew they're were fake claims in the game........................ how do you know there are fake claims in the game now?
On July 05 2013 09:22 marvellosity wrote:
Seems pretty damn likely it's how I described it earlier, given what fuba claimed.
On July 05 2013 09:24 marvellosity wrote:
oh, unless you're going for the argument that WoS is scum and lying about that stuff, right?
my point is this:
I pointed out how based on what WoS is saying about fakeclaims exonerates me. You seemed to think I made fair point and question Gumshoe about it. He responds:On July 05 2013 08:45 gumshoe wrote:
Also WOS is probably lying to cover his own ass, the dude doesn't want to help us. Above all take away the fake claims, just judge Jar Jar on his own merit. Do not rely on a flip flopping scum teasing survivor. I mean, I was already confirmed town which gumshoe seemed to agree with. It was only after WoS posted about fakeclaims that he decided that my claim could be fake.
He can't have it both ways. Either he is gonna pay attention to what WoS said or he isn't. Not just when it benefits his PoV.
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On July 05 2013 11:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD, im nullish to scum. Wrong. You have a town read on me. See here:
On July 05 2013 00:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Do you think WoS had a role to fakeclaim when the subject of mass claiming came up?
On July 05 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
What?
No I dont.
Which is why he felt fucked.
:>????
Unless for some reason you think that I had a fakeclaim while WoS didn't.
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On July 05 2013 12:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 12:39 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 05 2013 11:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD, im nullish to scum. Wrong. You have a town read on me. See here: On July 05 2013 00:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Do you think WoS had a role to fakeclaim when the subject of mass claiming came up?
On July 05 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
What?
No I dont.
Which is why he felt fucked.
:>???? Unless for some reason you think that I had a fakeclaim while WoS didn't. Im currently going with the theory that scum had fakeclaims at the start, survivor maybe, and the pause was not due to anything regarding claims.
And so you think WoS was lying about feeling fucked? If so then why didn't you vote for him. Or did you only start to believe he was lying after the lynch?
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On July 05 2013 12:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 12:45 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 05 2013 12:40 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 05 2013 12:39 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 05 2013 11:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD, im nullish to scum. Wrong. You have a town read on me. See here: On July 05 2013 00:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Do you think WoS had a role to fakeclaim when the subject of mass claiming came up?
On July 05 2013 00:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
What?
No I dont.
Which is why he felt fucked.
:>???? Unless for some reason you think that I had a fakeclaim while WoS didn't. Im currently going with the theory that scum had fakeclaims at the start, survivor maybe, and the pause was not due to anything regarding claims. And so you think WoS was lying about feeling fucked? If so then why didn't you vote for him. Or did you only start to believe he was lying after the lynch? I think that he felt fucked cause claiming a nontown role is bad, and fakeclaiming is also bad. Like really? How many times do I have to post the same thing?
He said he felt fucked because he didn't have a fake role to claim.
Therefore you believe he was lying. But you didn't always believe he was lying because you said as much. I'm just wondering, when did you change your mind?
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On July 05 2013 13:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Also I am sitting here with my jaw on the floor that you actually seem to think scum don't have fakeclaims. I think the opposite. I think scum getting a list of all the roles not in the game would be broke beyond belief.
I think that the threat of a mass claim is balanced by 2 KPs. I mean day 2 mylo and a list of all the roles seem a bit much no?
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Not sure how active I can be the next day or so. But a few things.
The dick move analysis is just something I don't feel should be taken into account in a game like this. I didn't really feel comfortable talking about it. Especially since marv was basicly trying to get me to come right out and say that I thought WoS was being a dick.
And like, sure I said yes when marv asked me. But I don't think it says too much about WoS's personally. I just think it's kind of a cheesy thing to do. But I wouldn't all of a sudden be like "OMG I hate you, how could you do something like this?".
And regarding fakeclaims. Why did everyone believe my claim in the first place? What exactly changed everyones mind?
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I think WoS is scum and I think it's a cheesy tactic and I wouldn't hate him forever.
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EPT
